Publishers criticize Apple's anti-Flash stance

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  • Reply 61 of 158
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    Nothing telling at all.



    Sounds like you were playing way too many Flash games.



    This guy is hilarious. It's not Flash's fault, it's too much Flash gaming is the issue.



    You used it in a store and you come to the conclusion it runs "just fine". Quit digging your own hole.
  • Reply 62 of 158
    Anyone who wants to see the future of browser experiences via HTML5 and SVG should look at the latest IE9 platform preview presented at MIX10. I might get some boos from this, but wildly enough, Microsoft is actually leap frogging all the other browsers with IE9 in regards to performance. Yes, I know, it's hard to believe such an ass backwords company could get the drop on the other browser vendors who have the lead in standards compatibility by a WIDE margin, but if you're interested in seeing what the NEXT gen browser experience will be for ALL browsers (because believe me, they'll all be trying to jump on board this train), the keynote speech is here and offers a great look forward at what tech is about to be launched in the near future:



    http://live.visitmix.com/MIX10/Sessions/KEY02
  • Reply 63 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Code "in it" you mean.



    Oops. \
  • Reply 64 of 158
    champchamp Posts: 39member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    This guy is hilarious. It's not Flash's fault, it's too much Flash gaming is the issue.



    You used it in a store and you come to the conclusion it runs "just fine". Quit digging your own hole.



    I think he has a mental illness. I thought institutions frowned on patients using there computers.\
  • Reply 65 of 158
    gotapplegotapple Posts: 115member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    You're seriously out of your depth.



    I make flash games (third year now), and I have to say that Flash Player works just fine on OSX, on my 2.0GHz Core2Duo Macbook. It could be faster if Apple enabled those hooks the Flash Player needs for hardware acceleration... Steve must be furious, because he didn't invent Flash.



    If they were to allow flash apps to run on iPhone OS, well, kiss goodbye to all those paid apps from the App Store as people would just play free flash games...
  • Reply 66 of 158
    bedouinbedouin Posts: 331member
    The real reason publishers don't want to give up Flash is because its a generally fool proof, highly intrusive method of ad syndication.



    Most people aren't using Click2Flash or FlashBlock -- yet.



    You have no idea how much more enjoyable web browsing is for me with Click2Flash. You don't realize how much Flash debilitates your computer until you dump it.
  • Reply 67 of 158
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    It not because of FLASH, it's because of OSX.

    FLASH runs just fine on any low-end PC even Netbooks.



    it works fine on a Windows based machine because the software was made and optimized for Windows and then they did a basic port to make it work with OSX (Adobe has admitted this). That they didn't do a ground up version is why it hogs CPU and crashes in OSX and is what has Jobs pissed off about their laziness.



    That said, Flash on an ipad doesn't work because as even Flash developers have admitted, it's a mouse based tech.



    and regarding those publishers, if they don't want to make the switch, no one is forcing them to. So long as they are okay with no having the same or perhaps any experience on an ipad/iphone/touch. It's their call. but I have to wonder just how much Flash some of them are really using. Probably not as much as they want you to think.
  • Reply 68 of 158
    allblueallblue Posts: 393member
    We desperately need an Ignore+ option here, one that filters out all the quotes by the time-wasters already on the Ignore list.
  • Reply 69 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by g3pro View Post


    A huge chunk of the internet is built on Flash. It is a feature in some circumstances. It is a shame to see Apple taking yet another feature out because of its refusal to upgrade OS X underpinnings especially when even underpowered windows machines can run flash perfectly.



    It's not OS X that's at fault, its a browser plugin that is actually a port of a Windows app (seriously you can't tell me that the plugin interface is a Mac OS X or even Mac OS 9 interface) that doesn't seem to use any aspect of Mac OS X instead Adobe favours doing it's own code instead of proven reliable code that every shareware and freeware developer seems to be able to use well.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


    If HTML5 really is an alternative why is the iPhone running on Objective C and not just pure HTML5 all the way through.



    That really makes no sense at all? Why is native apps running in Objective-C as opposed to HTML5? Why are Windows apps running in C or Assembler instead of Visual Basic?



    Every language has its place, it's just that Flash's place is rapidly being eroded by other smarter technologies.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post


    HTML5 can't and wont do everything that flash does.



    Such as? Flash supporters keep spouting this without actually giving valid examples.



    The specs for HTML5 also include CSS3 (capable of doing fantastic layouts that are often being done with Flash for no reason at all), SVG (ironically an Adobe format that was a direct competitor to Flash until Adobe bought Macromedia) which is vector imaging, and Javascript which Flash's ActionScript is based on.



    The only thing I can see that can't be done yet or if ever is accessing a webcam for conferencing or something like that. Reality is how many people use that feature of Flash anyway as most people use a proper chat application like iChat or Skype or Messenger or whatever. Apparently the WHATWG (consortium that controls the development of HTML5 which Apple, Microsoft, Google, and ironically Adobe are all part of) are looking at implementing something like this so it may be possible to do in the future.



    There are many examples of what can be done without Flash like MobileMe and iWork.com, YouTube beta, Sublime Video Player, and pretty much anything using JQuery or Protocol. I really really want to know what MUST be done using Flash.
  • Reply 70 of 158
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gotApple View Post


    I make flash games (third year now), and I have to say that Flash Player works just fine on OSX.



    If you make Flash games you do have to say it, certainly.
  • Reply 71 of 158
    allblueallblue Posts: 393member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gotApple View Post




    If they were to allow flash apps to run on iPhone OS, well, kiss goodbye to all those paid apps from the App Store...



    And say hello to...



    Quote:

    In your opinion, which is the safer combination OS+browser to use?



    "That’s a good question. Chrome or IE8 on Windows 7 with no Flash installed. There probably isn’t enough difference between the browsers to get worked up about. The main thing is not to install Flash!"




    Charlie Miller 1st March 2010



    interview-with-charlie-miller-pwn2own
  • Reply 72 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    Memo to Steve Jobs- Adobe is just not that into you.



    ... which is why Apple is not supporting Flash on their mobile devices and iPad.
  • Reply 73 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gotApple View Post


    I make flash games (third year now), and I have to say that Flash Player works just fine on OSX, on my 2.0GHz Core2Duo Macbook. It could be faster if Apple enabled those hooks the Flash Player needs for hardware acceleration... Steve must be furious, because he didn't invent Flash.



    If they were to allow flash apps to run on iPhone OS, well, kiss goodbye to all those paid apps from the App Store as people would just play free flash games...



    You running Snow Leopard because if you were you wouldn't be saying that.



    I love having my machine work it's butt off for simple Flash games.



    It may change when 10.1 comes out but I understand it's been in development for almost a year now. Hell, give us a public beta to judge for ourselves Adobe.
  • Reply 74 of 158
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    It's easy to call someone lazy when they're not interested in improving something that only applies to 10% of the worldwide market.

    Memo to Steve Jobs- Adobe is just not that into you.



    This is not an erroneous statement. Nor is the fact that Jobs isn't required to play with them either. And won't.



    As for your earlier ??? comment to other posters, a key question is what should have been there. In many cases, it was an annoying dancing ad that takes over the screen forcing you to click it away. And in those cases, good riddance.
  • Reply 75 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    It's easy to call someone lazy when they're not interested in improving something that only applies to 10% of the worldwide market.

    Memo to Steve Jobs- Adobe is just not that into you.



    Except it's not just 10% of the market is it? We're also talking about a massive section of the smart phone market which doesn't have all the access to the Flash content out there because even the phones with the Flash plugin - Flash Lite - can't access the new stuff because the Flash Lite plugin is based on an old version of Flash.
  • Reply 76 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gotApple View Post


    I make flash games (third year now), and I have to say that Flash Player works just fine on OSX, on my 2.0GHz Core2Duo Macbook. It could be faster if Apple enabled those hooks the Flash Player needs for hardware acceleration... Steve must be furious, because he didn't invent Flash.



    Sounds like it produces mixed results.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gotApple View Post


    Steve must be furious, because he didn't invent Flash.



    LOL. Right. That's totally it. If you listen to yourself, you sound like exactly what's WRONG with the Internet. When IE had all but won the browser war, you heard developers complaining when they had to support any other browser. Active X or nothing, was the way of things. "You must use Internet Explorer" was an oft used error. Wouldn't it be MUCH better, if an error could really say, "Your browser does not support this feature. Please upgrade."? The web browser is for browsing the Internet. Plugins and extensions should add features... but they shouldn't be REQUIRED to browse generic content. Developers the world over NEED a kick in the pants. Standards shouldn't be retarded by complacency. --And really? Resting on Flash is MOSTLY an issue of complacency and the DEATH of innovation... with Adobe as the gatekeeper. Flash is a box on the screen that inconsistently talks to the rest of the web page. That's simply not good enough for the future. And the future starts now. And now. Actually it starts now.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gotApple View Post


    If they were to allow flash apps to run on iPhone OS, well, kiss goodbye to all those paid apps from the App Store as people would just play free flash games...



    So. If I have this right... it sounds like you're saying that Google's Android marketplace will be even MORE useless for casual game developers when it officially gets Flash Player support. Interesting. Kind of disturbing all things considered.



    ~ CB
  • Reply 77 of 158
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,784member
    Apple should have had motion enabled, hyperlinking design software ready to go with iPad
  • Reply 78 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    It's easy to call someone lazy when they're not interested in improving something that only applies to 10% of the worldwide market.

    Memo to Steve Jobs- Adobe is just not that into you.



    When you have 10% of the worldwide market in something, Steve Jobs might actually read your memos. Until then...
  • Reply 79 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gotApple View Post




    If they were to allow flash apps to run on iPhone OS, well, kiss goodbye to all those paid apps from the App Store as people would just play free flash games...



    I hear this nonsense all the time. Why wouldn't they play 'free' HTML5 (or whatever else) games instead?
  • Reply 80 of 158
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lowededwookie View Post


    They're just jealous because in reality they're all talentless hacks.



    What they want to do according to this article CAN be done in HTML5 and Javascript.



    They've also become lazy relying on nasty graphical tools to do things quick and easily instead of properly.



    Graphical editors have their uses but code allows more control. HTML and Javascript also allows for more code reuse than Flash seems to allow so I tend to agree that it would be trivial to ditch Flash in favour of something that doesn't kill your system playing an ad.



    Considering ActionScript is based on ECMA Script which is the underlying structure for Javascript it shouldn't take a real developer long to move over at all.



    I guess the people in this article haven't seen what Protocol and JQuery can do, neither have they seen what Sproutcore or Cappuccino can do either.



    I wouldn't be too surprised if Apple releases the next version of iWeb with HTML5 instead of XHTML like it currently does.



    GUI is for wimps.
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