Ah that explains it, Apple are assholes, no more to be said.\ Of all the zillions of words on this subject over the last few weeks, very few mention security. As Flash advocates never tire of telling us it is all over the web, and as celebrity hacker du jour Charlie Miller told us recently, the best way of avoiding having your device compromised is by not installing Flash. All those Flash-free iPhones and soon iPads can at least know that there is one major attack vector they are automatically immune from.
But I thought Apple's operating systems were immune to viruses? I mean, they sure do attack Microsoft enough for it, don't they? Oh right, all viruses and security threats come from Flash... But Flash is on OSX?
Honestly, by your logic, if security truly was the reason, then Flash would not work on OSX (especially considering usually no AV software installed.)
Calling Apple assholes as the reason is a very general statement, but isn't it funny how it so correctly sums up everything?
But I thought Apple's operating systems were immune to viruses? I mean, they sure do attack Microsoft enough for it, don't they? Oh right, all viruses and security threats come from Flash... But Flash is on OSX?
Honestly, by your logic, if security truly was the reason, then Flash would not work on OSX (especially considering usually no AV software installed.)
Calling Apple assholes as the reason is a very general statement, but isn't it funny how it so correctly sums up everything?
Apple asshole right here! You know nothing. Charlie Miller, the man who has hacked Safari for 3 years to win the prize said to not install Flash.
If you knew anything, you'd know that most of the exploits for the past year have been coming through Flash and PDF. No, Macs aren't more secure but they are more safe. I'd rather have unlocked doors in Beverley Hills than have full security with cameras living in the Bronx. BTW, just so you know, there have been many rumors that the Click2Flash plugin code had come from a programmer at Adobe because even they knew how much Flash sucked on the Mac. Also most at Adobe use Macs so they would know.
You have no idea what what you're talking about and are reposting just trying to win an argument. If you don't know any better then admit. Don't be a poser. I admit it when I when I don't know enogh about a particular subject.
BTW, to those arrogant Flash devs who think they know so much, you aren't real programmers. My 15 year old kid sister can program on Flash and make her websites look like crap so don't think you're any different judging from the sites I've been to.
... and as celebrity hacker du jour Charlie Miller told us recently, the best way of avoiding having your device compromised is by not installing Flash. All those Flash-free iPhones and soon iPads can at least know that there is one major attack vector they are automatically immune from.
I'm fairly certain Flash was not the vector in any of the latest PWN2OWN compromises, at least not on the iPhone hack.
At the eleventh hour, the Mozilla Foundation removed Flash support for Firefox Mobile for Maemo citing performance issues.
It's not just Apple.
Right?!
And it's going into April 2010 and Android, a mobile OS known to the Mozilla a couple years before Apple announced iPhone OS STILL doesn't have Flash. Yet, we to believe that Flash is great and it's Apple's fault, going back to 2007 that it's not on iPhone OS.
Then there are the glaring issues with the desktop version that still having used native frameworks, like Core Animation, available since Leopard development started, yet we are told that Adobe it up to date with Flash development and hasn't been slacking at all.
Then there is the obvious elephant in the room, the power consumption. Even when Flash 10.1 is released sometime this year for the Nexus One (though how long for all Android, WebOS, WinMo, Symbian and Maemo devices? Years?) we'll see how much of a power drain, performance slow slow down and usability hinderance it will make. My bet is that it will be substantial. Just because you offload the work from the CPU to the GPU doesn't mean the battery isn't being used. Then we'll have to see how video playback works from sites like Hulu. Have they even altered their Flash controls to work with a touch-based device?
Did you seriously not even look at the link I posted? It's all right there plain to see: Flash working perfectly on the iphone. Besides that, 10.1 is coming...
Well, it wouldn't display in my browser, and I don't bother with content that won't display in my browser. But, the title, at least, indicates that they are talking about iPhone apps, presumably generated from Flash content, which doesn't seem like anything to get excited about.
As for Flash 10.1 coming... I'm not holding my breath.
Quote:
Baseless assertion? Oh, so Apple doesn't wish to control such a thing. Ok, please show me how that's true.
Well, it's your baseless assertion, so your obligation to back it up.
Quote:
And we're not talking about fetch and send apps here. Flash content over a mobile browser could mean many things, including entire webpages devoted to distributing iphone/ipad specific content on par with what you find in the app store, thus bypassing Apple's control over what content is allowed in the app store. Really, you're going to argue with me on that?
And, exactly how will Apple control HTML5 content? Based on Apple's actions, they have no problem with anyone "bypassing [their] control" over content, whether it's HTML5 content, content for 3rd party ebook readers, etc.
I don't see that your "arguments" have even half a leg to stand on.
Quote:
It's funny how you say if they were smart, as if a bunch of morons developed flash lol
Well, it's not the developers who make the decisions on what to work on, and Flash was not originally developed by Adobe.
Quote:
What I see here is a bunch of stupid reasons to get rid of something that's not broken, and these stupid reasons stem from misinformation by Apple.
But I thought Apple's operating systems were immune to viruses?
Is that your straw man for this hour?
Sorry, Flash has jumped the shark. If the iPad takes off like it is predicted, expect Flash to lose a significant amount of relevancy over the next few years. Not just because of the iPad, but the convergence of better HTML5 tools and the continued problems, despite what you or Adobe claim, of it running on mobile devices.
You may not like it, but it's not some grand conspiracy from Apple. They are simply the most visible company making this stance. And Jobs does have a record of pushing industries; he killed the floppy drive on the Mac at considerable risk (Apple was still a vulnerable company then) and teeth-gnashing from the PC crowd, and he convinced the record industry to drop DRM on music downloads. He's getting cited as CEO of the year/decade left and right - I'd say he knows what he's doing.
And, exactly how will Apple control HTML5 content? Based on Apple's actions, they have no problem with anyone "bypassing [their] control" over content, whether it's HTML5 content, content for 3rd party ebook readers, etc.
Apple has even created and submitted HTTP Live Streaming, which gives them even less control over the content but allows them video to be streamed more efficiently and effectively to various devices with varying connection speeds.
Every argument Chronster can say about Apple wanting to control everything as being the only reason Flash is on the iPhone comes down to one fact: if they really wanted to lock down iPhone OS they wouldn't have made mobileSafari browser so damn useful.
I don't think the "repeating code" issue is really an issue at all, but can and will be solved with properly designed .js components and .css. But, yes, to move beyond simply video, proper tools are necessary, and I expect that they will be forthcoming shortly: someone will turn out to be way ahead of the curve in this regard, and I suspect it won't be Adobe. As far as paths to resources, etc., I don't see that as being anything different than what has to be handled currently, it's just a matter of doing it with different files.
Yes but when you look at the code that some artists produce with Dreamweaver you wonder how it runs at all, They have multiple head tags, body onload, mouseover functions in there several times. And the server has a Scripts folder and a JS folder and some other CSS and JS files loose in the root. So yeah they duplicate code. I guess it doesn't matter if the whole thing is AFU, it still works.
I don't think flash should go away as an interactive medium. I think it should evolve with HTML5. What do we use flash for anyway? Videoplayer? Interactive sites? Dynamic data like in Google Finance? Games?
Most of the things described here can be done with Ajax, SVG, DOMs, etc. HTML5 ultimate purpose was to eliminate installing plugins. For example Google Gears plugin is not needed anymore since HTML5 supports Local Database. The problem designing with HTML5 is there is no rapid content authoring and the only company that has the mature software is Adobe.
Adobe should embrace HTML5 feature set particularly the canvas tag which can be GPU accelerated for vector animations. Canvas is a very powerful element and it supports OpenGL 3D graphics. Adobe should integrate their flash player with Canvas.
If Adobe doesn't start now, some coder will port flash using html5.
It makes you nostalgic for when a trade learned was for life and you simply got better and better and wrinkled. I have spent the last thirty plus years having to constantly learn new things just to stay above water and even then sometimes one has to gamble in what direction to go to learn the next thing.
So true. But my first experience with this was when Macromedia shifted focus from Director to Flash, which was so frustrating that I transitioned from multimedia development to LAMP development, so I do get a bit of satisfaction from seeing Flash in decline now. But it had a pretty good run!
I was under the impression the major reason for flash not being implemented in apple devices was because it was built around using a mouse pointer at its core architecture, and Apple obviously designs its products around multitouch capabilities which flash obviously lacks?
Adobe should embrace HTML5 feature set particularly the canvas tag which can be GPU accelerated for vector animations. Canvas is a very powerful element and it supports OpenGL 3D graphics. Adobe should integrate their flash player with Canvas.
Canvas is not in the spec and I believe it is copyrighted by Apple who has not actually licensed it. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
Eventually the whole iLife suite will be on it perfectly synchronized with your mac.
likely not. Because many if the apps require more power than the ipad is likely to ever have.
now some ilife lite apps that work with the desktop versions and allow you to do some stuff off your ipad sure. the video editing we have on the iphone, sure. the recording podcasts from garageband and updating blogs from iweb, probably. very basic photo editing like cropping and redeye, yeah.
and yes the iweb stuff will likely be html5 as will the desktop version in the near future. if they would also work on being able to make your own page templates and better html inserting without the whole iframe nonsense (or at least let me lock it to a relative point) then I might use iweb more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34
Flash for video, yes. Flash for everything else? No. And anyone who thinks Flash is used only for video is being naive.
but what are those other uses. Ads jumping all over the place and taking over your screen when you hover over them. blech.
games. well the games developers are the first to point out that Flash is a mouse based tech and thus doesn't really work on a touch system so they get why there's no flash on the iphone os.
Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant
Yes, I think they were designers
yep. designers are loathe to spend time learning something new when the old school works.
we see it in video as well. My boss just bid on a pack of industrials and found out that our price was one fifth that of the Avid only company that also bid and tried to tell the company that Final Cut can't do what Avid can (which is how they justify the higher price). My boss countered with a reel of our work AND comments from several big name professionals about how they use Final Cut for their work. oops.
Why are people around here so absolutely oblivious to the fact that Flash on the iphone is not only possible,
no it is not. for the plain fact that there's no support in the OS. Just like you can't run Windows software natively in Mac OS. The support isn't there.
As for your link. Those are not Flash apps running on the phone. they are apps built using Flash for the layout etc and then ported via Adobe's own convertor to the iphone's 'non Flash' OS.
Quote:
It's Apple that's keeping flash from it's portable devices, and nobody else.
well sure. That's Apple's right. You don't like it, don't buy. And if you are a publisher or developer and don't like those rules, don't play. Don't make stuff for Apple's devices. If you lose a lot of money over it, it will be worth it cause you took a stand against Apple's tyranny.
Quote:
If apps which are the equivalent of what you see on the iphone can be delivered over the web via flash, then Apple loses it's control of distributing everything over the app store. Suddenly games can be had in the web browser.
but that also means being online the whole time. Many games don't need to be online for the actual game play because they aren't some kind of networked multiplayer gig. But if they are in the browser you are stuck if you lose connectivity. As a standalone app that's not a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
The iPad is not meant to replace a full-function laptop or desktop. That's not the point of this device. The point, as I see it, is that for millions of customers, laptops are overkill for what they in fact wind up doing on their portable devices. They sacrifice battery life, portability, etc. when all they want to do is maybe email, some surfing, media playback, play games, etc. Meanwhile portable devices like the iPhone and the Touch just don't have enough screen real estate for a truly enjoyable web browsing experience. That's where the iPad comes in. It will do certain things exceptionally well and others, well, if there are people intent on using the device for something to which it's not suited, the fault lies with the consumer not the product manufacturer. It would be akin to someone complaining that their steak knife does a lousy job of trimming hedges. It's the main reason, I suspect, that the iPad will not, at least to start, run a full version of OS X.
someone using his head for more than holding a hat. well said
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147
Flash isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Ads, restaurant menus and some games will still be around for the time being.
Ads and inaccessible websites don't win me on the whole Flash is best/better/just as good argument.
Flash is better than html5, plain and simple. Apple has simply spun the truth about flash on mobile platforms and everyone here has gobbled it up without question.
I don't think anyone gobbled anything up without question. See AppleInsider's 3-part series exploring the topic, etc. I think that instead, after 2+ years of mixed messages about Flash on the iPhone, everyone was waiting to see what happened. When the iPad was introduced with no Flash, then everyone knew the score and now we're seeing big companies like the NY Times start to react. They had plenty of time to prepare a reaction so it shouldn't be surprising if they move quickly now.
By the way, I think this is partly an acknowledgement of Apple's leadership status, and partly an acknowledgement that at the end of the day, you can't make them support Flash if they don't want to.
As far as Flash running on iPhone, it does. Only version 1 and 2 but that is plenty good for making obnoxious ads. So to all who don't want to believe it, go ahead on, live in denial, but you'll be screaming for something to block it soon enough. Gordon JS Flash library runs real Flash on an iPhone[.]
Yes but when you look at the code that some artists produce with Dreamweaver you wonder how it runs at all, They have multiple head tags, body onload, mouseover functions in there several times. And the server has a Scripts folder and a JS folder and some other CSS and JS files loose in the root. So yeah they duplicate code. I guess it doesn't matter if the whole thing is AFU, it still works.
Well, sure, plenty of people create horrible code that "works". That will never change.
Well, sure, plenty of people create horrible code that "works". That will never change.
Another thing that won't change is that coding web pages is getting more complicated and more difficult for artists all the time. With all the different platforms to target and so many server side languages, it is not going to be a trivial undertaking to produce an authoring application for HTML5 that is as easy to use Flash is now. Artists still screw Flash up anyway, which is one of the things that makes so many Flash swfs so crappy to begin with. 'Made by Amateurs'.
While the site layout is horrible this paragraph sums up nicely the problem Adobe is facing...
Google not only makes a browser, a phone, an OS, and Google Docs, it also owns a tremendous amount of video content that can be converted to play in HTML5, sans plug-in. Apple not only makes Macs, iPhones, and iPads, it is also among the largest retail distributors of video and audio content.
Over the weekend, a lot of people were doing the math, and there was panic at Adobe and schadenfreude elsewhere. Apple and Adobe invented modern publishing together in the 1980s, and they?ve been fighting like an old unmarried couple ever since, but Apple?s decision to omit Flash from the iPad isn?t about revenge, it?s about delivering a stable platform. And with HTML5 here, the tea leaves are easy to read. Developers who supplement Flash with HTML5 may soon tire of Flash?but Adobe has a brief but golden opportunity to create the tools with which rich HTML5 content is created. Let?s see if they figure that out.
As far as Flash running on iPhone, it does. Only version 1 and 2 but that is plenty good for making obnoxious ads. So to all who don't want to believe it, go ahead on, live in denial, but you'll be screaming for something to block it soon enough. Gordon JS Flash library runs real Flash on an iPhone[.]
Really? When we talk about Flash not being designed for mobiles we're talking about Flash as a useful tool, like it can be on desktop OSes. That includes, but not limited to, playing video from sites like YouTube, Hulu, Vimeo, etc. That means Flash 10.x.x and greater.
Another thing that won't change is that coding web pages is getting more complicated and more difficult for artists all the time. With all the different platforms to target and so many server side languages, it is not going to be a trivial undertaking to produce an authoring application for HTML5 that is as easy to use Flash is now. Artists still screw Flash up anyway, which is one of the things that makes so many Flash swfs so crappy to begin with. 'Made by Amateurs'.
Well, it's never trivial to produce any sort of content creation software, but it will be done.
And, of course, HTML won't make crappy web sites go away, people were producing those long before Flash was available, and they'll keep on doing it.
Comments
Ah that explains it, Apple are assholes, no more to be said.
But I thought Apple's operating systems were immune to viruses? I mean, they sure do attack Microsoft enough for it, don't they? Oh right, all viruses and security threats come from Flash... But Flash is on OSX?
Honestly, by your logic, if security truly was the reason, then Flash would not work on OSX (especially considering usually no AV software installed.)
Calling Apple assholes as the reason is a very general statement, but isn't it funny how it so correctly sums up everything?
But I thought Apple's operating systems were immune to viruses? I mean, they sure do attack Microsoft enough for it, don't they? Oh right, all viruses and security threats come from Flash... But Flash is on OSX?
Honestly, by your logic, if security truly was the reason, then Flash would not work on OSX (especially considering usually no AV software installed.)
Calling Apple assholes as the reason is a very general statement, but isn't it funny how it so correctly sums up everything?
Apple asshole right here! You know nothing. Charlie Miller, the man who has hacked Safari for 3 years to win the prize said to not install Flash.
http://blog.intego.com/2010/03/03/ma...flash-is-weak/
If you knew anything, you'd know that most of the exploits for the past year have been coming through Flash and PDF. No, Macs aren't more secure but they are more safe. I'd rather have unlocked doors in Beverley Hills than have full security with cameras living in the Bronx. BTW, just so you know, there have been many rumors that the Click2Flash plugin code had come from a programmer at Adobe because even they knew how much Flash sucked on the Mac. Also most at Adobe use Macs so they would know.
You have no idea what what you're talking about and are reposting just trying to win an argument. If you don't know any better then admit. Don't be a poser. I admit it when I when I don't know enogh about a particular subject.
BTW, to those arrogant Flash devs who think they know so much, you aren't real programmers. My 15 year old kid sister can program on Flash and make her websites look like crap so don't think you're any different judging from the sites I've been to.
... and as celebrity hacker du jour Charlie Miller told us recently, the best way of avoiding having your device compromised is by not installing Flash. All those Flash-free iPhones and soon iPads can at least know that there is one major attack vector they are automatically immune from.
I'm fairly certain Flash was not the vector in any of the latest PWN2OWN compromises, at least not on the iPhone hack.
At the eleventh hour, the Mozilla Foundation removed Flash support for Firefox Mobile for Maemo citing performance issues.
It's not just Apple.
Right?!
And it's going into April 2010 and Android, a mobile OS known to the Mozilla a couple years before Apple announced iPhone OS STILL doesn't have Flash. Yet, we to believe that Flash is great and it's Apple's fault, going back to 2007 that it's not on iPhone OS.
Then there are the glaring issues with the desktop version that still having used native frameworks, like Core Animation, available since Leopard development started, yet we are told that Adobe it up to date with Flash development and hasn't been slacking at all.
Then there is the obvious elephant in the room, the power consumption. Even when Flash 10.1 is released sometime this year for the Nexus One (though how long for all Android, WebOS, WinMo, Symbian and Maemo devices? Years?) we'll see how much of a power drain, performance slow slow down and usability hinderance it will make. My bet is that it will be substantial. Just because you offload the work from the CPU to the GPU doesn't mean the battery isn't being used. Then we'll have to see how video playback works from sites like Hulu. Have they even altered their Flash controls to work with a touch-based device?
Did you seriously not even look at the link I posted? It's all right there plain to see: Flash working perfectly on the iphone. Besides that, 10.1 is coming...
Well, it wouldn't display in my browser, and I don't bother with content that won't display in my browser. But, the title, at least, indicates that they are talking about iPhone apps, presumably generated from Flash content, which doesn't seem like anything to get excited about.
As for Flash 10.1 coming... I'm not holding my breath.
Baseless assertion? Oh, so Apple doesn't wish to control such a thing. Ok, please show me how that's true.
Well, it's your baseless assertion, so your obligation to back it up.
And we're not talking about fetch and send apps here. Flash content over a mobile browser could mean many things, including entire webpages devoted to distributing iphone/ipad specific content on par with what you find in the app store, thus bypassing Apple's control over what content is allowed in the app store. Really, you're going to argue with me on that?
And, exactly how will Apple control HTML5 content? Based on Apple's actions, they have no problem with anyone "bypassing [their] control" over content, whether it's HTML5 content, content for 3rd party ebook readers, etc.
I don't see that your "arguments" have even half a leg to stand on.
It's funny how you say if they were smart, as if a bunch of morons developed flash lol
Well, it's not the developers who make the decisions on what to work on, and Flash was not originally developed by Adobe.
What I see here is a bunch of stupid reasons to get rid of something that's not broken, and these stupid reasons stem from misinformation by Apple.
What I see here is you grasping at straws.
But I thought Apple's operating systems were immune to viruses?
Is that your straw man for this hour?
Sorry, Flash has jumped the shark. If the iPad takes off like it is predicted, expect Flash to lose a significant amount of relevancy over the next few years. Not just because of the iPad, but the convergence of better HTML5 tools and the continued problems, despite what you or Adobe claim, of it running on mobile devices.
You may not like it, but it's not some grand conspiracy from Apple. They are simply the most visible company making this stance. And Jobs does have a record of pushing industries; he killed the floppy drive on the Mac at considerable risk (Apple was still a vulnerable company then) and teeth-gnashing from the PC crowd, and he convinced the record industry to drop DRM on music downloads. He's getting cited as CEO of the year/decade left and right - I'd say he knows what he's doing.
Your arguments... not so convincing.
And, exactly how will Apple control HTML5 content? Based on Apple's actions, they have no problem with anyone "bypassing [their] control" over content, whether it's HTML5 content, content for 3rd party ebook readers, etc.
Apple has even created and submitted HTTP Live Streaming, which gives them even less control over the content but allows them video to be streamed more efficiently and effectively to various devices with varying connection speeds.
Every argument Chronster can say about Apple wanting to control everything as being the only reason Flash is on the iPhone comes down to one fact: if they really wanted to lock down iPhone OS they wouldn't have made mobileSafari browser so damn useful.
I don't think the "repeating code" issue is really an issue at all, but can and will be solved with properly designed .js components and .css. But, yes, to move beyond simply video, proper tools are necessary, and I expect that they will be forthcoming shortly: someone will turn out to be way ahead of the curve in this regard, and I suspect it won't be Adobe. As far as paths to resources, etc., I don't see that as being anything different than what has to be handled currently, it's just a matter of doing it with different files.
Yes but when you look at the code that some artists produce with Dreamweaver you wonder how it runs at all, They have multiple head tags, body onload, mouseover functions in there several times. And the server has a Scripts folder and a JS folder and some other CSS and JS files loose in the root. So yeah they duplicate code. I guess it doesn't matter if the whole thing is AFU, it still works.
Most of the things described here can be done with Ajax, SVG, DOMs, etc. HTML5 ultimate purpose was to eliminate installing plugins. For example Google Gears plugin is not needed anymore since HTML5 supports Local Database. The problem designing with HTML5 is there is no rapid content authoring and the only company that has the mature software is Adobe.
Adobe should embrace HTML5 feature set particularly the canvas tag which can be GPU accelerated for vector animations. Canvas is a very powerful element and it supports OpenGL 3D graphics. Adobe should integrate their flash player with Canvas.
If Adobe doesn't start now, some coder will port flash using html5.
EDIT: It already has started. http://m.sitepoint.com/blogs/2010/02...-flash-player/
EDIT2: And it works on the iPhone! http://paulirish.com/work/gordon/demos/
It makes you nostalgic for when a trade learned was for life and you simply got better and better and wrinkled. I have spent the last thirty plus years having to constantly learn new things just to stay above water and even then sometimes one has to gamble in what direction to go to learn the next thing.
So true. But my first experience with this was when Macromedia shifted focus from Director to Flash, which was so frustrating that I transitioned from multimedia development to LAMP development, so I do get a bit of satisfaction from seeing Flash in decline now. But it had a pretty good run!
Adobe should embrace HTML5 feature set particularly the canvas tag which can be GPU accelerated for vector animations. Canvas is a very powerful element and it supports OpenGL 3D graphics. Adobe should integrate their flash player with Canvas.
Canvas is not in the spec and I believe it is copyrighted by Apple who has not actually licensed it. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
Eventually the whole iLife suite will be on it perfectly synchronized with your mac.
likely not. Because many if the apps require more power than the ipad is likely to ever have.
now some ilife lite apps that work with the desktop versions and allow you to do some stuff off your ipad sure. the video editing we have on the iphone, sure. the recording podcasts from garageband and updating blogs from iweb, probably. very basic photo editing like cropping and redeye, yeah.
and yes the iweb stuff will likely be html5 as will the desktop version in the near future. if they would also work on being able to make your own page templates and better html inserting without the whole iframe nonsense (or at least let me lock it to a relative point) then I might use iweb more.
Flash for video, yes. Flash for everything else? No. And anyone who thinks Flash is used only for video is being naive.
but what are those other uses. Ads jumping all over the place and taking over your screen when you hover over them. blech.
games. well the games developers are the first to point out that Flash is a mouse based tech and thus doesn't really work on a touch system so they get why there's no flash on the iphone os.
Yes, I think they were designers
yep. designers are loathe to spend time learning something new when the old school works.
we see it in video as well. My boss just bid on a pack of industrials and found out that our price was one fifth that of the Avid only company that also bid and tried to tell the company that Final Cut can't do what Avid can (which is how they justify the higher price). My boss countered with a reel of our work AND comments from several big name professionals about how they use Final Cut for their work. oops.
http://tv.adobe.com/en/watch/flash-p...ilt-with-flash
Why are people around here so absolutely oblivious to the fact that Flash on the iphone is not only possible,
no it is not. for the plain fact that there's no support in the OS. Just like you can't run Windows software natively in Mac OS. The support isn't there.
As for your link. Those are not Flash apps running on the phone. they are apps built using Flash for the layout etc and then ported via Adobe's own convertor to the iphone's 'non Flash' OS.
It's Apple that's keeping flash from it's portable devices, and nobody else.
well sure. That's Apple's right. You don't like it, don't buy. And if you are a publisher or developer and don't like those rules, don't play. Don't make stuff for Apple's devices. If you lose a lot of money over it, it will be worth it cause you took a stand against Apple's tyranny.
If apps which are the equivalent of what you see on the iphone can be delivered over the web via flash, then Apple loses it's control of distributing everything over the app store. Suddenly games can be had in the web browser.
but that also means being online the whole time. Many games don't need to be online for the actual game play because they aren't some kind of networked multiplayer gig. But if they are in the browser you are stuck if you lose connectivity. As a standalone app that's not a problem.
The iPad is not meant to replace a full-function laptop or desktop. That's not the point of this device. The point, as I see it, is that for millions of customers, laptops are overkill for what they in fact wind up doing on their portable devices. They sacrifice battery life, portability, etc. when all they want to do is maybe email, some surfing, media playback, play games, etc. Meanwhile portable devices like the iPhone and the Touch just don't have enough screen real estate for a truly enjoyable web browsing experience. That's where the iPad comes in. It will do certain things exceptionally well and others, well, if there are people intent on using the device for something to which it's not suited, the fault lies with the consumer not the product manufacturer. It would be akin to someone complaining that their steak knife does a lousy job of trimming hedges. It's the main reason, I suspect, that the iPad will not, at least to start, run a full version of OS X.
someone using his head for more than holding a hat. well said
Flash isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Ads, restaurant menus and some games will still be around for the time being.
Ads and inaccessible websites don't win me on the whole Flash is best/better/just as good argument.
Flash is better than html5, plain and simple. Apple has simply spun the truth about flash on mobile platforms and everyone here has gobbled it up without question.
I don't think anyone gobbled anything up without question. See AppleInsider's 3-part series exploring the topic, etc. I think that instead, after 2+ years of mixed messages about Flash on the iPhone, everyone was waiting to see what happened. When the iPad was introduced with no Flash, then everyone knew the score and now we're seeing big companies like the NY Times start to react. They had plenty of time to prepare a reaction so it shouldn't be surprising if they move quickly now.
By the way, I think this is partly an acknowledgement of Apple's leadership status, and partly an acknowledgement that at the end of the day, you can't make them support Flash if they don't want to.
Yes but when you look at the code that some artists produce with Dreamweaver you wonder how it runs at all, They have multiple head tags, body onload, mouseover functions in there several times. And the server has a Scripts folder and a JS folder and some other CSS and JS files loose in the root. So yeah they duplicate code. I guess it doesn't matter if the whole thing is AFU, it still works.
Well, sure, plenty of people create horrible code that "works". That will never change.
Well, sure, plenty of people create horrible code that "works". That will never change.
Another thing that won't change is that coding web pages is getting more complicated and more difficult for artists all the time. With all the different platforms to target and so many server side languages, it is not going to be a trivial undertaking to produce an authoring application for HTML5 that is as easy to use Flash is now. Artists still screw Flash up anyway, which is one of the things that makes so many Flash swfs so crappy to begin with. 'Made by Amateurs'.
As far as Flash running on iPhone, it does. Only version 1 and 2 but that is plenty good for making obnoxious ads. So to all who don't want to believe it, go ahead on, live in denial, but you'll be screaming for something to block it soon enough. Gordon JS Flash library runs real Flash on an iPhone[.]
Really? When we talk about Flash not being designed for mobiles we're talking about Flash as a useful tool, like it can be on desktop OSes. That includes, but not limited to, playing video from sites like YouTube, Hulu, Vimeo, etc. That means Flash 10.x.x and greater.
Another thing that won't change is that coding web pages is getting more complicated and more difficult for artists all the time. With all the different platforms to target and so many server side languages, it is not going to be a trivial undertaking to produce an authoring application for HTML5 that is as easy to use Flash is now. Artists still screw Flash up anyway, which is one of the things that makes so many Flash swfs so crappy to begin with. 'Made by Amateurs'.
Well, it's never trivial to produce any sort of content creation software, but it will be done.
And, of course, HTML won't make crappy web sites go away, people were producing those long before Flash was available, and they'll keep on doing it.