The fear that Apple will make ARM instruction proprietary and lock out competitors could run the ire of the Department of Justice Antitrust Division in the USA and the European Union antitrust regulators, and that will kibosh the deal in no time flat.
The fear that Apple will make ARM instruction proprietary and lock out competitors could run the ire of the Department of Justice Antitrust Division in the USA and the European Union antitrust regulators, and that will kibosh the deal in no time flat.
Totally unfounded. When Apple bought PA Semi people said the same thing but everything blew over and no one got screwed.
I have no inside information but something tells me Apple and Intel are currently deadlocked in intense negotiations and Apple is using it as a ploy to gain leverage.
Last week Apple was in talks with AMD, this week they're buying ARM. Something smells fishy. \
I have no inside information but something tells me Apple and Intel are currently deadlocked in intense negotiations and Apple is using it as a ploy to gain leverage.
Last week Apple was in talks with AMD, this week they're buying ARM. Something smells fishy. \
Intel has no play here. Atom isn't a mobile phone architecture and won't be for a while. Apple can print money here.
They have the PA Semi IP and a lot of talent left over and it appears they've got Intrinsity. They can print money with this acquisition and set the market. Not by withholding products from competitors but rather barring other solutions from gaining any traction.
Totally unfounded. When Apple bought PA Semi people said the same thing but everything blew over and no one got screwed.
This one's more difficult though. Could Apple have two design departments? One designing cores for the general market as ARM does now, and another designing cores just for themselves (leveraging the other department's designs)? It would be tricky.
Would customers think that Apple was keeping the best IP for themselves deliberately? Of course, third parties could always rework the designs as they do now. But you've got to wonder. Would they think that Apple has left "holes" in the designs that will cause them problems? Not saying it would happen, but they could think it.
Maybe Apple should just invest in a big chunk of it, but not enough for voting control.
Buy ARM Holdings and move the Mac to ARM in a few years! This is of course a wild claim, but how about a 50 core ARM processor using GCD for load balancing? Apple has a lot of control over the software stack to make this happen. Execution unit density could be much higher with this configuration. It could also be more energy efficient because cores can be turned off. The iPad runs so cold, i bet they could pack a lot of silicon in there without overheating issues.
On second thought, maybe it isn't so wild. It would give Apple a huge competitive advantage that Microsoft couldn't touch because they have too many hardware partners. There is obviously a lot of interest in this type of design if you look at others out there like the Sony Cell. It would be great for some of Apple's existing markets too: Super Computers, Video Encoding, and Graphic Design.
This one's more difficult though. Could Apple have two design departments? One designing cores for the general market as ARM does now, and another designing cores just for themselves (leveraging the other department's designs)? It would be tricky.
Would customers think that Apple was keeping the best IP for themselves deliberately? Of course, third parties could always rework the designs as they do now. But you've got to wonder. Would they think that Apple has left "holes" in the designs that will cause them problems? Not saying it would happen, but they could think it.
Maybe Apple should just invest in a big chunk of it, but not enough for voting control.
So what if Apple leaves "holes" in the design.
Nothing would stop anyone from starting up their own company and designing their own chips.
Now, if Apple went to Samsung and said "don't manufacturer these other chips or you cant manufacture ours" you might have an argument.
ARM has one of the best business models in the business. All they do is create the designs, and sell them to others, who then have to invest in actually building those chips.
That being said, I can't see how Apple would prevent a PA Semi style outflow of engineers if they acquired ARM? I think it would not be smart of Apple to stop them from selling to competitors (for employee morale, as well as anti-trust reasons). A better idea might be to continue selling designs to 3rd parties, but getting a 3-6 month lead in development time (in the mobile industry this is huge, since its half the life-cycle of a phone).
The best reason for Apple to buy ARM would be because it gets rid of the licensing cost to Apple. They could still license the tech to others, at current rates, to avoid upsetting the market too much. But Apple would have a competitive advantage of not having to pay the licensing costs for ARM's designs.
"A deal would make a lot of sense for Apple. That way, they could stop ARM's technology from ending up in everyone else's computers and gadgets.?
The report added "traders reckon a bid would come in at around 400p a share, valuing ARM at more than £5.2 billion [$8 billion US]."
If they stopped ARM technology from ending up in everyone else's computers and gadgets that would massively reduce ARM's revenue and it would no longer be worth 8 billion.
It also wouldn't affect the competition in the short term as they already have licenses to use ARM technology (just like Apple does). Longer term there are alternatives like the Intel Moorestown System-on-Chip. The new Intel platform is much more power efficient than their previous offering.
Strikes me as rather a waste of 8 billion dollars.
This one's more difficult though. Could Apple have two design departments? One designing cores for the general market as ARM does now, and another designing cores just for themselves (leveraging the other department's designs)? It would be tricky.
Would customers think that Apple was keeping the best IP for themselves deliberately?
That would be considered competitive advantage. And Apple does keep the best (nearly ALL) IP for themselves currently anyway, so what would be the surprise?
Apple buying ARM IMO raises no more of a stink than
HP and Compaq merging
Adobe acquiring Macromedia
etc.
Apple didn't get to where they are by throwing good money out the window. ARM's licensing is of direct value to Apple as well as their expertise.
In fact with Intrinsity onboard they will be able to goose the cores up to ridiculous levels and make hay with the current licensees.
There's a reason why they snapped up Intrinsity. No one else can take a Cortex A8 beyond 650hz. Apple knows they have a gold mine here to license.
Ca'ching! Cash registrers are going off.
Or Compaq and DEC merging... or Oracle and SUN merging... Lots of more significant examples...
Speaking of SUN... who is Apple going to acquire for a new filesystem? Their ZFS plans got screwed and Apple didn't even put up a fight... they must have something planned...
Nothing would stop anyone from starting up their own company and designing their own chips.
Now, if Apple went to Samsung and said "don't manufacturer these other chips or you cant manufacture ours" you might have an argument.
Considering that most of the industry uses these designs, that wouldn't be sustainable.
You know, just because we're Apple users doesn't mean that we can think that anything that Apple MAY do would be ok. If another company did that to Apple, you would be among the first up and screaming about how unfair it is.
If they stopped ARM technology from ending up in everyone else's computers and gadgets that would massively reduce ARM's revenue and it would no longer be worth 8 billion.
It also wouldn't affect the competition in the short term as they already have licenses to use ARM technology (just like Apple does). Longer term there are alternatives like the Intel Moorestown System-on-Chip. The new Intel platform is much more power efficient than their previous offering.
Strikes me as rather a waste of 8 billion dollars.
It depends. Only Apple knows that answer to that. Apple needs to prepare for the next 5 years now. If they need more control over ARM to fit their plans, then it makes sense to buy them. The whole reason to make some of the acquisitions they have made already is to use their "we own the operating system" advantage to move beyond where the market will move on it's own. Otherwise they should have used a snapdragon or hummingbird for their current generation. The market currently isn't set up in a way for the operating system and hardware to change together. To do that things need to move in house. Things will definitely be interesting in the next few years.
The best reason for Apple to buy ARM would be because it gets rid of the licensing cost to Apple. They could still license the tech to others, at current rates, to avoid upsetting the market too much. But Apple would have a competitive advantage of not having to pay the licensing costs for ARM's designs.
If AMM Holdings cost Apple $8 billion, I don't think the purchase is going to cover the licensing costs.
If they stopped ARM technology from ending up in everyone else's computers and gadgets that would massively reduce ARM's revenue and it would no longer be worth 8 billion.
It also wouldn't affect the competition in the short term as they already have licenses to use ARM technology (just like Apple does). Longer term there are alternatives like the Intel Moorestown System-on-Chip. The new Intel platform is much more power efficient than their previous offering.
Strikes me as rather a waste of 8 billion dollars.
That would be considered competitive advantage. And Apple does keep the best (nearly ALL) IP for themselves currently anyway, so what would be the surprise?
Comments
The fear that Apple will make ARM instruction proprietary and lock out competitors could run the ire of the Department of Justice Antitrust Division in the USA and the European Union antitrust regulators, and that will kibosh the deal in no time flat.
HP and Compaq merging
Adobe acquiring Macromedia
etc.
Apple didn't get to where they are by throwing good money out the window. ARM's licensing is of direct value to Apple as well as their expertise.
In fact with Intrinsity onboard they will be able to goose the cores up to ridiculous levels and make hay with the current licensees.
There's a reason why they snapped up Intrinsity. No one else can take a Cortex A8 beyond 650hz. Apple knows they have a gold mine here to license.
Ca'ching! Cash registrers are going off.
Sorry, it won't happen.
The fear that Apple will make ARM instruction proprietary and lock out competitors could run the ire of the Department of Justice Antitrust Division in the USA and the European Union antitrust regulators, and that will kibosh the deal in no time flat.
Totally unfounded. When Apple bought PA Semi people said the same thing but everything blew over and no one got screwed.
Last week Apple was in talks with AMD, this week they're buying ARM. Something smells fishy.
I have no inside information but something tells me Apple and Intel are currently deadlocked in intense negotiations and Apple is using it as a ploy to gain leverage.
Last week Apple was in talks with AMD, this week they're buying ARM. Something smells fishy.
Intel has no play here. Atom isn't a mobile phone architecture and won't be for a while. Apple can print money here.
They have the PA Semi IP and a lot of talent left over and it appears they've got Intrinsity. They can print money with this acquisition and set the market. Not by withholding products from competitors but rather barring other solutions from gaining any traction.
We have all seen Googles willingness to swoop in and jack a deal when Apple is on the move.
YES!!!
No, I they're just a IP company, hence the name ARM Holdings.
As business entities go, it's a wonderful pun, too.
Totally unfounded. When Apple bought PA Semi people said the same thing but everything blew over and no one got screwed.
This one's more difficult though. Could Apple have two design departments? One designing cores for the general market as ARM does now, and another designing cores just for themselves (leveraging the other department's designs)? It would be tricky.
Would customers think that Apple was keeping the best IP for themselves deliberately? Of course, third parties could always rework the designs as they do now. But you've got to wonder. Would they think that Apple has left "holes" in the designs that will cause them problems? Not saying it would happen, but they could think it.
Maybe Apple should just invest in a big chunk of it, but not enough for voting control.
On second thought, maybe it isn't so wild. It would give Apple a huge competitive advantage that Microsoft couldn't touch because they have too many hardware partners. There is obviously a lot of interest in this type of design if you look at others out there like the Sony Cell. It would be great for some of Apple's existing markets too: Super Computers, Video Encoding, and Graphic Design.
This one's more difficult though. Could Apple have two design departments? One designing cores for the general market as ARM does now, and another designing cores just for themselves (leveraging the other department's designs)? It would be tricky.
Would customers think that Apple was keeping the best IP for themselves deliberately? Of course, third parties could always rework the designs as they do now. But you've got to wonder. Would they think that Apple has left "holes" in the designs that will cause them problems? Not saying it would happen, but they could think it.
Maybe Apple should just invest in a big chunk of it, but not enough for voting control.
So what if Apple leaves "holes" in the design.
Nothing would stop anyone from starting up their own company and designing their own chips.
Now, if Apple went to Samsung and said "don't manufacturer these other chips or you cant manufacture ours" you might have an argument.
ARM has one of the best business models in the business. All they do is create the designs, and sell them to others, who then have to invest in actually building those chips.
That being said, I can't see how Apple would prevent a PA Semi style outflow of engineers if they acquired ARM? I think it would not be smart of Apple to stop them from selling to competitors (for employee morale, as well as anti-trust reasons). A better idea might be to continue selling designs to 3rd parties, but getting a 3-6 month lead in development time (in the mobile industry this is huge, since its half the life-cycle of a phone).
The best reason for Apple to buy ARM would be because it gets rid of the licensing cost to Apple. They could still license the tech to others, at current rates, to avoid upsetting the market too much. But Apple would have a competitive advantage of not having to pay the licensing costs for ARM's designs.
"A deal would make a lot of sense for Apple. That way, they could stop ARM's technology from ending up in everyone else's computers and gadgets.?
The report added "traders reckon a bid would come in at around 400p a share, valuing ARM at more than £5.2 billion [$8 billion US]."
If they stopped ARM technology from ending up in everyone else's computers and gadgets that would massively reduce ARM's revenue and it would no longer be worth 8 billion.
It also wouldn't affect the competition in the short term as they already have licenses to use ARM technology (just like Apple does). Longer term there are alternatives like the Intel Moorestown System-on-Chip. The new Intel platform is much more power efficient than their previous offering.
Strikes me as rather a waste of 8 billion dollars.
This one's more difficult though. Could Apple have two design departments? One designing cores for the general market as ARM does now, and another designing cores just for themselves (leveraging the other department's designs)? It would be tricky.
Would customers think that Apple was keeping the best IP for themselves deliberately?
That would be considered competitive advantage. And Apple does keep the best (nearly ALL) IP for themselves currently anyway, so what would be the surprise?
Apple buying ARM IMO raises no more of a stink than
HP and Compaq merging
Adobe acquiring Macromedia
etc.
Apple didn't get to where they are by throwing good money out the window. ARM's licensing is of direct value to Apple as well as their expertise.
In fact with Intrinsity onboard they will be able to goose the cores up to ridiculous levels and make hay with the current licensees.
There's a reason why they snapped up Intrinsity. No one else can take a Cortex A8 beyond 650hz. Apple knows they have a gold mine here to license.
Ca'ching! Cash registrers are going off.
Or Compaq and DEC merging... or Oracle and SUN merging... Lots of more significant examples...
Speaking of SUN... who is Apple going to acquire for a new filesystem? Their ZFS plans got screwed and Apple didn't even put up a fight... they must have something planned...
So what if Apple leaves "holes" in the design.
Nothing would stop anyone from starting up their own company and designing their own chips.
Now, if Apple went to Samsung and said "don't manufacturer these other chips or you cant manufacture ours" you might have an argument.
Considering that most of the industry uses these designs, that wouldn't be sustainable.
You know, just because we're Apple users doesn't mean that we can think that anything that Apple MAY do would be ok. If another company did that to Apple, you would be among the first up and screaming about how unfair it is.
If they stopped ARM technology from ending up in everyone else's computers and gadgets that would massively reduce ARM's revenue and it would no longer be worth 8 billion.
It also wouldn't affect the competition in the short term as they already have licenses to use ARM technology (just like Apple does). Longer term there are alternatives like the Intel Moorestown System-on-Chip. The new Intel platform is much more power efficient than their previous offering.
Strikes me as rather a waste of 8 billion dollars.
It depends. Only Apple knows that answer to that. Apple needs to prepare for the next 5 years now. If they need more control over ARM to fit their plans, then it makes sense to buy them. The whole reason to make some of the acquisitions they have made already is to use their "we own the operating system" advantage to move beyond where the market will move on it's own. Otherwise they should have used a snapdragon or hummingbird for their current generation. The market currently isn't set up in a way for the operating system and hardware to change together. To do that things need to move in house. Things will definitely be interesting in the next few years.
The best reason for Apple to buy ARM would be because it gets rid of the licensing cost to Apple. They could still license the tech to others, at current rates, to avoid upsetting the market too much. But Apple would have a competitive advantage of not having to pay the licensing costs for ARM's designs.
If AMM Holdings cost Apple $8 billion, I don't think the purchase is going to cover the licensing costs.
If they stopped ARM technology from ending up in everyone else's computers and gadgets that would massively reduce ARM's revenue and it would no longer be worth 8 billion.
It also wouldn't affect the competition in the short term as they already have licenses to use ARM technology (just like Apple does). Longer term there are alternatives like the Intel Moorestown System-on-Chip. The new Intel platform is much more power efficient than their previous offering.
Strikes me as rather a waste of 8 billion dollars.
This is the same problem with buying Adobe
That would be considered competitive advantage. And Apple does keep the best (nearly ALL) IP for themselves currently anyway, so what would be the surprise?
Apple has NO ARM IP right now.