NYT: Steve Jobs feels Google betrayed Apple by mimicking iPhone

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  • Reply 121 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


    Because trolls, like politicians, believe that if you repeat a lie long enough it will eventually be accepted as fact. Unfortunately they are correct. Makes me wonder about historians too, ancient and modern.



    very true, applied specially to ww2 events
  • Reply 122 of 344
    kotatsukotatsu Posts: 1,010member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by k2director View Post


    I hope Apple cleans Google's clock on this. Android is a direct copy of the iPhone, with a few tweaks.



    Apple does a truly usable software keyboard, and suddenly Google has one.

    Apple does an app store, and then, oh look, Google introduces one (an utterly crappy one at that).

    Apple does multitouch, and wow, here's Google with multitouch.

    Apple introduces the iPad, and a few days later: tada, here's Google showing off its concept of a tablet.



    Google's only saving grace is that it gives its OS away for free to a bunch of second-tier companies who can't do the heavy lifting themselves. But Google's not bringing anything truly new or revolutionary to the table, and they don't deserve to be recognized as leaders in this particular space...



    Spoken like a true fanboy, sorry.



    Google may not have brought anything revolutionary to the table, but they are providing an open OS with none of the ridiculous walled garden stuff Apple cripple the iPhone with. It's my phone, I decide what goes on it, not Apple or anyone else.



    Why can't I use an alternate web browser on my iPhone? Or a mail app which actually supports GMail properly? Or a podcatcher like Google Listen which downloads any podcast subscription over 3G? Or install flash? Or play play any game I like? (not just the ones which uncle Steve thinks won't offend anyone the far right/conservative/religious/wacko Fox News watching rednecks) Or in fact just do what the heck I want with my own device... And don't get me started on the lack of multi-tasking.



    Android is effectively iPhone without the walls. If you like living in a prison, then keep supporting the iPhone/iPad. If you like Freedom, choose Android. And for what it's worth, the Nexus One is a much nicer piece of hardware than the iPhone. Far, far faster and the screen is light years ahead. If HTC, according to you a 'second tier' manufacturer can beat Apple so completely with the Nexus, what does that say about Apple? Are they now a 'third tier' manufacturer?



    Personally though I'm waiting for WinPhone 7, which looks like taking the advances of Android and pairing it with a modern UI.
  • Reply 123 of 344
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post


    Maybe this is one of the reasons why Apple is defending their patents?



    If I'm not mistaken patent holder are obligated to defend them or risk loosing them... Or is that just with TMs?
  • Reply 124 of 344
    msanttimsantti Posts: 1,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesw View Post


    1) Google pulling out of China



    2) MS + Yahoo alliance



    3) Apple choosing Bing as the default search engine for safari/iphone/ipads







    Google's global market share is going to go down. and together with that, their stock price.





    bye bye Google.



    You think its that easy?
  • Reply 125 of 344
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,264moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    The report also corroborated previous claims that Jobs used an expletive to dismiss Google's "don't be evil" mantra. The comment from the Apple co-founder reportedly earned "thunderous applause" from the company employees present at the meeting.



    Both have ties with the phone companies which are among the most evil of all companies. Right now a telecoms boss has overtaken Bill Gates as the richest man in the world.



    Google at least have a voice app for free calls but they all extort money from customers by charging for calls + texts + data when they can all go over the same line for a single charge and handing out ridiculous contract terms.



    Both have open source commitments: Webkit, Darwin, GSoC, Android.



    In their core businesses, they both like to lock people into their eco-systems.



    The problem I see here is that Google and Apple are a little too much alike and entities that are alike repel because they encroach on each others turf. In the case of Google, it certainly was one way as Apple haven't done search and I wouldn't say iwork impacts much against Google docs or iphoto/picasa but it comes down to what people see happening in future.



    Would the iphone ever be a ubiquitous handset? No. So then it's between Symbian, Windows Phone 7, RIM and iPhone OS. Microsoft are now in search and they're already pushing it on RIM and Symbian devices. Imagine if 900,000 out of 1 billion mobiles every year are using Bing instead of Google. That's a big loss and places Microsoft in charge of the web as well as the desktop.



    What could Google do other than make a reusable mobile OS and phone benchmark to stop this happening? The only other thing they could have done is buy iPhones from Apple and give them away for free or very cheaply and at a loss.



    Perhaps people wouldn't stop using Google just because a handset came bundled to use Bing but people keep using IE despite it being vastly inferior to other browsers so I think they would.



    I don't think Google wants to harm Apple directly, it's just an unfortunate situation. They even disabled multi-touch by choice to begin with. Apple just needs to communicate better with them to understand why they've made those choices. The arguing is not really necessary if the reasons are justified and they can accept they have different goals. Apple wants a closed system with absolute control, Google wants to embrace open source more fully and allow vendors to push their own hardware with software compatibility, all the while being susceptible to the software fragmentation that happens with that setup.



    There's no solution that is right. Apple's solution is limiting and they've shown they can't be trusted with too much control. Google's solution doesn't give the high quality experience Apple's does. You can't really have it both ways because there's simply too few cooks in one and too many in the other.
  • Reply 126 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post


    I guess in the end only time will tell... but its mildly disappointing since I would have liked Apple and Google to continue on with collaborative relationship... Now it seems Apple might actually invite Microsoft to play in their reindeer games and I'm sorry but the only company that makes out in a Microsoft collaboration IS Microsoft. Tell me I'm wrong...



    I don't think that reindeer games quite captures it!



    I worked for IBM in the 1960-1970 era when they had 97% of the computer market...



    A popular saying described the relationship between other companies and IBM:



    "When you make love to an 800 lb. Gorilla-- you don't stop when you get tired, you stop when the gorilla gets tired."



    *
  • Reply 127 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post


    Spoken like a true fanboy, sorry.



    Google may not have brought anything revolutionary to the table, but they are providing an open OS with none of the ridiculous walled garden stuff Apple cripple the iPhone with. It's my phone, I decide what goes on it, not Apple or anyone else.



    Why can't I use an alternate web browser on my iPhone? Or a mail app which actually supports GMail properly? Or a podcatcher like Google Listen which downloads any podcast subscription over 3G? Or install flash? Or play play any game I like? (not just the ones which uncle Steve thinks won't offend anyone the far right/conservative/religious/wacko Fox News watching rednecks) Or in fact just do what the heck I want with my own device... And don't get me started on the lack of multi-tasking.



    Android is effectively iPhone without the walls. If you like living in a prison, then keep supporting the iPhone/iPad. If you like Freedom, choose Android. And for what it's worth, the Nexus One is a much nicer piece of hardware than the iPhone. Far, far faster and the screen is light years ahead. If HTC, according to you a 'second tier' manufacturer can beat Apple so completely with the Nexus, what does that say about Apple? Are they now a 'third tier' manufacturer?



    Personally though I'm waiting for WinPhone 7, which looks like taking the advances of Android and pairing it with a modern UI.



    Spoken like a true hateboy, sorry.



    Have fun with your LosePhone (if/when it comes out). Good luck.
  • Reply 128 of 344
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Both have ties with the phone companies which are among the most evil of all companies (1). Right now a telecoms boss has overtaken Bill Gates as the richest man in the world.



    Google at least have a voice app for free calls but they all extort money from customers by charging for calls + texts + data when they can all go over the same line(2) for a single charge and handing out ridiculous contract terms.



    Both have open source commitments: Webkit, Darwin, GSoC, Android.



    In their core businesses, they both like to lock people into their eco-systems.



    The problem I see here is that Google and Apple are a little too much alike and entities that are alike repel because they encroach on each others turf. In the case of Google, it certainly was one way as Apple haven't done search and I wouldn't say iwork impacts much against Google docs or iphoto/picasa but it comes down to what people see happening in future.



    Would the iphone ever be a ubiquitous handset? No. So then it's between Symbian, Windows Phone 7, RIM and iPhone OS. Microsoft are now in search and they're already pushing it on RIM and Symbian devices. Imagine if 900,000 out of 1 billion mobiles every year are using Bing instead of Google. That's a big loss and places Microsoft in charge of the web as well as the desktop.



    What could Google do other than make a reusable mobile OS and phone benchmark to stop this happening? The only other thing they could have done is buy iPhones from Apple and give them away for free or very cheaply and at a loss.



    Perhaps people wouldn't stop using Google just because a handset came bundled to use Bing but people keep using IE despite it being vastly inferior to other browsers so I think they would.



    I don't think Google wants to harm Apple directly, it's just an unfortunate situation. They even disabled multi-touch by choice to begin with. Apple just needs to communicate better with them to understand why they've made those choices.(3) The arguing is not really necessary if the reasons are justified and they can accept they have different goals. Apple wants a closed system with absolute control(4), Google wants to embrace open source more fully and allow vendors to push their own hardware with software compatibility, all the while being susceptible to the software fragmentation that happens with that setup.



    There's no solution that is right. Apple's solution is limiting(5) and they've shown they can't be trusted with too much control(6). Google's solution doesn't give the high quality experience Apple's does. You can't really have it both ways because there's simply too few cooks in one and too many in the other.



    You make the world sound worse than all the wars put together. The worse part, you call yourself a Global Moderator, which may imply to some that you are an authority in your commentating.



    IMO, much of what you claimed is incorrect and you can't substantiate any of them.



    I personally like #2. I gather from your comment that I should be able to drive on the New York Thruway and my toll fare for a car, motorhome or bus should be the same and include any gas, emergency repairs or food. Afterall, they all travel on the same pavement, don't they. Yes, my response is just as stupid as yours.



    It is a good thing that blogging supersedes yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre. Otherwise, the Truth may be told.
  • Reply 129 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Woohoo! View Post


    I suspect it's going to be Apple's processing "cloud" so all one has to do is carry around a nearly dumb lightweight terminal like a iPad Pro.



    The NC data center is centrally located in the most populous region of the US instead of being located a bit more north where the summers are cooler, suggests some things over others.



    I suspect Apple will also build a data center on the west coast too with the land they got.



    The NUMMI (Toyota/General Motors) plant in Fremont, California will be available in April.



    Though, I think Apple could get better deals in Southern Nevada, Utah or Texas.



    *
  • Reply 130 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    Apple needs to keep Jobs as a point man for technology and design, but get him the hell out of the CEO position and get someone in there who wont start wars that cant be won, first with MS in the 80s and now with Google.



    His design skill is amazing, but to fumble this acquisition, and to fumble the Google alliance in the first place would get any other CEO fired. Not to mention the fact that the iphone has been pretty much stagnate since 2.0, that is 2 yeqars of no real innovation, just catching up with 5 year old Blackberry voice dialing tech. Between Windows Phone 7, the new builds of android and blackberrys webkit based browsers coming soon, Apple and the iPhone will soon be religated to a small minority cult like Apple Mac was in the 90s.



    i have a nexus one. half assed programs do not one up the iphone. android is just like a linux distro except the nexus one ain't cheaply priced. that is, it has copy cat programs but is never really up there with os x or even windows 7.

    i don't agree with everything apple does but i never understood why apple went with 'mobileme' and a pay model for cloud. stupid.

    steve needs to put the same focus he has on hardware into apples cloud and compete with google.
  • Reply 131 of 344
    kotatsukotatsu Posts: 1,010member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Spoken like a true hateboy, sorry.



    Have fun with your LosePhone (if/when it comes out). Good luck.



    Was that really the best retort you could come up with? No reasoned argument, no bullet points, no facts and figures... not even an amusing anecdote!



    Really poor effort.



    When you have a valid argument why Android isn't a better OS than the iPhone OS, please check back.
  • Reply 132 of 344
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    When Eric was first on Apple's Board, Android and Chrome were not issues [that Google was talking about anyway]. Google was merely pushing it's search empire. From Apple's perspective, the relationship was beneficial to Apple and Google because both companies had a common enemy in Microsoft. Apple would help Google expand search on mobile hardware, and Google would help Apple cement it's dominant position in the phone hardware sales.



    Apple seemingly carried out it's role. Google seems to have gotten a little Apple envious and used it's insider role against Apple. If Google had interest in hardware predating the iPhone, it should have never allowed Eric on Apple's board. The conflict is obvious.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post


    One of the things that I couldn't understand was why Apple and Google each shared BOD members. Seems like Google had more to gain than Apple. Apple has said that they aren't in the not in the search engine business.



  • Reply 133 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post


    Was that really the best retort you could come up with? No reasoned argument, no bullet points, no facts and figures... not even an amusing anecdote!



    Really poor effort.



    When you have a valid argument why Android isn't a better OS than the iPhone OS, please check back.



    touch type is not as good as iphones.

    battery life isn't better than iphone.

    it doesn't support exchange calender syncing.

    messaging fails about every 5th time i try to text.

    the native facebook app fails every 3rd time.

    the nexus one is difficult to hold and type (to slippery and narrow)

    the autorotate for the screen is crap. it will just get stuck one way and you have to turn it completely opposite to get it back (if it goes back at all).

    the voice to text features are a bit laughable. it gets close to what you say about 1 in 4 or else it fails completely and give an error.

    the nexus one has 512meg with a wopping 4gig microsd card.

    apps can only work in the 512 area.

    thats all i got right now.
  • Reply 134 of 344
    tomozjtomozj Posts: 54member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post


    i have a nexus one. half assed programs do not one up the iphone. android is just like a linux distro except the nexus one ain't cheaply priced. that is, it has copy cat programs but is never really up there with os x or even windows 7.

    i don't agree with everything apple does but i never understood why apple went with 'mobileme' and a pay model for cloud. stupid.

    steve needs to put the same focus he has on hardware into apples cloud and compete with google.



    I agree with your final point, would love to ditch my Google Account in favour of MobileMe for tighter integration with my iPhone/Mac (bookmark, contact, photo syncing etc.).



    It should just be a benefit of owning an Apple product - free like Mac OSX is free when you buy a new Mac.
  • Reply 135 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TroubleStarter View Post


    Google, on the other hand, wants smartphones to have open, nonproprietary platforms so users can freely roam the Web for apps that work on many devices."



    this is the same bs propaganda that has been used against apple for years and google just jumping on that. open standards are about creating open data and networking standards so technology can cooperate, not to force vendors to give their IP away or demand that everything is free. these standards are created by vendor neutral standards bodies like IETF, IEEE, ISO, MPEG, W3C, ANSI. the iPhone when released was one of the most standards compliant devices of its kind. it supported standards based email (imap, pop), standards based internet (html, css, and no flash is not a standard), standards based data (MPEG-1 audio level 1, MPEG-4 AAC/AVC, etc).



    google is merely trying to commoditize anything "outside of search" and they are using the "for the good of the people" bs to do it. if google were really wanted everything that way, they would...



    "open up their search technology and adware technology to create a non-propreitary search platform where users, vendors and information can freely find each from a variety devices"...i see no evil in that.



    at best, they are a bunch of hyprocratic smart engineers with great technology and poor leadership (like sun). at worst, they are ruthless corporation stealing from their partners (like ms).
  • Reply 136 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post


    When you have a valid argument why Android isn't a better OS than the iPhone OS, please check back.



    Does it occur to you that I could care less if Android was better/worse/the same? Unlike you, I would not waste my time venting in Android forums, since the product is irrelevant to me.



    Unlike some folks who seem to have nothing better to do with their time than hang out in places to bitch about products they supposedly think are inferior or useless, I actually have a life. (I've got a recommendation for you where you can find lots of validation and positive strokes: Just go to engadget.com and click on any Apple-related story to vent; you'll see that it's kotatsu-nirvana. Be happy).
  • Reply 137 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Both [Apple & Google] have ties with the phone companies which are among the most evil of all companies.



    No argument there whatsoever. If one really wants to get into a true "racket," then launching a telecom business seems to be the Yellow Brick Road. I think that you could almost equate them with the banks.



    Ditto for the rest of your post -- too few/many cooks is right!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I don't think that reindeer games quite captures it!



    I worked for IBM in the 1960-1970 era when they had 97% of the computer market...



    A popular saying described the relationship between other companies and IBM:



    "When you make love to an 800 lb. Gorilla-- you don't stop when you get tired, you stop when the gorilla gets tired."



    *







    How appropriate!
  • Reply 138 of 344
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by elroth View Post


    There's a big history there, at least of Microsoft screwing Apple. One instance is QuickTime. When it was first developed, it was far ahead of any other computer media player. Apple sent Microsoft the code to QuickTime so that the Microsoft OS could interact with it, under strict conditions. Gates then took the code (stole it), copied it into Windows Media Player, and did everything he could to kill QuickTime, including threatening to bankrupt Apple if Apple continued to develop QuickTime for Windows.



    Not so much. First of all, Steve Jobs wasn't even involved in Apple when all of the disputes over QuickTime occurred, so the argument that he and Gates have a bitter history is, at best, an exaggeration. Second, it was Jobs himself who engineered the 1997 deal that settled the patent disputes which he'd inherited when he returned to Apple.
  • Reply 139 of 344
    iluviluv Posts: 123member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Well, if Apple really wants to take a bite out of Google's lunch, they should start to buy up every specialized search engine out there and ally with Bing. They have the money, but I don't think they really want to encroach on Google's turf to really bring the fight to the forefront.



    Apple should go into the search engine business and kill Google dead!
  • Reply 140 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLuv View Post


    Apple should go into the search engine business and kill Google dead!



    yes they should get into the search business, but fire whoever came up with the name 'mobileme'. and MS should fire whoever came up with 'bing'. god i hate those names lol.
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