Flash, HTML 5 comparison finds neither has performance advantage

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  • Reply 121 of 155
    talksense101talksense101 Posts: 1,738member
    IMO, HTML5 is superior with regard to security. Flash is defective by design. As HTML 5 picks up, the rendering engines will improve performance numbers.
  • Reply 122 of 155
    bdblackbdblack Posts: 146member
    Just installed click2flash. Never actually tried this before but DAMN, browsing is noticeably faster on my 3.06 iMac (6MB L2 cache, not the new crappy 3MB version :P )



    This website for example, loads 4 flash banners at the same time. Sometimes it hits 30% on each core just idle. With click2flash its 5 to 10% idle. Not a big deal on a desktop but a huge deal on the mobile phone or laptop. Thats your battery man!



    I can see why the iPad skips flash, but I know if I use my iPhone to go to an HTML5 heavy site... well there are serious slowdowns just like with flash.



    I hopped by the MacHeist website a few weeks back and there was a nice HTML5 animation. Maxed out my iPhones CPU to 100%



    I wasn't near a computer and I was trying to sign up on my iPhone and it could only type 1 character a second because the CPU was overworked from the HTML5.



    Too bad the animation isn' there anymore. Anyone know of any other HTML5 heavy sites we can use to demo this?



    Anyhow... my point is that any excessive animation/add banners will cause performance problems regardless of the format. The only real solution on a mobile platform is throttling, control, and code optimization. Something Steve Jobs can't easily do with the flash plugin because he doesn't have access to the source code.
  • Reply 123 of 155
    tawilsontawilson Posts: 484member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


    The iPhone promised us "Full Internet," and Apple has yet to deliver on that statement.



    Not that old chestnut!



    Regardless of your bias, the iPhone delivered a significantly better experience across more of the internet than any other mobile device before or after it.



    "Full Internet" was just marketing speak for not having to go a "mobile version" of a site which stripped out 90% of the functionality to show you a much crapper looking version of the site on a small screen.



    If you can't see that, then there really is no hope. I mean Microsoft market each new version of Windows as their "most secure ever" and that wasn't really the case for 2000/XP with the number of new holes that were introduced into that "by design".



    Marketing is marketing, end of story. Get over it. It will NEVER be the 100% truth, always a skewed version of it. Let's face it, if they had to be 100% truthful you probably wouldn't buy anything.
  • Reply 124 of 155
    chiachia Posts: 713member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CraigAppleW View Post


    You flash blockers are so superior: Block advertising. Stick it to the man.



    And if your efforts where universalized (like that would ever happen) the revenue model of the web would dissolve, creating a world of shovelware from India and China.



    And you are the evangelists trying to push this?



    You are Satan....fortunately a very ignorant strain.



    How can we be Satan when adverts are there to tempt you to buy products and Satan is the master of temptation?

    One more reason to get a Flash blocker - it'll keep us on the devout, righteous path and lead us not into temptation!





    So by your logic in order to keep the web going I should be forced to watch Flash ads and have my computer slow down to be unusable? The Flash ads aren't the best way to reach me; the advertisers need to use a different approach for me. Before using clicktoflash I rarely looked at those ads anyway and they rarely offered anything of interest to me.





    Next you'll hold open my eyes and pin me to the ground so I'll be forced to look at a billboard on the street.





    Quote:

    Democrats like Jobs are the biggest business hypocrites of all time. Actually democrats are becoming synonymous for hypocrisy



    I'm not from nor in the USA and can't vote there so your political views are irrelevant to me; even if I were a US citizen I wouldn't go to an article comparing the merits of Flash and HTML5 in order to discuss politics.



    Most people judge a company by the products, services and prices which they offer, not by which political party its directors may or may not support.
  • Reply 125 of 155
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Here ya go, pal, knock yourself out:-



    http://www.apple.com/downloads/macos...iphonesdk.html



    Let me know when you develop an App, I might even buy it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


    By the way, speaking of proprietary formats, why doesn't Apple open up the App Store to all who wish to develop for the iPhone?



    ...Yeah, I went there. Apple is the prince of closed systems, second only to Microsoft.



    -Clive



  • Reply 126 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


    Perhaps because



    1) 90% of people use a platform on which Flash performs better

    2) There is much, much more content encoded for Flash than HTML5. If you had to pick better battery life with less access to content, or vice versa, which would it be?



    The iPhone promised us "Full Internet," and Apple has yet to deliver on that statement. Instead they insist upon fighting a war with Adobe - for whose benefit? Certainly not the users...



    -Clive



    Absolutely!

    Another illustration why the process of development / progress should be democratic and not autocratic. There is a reason why people chose Flash. Even in a little known school in India kids know how to make flash animation.
  • Reply 127 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tawilson View Post


    Not that old chestnut!



    Regardless of your bias, the iPhone delivered a significantly better experience across more of the internet than any other mobile device before or after it.



    "Full Internet" was just marketing speak for not having to go a "mobile version" of a site which stripped out 90% of the functionality to show you a much crapper looking version of the site on a small screen.



    If you can't see that, then there really is no hope. I mean Microsoft market each new version of Windows as their "most secure ever" and that wasn't really the case for 2000/XP with the number of new holes that were introduced into that "by design".



    Marketing is marketing, end of story. Get over it. It will NEVER be the 100% truth, always a skewed version of it. Let's face it, if they had to be 100% truthful you probably wouldn't buy anything.



    All he is trying to say is that let the users ( as opposed to Steve Jobs ) choose. I love the smart bookmarks on Firefox / Opera / Chrome . I can't believe that I can't change the browser in iPhone. I am convinced business practices will be why Apple will not be able to reach its potential.
  • Reply 128 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gauravchak View Post


    All he is trying to say is that let the users ( as opposed to Steve Jobs ) choose. I love the smart bookmarks on Firefox / Opera / Chrome . I can't believe that I can't change the browser in iPhone. I am convinced business practices will be why Apple will not be able to reach its potential.



    You can change the browser on the iPhone. Well, not the default browser when you click on html links in other apps, but at least you can install and launch other browsers, and there are dozens now on the app store. Yes, they are all WebKit browsers. But they are there.
  • Reply 129 of 155
    successsuccess Posts: 1,040member
    I'm already redesigning clients' web sites using jQuery instead of Flash.



    Tested on my iPod Touch and everything looks beautiful.
  • Reply 130 of 155
    So this is a comparison between a new open standard, not fully supported or optimized yet by the browsers, versus an old proprietary system that has had years to optimize under the direction and whim of a single company. The results are interesting but the power of a standard is to not be reliant on a single company for optimization and roadmap. HTML5 allows each browser to support, optimize and improve as it deems most appropriate.



    Flash has done some amazing things, credit where credit is due. HTML5's design now has the advantage of following in Flash's footsteps, but as a standard for all to choose how to support on the individual platforms. It's a longterm approach that is not going to be reflected in this type of comparison quite yet.
  • Reply 131 of 155
    hezekiahbhezekiahb Posts: 448member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post


    Probably because I don't use Flash much on my Mac. In fact I have flash turned of (Click2Flash)



    Not everyone thinks that Flash use is a deal breaker.



    90% of the sites I visit the only flash on the page is ads. I highly recommend everyone use the plug-in, it's a real eye opener as to just how useless flash on the web really is & just what a straw man argument it is to say Flash is used by most of the web.



    I guess the good thing in all of this is that I'm never annoyed by website ads.
  • Reply 132 of 155
    mytdavemytdave Posts: 447member
    The issue is not about whether Flash or HTML5 can play back a H.264 encoded video most efficiently... It's about all the other crap (some pretty cool stuff) that Flash does so inefficiently.



    There are times where I observe CPU ramp up in the 90% range just having a web page sitting open that has Flash content doing nothing... no interaction, no video playing, just some of those obnoxious Flash advertising animations in the background.



    An other issue is Flash stability and vulnerability. When I allow Flash to run, it will lock up my browser just about every session. No, it's not just about video playback performance.
  • Reply 133 of 155
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mytdave View Post


    An other issue is Flash stability and vulnerability. When I allow Flash to run, it will lock up my browser just about every session. No, it's not just about video playback performance.



    Get a PC. Problem solved.



    Personally, I can't imagine that surfing would be pleasurable when one needs to fear a crash every time one clicks a link. WTF? Personally, I like it when things just work.
  • Reply 134 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    Get a PC. Problem solved.



    Personally, I can't imagine that surfing would be pleasurable when one needs to fear a crash every time one clicks a link. WTF? Personally, I like it when things just work.



    So with that in mind, can anyone blame Steve and Apple for pissing on Flash for the iPhone?
  • Reply 135 of 155
    pjb00pjb00 Posts: 16member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zapzupnz View Post


    I notice only two posts thus far have really concentrated on the whole story.



    That is to say, that video is not the only place where Flash unnecessarily gobbles up my Mac's processor cores to the point that my fans turn on.



    Hell, whenever there's a Flash applet showing just a static image and a button, the fans go wild.



    Now, for a laptop, that's just bloody irritating. The CPU spikes, the fans spin, and my battery deteriorates.



    So sod the "oh you must have hardware acceleration" argument, please.



    Hardware acceleration isn't going to help Flash show a non-moving image and a freakin' button.



    No, but that's what improvements in utilizing Core Animation and Time address in 10.1 (see: http://www.kaourantin.net/). Feel free to download the 10.1 beta today to give your fans a rest.



    http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/
  • Reply 136 of 155
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,742member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CraigAppleW View Post


    Democrats like Jobs are the biggest business hypocrites of all time. Actually democrats are becoming synonymous for hypocrisy.



    There is a specific PoliticalOutsider forum added expressly so you and your ilk can spew political vitriol to your hearts content, where the rest of us don't have to wade through it.



    However, it doesn't belong here.



    In fact, that topic is specifically banned in any of the other forums beside that one.



    BTW, you agreed to this in the ToS when you signed up. Thanks in advance for complying.
  • Reply 137 of 155
    pjb00pjb00 Posts: 16member
    ... and I'll just add that I think people are being a little disingenuous with the whole "it's not the video, it's the flash ads that are spinning my fans up". Here's my pic, AppleInsider homepage with 5 flash ads running concurrently... 4% CPU usage. Not perfect... but not fan-worthy.







    That said, I'm sure no one at Adobe is loosing sleep over the possibility of HTML5 taking over the banner-ad space. Please, take it.
  • Reply 138 of 155
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,742member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CraigAppleW View Post


    You flash blockers are so superior: Block advertising. Stick it to the man.



    And if your efforts where universalized (like that would ever happen) the revenue model of the web would dissolve, creating a world of shovelware from India and China.



    And you are the evangelists trying to push this?



    You are Satan....fortunately a very ignorant strain.



    I twice had a Windows XP PC get hopelessly infected with spyware, to the point of being unusable. The source both times were Flash-based games on the web that my son liked to play; they surreptitiously exploited Flash/Windows vulnerabilities to get the spyware installed via a regular account with no admin privileges. OBTW, this was the main reason we switched to Macs and never looked back. (That I got WGA'ed the second time I reinstalled Windows and had to call Redmond to get a new key didn't help matters.)



    The fact remains that Adobe Flash and the Adobe PDF reader are inherently insecure and are the primary source for compromising a computer (spyware, botnets, etc.) in 2010. For that reason alone, Flash blockers are worth their weight in gold. The fact that they automatically block the most intrusive and annoying ads on the web (and hidden Flash "cookies") is just a bonus.



    I'm a little unclear how that makes me Satan...



    The only reason more people don't block Flash ads is because they don't know they can. All this buzz created from the pro-Flash camp about "OMG! Flash is Teh Webz!" will only educate more people that they can selectively opt out of most of what Flash has to offer. I've never demoed Flash blocking to anyone who didn't immediately ask how they could get that on their own browser. Maybe you Flash "coders" that seem to be taking this so personally could redirect your mad "programming" skillz toward building something more productive?
  • Reply 139 of 155
    bdblackbdblack Posts: 146member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pjb00 View Post


    ... and I'll just add that I think people are being a little disingenuous with the whole "it's not the video, it's the flash ads that are spinning my fans up". Here's my pic, AppleInsider homepage with 5 flash ads running concurrently... 4% CPU usage. Not perfect... but not fan-worthy.







    That said, I'm sure no one at Adobe is loosing sleep over the possibility of HTML5 taking over the banner-ad space. Please, take it.



    Depends on the add. Some can only use 5%, some can use 55%. Because of the proprietary nature of the plugin you can't control what it does. You can only enable or disable it.
  • Reply 140 of 155
    bdblackbdblack Posts: 146member
    It's easy to figure out why they don't want flash. HTML5 can do everything Flash can do except DRM. If you want to offer secure content on the iPhone you have to use the app store or iTunes.



    Also, with HTML5 the browsers have access to the source so basically they can optimize and control HTML5 playback however they like.
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