Lost property is lost property - there is no indication that the person who picked up the phone in the bar stole it from the person who left it behind.
No stolen property - no crime committed.
The only crime here was illegal search and seizure by the police. Jason Chen/Gizmodo has had their fundamental Constitutionally guaranteed rights violated.
But this should come as no surprise - very little of what the government does today is Constitutionally legal, and California is even worse than the Feds in that regard. The founding father's must be turning over in their grave.
Lost property is lost property - there is no indication that the person who picked up the phone in the bar stole it from the person who left it behind.
No stolen property - no crime committed.
The only crime here was illegal search and seizure by the police. Jason Chen/Gizmodo has had their fundamental Constitutionally guaranteed rights violated.
But this should come as no surprise - very little of what the government does today is Constitutionally legal, and California is even worse than the Feds in that regard. The founding father's must be turning over in their grave.
go back and read up on the story and how california law about found items work.
Lost property is lost property - there is no indication that the person who picked up the phone in the bar stole it from the person who left it behind.
No stolen property - no crime committed.
The only crime here was illegal search and seizure by the police. Jason Chen/Gizmodo has had their fundamental Constitutionally guaranteed rights violated.
But this should come as no surprise - very little of what the government does today is Constitutionally legal, and California is even worse than the Feds in that regard. The founding father's must be turning over in their grave.
What are you talking about? Do you think the Apple engineer just gave it to them? If you drop something you don't lose ownership of it... If it is worth at least $5000, then it is a felony crime. Since Gizmodo paid $5000 for it, they crossed the threshold. How would you feel if you dropped your phone and someone took it instead of returning it to lost and found?
Issue here is your biased view of the situation by starting you comments with "Gizmodo committed a Grime" I not sure and maybe I missed a couple of days, but has that been proven already?
I like Apple, but I enjoy more that laws are used in proper fashion and if abused, everyone should know, so we know our rights in future.
If you live in Mumbai, how can this issue possibly apply to you and why are you concerned?
Yes, absolutely I want Apple to request that law enforcement act. I even think Apple is obliged to do this on behalf of its shareholders like you and me. No question there.
My concern is that Apple may have used its power to bend the rules for its benefit. I don't like Gizmodo and my retirement depends on Apple, but nevertheless I want them both to play by the same rules of the game. I don't want the game to be tilted towards any billion dollar corporation just cause they're rich.
That said, this AI article does imply that the court may have bent the rules on Apple's request, but over on CNET there's another story that implies the rules may have been bent on request of the 21 year old Finder's criminal defense attorney. I hope that is the case. I want Apple to win fair and square and I want Gizmodo to be punished no worse or better than anyone else (assuming they're convicted of their role in grand theft).
You sound like an idealist. I'm more of a realist in these matters. Money does make a difference and having friends in law enforcement and government helps, no question.
The only crime here was illegal search and seizure by the police. Jason Chen/Gizmodo has had their fundamental Constitutionally guaranteed rights violated.
Where's the proof? All evidence points to an illegal act committed. Where's the evidence otherwise, other than your opinion?
Exactly. I actually love the idea of releasing the details so the media can see that the warrant was not about this blogs alleged shield rights or Apple being peeved about the leak but about Gawker's site committing a criminal (and as I recall felony) act. Just like the one they attempted in January over the ipad.
Giz f'd up by bragging that they had the phone and that they paid for it. Then they dragged some Apple employee through the mud. At the very least, I hope the whole of Gawker loses their access and their ads over this. Not just from Apple but from all tech (and then some). Would serve them right
There's no proof that Apple was involved
Also for the raid to be illegal it would have to
1. Lack of a properly signed warrant. no worries there they have one
2. violate conditions of the warrant as allowed by law, such as the time, lack of presence at the location, items that could be taken. highly doubt that anyone would be that stupid
3. violate shield laws. as this is about finding the details of the partner to a crime as well as exactly what Chen and Gizmodo's involvement was, shield laws don't apply. Said laws don't protect you when you commit, and confess, to a criminal act
This dead horse again?
Really?
The affidavit has not been released in it's customary ten days which already is bound to make anyone curious who is in the know of the way these situations usually play out and it's back to "giz f'd up"?
If apple utilized undue influence to have the law bypassed in their favor in an attempt to witch hunt out leaks, they would have been complicit in an illegal search and seizure, which is against "the law".
The way this will more than likely play out is the task force will return all chen's machines, no one will know if they actually searched them or not and will have to take their word for it, and all charges will be dropped with "Giz" being found protected by the shield law.
Either way they take a hit, but one hurts less than the other.
Apple's gotta eat, too... But seriously, if someone stole something of yours and you knew who they were, wouldn't you want law enforcement to act on the information?
They went after the wrong guy. They should have used mobile me and GPS located it and arrested the first guy that refused to give it back. Instead they waited till a journalist got a hold of it and then initiated skull drudgery to enact a raid to get more information than what was released about their phone.
Aha. Just as I speculated. This is going to get worse for Apple before it gets better. The media will close ranks around Gizmodo (and they are probably right to do that).
Whether it is DeGeneris, or SJ's health, or the options backdating or now this, Apple really needs to get its PR act together in a serious way. They appear to be tone deaf on that front. (When Jon Stewart, an Apple-lover calls you an 'apphole' and suggests that Microsoft is less evil than you are, there's a really serious problem with how the public perceives you; see this hilarious video at http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...-2010/appholes).
It is not just a question of 'right' and 'wrong' at this level. Apple is acting remarkably childishly and foolishly for a $230+B company.
You forgot the mention the judge, the DA, and every police officer who participated in the raid. They all committed the crime because they used the law to legally get search warrant signed by a judge. They should all go to jail. On the other hand, the person who sold the STOLEN iPhone, based on CA law, and the person who bought the STOLEN iphone should get a free pass
The law isn't that cut and dry my friend and always up to interpretation, which is why we have attorneys, judges, and a supreme court.
Puh-leeaaze! The media are supporting Gawker because they have a dog in this fight: their standing as journalists. What? You'd expect them to be objective? They'll trash Apple and they'll make Apple look like the bad guy because they're threatened by this apparently, or is that alleged, felony committed by Gizmodo. They'll attempt to try this case in the media and it looks like they might have turned public opinion against Apple but Apple will continue to sell their products and the stock will continue an upward trajectory. A bit of a prediction: Apple will prevail against Gawker and people will still be pissed at them, because the media will portray it as rigged, or the court was wrong, etc.
The way this will more than likely play out is the task force will return all chen's machines, no one will know if they actually searched them or not and will have to take their word for it, and all charges will be dropped with "Giz" being found protected by the shield law.
Either way they take a hit, but one hurts less than the other.
No charges were filed yet. As of now this is an investigation.
The law isn't that cut and dry my friend and always up to interpretation, which is why we have attorneys, judges, and a supreme court.
This is the California Code - Section 485 word by word:
"One who finds lost property under circumstances which give him knowledge of or means of inquiry as to the true owner, and who appropriates such property to his own use, or to the use of another person not entitled thereto, without first making reasonable and just efforts to find the owner and to restore the property to him, is guilty of theft."
It can't get clearer than that.
The only thing in question is whether the finders efforts were reasonable and just, which he admitted he could have done more.
Aha. Just as I speculated. This is going to get worse for Apple before it gets better. The media will close ranks around Gizmodo (and they are probably right to do that).
Whether it is DeGeneris, or SJ's health, or the options backdating or now this, Apple really needs to get its PR act together in a serious way. They appear to be tone deaf on that front. (When Jon Stewart, an Apple-lover calls you an 'apphole' and suggests that Microsoft is less evil than you are, there's a really serious problem with how the public perceives you; see this hilarious video at http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...-2010/appholes).
It is not just a question of 'right' and 'wrong' at this level. Apple is acting remarkably childishly and foolishly for a $230+B company.
JizzMoto is going down on this one kids, no two ways about it. Even if the cops don't prosecute, JizzMoto is not going to prevail in any way, shape or form. The legal reasons have been spelled out ad nauseum.
calling Jizmodo a news org is really funny. Jason Chen and them were all glowing and acting bad-ass, bragging. even appearing on his own video to reveal his ugly face.
True dat. If I were that hideous, the last thing that I would want would be to star in a video that will get millions of views.
This is one of the things that is wrong with media today.
Gizmodo committed a crime. Why are the other media outlets sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. Let the police do their jobs. If Gizmodo prevails in court, they can sue at that point.
Comments
No stolen property - no crime committed.
The only crime here was illegal search and seizure by the police. Jason Chen/Gizmodo has had their fundamental Constitutionally guaranteed rights violated.
But this should come as no surprise - very little of what the government does today is Constitutionally legal, and California is even worse than the Feds in that regard. The founding father's must be turning over in their grave.
Lost property is lost property - there is no indication that the person who picked up the phone in the bar stole it from the person who left it behind.
No stolen property - no crime committed.
The only crime here was illegal search and seizure by the police. Jason Chen/Gizmodo has had their fundamental Constitutionally guaranteed rights violated.
But this should come as no surprise - very little of what the government does today is Constitutionally legal, and California is even worse than the Feds in that regard. The founding father's must be turning over in their grave.
go back and read up on the story and how california law about found items work.
Lost property is lost property - there is no indication that the person who picked up the phone in the bar stole it from the person who left it behind.
No stolen property - no crime committed.
The only crime here was illegal search and seizure by the police. Jason Chen/Gizmodo has had their fundamental Constitutionally guaranteed rights violated.
But this should come as no surprise - very little of what the government does today is Constitutionally legal, and California is even worse than the Feds in that regard. The founding father's must be turning over in their grave.
What are you talking about? Do you think the Apple engineer just gave it to them? If you drop something you don't lose ownership of it... If it is worth at least $5000, then it is a felony crime. Since Gizmodo paid $5000 for it, they crossed the threshold. How would you feel if you dropped your phone and someone took it instead of returning it to lost and found?
Issue here is your biased view of the situation by starting you comments with "Gizmodo committed a Grime" I not sure and maybe I missed a couple of days, but has that been proven already?
I like Apple, but I enjoy more that laws are used in proper fashion and if abused, everyone should know, so we know our rights in future.
If you live in Mumbai, how can this issue possibly apply to you and why are you concerned?
Yes, absolutely I want Apple to request that law enforcement act. I even think Apple is obliged to do this on behalf of its shareholders like you and me. No question there.
My concern is that Apple may have used its power to bend the rules for its benefit. I don't like Gizmodo and my retirement depends on Apple, but nevertheless I want them both to play by the same rules of the game. I don't want the game to be tilted towards any billion dollar corporation just cause they're rich.
That said, this AI article does imply that the court may have bent the rules on Apple's request, but over on CNET there's another story that implies the rules may have been bent on request of the 21 year old Finder's criminal defense attorney. I hope that is the case. I want Apple to win fair and square and I want Gizmodo to be punished no worse or better than anyone else (assuming they're convicted of their role in grand theft).
You sound like an idealist. I'm more of a realist in these matters. Money does make a difference and having friends in law enforcement and government helps, no question.
No stolen property - no crime committed.
The only crime here was illegal search and seizure by the police. Jason Chen/Gizmodo has had their fundamental Constitutionally guaranteed rights violated.
Where's the proof? All evidence points to an illegal act committed. Where's the evidence otherwise, other than your opinion?
Exactly. I actually love the idea of releasing the details so the media can see that the warrant was not about this blogs alleged shield rights or Apple being peeved about the leak but about Gawker's site committing a criminal (and as I recall felony) act. Just like the one they attempted in January over the ipad.
Giz f'd up by bragging that they had the phone and that they paid for it. Then they dragged some Apple employee through the mud. At the very least, I hope the whole of Gawker loses their access and their ads over this. Not just from Apple but from all tech (and then some). Would serve them right
There's no proof that Apple was involved
Also for the raid to be illegal it would have to
1. Lack of a properly signed warrant. no worries there they have one
2. violate conditions of the warrant as allowed by law, such as the time, lack of presence at the location, items that could be taken. highly doubt that anyone would be that stupid
3. violate shield laws. as this is about finding the details of the partner to a crime as well as exactly what Chen and Gizmodo's involvement was, shield laws don't apply. Said laws don't protect you when you commit, and confess, to a criminal act
This dead horse again?
Really?
The affidavit has not been released in it's customary ten days which already is bound to make anyone curious who is in the know of the way these situations usually play out and it's back to "giz f'd up"?
If apple utilized undue influence to have the law bypassed in their favor in an attempt to witch hunt out leaks, they would have been complicit in an illegal search and seizure, which is against "the law".
The way this will more than likely play out is the task force will return all chen's machines, no one will know if they actually searched them or not and will have to take their word for it, and all charges will be dropped with "Giz" being found protected by the shield law.
Either way they take a hit, but one hurts less than the other.
Apple did not conduct a raid, legal or illegal. Check yourself before you riggety-wreck yourself.
Please re read what was written.
Apple's gotta eat, too... But seriously, if someone stole something of yours and you knew who they were, wouldn't you want law enforcement to act on the information?
They went after the wrong guy. They should have used mobile me and GPS located it and arrested the first guy that refused to give it back. Instead they waited till a journalist got a hold of it and then initiated skull drudgery to enact a raid to get more information than what was released about their phone.
Aha. Just as I speculated. This is going to get worse for Apple before it gets better. The media will close ranks around Gizmodo (and they are probably right to do that).
Whether it is DeGeneris, or SJ's health, or the options backdating or now this, Apple really needs to get its PR act together in a serious way. They appear to be tone deaf on that front. (When Jon Stewart, an Apple-lover calls you an 'apphole' and suggests that Microsoft is less evil than you are, there's a really serious problem with how the public perceives you; see this hilarious video at http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...-2010/appholes).
It is not just a question of 'right' and 'wrong' at this level. Apple is acting remarkably childishly and foolishly for a $230+B company.
Exactly.
You forgot the mention the judge, the DA, and every police officer who participated in the raid. They all committed the crime because they used the law to legally get search warrant signed by a judge. They should all go to jail. On the other hand, the person who sold the STOLEN iPhone, based on CA law, and the person who bought the STOLEN iphone should get a free pass
The law isn't that cut and dry my friend and always up to interpretation, which is why we have attorneys, judges, and a supreme court.
Puh-leeaaze! The media are supporting Gawker because they have a dog in this fight: their standing as journalists. What? You'd expect them to be objective? They'll trash Apple and they'll make Apple look like the bad guy because they're threatened by this apparently, or is that alleged, felony committed by Gizmodo. They'll attempt to try this case in the media and it looks like they might have turned public opinion against Apple but Apple will continue to sell their products and the stock will continue an upward trajectory. A bit of a prediction: Apple will prevail against Gawker and people will still be pissed at them, because the media will portray it as rigged, or the court was wrong, etc.
It won't make it to court.
....
The way this will more than likely play out is the task force will return all chen's machines, no one will know if they actually searched them or not and will have to take their word for it, and all charges will be dropped with "Giz" being found protected by the shield law.
Either way they take a hit, but one hurts less than the other.
No charges were filed yet. As of now this is an investigation.
The law isn't that cut and dry my friend and always up to interpretation, which is why we have attorneys, judges, and a supreme court.
This is the California Code - Section 485 word by word:
"One who finds lost property under circumstances which give him knowledge of or means of inquiry as to the true owner, and who appropriates such property to his own use, or to the use of another person not entitled thereto, without first making reasonable and just efforts to find the owner and to restore the property to him, is guilty of theft."
It can't get clearer than that.
The only thing in question is whether the finders efforts were reasonable and just, which he admitted he could have done more.
Aha. Just as I speculated. This is going to get worse for Apple before it gets better. The media will close ranks around Gizmodo (and they are probably right to do that).
Whether it is DeGeneris, or SJ's health, or the options backdating or now this, Apple really needs to get its PR act together in a serious way. They appear to be tone deaf on that front. (When Jon Stewart, an Apple-lover calls you an 'apphole' and suggests that Microsoft is less evil than you are, there's a really serious problem with how the public perceives you; see this hilarious video at http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...-2010/appholes).
It is not just a question of 'right' and 'wrong' at this level. Apple is acting remarkably childishly and foolishly for a $230+B company.
Couldn't agree more.
calling Jizmodo a news org is really funny. Jason Chen and them were all glowing and acting bad-ass, bragging. even appearing on his own video to reveal his ugly face.
True dat. If I were that hideous, the last thing that I would want would be to star in a video that will get millions of views.
Apple did not conduct a raid, legal or illegal. Check yourself before you riggety-wreck yourself.
Wth??
This is one of the things that is wrong with media today.
Gizmodo committed a crime. Why are the other media outlets sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. Let the police do their jobs. If Gizmodo prevails in court, they can sue at that point.
Nice strawman.