Do you think Apple will allow ad blocking software on the iPhone and iPad, when Apple itself makes money off the ads?
Will we be able to opt out of being tracked by advertisers?
Will we be warned before we download an app that it includes iAd tracking?
Will paid apps be allowed to shovel ads at us, and track us?
Creepy.
This already happens on the internet in a very pervasive way. Yes, you can decide to block cookies etc but the reality is that a high majority of websites require cookies just to function properly, so it's a catch-22. iApps like Foursquare etc. are even more sinister as it relates to truly being able to target consumers. Most people that use it don't really understand that they are giving everyone access to their whereabouts, etc. (thus my choice of the word sinister) and companies are using that information to target offers to them when they are in the vicinity. One could argue that it's an explicit opt-in and thus the consumer "knows" what they are giving up.
Being "in the business" my goal is to create value to the consumer in such a way that the privacy trade off is worth it. However, I personally significantly limit my own exposure to these situations.
Does anyone else wonder if blogs and comments on sites such as these alert FTC staff to possible investigations? I suppose the official story is that their attention is gotten through formal channels, but I suspect that younger, tech savvy staffers might get inspired by comments of ire and outrage posted by adherents of one camp or another. This makes me wonder if some of the Adobe v. Apple postings might be orchestrated for this purpose.
The alert would have been 1) that Adobe has raised the issue direct with the FTC and 2) Apple and Adobe comments have hit the mainstream business press which FTC certainly reads.
To understand this administration's seeming interest Apple's move into online advertising, it helps to look at the early, large, and very one-sided donations that Google made to Obama's political campaign-donations on a far greater scale than any other Silicon Valley company. Otherwise, given Google's current domination of online advertising, federal regulators would be delighted to see Google acquire some competition.
In short, if you want to understand politics, follow the money.
Is it just me, or is anyone else getting the impression that all of the biggest and most successful companies are getting the shakedown by the government? I think many, if not all of these recent cases will end in fines. Regulators gone wild.
The market is mobile phones and apps for mobile phones. And i think we can all agree that Apple does not have a monopoly on mobile phones or apps to go with them.
You are very cavalier in defining the relevant market. It is not an easy question at all.
The only potential issue is analytics, gathering data on the users in order to provide targeted ads. Now this is a 2 sided argument, on the one hand you can say it's bad of Apple to deny access to this data to others and that this is anti-competetive, or you can say that it's good for consumers as it keeps the analytic information within the Apple sphere of influence, and as they already know all about you in the first place it's not really doing you any harm, and it's only keeping your privacy from being compromised by a third party advertiser who you haven't already permitted to know your usage habits.
Um, it's even MORE anti-competitive for Apple to have access to both the analytical data and all of the personal data from your iTunes/Apple ID account. That's a huge advantage for iAds to potentially know that much about a user from the outset. How exactly can something like AdMob truly compete with that?
Only if "the mobile space" (whatever that is) is found to be the relevant market.
Yeah, it's vague, but that's they key thing to identify. Anti-competitive? Against WHO?
To to take the Flash developers as an example:
*Anti-competitive against Flash Developers? Nope, they have a huge and vast target to develop for
*Anti-competitive against Flash Developers for Mobile Devices? Nope, they have the whole other gamut of thousands of devices and dozens of platforms to develop for, not that any of them actually have, you know, full Flash capability...
*Anti-competitive against Flash Developers for iPhone OS? Maybe is as good as you can hope for really.
Is the iPhone the relevant market? Of course not, it encompasses all the other devices for which Flash is allowed (even if it's not possible). All the other guys must be laughing seeing Apple take the hit for banning Flash, when they have effectively banned it silently by not shipping a single product that supports it...
Whatever the competition is, it's wider than what you can do on an iPhone OS device alone.
Um, it's even MORE anti-competitive for Apple to have access to both the analytical data and all of the personal data from your iTunes/Apple ID account. That's a huge advantage for iAds to potentially know that much about a user from the outset. How exactly can something like AdMob truly compete with that?
Because the market in which Apple and Admob compete is not the iPhone. It's Mobile computing devices. And iPhone is not even half of that segment. Admob's ability to compete in across the whole market is not significantly is not detrimentally affected by their inability to use tools and methods which are not allowed on a single portion of that market, and Apple are not abusing any dominant position.
I'm not saying it's not a huge and potentially almost totally dominant position on their own kit, but that that is not proven to be significantly market defining as to affect the consumer materially if they go ahead and operate in this way. Admob can still happily spy on Android users in the same way that Apple might spy on iPhone users.
To understand this administration's seeming interest Apple's move into online advertising, it helps to look at the early, large, and very one-sided donations that Google made to Obama's political campaign-donations on a far greater scale than any other Silicon Valley company. Otherwise, given Google's current domination of online advertising, federal regulators would be delighted to see Google acquire some competition.
In short, if you want to understand politics, follow the money.
Let me understand: Apple is the victim of a conspiracy between the President of the United States and Google?
Is it just me, or is anyone else getting the impression that all of the biggest and most successful companies are getting the shakedown by the government? I think many, if not all of these recent cases will end in fines. Regulators gone wild.
They are following it like the fabled end of the rainbow.
Um, it's even MORE anti-competitive for Apple to have access to both the analytical data and all of the personal data from your iTunes/Apple ID account. That's a huge advantage for iAds to potentially know that much about a user from the outset. How exactly can something like AdMob truly compete with that?
This is a horribly one-sided statement and shows a remarkable ignorance of the workings of paid search, banner ads, re-targeting, et al. The level of information that Google has on you FAR exceeds the data Apple does. Apple has information about your music, video and book habits. Google has information on all of your searching done on google, purchases of anything that involves paid search, banner ad retargeting through DART, any purchases done through google checkout, and the list goes on. Furthermore, google OWNS all of that data and can use it to sell targeted advertising ad infinitum.
Even more interesting is that on PC's there's a semblance of privacy by blocking cookies, multiple users, etc. On mobile devices, the unique identifier of the device is completely accessible to the applications and since typically a single individual uses a phone, the targeting is absolute to an individual (google, yahoo, etc can utilize this).
I am find with Apple being investigated as long as Google's monopoly in this area is investigated too.
Word is already around that the FTC is going to recommend blocking the AdMob deal.
I consider iAds more dangerous than the issue of using Apple's tools only to create apps. While iAds is innovative and would be the first ads I would ever click on instead of ignoring it, this just stinks of anti-competitiveness.
I am one who believes tha eventually Apple will become as dominant Windows was and I can't blame the FTC in, at the very least, making a few calls about this issue. it may still to be too early in the game to do anything about Apple.
I don't understand how Apple is in competition with flash developers. I don't think that allegation has been made.
Simply all of the argument about the clause 3.3.1 (or whatever it is) boils down to people crying "Anticompetitive!" and "Antitrust!" because Apple won't allow cross compilation. That's the allegation. Just because it;'s flat out wrong (in my opinion) doesn't mean it hasn't been made.
Let me understand: Apple is the victim of a conspiracy between the President of the United States and Google?
Is that what you are saying?
For asking that question! Just what we need - yet another conspiracy theory.
And for further titillation, did you know that Bill Gates secretly runs the NSA. The reason why there is no governmental budget for it is because it is wholly funded through the Gates Foundation.
That is soooo much more interesting than Obama siccing the FTC and DOJ on Apple because Schmidt made a phone call and called in a bought political favor.
You are very cavalier in defining the relevant market. It is not an easy question at all.
Ok, what is the market then if not mobile phones and their apps? Apple iPhones and it's apps? A brand can not be a market.
Microsoft was a monopoly not in Windows, but in operating systems- which wouldn't have been a problem if they didn't abuse that position to scrub out competition.
Apple is not forcing devs to not program for Android, Windows mobile or RIM. There is still a lot of choice when it comes to platforms for mobile apps.
Comments
This whole iAd program gives me the creeps.
Do you think Apple will allow ad blocking software on the iPhone and iPad, when Apple itself makes money off the ads?
Will we be able to opt out of being tracked by advertisers?
Will we be warned before we download an app that it includes iAd tracking?
Will paid apps be allowed to shovel ads at us, and track us?
Creepy.
This already happens on the internet in a very pervasive way. Yes, you can decide to block cookies etc but the reality is that a high majority of websites require cookies just to function properly, so it's a catch-22. iApps like Foursquare etc. are even more sinister as it relates to truly being able to target consumers. Most people that use it don't really understand that they are giving everyone access to their whereabouts, etc. (thus my choice of the word sinister) and companies are using that information to target offers to them when they are in the vicinity. One could argue that it's an explicit opt-in and thus the consumer "knows" what they are giving up.
Being "in the business" my goal is to create value to the consumer in such a way that the privacy trade off is worth it. However, I personally significantly limit my own exposure to these situations.
. keep in mind that although Apple is #1 in mobile devices the lead is small.
Apple is nowhere near "#1 in mobile devices".
Why don't you just Google it? Oh, wait...
That would be like googling "Why is the sky colored green?"
Does anyone else wonder if blogs and comments on sites such as these alert FTC staff to possible investigations?
Wading through ignorant posts by laypersons seems to me to be a waste of time, compared to other methods.
Any talk of anti-competitive has to be judged against the competitors in the mobile space.
Only if "the mobile space" (whatever that is) is found to be the relevant market.
Does anyone else wonder if blogs and comments on sites such as these alert FTC staff to possible investigations? I suppose the official story is that their attention is gotten through formal channels, but I suspect that younger, tech savvy staffers might get inspired by comments of ire and outrage posted by adherents of one camp or another. This makes me wonder if some of the Adobe v. Apple postings might be orchestrated for this purpose.
The alert would have been 1) that Adobe has raised the issue direct with the FTC and 2) Apple and Adobe comments have hit the mainstream business press which FTC certainly reads.
In short, if you want to understand politics, follow the money.
The market is mobile phones and apps for mobile phones. And i think we can all agree that Apple does not have a monopoly on mobile phones or apps to go with them.
You are very cavalier in defining the relevant market. It is not an easy question at all.
The only potential issue is analytics, gathering data on the users in order to provide targeted ads. Now this is a 2 sided argument, on the one hand you can say it's bad of Apple to deny access to this data to others and that this is anti-competetive, or you can say that it's good for consumers as it keeps the analytic information within the Apple sphere of influence, and as they already know all about you in the first place it's not really doing you any harm, and it's only keeping your privacy from being compromised by a third party advertiser who you haven't already permitted to know your usage habits.
Um, it's even MORE anti-competitive for Apple to have access to both the analytical data and all of the personal data from your iTunes/Apple ID account. That's a huge advantage for iAds to potentially know that much about a user from the outset. How exactly can something like AdMob truly compete with that?
Only if "the mobile space" (whatever that is) is found to be the relevant market.
Yeah, it's vague, but that's they key thing to identify. Anti-competitive? Against WHO?
To to take the Flash developers as an example:
*Anti-competitive against Flash Developers? Nope, they have a huge and vast target to develop for
*Anti-competitive against Flash Developers for Mobile Devices? Nope, they have the whole other gamut of thousands of devices and dozens of platforms to develop for, not that any of them actually have, you know, full Flash capability...
*Anti-competitive against Flash Developers for iPhone OS? Maybe is as good as you can hope for really.
Is the iPhone the relevant market? Of course not, it encompasses all the other devices for which Flash is allowed (even if it's not possible). All the other guys must be laughing seeing Apple take the hit for banning Flash, when they have effectively banned it silently by not shipping a single product that supports it...
Whatever the competition is, it's wider than what you can do on an iPhone OS device alone.
Um, it's even MORE anti-competitive for Apple to have access to both the analytical data and all of the personal data from your iTunes/Apple ID account. That's a huge advantage for iAds to potentially know that much about a user from the outset. How exactly can something like AdMob truly compete with that?
Because the market in which Apple and Admob compete is not the iPhone. It's Mobile computing devices. And iPhone is not even half of that segment. Admob's ability to compete in across the whole market is not significantly is not detrimentally affected by their inability to use tools and methods which are not allowed on a single portion of that market, and Apple are not abusing any dominant position.
I'm not saying it's not a huge and potentially almost totally dominant position on their own kit, but that that is not proven to be significantly market defining as to affect the consumer materially if they go ahead and operate in this way. Admob can still happily spy on Android users in the same way that Apple might spy on iPhone users.
To understand this administration's seeming interest Apple's move into online advertising, it helps to look at the early, large, and very one-sided donations that Google made to Obama's political campaign-donations on a far greater scale than any other Silicon Valley company. Otherwise, given Google's current domination of online advertising, federal regulators would be delighted to see Google acquire some competition.
In short, if you want to understand politics, follow the money.
Let me understand: Apple is the victim of a conspiracy between the President of the United States and Google?
Is that what you are saying?
Is it just me, or is anyone else getting the impression that all of the biggest and most successful companies are getting the shakedown by the government? I think many, if not all of these recent cases will end in fines. Regulators gone wild.
They are following it like the fabled end of the rainbow.
Yeah, it's vague, but that's they key thing to identify. Anti-competitive? Against WHO?
To to take the Flash developers as an example:
I don't understand how Apple is in competition with flash developers. I don't think that allegation has been made.
Um, it's even MORE anti-competitive for Apple to have access to both the analytical data and all of the personal data from your iTunes/Apple ID account. That's a huge advantage for iAds to potentially know that much about a user from the outset. How exactly can something like AdMob truly compete with that?
This is a horribly one-sided statement and shows a remarkable ignorance of the workings of paid search, banner ads, re-targeting, et al. The level of information that Google has on you FAR exceeds the data Apple does. Apple has information about your music, video and book habits. Google has information on all of your searching done on google, purchases of anything that involves paid search, banner ad retargeting through DART, any purchases done through google checkout, and the list goes on. Furthermore, google OWNS all of that data and can use it to sell targeted advertising ad infinitum.
Even more interesting is that on PC's there's a semblance of privacy by blocking cookies, multiple users, etc. On mobile devices, the unique identifier of the device is completely accessible to the applications and since typically a single individual uses a phone, the targeting is absolute to an individual (google, yahoo, etc can utilize this).
I am find with Apple being investigated as long as Google's monopoly in this area is investigated too.
Word is already around that the FTC is going to recommend blocking the AdMob deal.
I consider iAds more dangerous than the issue of using Apple's tools only to create apps. While iAds is innovative and would be the first ads I would ever click on instead of ignoring it, this just stinks of anti-competitiveness.
I am one who believes tha eventually Apple will become as dominant Windows was and I can't blame the FTC in, at the very least, making a few calls about this issue. it may still to be too early in the game to do anything about Apple.
I don't understand how Apple is in competition with flash developers. I don't think that allegation has been made.
Simply all of the argument about the clause 3.3.1 (or whatever it is) boils down to people crying "Anticompetitive!" and "Antitrust!" because Apple won't allow cross compilation. That's the allegation. Just because it;'s flat out wrong (in my opinion) doesn't mean it hasn't been made.
Let me understand: Apple is the victim of a conspiracy between the President of the United States and Google?
Is that what you are saying?
For asking that question! Just what we need - yet another conspiracy theory.
And for further titillation, did you know that Bill Gates secretly runs the NSA. The reason why there is no governmental budget for it is because it is wholly funded through the Gates Foundation.
That is soooo much more interesting than Obama siccing the FTC and DOJ on Apple because Schmidt made a phone call and called in a bought political favor.
You are very cavalier in defining the relevant market. It is not an easy question at all.
Ok, what is the market then if not mobile phones and their apps? Apple iPhones and it's apps? A brand can not be a market.
Microsoft was a monopoly not in Windows, but in operating systems- which wouldn't have been a problem if they didn't abuse that position to scrub out competition.
Apple is not forcing devs to not program for Android, Windows mobile or RIM. There is still a lot of choice when it comes to platforms for mobile apps.