Publishers criticize Apple's anti-Flash stance

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  • Reply 81 of 158
    spotonspoton Posts: 645member
    Late to this party but take a look at history.



    Computers and processors used to get faster and faster.



    But they hit a thermal wall, it's not practical to lug along a 500lb cooling system and battery for a laptop.



    Software and plug ins got more complicated with features and everyone got used to that.



    But now a whole line of new products appear with less capable processors and integrated graphics.





    So now all those plug ins like Flash are overweight for the hardware, is it Adobe's fault?



    According to what I read on Slashdot, Flash really doesn't take too much more CPU than HTML5 or Javascript. It's was designed to be easier for designers to be creative and not technical.



    It's the hardware that has been purposely crippled, Flash is a victim.



    Apple keeps changing it's OS so darn much, it's hard for any developer to keep up and make a profit.



    The CPU's crank on Mac's because Apple doesn't allow GPU hardware acceleration.



    Does Apple really think publishers are going to give up the ease of use and creativity of Flash and hire a bunch of costly HTML5/JavaScript coders just to meet the needs of a underpowered iPad hardware?



    It's not looking too good for the iPad.
  • Reply 82 of 158
    champchamp Posts: 39member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    It's "their" not "there".



    excuse me. I still think you are mentally challenged
  • Reply 83 of 158
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post


    Apple keeps changing it's OS so darn much, it's hard for any developer to keep up and make a profit.



    That must be why Apple's products are not doing so well.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post


    It's not looking too good for the iPad.



    Spot on. Just about every major analysis/forecast out there, not to mention what the stock market thinks, must be total bunk.



    /sarcasm
  • Reply 84 of 158
    cimcim Posts: 197member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post


    Late to this party but take a look at history.



    Computers and processors used to get faster and faster.



    But they hit a thermal wall, it's not practical to lug along a 500lb cooling system and battery for a laptop.



    Software and plug ins got more complicated with features and everyone got used to that.



    But now a whole line of new products appear with less capable processors and integrated graphics.





    So now all those plug ins like Flash are overweight for the hardware, is it Adobe's fault?



    According to what I read on Slashdot, Flash really doesn't take too much more CPU than HTML5 or Javascript. It's was designed to be easier for designers to be creative and not technical.



    It's the hardware that has been purposely crippled, Flash is a victim.



    Apple keeps changing it's OS so darn much, it's hard for any developer to keep up and make a profit.



    The CPU's crank on Mac's because Apple doesn't allow GPU hardware acceleration.



    Does Apple really think publishers are going to give up the ease of use and creativity of Flash and hire a bunch of costly HTML5/JavaScript coders just to meet the needs of a underpowered iPad hardware?



    It's not looking too good for the iPad.



    They don?t have to. CS5 will have support for HTML5.
  • Reply 85 of 158
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by swinge View Post


    Can't beieve I didn't think of this before... for those who worked in video...for decades, the industry was dominated by Adobe Premiere on the low end, Avid on the high end. Apple clearly didn't like either product, so they released their own, Final Cut Pro... As everyone knows it competely changed the industry.



    Hate to bust your bubble but the same guy wrote both Premiere and Final Cut And iMovie HD. Look it up... Randy Ubillos.



    Apple bought FCP from Macromedia along with the development team prior to MM releasing the product. Premiere sold well on Windows after FCP was introduced.



    Also on the other subject: I keep posting the same thing but nobody seems to believe me. I can run Flash on a stock iPhone. Only swf version 1 and 2 but still does a pretty good job. If you Google 'Gordon Flash JS library' you can easily get Flash running on iPhones... AND it can't be blocked by ClicktoFlash either.
  • Reply 86 of 158
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,072member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post


    The CPU's crank on Mac's because Apple doesn't allow GPU hardware acceleration.



    Does Apple really think publishers are going to give up the ease of use and creativity of Flash and hire a bunch of costly HTML5/JavaScript coders just to meet the needs of a underpowered iPad hardware?



    It's not looking too good for the iPad.



    Actually, Silverlight runs on the same OS and hardware without causing any of these problems and you do not really need hardware acceleration to run HD video on a Core 2 Duo or better CPU (unless you make things needlessly difficult by adding the Flash crap to the mix). And yes, I do know, because I regularly rent HD videos from a provider that uses Silverlight. No stutter, no high CPU loads and no permanent fan activity at all. The Flash player on OS X and Linux is simply a case of lousy programming. Check Adobe's own forums, even Adobe's own support staff is suggesting to install Flash-blockers, see: http://www.bynkii.com/archives/2009/..._it_wrong.html.



    Even publishers would not call Flash "creative", maybe the people using it. They will use what people pay for. As Apple customers account for a high percentage of those willing to pay for content, I would say: it's not looking too good for Flash.
  • Reply 87 of 158
    irelandireland Posts: 17,799member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post


    Late to this party but take a look at history.



    It's not looking too good for the iPad.



    Yeah cause that iPhone never really took off
  • Reply 88 of 158
    irelandireland Posts: 17,799member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    No hole and hilarious the way you omit my...



    Omit your what?
  • Reply 89 of 158
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Admittidly I just skimmed this article... but from the first few paragraphs tell me...



    Is this an article just a bunch of FLASH DEVELOPERS complaining that moving to HTML5 would be a big mistake?!?



    Hopefully it had more substance from ... I dunno less biassed people...





    "NEWS FLASH ... THIS JUST IN ... PRESIDENT OF PHILIP MORRIS SAYS SMOKING IS NOT DANGEROUS SO LITE EM IF YOU GOT EM! ... FILM AT 11!"

  • Reply 90 of 158
    I work for a publisher. We don't care about ditching flash. Further off the record - when I was asked for flash specs for future-ad use, I told them "don't use flash".



    Blow me Adobe astroturfers.



    (And yes - we're going gaga for the iPad. One or one million, more eyeballs is good for content businesses)
  • Reply 91 of 158
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Thanks Adobe for being the Large Media Outlet and Anonymous Mid-size outlet.



    Seriously, if you don't have the courage to cite your organization you either don't have the authority to do so or your organization is scared to come forth and doesn't want the bad press after their rivals are all on the iPad.
  • Reply 92 of 158
    swingeswinge Posts: 110member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Hate to bust your bubble but the same guy wrote both Premiere and Final Cut And iMovie HD. Look it up... Randy Ubillos.



    Apple bought FCP from Macromedia along with the development team prior to MM releasing the product. Premiere sold well on Windows after FCP was introduced.



    Also on the other subject: I keep posting the same thing but nobody seems to believe me. I can run Flash on a stock iPhone. Only swf version 1 and 2 but still does a pretty good job. If you Google 'Gordon Flash JS library' you can easily get Flash running on iPhones... AND it can't be blocked by ClicktoFlash either.



    That's very cool, I didn't know that....glad Apple was able to save FCP before Adobe coud ruin it... My point is the same though, I just want a better solution....the thing you posted was posted earlier... THe thing is it's NOT Flash right? This guy recreated Flash SWFs using just Javascript and SVG? So that's Javascript and SVG running on your iPhone, not Flash? Sorry if I'm missing something here...
  • Reply 93 of 158
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by swinge View Post


    THe thing is it's NOT Flash right? This guy recreated Flash SWFs using just Javascript and SVG? So that's Javascript running on your iPhone, not Flash? Sorry if I'm missing something here...



    Nope 100% pure Flash. Open up Flash Pro make a Flash ad export it as foobar.swf version 1 or 2 and upload it to your web server that has gordon.js running on it. Modify one line of JS code in your html file and voila. Runs on IPhone. Done.



    Sample
  • Reply 94 of 158
    justflybobjustflybob Posts: 1,337member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    I think he was actually agreeing with me! (Or so I'd like to naively believe).



    I agree. Whoever they are, they are new here, and sometimes seem a tad young. But heh, anyone's better than TekDud.
  • Reply 95 of 158
    swingeswinge Posts: 110member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Nope 100% pure Flash. Open up Flash Pro make a Flash ad export it as foobar.swf version 1 or 2 and upload it to your web server that has gordon.js running on it. Modify one line of JS code in your html file and voila. Runs on IPhone. Done.



    Wow!! Very cool!!!!!



    Too bad it's just version 1, 2 though (ActionScript doesn't come in until like Flash 3 or 4 right? and does version 2 only support super low FPS?) It's a great work around though and maybe the best solution for the moment....hopefully companies like the WSJ and NYT get hip to this.... Thanks for the link!
  • Reply 96 of 158
    dayrobotdayrobot Posts: 133member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by coffeetime View Post


    What about the argument that even if Flash were allowed on the iPad (and iPhone / iPod touch), that it might in many cases offer a "not what the designer intended" experience since there are no mouse-overs to trigger actions like there are with a typical computer and mouse cursor?



    Good guess, but not really. Flash has an event model built around button states. Up, down, click, etc. A mouseover happens right before a click anyway.



    The real problem is as many have said, battery life!







    Dan
  • Reply 97 of 158
    Um. Safari crashed 3 times today when I was using Google Maps with street view flash enabled.



    I was planning a route that I had not driven for years and used the pictures to remind me of where I was going.



    Safari didn't like it one bit and crashed every time. Re-enabled ClickToFlash and gave up using that part of Google Maps
  • Reply 98 of 158
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    I'd love to see Apple release some dev tools for designers who really, really, really want to create HTML5 compliant design work. It would be nice and clean, no doubt.
  • Reply 99 of 158
    str1f3str1f3 Posts: 573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    I'd love to see Apple release some dev tools for designers who really, really, really want to create HTML5 compliant design work. It would be nice and clean, no doubt.



    It doesn't have to be Apple. Whoever creates these tools, even Adobe, can make a ton of cash. The only reason why Adobe doesn't already do it is because they control the market for Flash.



    As for this article, it's fne to me that some of these devs complain. Chances are i wasn't using your site if it was so dependant on Flash. Make new jobs and hire some proper coders. I'll do just fine without you when I get my iPad.
  • Reply 100 of 158
    doroteadorotea Posts: 323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TECHSTUD View Post


    And who said those Apple execs weren't smart to sell stock NOW?

    Seriously, it behooves Steve Jobs and Apple to stop the BS and embrace Flash now.



    Embrace it and let it die.... ClickToFlash rules
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