Prosecution seeks to protect informant in Gizmodo iPhone case

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 77
    asianbobasianbob Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    That is, of course, BS. Your 'explanation' of why my analogy didn't apply boiled down to "I don't want to believe it".

    I love your silly rationalization...



    Good Jebus, you broke my Irony-o-Meter with those words.
  • Reply 62 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    Good Jebus, you broke my Irony-o-Meter with those words.



    It took a second, but I got it. Correct use of the word Irony as well.



    Love it!



    That will be my only comment on this subject.
  • Reply 63 of 77
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    That is, of course, BS. Your 'explanation' of why my analogy didn't apply boiled down to "I don't want to believe it".



    No, it boils down to what is reasonable and what does rational thought tell us. Oh and the law.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    I love your silly rationalization at the end of your first paragraph.



    I love how you write off the parts of the statute that you don't like as 'rationalization'. So, what's the constitution? A distraction?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Let's even assume that you're right. Now, try to follow:



    1. You admit that taking a car is theft.



    Yup.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    2. You agree that taking a phone is theft if you don't follow through on your obligations.



    Do you not see the difference here? Taking the phone is not theft. It is not theft. It is not theft. (Does repeating it more often make it more true? Trying to learn from your example) Actions (or lack of) taken after you took possession of it would make it theft. Contrast with simply taking a car. That is theft.



    Chen breaking into Job's home, killing his dog and stealing the television would also involve theft. An intelligent person might, however, see that as a really, really poor analogy. Others might not.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    3. The finder clearly did not follow through on his obligations.



    And yet, there were obligations. This is because taking the phone was not theft, until those obligations are violated. Taking a car is theft, nothing further required. Apples ain't oranges, but they are both fruit. Armed robbery is theft too, but holy shit would that ever be the weakest analogy ever. I am sure you would try to make it fit.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    4. Therefore, it is theft - no matter how many foolish rationalizations you try to come up with.



    Or statutes, laws, codes. Son, you might not like the laws, but writing them off as rationalizations is weak. A lawyer should understand that. Even a junior associate or paralegal.



    You asked why simply leaving with the phone was not theft but leaving with a car is automatically theft (actually, this is the second time recently you have asked the same question). No rationalization required, just explaining the facts of the law to you again.



    If my lawyer had to ask me to explain the law to him, I would fire him. Quickly.
  • Reply 64 of 77
    ogmudboneogmudbone Posts: 31member
    I'm not arguing that what the guy did wasn't illegal, but this situation is taken completely out of proportion here. Why is a guy's apartment being raided over a lost phone? Just because this phone is a company secret doesn't warn't such harsh reaction. It was a complete blunder for the Apple employ who "lost" it in a bar, its ridiculous, completely Apple's fault for not keeping better tabs (or any tabs) on their million dollar secret. And the guy getting his apartment raided and prosecuted only makes it look worse that Apple is so up tight about it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


    After taking a look at your other posts since joining this form on 05-02-2010 it is clear you are a typical Apple hater who joined an Apple centric forum just to spout FUD. You are even using the talking points being spread around by your colleagues, specifically the "Apple should apologize" and the "bad press" mantras. This is textbook FUD. In light of your posting trail it would be interesting to know why you chose AppleInsider but you are probably on other Apple sites using different sock puppets. Bottom line, you are way to obvious, a rookie perhaps. That's why your age was questioned.



    Excuse me? I've owned several Apple products, an original iPod touch, an original iPhone (I bought it within the month it came out), an iPhone 3GS, and multiple mac mini's and macbooks. I'm also a shareholder with a lot of interest in how this company works, the direction its going in, and the media it receives. The point of an internet forum is to exchange knowledge and ideas, I completely misunderstood the situation and a member was able to correct me and give me the actual story, as otherwise a simple google search only leads to contradicting and uninformative rumors. Its fine to disagree with me, but the fact that you went through the time to look through all post is very pathetic and immature. My post was not factual but a member was able to correct me, your post however is just spam and flaming.
  • Reply 65 of 77
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ogmudbone View Post


    I'm not arguing that what the guy did wasn't illegal, but this situation is taken completely out of proportion here. Why is a guy's apartment being raided over a lost phone? Just because this phone is a company secret doesn't warn't such harsh reaction. It was a complete blunder for the Apple employ who "lost" it in a bar, its ridiculous, completely Apple's fault for not keeping better tabs (or any tabs) on their million dollar secret. And the guy getting his apartment raided and prosecuted only makes it look worse that Apple is so up tight about it.







    Excuse me? I've owned several Apple products, an original iPod touch, an original iPhone (I bought it within the month it came out), an iPhone 3GS, and multiple mac mini's and macbooks. I'm also a shareholder with a lot of interest in how this company works, the direction its going in, and the media it receives. The point of an internet forum is to exchange knowledge and ideas, I completely misunderstood the situation and a member was able to correct me and give me the actual story, as otherwise a simple google search only leads to contradicting and uninformative rumors. Its fine to disagree with me, but the fact that you went through the time to look through all post is very pathetic and immature. My post was not factual but a member was able to correct me, your post however is just spam and flaming.



    And you are still following the well established pattern of forum trolls. That second paragraph is textbook troll deflection. I own... device(s), stock, love, karma... Out of proportion reaction... what's next a mention of jackboots.



    If you aren't a troll man up and subject yourself to a quiet period where you will do more to help your reputation than continued defense in absurdium will do.



    The only thing that is blown out of proportion in this case is the media interest. A couple dudes broke the law and got caught doing it because they shout their mouths off (or more accurately blogged about it). This happens all the time and nobody cares about it. But steal from a successful company that is now having a backlash against it's success and suddenly the media loves it. The dudes are in deep legal trouble and the only thing keeping them from having already spent their evening in jail after being booked is that at least one of them can be considered a journalist in some fashion. The DA is being overcautious, but he wants his big splashy conviction and unless he really screws it up he'll get it.
  • Reply 66 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    If you aren't a troll man up and subject yourself to a quiet period where you will do more to help your reputation than continued defense in absurdium will do.



    You don't actually have the right to say that. only a Mod does, and the mod has no problem with his post, just as he has no problem with yours.



    ....Until someone complains....of course.



    So, basically, the same could be said about you, no matter how many posts you have.
  • Reply 67 of 77
    masternavmasternav Posts: 442member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Sounds like the prosecution is having some trouble keeping their stories straight as to why they 'need' the information kept sealed. No wonder the judge last week washed his hands if it.



    Oh wait! The prosecution is only allowed ONE reason to seal the files. Silly me! And it is SO OUT OF THE ORDINARY for one judge to defer to another in cases like this. Yep the quintessential legal mind at work here!

  • Reply 68 of 77
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post


    You don't actually have the right to say that. only a Mod does, and the mod has no problem with his post, just as he has no problem with yours.



    ....Until someone complains....of course.



    So, basically, the same could be said about you, no matter how many posts you have.



    I have every right to comment on the contents of his posts and the tone they take. I did not ad-hom, I commented on the posts and his failed attempt to position himself as something other than a troll. I was even nice enough to suggest a specific and very reasonable technique for rehabilitating his poor reputation of his posts should he be merely misguided.
  • Reply 69 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    I have every right to comment on the contents of his posts and the tone they take. I did not ad-hom, I commented on the posts and his failed attempt to position himself as something other than a troll. I was even nice enough to suggest a specific and very reasonable technique for rehabilitating his poor reputation of his posts should he be merely misguided.



    I'm really not going to argue with you. It is what you would like, but it is not what you are going to get.



    You made an unfit label, which in print can actually be said to be libel. You are playing the same game used against tekstud, labeling someone as a troll and getting others to gang up on him and I really have no margin for it.



    Did the OP he was responding to message you and ask you to come to his defense, or did you just see he was defending himself against one of your friends and you all defaulted to your MO? I really don't care either way.



    Your entire statement was unfounded, based on opinion alone, and was a thinly veiled personal attack, and your response to me suggest mayhap you should consult a mirror.



    That is all I will say on the subject, to you or anyone.



    Good evening, sir.
  • Reply 70 of 77
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,031member
    http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/12/...totype-iphone/



    I like one of the comments which is to the effect of: What are apple going to do now? Invade Vietnam? Lol
  • Reply 71 of 77
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masternav View Post


    Oh wait! The prosecution is only allowed ONE reason to seal the files. Silly me! And it is SO OUT OF THE ORDINARY for one judge to defer to another in cases like this. Yep the quintessential legal mind at work here!





    Is that what I said? Nice to see a rational mind at work.



    However, if they have multiple reasons and are trying to explain why they asked for it to be sealed, presenting those reasons together would help make them more plausible. Trickling them out, days apart, as though they forgot some of them makes it sound like the are grasping a bit. As far as the judge, well, when one judges makes a decision that a party finds to be questionable, it isn't unusual to bring it to another judge or court to review the decision. Sort of part of their job. You might not understand these concepts, so I apologize if I have confused you.
  • Reply 72 of 77
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    I have every right to comment on the contents of his posts and the tone they take. I did not ad-hom, I commented on the posts and his failed attempt to position himself as something other than a troll. I was even nice enough to suggest a specific and very reasonable technique for rehabilitating his poor reputation of his posts should he be merely misguided.



    So, then it would be ok if someone suggested that you take a break from posting, as you are coming off as a thoughtless cheerleader (as opposed to you calling him a troll)? They might suggest that it would help your reputation as someone who unthinkingly parrots the party line, even if the party line doesn't make sense? I guess if someone was to do that, they might be trying to rehabilitate your reputation. I, however, would think they would make these suggestions to you because they are unable to participate in reasoned debate and instead simply try shut you down. I would disagree with anyone telling you to shut up simply because they don't like what you are posting (whether it was fact or fantasy). They would be out of line. What fun would these forums be if we only had mindless posts from one side of an issue? Sounds about as fun as attending a Scientology convention.



    What is particularly funny, is that you and others are acting like questioning/criticizing the actions of the DA or the police or the court somehow is criticizing Apple and so take it as a personal insult to you. In most cases, in this thread, that isn't the case. I see many more posts that question the case or even point out glaring holes in the assumptions and analogies that others are making, but you somehow relate this to an attack on Apple. Beyond the issues with someone so strangely entangling their sense of self with a corporation, it gets more bizarre that some have managed to now project these blind loyalties onto the police and DA.
  • Reply 73 of 77
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    So, then it would be ok if someone suggested that you take a break from posting, as you are coming off as a thoughtless cheerleader (as opposed to you calling him a troll)? They might suggest that it would help your reputation as someone who unthinkingly parrots the party line, even if the party line doesn't make sense? I guess if someone was to do that, they might be trying to rehabilitate your reputation. I, however, would think they would make these suggestions to you because they are unable to participate in reasoned debate and instead simply try shut you down. I would disagree with anyone telling you to shut up simply because they don't like what you are posting (whether it was fact or fantasy). They would be out of line. What fun would these forums be if we only had mindless posts from one side of an issue? Sounds about as fun as attending a Scientology convention.



    What is particularly funny, is that you and others are acting like questioning/criticizing the actions of the DA or the police or the court somehow is criticizing Apple and so take it as a personal insult to you. In most cases, in this thread, that isn't the case. I see many more posts that question the case or even point out glaring holes in the assumptions and analogies that others are making, but you somehow relate this to an attack on Apple. Beyond the issues with someone so strangely entangling their sense of self with a corporation, it gets more bizarre that some have managed to now project these blind loyalties onto the police and DA.



    Please say all that rather than hypothesize. I called it straight up, no pussy-footing around or wishy-washy fake what-ifs. We all have opinions on your posts and their reality already, you'll only serve to reinforce opinions that are already there.
  • Reply 74 of 77
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    Please say all that rather than hypothesize. I called it straight up, no pussy-footing around or wishy-washy fake what-ifs. We all have opinions on your posts and their reality already, you'll only serve to reinforce opinions that are already there.



    I am sure you do have an opinion Hiro, I am sure you do.



    You didn't really call anything straight up, as much as having defaulting to the same old, tired, worn out "if you disagree with the party line then you are a troll, so shut up, nyah, nyah, nyah". No pussy-footing or what-ifs, just nothing really of any value. Seems to be par for the course for your posts.



    What is it you would like me to say? I thought I was quite clear that saying those thing about you and then using them to justify telling you to shut up would be rude. You don't get that? It is a childish and weak minded to seek to shut down opposing discussion. Why would I opt to do that? I enjoy reading opposing, well thought out discussion. I dislike people that instead tell people with opposing views to shut up. This isn't kindergarten, we can all have and state our opinion. The point of my post was to explain that to you. You missed the point, again. My bad, I guess.



    Between you and Robin huber, I swear half of your posts are telling other people to 'just shut up'. Not the best contribution to informed conversation, but to each his own.
  • Reply 75 of 77
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    I am sure you do have an opinion Hiro, I am sure you do.



    You didn't really call anything straight up, as much as having defaulting to the same old, tired, worn out "if you disagree with the party line then you are a troll, so shut up, nyah, nyah, nyah". No pussy-footing or what-ifs, just nothing really of any value. Seems to be par for the course for your posts.



    What is it you would like me to say? I thought I was quite clear that saying those thing about you and then using them to justify telling you to shut up would be rude. You don't get that? It is a childish and weak minded to seek to shut down opposing discussion. Why would I opt to do that? I enjoy reading opposing, well thought out discussion. I dislike people that instead tell people with opposing views to shut up. This isn't kindergarten, we can all have and state our opinion. The point of my post was to explain that to you. You missed the point, again. My bad, I guess.



    Between you and Robin huber, I swear half of your posts are telling other people to 'just shut up'. Not the best contribution to informed conversation, but to each his own.



    True to form... Thanks for the confirmation, although I really didn't require it, thanks anyway.



    What is it I'd like you to say? I really don't have an agenda for you. Sorry, but it's just not a priority for me.



    What would I like for the world? For people to actually read more than micro-chunks and then actually understand what they read. To be able to tell the difference between a fact and an opinion. If the people of the world could actually do that we might have a future as a species.
  • Reply 76 of 77
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    True to form... Thanks for the confirmation, although I really didn't require it, thanks anyway.



    No problem Hiro, always willing to help those in need. BTW, I just noticed your very first post in this thread was to call someone a troll and tell them to stop posting. Talk about true to form. Nice.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    What is it I'd like you to say? I really don't have an agenda for you. Sorry, but it's just not a priority for me.



    Hmmm...perhaps you shouldn't have asked it of me then. Not a priority for you, but certainly something you asked for. Puzzling line of thought you have.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    What would I like for the world? For people to actually read more than micro-chunks and then actually understand what they read. To be able to tell the difference between a fact and an opinion. If the people of the world could actually do that we might have a future as a species.



    Wow, would that ever make the world a better place. High hopes indeed. We ought to all strive for such loftiness in our global vision It seems though, that perhaps we share a common ideal. While this might be your ideal for a perfect world, for me the scope is somewhat less. I would like to see that behavior right here on these forums. Much better than seeing people take the easy route and telling others to shut up. We learn as children (hopefully) that is not conducive to mature conversation and interaction. If those lessons of childhood can't be expected here, how can we expect to realize the grand dream of seeing it on a global, international scale?



    Baby steps Hiro, baby steps.
  • Reply 77 of 77
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    MacRumors

    I guess we will see who the confidential informant was (unless redacted) and who else is being investigated that the police thought were unaware (and living under a rock).
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