Prosecution seeks to protect informant in Gizmodo iPhone case

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 77
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GregoryHarbin View Post


    Sounds like a lot of people are making a lot of noise based on rumor, speculation, and leaks of uncertain origin.



    Everyone just calm down and wait for this to actually go to court.



    Good thing we are discussing it on a rumours site then.
  • Reply 22 of 77
    thomprthompr Posts: 1,521member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SteveLV702 View Post


    Better get used to Orange? you aware if this is first offense he would probably get 30 days (suspended) and 3 years probation.. So probably would not spend a single day in jail. He would probably get arrested go in front of judge get bailed set and then get bailed out..



    That depends on how many charges he gets laid up on. There's receiving stolen goods, but there's also potential corporate espionage.



    Thompson
  • Reply 23 of 77
    stonefreestonefree Posts: 242member
    Chen should hope that prosecutors are as lenient on him as they were him Jobs on his illegal back dating of stocks.
  • Reply 24 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stonefree View Post


    Chen should hope that prosecutors are as lenient on him as they were him Jobs on his illegal back dating of stocks.



    Well, a cursory glance shows me that Apple had to pay $14 million in a civil settlement over the backdating issue, and the CFO in charge was fired.



    So, fine Chen $14 million dollars, and have him fired from Gawker? That's probably rougher than I'd be if I were a prosecutor?
  • Reply 25 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    What a foolish response.



    Just because an employee misplaced an item doesn't give someone to take it and sell it to the highest bidder. That's why the law specifically states what you are required to do with found items.



    The guy who found it called Apple support and they said it wasn't theirs or they didn't want it. Now the Support aren't trained for things like this but what is the finder supposed to do? Would you turn down 5k for somethings thats clearly not stolen but found, and the owners said they didn't want it? Its a $200 prototype phone, not some million-dollar secret WMD. The only bad press Apple got from this was that the guy is getting prosecuted. If he wasn't it may of even seemed like Apple set it up to hype up iPhone 4. Apple is not "victimized" it was their fault for loosing the phone in the first place, then not taking it back.
  • Reply 26 of 77
    stonefreestonefree Posts: 242member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GregoryHarbin View Post


    Well, a cursory glance shows me that Apple had to pay $14 million in a civil settlement over the backdating issue, and the CFO in charge was fired.



    So, fine Chen $14 million dollars, and have him fired from Gawker? That's probably rougher than I'd be if I were a prosecutor?



    $14 M is about 0.05% of Apple's cash. It would be like if any of us were fined $100. The CFO was fired but Jobs, who was the sole beneficiary of the situation, escaped unscated. So I'd call that lenient.
  • Reply 27 of 77
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ogmudbone View Post


    The guy who found it called Apple support and they said it wasn't theirs or they didn't want it. Now the Support aren't trained for things like this but what is the finder supposed to do? Would you turn down 5k for somethings thats clearly not stolen but found, and the owners said they didn't want it? Its a $200 prototype phone, not some million-dollar secret WMD. The only bad press Apple got from this was that the guy is getting prosecuted. If he wasn't it may of even seemed like Apple set it up to hype up iPhone 4. Apple is not "victimized" it was their fault for loosing the phone in the first place, then not taking it back.



    Please don't bother to comment if you don't know the facts.



    1) What you are say about the person who found it trying to call Apple just isn't true at all. Look it up.



    2) You also don't know anything about law and trot out that old (inaccurate) saw about there being a difference between "found" and "stolen." Again, not true at all. Look it up.



    3) You have it exactly backwards when you say it's a "$200" phone and not a multi-million dollar secret. It *is* a multi-million dollar secret by definition. Again, look it up.



    4) Apple has never, ever "leaked" things like this for the purposes of "hyping things up,"in fact they take great care to do the exact reverse of that and always have.



    It's like you come from some bizarro world where the exact opposite of the truth is believed to be true. All these facts are readily available with a simple Google search and you got every one of them completely wrong and absolutely backwards.



    From this I conclude you are either purposely lying, or simply a little kid who likes to spout off on stuff he doesn't know anything about and doesn't bother to find out anything about before he spouts off.
  • Reply 28 of 77
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    I witnessed video's and posts on a webpage of people who stated they paid money for an object considered stolen property under Californian law.



    No rumor, no speculation just an easily verifiable fact.
  • Reply 29 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Please don't bother to comment if you don't know the facts.



    1) What you are say about the person who found it trying to call Apple just isn't true at all. Look it up.



    2) You also don't know anything about law and trot out that old (inaccurate) saw about there being a difference between "found" and "stolen." Again, not true at all. Look it up.



    3) You have it exactly backwards when you say it's a "$200" phone and not a multi-million dollar secret. It *is* a multi-million dollar secret by definition. Again, look it up.



    4) Apple has never, ever "leaked" things like this for the purposes of "hyping things up,"in fact they take great care to do the exact reverse of that and always have.



    It's like you come from some bizarro world where the exact opposite of the truth is believed to be true. All these facts are readily available with a simple Google search and you got every one of them completely wrong and absolutely backwards.



    From this I conclude you are either purposely lying, or simply a little kid who likes to spout off on stuff he doesn't know anything about and doesn't bother to find out anything about before he spouts off.



    Well there are so many rumors its hard to even tell whats true and whats not. But I think its Apple's responsibility to protect their million dollar secrets, not drop them in a bar for whoever to find. All the guy did was sell a couple hundred $ of stolen property, any other implications were a direct result of the Apple employ who left the million dollar secret in a bar. I don't think the guy is going to Jail hes probably just has to pay a fine. IMO the best thing Apple can do right now is apologize to the guy who got his house raided over a phone, to neutralize the slew of bad press they've been getting recently including their ridiculous incident with Ellen DeGeneres, and bad press from the Daily Show. And BTW simply correcting me is fine, resorting to insults on an internet forum is actually very childish of you.
  • Reply 30 of 77
    cycomikocycomiko Posts: 716member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    I'm definitely frothing at the mouth to see this guy, and the publication, go down, HARD! Sigh, I don't think it will happen, either. The discussion about this issue has nothing to do with the merits of the law, and everything to do with whether people like Apple or hate them. The same goes for all of the other hot button issues around here.



    No one likes Flash, but look how many fans it has attracted since Apple came out publicly against it. No one thinks Nokia has a legitimate gripe against Apple, but look at the number of people who are happy for the law suit. Everyone knows that HTC is infringing on Apple's IP, yet look at how many people there are who think that Apple should not have the right to protect any of their innovations. Everyone knows that, according to the local law, this prototype was stolen and Giz knowingly purchased stolen goods. Even with Giz bragging about the fact that they are not journalists, look at the number of people who want Chen to be protected and for Apple to get in trouble even though they were victimized. None of these are honest discussion on the merits of the issues. They are all polemics on Apple: love em' or hate em".



    this is like the most comical presentation of an iFan yet. It's fantastic.
  • Reply 31 of 77
    esummersesummers Posts: 953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


    The media/EFF bloodhounds can bite the big one for all I care. They want the media exposure and anyone-be-dam**d for the sake of getting the next tabloid story and making a name for themselves.



    I really think that in the end, Chen will get a slap on the wrist but not before they make him curl up in the shower in the fetal position crying for his mommy.



    To me, the phone was stolen. There are those anarchists out there that believe otherwise but I'm all for Chen / Gizmodo being made an example of when dealing with (possibly) stolen property.



    Is the EFF still involved? This is clearly a case of theft.
  • Reply 32 of 77
    justbobfjustbobf Posts: 261member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    before he knowingly, and publicly purchased stolen property,



    From what I remember, he didn't purchase "stolen" property. The property was "lost." I think there is a difference here...
  • Reply 33 of 77
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Section 485 of the California Penal code:-



    "One who finds lost property under circumstances which give him

    knowledge of or means of inquiry as to the true owner, and who

    appropriates such property to his own use, or to the use of another

    person not entitled thereto, without first making reasonable and just

    efforts to find the owner and to restore the property to him, is

    guilty of theft"






    Source



    Section 496 of the California Penal code:-



    "(a) Every person who buys or receives any property that has

    been stolen or that has been obtained in any manner constituting

    theft or extortion, knowing the property to be so stolen or obtained,

    or who conceals, sells, withholds, or aids in concealing, selling,

    or withholding any property from the owner, knowing the property to

    be so stolen or obtained, shall be punished by imprisonment in a

    state prison, or in a county jail for not more than one year.

    However, if the district attorney or the grand jury determines that

    this action would be in the interests of justice, the district

    attorney or the grand jury, as the case may be, may, if the value of

    the property does not exceed nine hundred fifty dollars ($950),

    specify in the accusatory pleading that the offense shall be a

    misdemeanor, punishable only by imprisonment in a county jail not

    exceeding one year.

    A principal in the actual theft of the property may be convicted

    pursuant to this section. However, no person may be convicted both

    pursuant to this section and of the theft of the same property.

    (b) Every swap meet vendor, as defined in Section 21661 of the

    Business and Professions Code, and every person whose principal

    business is dealing in, or collecting, merchandise or personal

    property, and every agent, employee, or representative of that

    person, who buys or receives any property of a value in excess of

    nine hundred fifty dollars ($950) that has been stolen or obtained in

    any manner constituting theft or extortion, under circumstances that

    should cause the person, agent, employee, or representative to make

    reasonable inquiry to ascertain that the person from whom the

    property was bought or received had the legal right to sell or

    deliver it, without making a reasonable inquiry, shall be punished by

    imprisonment in a state prison, or in a county jail for not more

    than one year.

    Every swap meet vendor, as defined in Section 21661 of the

    Business and Professions Code, and every person whose principal

    business is dealing in, or collecting, merchandise or personal

    property, and every agent, employee, or representative of that

    person, who buys or receives any property of a value of nine hundred

    fifty dollars ($950) or less that has been stolen or obtained in any

    manner constituting theft or extortion, under circumstances that

    should cause the person, agent, employee, or representative to make

    reasonable inquiry to ascertain that the person from whom the

    property was bought or received had the legal right to sell or

    deliver it, without making a reasonable inquiry, shall be guilty of a

    misdemeanor.

    (c) Any person who has been injured by a violation of subdivision

    (a) or (b) may bring an action for three times the amount of actual

    damages, if any, sustained by the plaintiff, costs of suit, and

    reasonable attorney's fees.

    (d) Notwithstanding Section 664, any attempt to commit any act

    prohibited by this section, except an offense specified in the

    accusatory pleading as a misdemeanor, is punishable by imprisonment

    in the state prison, or in a county jail for not more than one year."




    Source



    OK, seems pretty clear to me, now grab the tar and pitchforks and follow me, whoohoo, weez gunna have us a good ol' fashioned lynchin'!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justbobf View Post


    From what I remember, he didn't purchase "stolen" property. The property was "lost." I think there is a difference here...



  • Reply 34 of 77
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,065member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ogmudbone View Post


    Well there are so many rumors its hard to even tell whats true and whats not. But I think its Apple's responsibility to protect their million dollar secrets, not drop them in a bar for whoever to find. All the guy did was sell a couple hundred $ of stolen property, any other implications were a direct result of the Apple employ who left the million dollar secret in a bar. I don't think the guy is going to Jail hes probably just has to pay a fine. IMO the best thing Apple can do right now is apologize to the guy who got his house raided over a phone, to neutralize the slew of bad press they've been getting recently including their ridiculous incident with Ellen DeGeneres, and bad press from the Daily Show. And BTW simply correcting me is fine, resorting to insults on an internet forum is actually very childish of you.



    i have to disagree. if i find something that belongs to someone--like their phone--i'd try to return it to them, not attempt to sell it to a 'news' site for several grand.



    the act of selling it alone tells you either this guy knew exactly what he had or he has a really screwed up sense of the difference between right and wrong.



    if i couldn't get a hold of the owner, i would have left it at the bar. hell, even if apple support didn't want it, i would have packaged the thing up and returned it to apple.



    regardless of the outcome, these guys made their choices and now have to deal with the consequences. life isn't like 'reality' t.v.
  • Reply 35 of 77
    souliisoulsouliisoul Posts: 827member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ogmudbone View Post


    Well there are so many rumors its hard to even tell whats true and whats not. But I think its Apple's responsibility to protect their million dollar secrets, not drop them in a bar for whoever to find. All the guy did was sell a couple hundred $ of stolen property, any other implications were a direct result of the Apple employ who left the million dollar secret in a bar. I don't think the guy is going to Jail hes probably just has to pay a fine. IMO the best thing Apple can do right now is apologize to the guy who got his house raided over a phone, to neutralize the slew of bad press they've been getting recently including their ridiculous incident with Ellen DeGeneres, and bad press from the Daily Show. And BTW simply correcting me is fine, resorting to insults on an internet forum is actually very childish of you.



    Your original comments were totally off-base according to majority of information available, but I do agree the comments below are very childish. You can point out someone is factual incorrect, but no need for kindergarden behavior, no need!



    Everyone is allowed to comment, it is responsible of other people to provide their opinions/facts to correct that person in constructive, proactive manner, that allows all of us to debate in a civilized fashion. Unfortunately the world is not like that for many people.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Please don't bother to comment if you don't know the facts.



    1) What you are say about the person who found it trying to call Apple just isn't true at all. Look it up.



    2) You also don't know anything about law and trot out that old (inaccurate) saw about there being a difference between "found" and "stolen." Again, not true at all. Look it up.



    3) You have it exactly backwards when you say it's a "$200" phone and not a multi-million dollar secret. It *is* a multi-million dollar secret by definition. Again, look it up.



    4) Apple has never, ever "leaked" things like this for the purposes of "hyping things up,"in fact they take great care to do the exact reverse of that and always have.



    It's like you come from some bizarro world where the exact opposite of the truth is believed to be true. All these facts are readily available with a simple Google search and you got every one of them completely wrong and absolutely backwards.



    From this I conclude you are either purposely lying, or simply a little kid who likes to spout off on stuff he doesn't know anything about and doesn't bother to find out anything about before he spouts off.



  • Reply 36 of 77
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    In this case, the "facts" provided by Giz are enough to convict themselves.



    You are wrong, so situation normal.



    This will never go to trial and there will be no charges brought against Chen.
  • Reply 37 of 77
    ouraganouragan Posts: 437member
    Quote:

    Prosecutors investigating the case of the iPhone prototype that was sold to Gizmodo last month have filed an argument that says details of the search must be kept sealed to protect the identity of an informant who confidentially participated in the investigation.



    A report by Wired says the filing "is the first indication that police cultivated an inside source prior to raiding the home of Gizmodo editor Jason Chen."







    Are they trying to cover up the identity of Steve Jobs who alerted police as soon as he read the report published by Gizmodo? In this case, Steve Jobs doesn't want us to know that he is an avid reader of rumor sites!





  • Reply 38 of 77
    boeyc15boeyc15 Posts: 986member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ogmudbone View Post


    Well there are so many rumors its hard to even tell whats true and whats not. But I think its Apple's responsibility to protect their million dollar secrets, not drop them in a bar for whoever to find. All the guy did was sell a couple hundred $ of stolen property, any other implications were a direct result of the Apple employ who left the million dollar secret in a bar. I don't think the guy is going to Jail hes probably just has to pay a fine. IMO the best thing Apple can do right now is apologize to the guy who got his house raided over a phone, to neutralize the slew of bad press they've been getting recently.....



    Prototype chips cases etc are not worth 'a couple hundred dollars', but obviously much more. Apple does not give a hoot what Ellen thinks. It does care about keeping it's plans from HTC, Nokia, etc as long as possible. As Apple is an American company, employing American enginners etc, I fully support that. Apple did not conduct the search.

    Your statements are inaccurate, contradictory and make no sense.

    Please stop.
  • Reply 39 of 77
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ogmudbone View Post


    Well there are so many rumors its hard to even tell whats true and whats not. But I think its Apple's responsibility to protect their million dollar secrets, not drop them in a bar for whoever to find. All the guy did was sell a couple hundred $ of stolen property, any other implications were a direct result of the Apple employ who left the million dollar secret in a bar. I don't think the guy is going to Jail hes probably just has to pay a fine. IMO the best thing Apple can do right now is apologize to the guy who got his house raided over a phone, to neutralize the slew of bad press they've been getting recently including their ridiculous incident with Ellen DeGeneres, and bad press from the Daily Show. And BTW simply correcting me is fine, resorting to insults on an internet forum is actually very childish of you.



    After taking a look at your other posts since joining this form on 05-02-2010 it is clear you are a typical Apple hater who joined an Apple centric forum just to spout FUD. You are even using the talking points being spread around by your colleagues, specifically the "Apple should apologize" and the "bad press" mantras. This is textbook FUD. In light of your posting trail it would be interesting to know why you chose AppleInsider but you are probably on other Apple sites using different sock puppets. Bottom line, you are way to obvious, a rookie perhaps. That's why your age was questioned.
  • Reply 40 of 77
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ogmudbone View Post


    The guy who found it called Apple support and they said it wasn't theirs or they didn't want it. Now the Support aren't trained for things like this but what is the finder supposed to do? Would you turn down 5k for somethings thats clearly not stolen but found, and the owners said they didn't want it? Its a $200 prototype phone, not some million-dollar secret WMD. The only bad press Apple got from this was that the guy is getting prosecuted. If he wasn't it may of even seemed like Apple set it up to hype up iPhone 4. Apple is not "victimized" it was their fault for loosing the phone in the first place, then not taking it back.



    Completely wrong. They guy who found it said (in his public interview) that he did NOT try to call Apple. He had a friend who said he'd do it - but there's no evidence that he actually followed through. More importantly, that's not a legitimate attempt to return it. If he were really interested in returning it, he could have:

    - call the guy who lost it at Apple - he knew his name

    - answered the phone when it rang that night - since anyone calling would probably be the owner or a friend of the owner

    - looked through the phone numbers for one called 'mom' or 'office' and left a message

    - sent a message to the guy's Facebook account

    - Call Apple HQ

    - turn it over to the police

    - turn it over to the bartender or bar manager

    - call Apple legal

    - call Apple R&D

    - Drop it off at Apple HQ

    - Mail it to Apple HQ

    Instead, he made ZERO effort to return it. His friend MIGHT HAVE called AppleCare - which is the stupidest thing in the world to do. They are there to solve technical problems. If you called and said "I found a lost iPhone", no one would expect them to be able to return it to the owner.



    You keep saying it wasn't stolen. Please familiarize yourself with the law in CA and, AFAIK, every state in the country. It WAS stolen by law.



    There's no evidence that the rightful owner said that they didn't want it. AT BEST, some support drone might have said he didn't know what to do with it so don't return it to him. That's not the same as the owner saying he didn't want it.



    Your values are backwards. It IS a multimillion dollar phone. its early release is going to cost Apple a lot of sales and also give Apple's competition a several month head start. Prototypes are VERY valuable - especially Apple prototypes which are normally veiled in secrecy. Claiming it was worth only $200 is absurd - especially when the guy was paid $5 K for it.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ogmudbone View Post


    Well there are so many rumors its hard to even tell whats true and whats not. But I think its Apple's responsibility to protect their million dollar secrets, not drop them in a bar for whoever to find. All the guy did was sell a couple hundred $ of stolen property, any other implications were a direct result of the Apple employ who left the million dollar secret in a bar. I don't think the guy is going to Jail hes probably just has to pay a fine. IMO the best thing Apple can do right now is apologize to the guy who got his house raided over a phone, to neutralize the slew of bad press they've been getting recently including their ridiculous incident with Ellen DeGeneres, and bad press from the Daily Show. And BTW simply correcting me is fine, resorting to insults on an internet forum is actually very childish of you.



    There are rumors, but there are also direct quotes from people involved. You are inaccurately reporting almost all the facts as they are currently known.



    You keep stating that it's Apple's fault for leaving it in a bar. That's not correct. The law very clearly understands that people make mistakes and things get lost. BUT THE FINDER HAS AN OBLIGATION TO ATTEMPT TO RETURN THEM - which did not happen in this case.



    Why would Apple apologize to Chen? Chen admitted to having paid for stolen property and Apple reported a stolen phone to the police. The police were doing their job to get a search warrant (you left that part out) and raid the house. If Chen didn't want his house raided, he shouldn't buy stolen property.



    DeGeneres is a different issue and adding it in simply confuses things. The problem in Ellen's case is that she made something that looked exactly like an Apple commercial. Apple must legally defend its trademarks - and her misuse of the Apple trademark could weaken the brand. Given that the Apple brand is currently worth something like $100 BILLION, Apple has a huge incentive to protect their brand.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by esummers View Post


    Is the EFF still involved? This is clearly a case of theft.



    The EFF is like PETA. They take a good idea and extend it past the breaking point until they become nothing more than radical extremists (my favorite is PETA's demand that Punxatawny Phil (the famous Feb 2 groundhog) be replaced with a robot).



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justbobf View Post


    From what I remember, he didn't purchase "stolen" property. The property was "lost." I think there is a difference here...



    Then what you remember is wrong. If you had done even a modicum of research, you'd know what the CA law says on the matter. It has been posted on AI dozens of times in the past few weeks even if you're too lazy to search for the info online. If someone finds a lost article and doesn't make a reasonable attempt to return it to the owner, it is stolen property.
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