So we have TWO people who don't know the difference between a beta and a released product?
And we have one individual who doesn't know how to read or has a Pavlovian reaction on his keyboard to anything he perceives to be slightly contradictory to his myopic worldview.
See my previous post where I clearly stated it was a beta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I'm not surprised - as I said before - you Adobe shills are even worse than the Microsoft shills.
I could care less about getting or not getting Flash. For me (and I suspect most people), it'll be a nice to have. So I don't have to wonder why this website I am trying out isn't working. But hey, nice to have. Something better than nothing.
And if the rumours are true, then it'll be coming with the option to be turned off. So if users find Flash bothersome, they can just switch it off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Even if Adobe does release 10.1 sometime this year, something like 1% of smart phones will have enough CPU power to handle it. I'm having a hard time understanding how that equates to 'Adobe was right and Flash is available for all mobile users" which is the BS that you shills have been spewing.
Given the rate at which Android is growing, given that Android 2.2 will be available on phones already in the market and given that Flash 10.1 will be made available on Android 2.2 (as per Adobe's committments FWIW), it's highly unlikely that'll it'll only be 1% of smartphones by the end of the year.
But you are right, in that 1% is not that far off the mark. But as Android grows, developers will be far less compelled to dump Flash. In effect, Flash's fate is tied to Android. If Android's market share and installed base surpasses the iPhone, then nobody is going to bother rejigging their websites for the iPhone. If the iPhone continues to dominate (particularly in the installed base) then of course developers will cater to the dominant audience (using iPhones) and drop flash. Place your bets.
Currently? No. In a month? Completely different story.
html5 isn't "released" either. Flash player will be on android looooong before html5 becomes a standard, and will likely have been refined a few times before html5 reaches candidate status. They're losing their lunch because some companies are starting to use html5 video embedding, which we knew and expected because it makes sense a while ago.
but don't you agree that it would be more interesting if all competing tablets were different instead of the ipad against the ipad wannabees?
Define different. For example, how do you make a tablet computer anything other than a slab of glass? That to me, is like suggesting a computer manufacturer is not innovative because they put out computers that have keyboards and mice. At some point, some basic functionality because the norm. That's why messaging phones have QWERTY keyboards and increasingly data-centric phones have full touchscreens and so will slate/tablet computers, which themselves are basically overgrown MIDs (which have been full touchscreens for awhile).
html5 isn't "released" either. Flash player will be on android looooong before html5 becomes a standard, and will likely have been refined a few times before html5 reaches candidate status. They're losing their lunch because some companies are starting to use html5 video embedding, which we knew and expected because it makes sense a while ago.
Which makes these geniuses hilarious.
Just because it isn't released doesn't mean its not usable. A lot of HTML5 is most certainly employable and available to developers. But it most certainly doesn't have all its kinks outs. And it probably isn't anywhere close to be capable of replacing Flash. If it was, I suspect that developers would have migrated on their own.
Anyway, as a consumer I don't really care. I just want to be able to use my phone to surf the web. If Flash is available now so be it. Couldn't care less if it's laggy either. At least I can access the website. For example, nothing more annoying than going to a restaurant's site (and for some reason I come across lots of restaurant websites that use Flash) and not being able to check it out because Flash isn't available on my phone. I'll be happy when I can access any website I want on my phone and won't have to run to my Mac just to read a menu. If that's Flash today, then give me Flash on my phone. If that's HTML5, then give me that.
But if and when Flash is gone, I won't be crying tears for Adobe either....
As for the dogmatic stance of Apple. Good for them. And good on their users who are making the right choice for themselves. If they have the patience to put up with blue bricks, good on them. They're better people than me! I could care less about this standard and that standard. I just want a phone that works and let's me access the information I want, when I want. That's important to my user experience.
but don't you agree that it would be more interesting if all competing tablets were different instead of the ipad against the ipad wannabees?
For my own curiosity, what would constitute a "different" tablet. I mean, by definition a "tablet" has a certain form - size differences aside.
Any tablet has to run an operating system, and all things considered, all of the phone OSs and desktop OSs are, at a certain level, the same (icons, clicking, tapping, swiping, etc).
Just because it isn't released doesn't mean its not usable. A lot of HTML5 is most certainly employable and available to developers. But it most certainly doesn't have all its kinks outs. And it probably isn't anywhere close to be capable of replacing Flash. If it was, I suspect that developers would have migrated on their own.
I never implied it was -all- unusable. In a web development shop here and we're on top of what works and what is dodgy.
I just find these guys hilarious shrieking that flash is still beta but much of the html5 that is apparently supposed to kill flash is, pretty beta itself.
I never implied it was -all- unusable. In a web development shop here and we're on top of what works and what is dodgy.
I just find these guys hilarious shrieking that flash is still beta but much of the html5 that is apparently supposed to kill flash is, pretty beta itself.
People who are that shrill and lack any nuance whatsoever are really not all that different from the Jehovah's witnesses that interrupt my beauty rest on Saturday morning.
And just like the Jehoah's they tend to go on faith. Just like our friend jragosta here. Never used an Android device (or at least never updated anything on one), but apparently he knows all about how updates work. "I read on the internets. It must be true."...pretty close to, "I read it in the bible. Must be true."
Yes, do your homework, pud. More specifically (and of utmost importance), "Multitouch on a Capacitive Display" was patented by Apple. In contrast, Microsoft purchased the multitouch patent behind its Surface product, which involves image projection and image sensors that detect objects by triangulation. How's come you don't complain about that? Is it because the Surface isn't cool enough to want to copy/steal but the iPhone is?
Quote:
While multitouch was patented for some reason, God knows why,
You needn't beseech God to find out. Apple, the US PTO, Google, HTC, Palm, Microsoft, and the rest of the Whole Wide World know why it was patented, because Apple's patent applications are public. Read'em and weep!
Quote:
that means that Palm could go after Apple for half of their products.
Probably not! Palm never had a product that didn't use a resistive display and a stylus until the Pre, which came several years after Apple applied for a patent on multitouch on a capacitive display.
Quote:
I love the fact that the iPhone keyboard is a patent - the fact that the letters enlarge when you press each one. Apple should go ahead and patent the right for a touchscreen cell phone of any kind.
I'm sure Apple will apply for a patent on anything that's novel, just as Goople would and does. Goople has hundreds if not thousands of patents. If they don't patent, they're doing shareholders a disservice.
Quote:
Even better, they should patent the internet...they would if they could.
So would Goople. So would you. May you have better luck in the alternate universe you live in!
These two are also Android shills if you haven't noticed.
If Apple had provided an iPhone on the network I use, I'd be talking about the iPhone. Does that make me an iPhone shill?
I have never said Android is better. Far from it. I have always maintained that Android is nowhere as polished as the iPhone. However, some of the ridiculous positions in here (like OMG, it's soooooo difficult to update) need to be corrected. Is reality anathema to AI?
However, some of the ridiculous positions in here (like OMG, it's soooooo difficult to update) need to be corrected.
You don't get it? No matter how easy the update process is theoretically, it's impossible to update when an update hasn't been provided--the typical state of Android devices and a never-happened occurrence (knock on wood) for iPhones and iPod touches.
Actually ask US Patent office. That is a place where most of patents are "stolen". Patent in the USA has lame grounds and this is comparing to European patents.
Ever wondered if you can obtain patent for mouse or pen in the USA? Yes you can. Just phrase it properly. In Europe this is not possible as Patent Office has obligations to make proper research on innovation before granting patent . Also there is something as allowance to "prior user" who did not apply for patent while somoene else did later.
It is amusing to watch US Patent fools playing this game. Now when Asia comes with its own patents while US economy is so dependent on those countries... We will see if it can be won based on plain numbers.
Engadget.com is reporting that HTC hasn't actually filed a lawsuit against Apple. All HTC has done is file a complaint with the ITC. The speculation is that HTC doesn't think its patent stance is very strong but hopes it can bamboozle the ITC into blocking Apple imports anyway.
You don't get it? No matter how easy the update process is theoretically, it's impossible to update when an update hasn't been provided--the typical state of Android devices and a never-happened occurrence (knock on wood) for iPhones and iPod touches.
Except that's not what jragosta was going on about. I actually did acknowledge carrier issues with updates. Here in Canada, Rogers faced a minor revolt from Android users over one Android update, and it actually gave out free phones to make up for it. Anyway, jragosta was going on and on about how it's difficult to update. Clearly untrue.
Engadget.com is reporting that HTC hasn't actually filed a lawsuit against Apple. All HTC has done is file a complaint with the ITC. The speculation is that HTC doesn't think its patent stance is very strong but hopes it can bamboozle the ITC into blocking Apple imports anyway.
I posted Nilay Patel's analysis above. The guy is a patent lawyer so he usually has intelligent analysis.
I think he's right. Look like a weak play by HTC. Oh well. You gotta use what you have.
Comments
So we have TWO people who don't know the difference between a beta and a released product?
And we have one individual who doesn't know how to read or has a Pavlovian reaction on his keyboard to anything he perceives to be slightly contradictory to his myopic worldview.
See my previous post where I clearly stated it was a beta.
I'm not surprised - as I said before - you Adobe shills are even worse than the Microsoft shills.
I could care less about getting or not getting Flash. For me (and I suspect most people), it'll be a nice to have. So I don't have to wonder why this website I am trying out isn't working. But hey, nice to have. Something better than nothing.
And if the rumours are true, then it'll be coming with the option to be turned off. So if users find Flash bothersome, they can just switch it off.
Even if Adobe does release 10.1 sometime this year, something like 1% of smart phones will have enough CPU power to handle it. I'm having a hard time understanding how that equates to 'Adobe was right and Flash is available for all mobile users" which is the BS that you shills have been spewing.
Given the rate at which Android is growing, given that Android 2.2 will be available on phones already in the market and given that Flash 10.1 will be made available on Android 2.2 (as per Adobe's committments FWIW), it's highly unlikely that'll it'll only be 1% of smartphones by the end of the year.
But you are right, in that 1% is not that far off the mark. But as Android grows, developers will be far less compelled to dump Flash. In effect, Flash's fate is tied to Android. If Android's market share and installed base surpasses the iPhone, then nobody is going to bother rejigging their websites for the iPhone. If the iPhone continues to dominate (particularly in the installed base) then of course developers will cater to the dominant audience (using iPhones) and drop flash. Place your bets.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/11/a...nexus-one-vide
Android 2.2 in a week. And Flash 10.1 in June.
Currently? No. In a month? Completely different story.
html5 isn't "released" either. Flash player will be on android looooong before html5 becomes a standard, and will likely have been refined a few times before html5 reaches candidate status. They're losing their lunch because some companies are starting to use html5 video embedding, which we knew and expected because it makes sense a while ago.
Which makes these geniuses hilarious.
hmm, no
i'm not afraid of choice
but don't you agree that it would be more interesting if all competing tablets were different instead of the ipad against the ipad wannabees?
Define different. For example, how do you make a tablet computer anything other than a slab of glass? That to me, is like suggesting a computer manufacturer is not innovative because they put out computers that have keyboards and mice. At some point, some basic functionality because the norm. That's why messaging phones have QWERTY keyboards and increasingly data-centric phones have full touchscreens and so will slate/tablet computers, which themselves are basically overgrown MIDs (which have been full touchscreens for awhile).
html5 isn't "released" either. Flash player will be on android looooong before html5 becomes a standard, and will likely have been refined a few times before html5 reaches candidate status. They're losing their lunch because some companies are starting to use html5 video embedding, which we knew and expected because it makes sense a while ago.
Which makes these geniuses hilarious.
Just because it isn't released doesn't mean its not usable. A lot of HTML5 is most certainly employable and available to developers. But it most certainly doesn't have all its kinks outs. And it probably isn't anywhere close to be capable of replacing Flash. If it was, I suspect that developers would have migrated on their own.
Anyway, as a consumer I don't really care. I just want to be able to use my phone to surf the web. If Flash is available now so be it. Couldn't care less if it's laggy either. At least I can access the website. For example, nothing more annoying than going to a restaurant's site (and for some reason I come across lots of restaurant websites that use Flash) and not being able to check it out because Flash isn't available on my phone. I'll be happy when I can access any website I want on my phone and won't have to run to my Mac just to read a menu. If that's Flash today, then give me Flash on my phone. If that's HTML5, then give me that.
But if and when Flash is gone, I won't be crying tears for Adobe either....
As for the dogmatic stance of Apple. Good for them. And good on their users who are making the right choice for themselves. If they have the patience to put up with blue bricks, good on them. They're better people than me! I could care less about this standard and that standard. I just want a phone that works and let's me access the information I want, when I want. That's important to my user experience.
hmm, no
i'm not afraid of choice
but don't you agree that it would be more interesting if all competing tablets were different instead of the ipad against the ipad wannabees?
For my own curiosity, what would constitute a "different" tablet. I mean, by definition a "tablet" has a certain form - size differences aside.
Any tablet has to run an operating system, and all things considered, all of the phone OSs and desktop OSs are, at a certain level, the same (icons, clicking, tapping, swiping, etc).
So, really what would a "different" tablet be?
Just because it isn't released doesn't mean its not usable. A lot of HTML5 is most certainly employable and available to developers. But it most certainly doesn't have all its kinks outs. And it probably isn't anywhere close to be capable of replacing Flash. If it was, I suspect that developers would have migrated on their own.
I never implied it was -all- unusable. In a web development shop here and we're on top of what works and what is dodgy.
I just find these guys hilarious shrieking that flash is still beta but much of the html5 that is apparently supposed to kill flash is, pretty beta itself.
As it is, there is not currently ANY mobile device that run a full version of Flash. None.
Doesn't the N900 run the full version of Flash 9.4 now?
I never implied it was -all- unusable. In a web development shop here and we're on top of what works and what is dodgy.
I just find these guys hilarious shrieking that flash is still beta but much of the html5 that is apparently supposed to kill flash is, pretty beta itself.
People who are that shrill and lack any nuance whatsoever are really not all that different from the Jehovah's witnesses that interrupt my beauty rest on Saturday morning.
And just like the Jehoah's they tend to go on faith. Just like our friend jragosta here. Never used an Android device (or at least never updated anything on one), but apparently he knows all about how updates work. "I read on the internets. It must be true."...pretty close to, "I read it in the bible. Must be true."
So, really what would a "different" tablet be?
Unibody construction...made out of unobtainium. Anything less is not innovative.
Oh yeah...and frickin' laser beams. It's gotta have laser beams.
Doesn't the N900 run the full version of Flash 9.4 now?
It does.
It does.
So that would make jragosta wrong then
It does.
hmmm. would the n900 represent at least 1% of he smartphone marketshare?
Multitouch is a patent? Puuuuuuuhlese.
Yes, do your homework, pud. More specifically (and of utmost importance), "Multitouch on a Capacitive Display" was patented by Apple. In contrast, Microsoft purchased the multitouch patent behind its Surface product, which involves image projection and image sensors that detect objects by triangulation. How's come you don't complain about that? Is it because the Surface isn't cool enough to want to copy/steal but the iPhone is?
While multitouch was patented for some reason, God knows why,
You needn't beseech God to find out. Apple, the US PTO, Google, HTC, Palm, Microsoft, and the rest of the Whole Wide World know why it was patented, because Apple's patent applications are public. Read'em and weep!
that means that Palm could go after Apple for half of their products.
Probably not! Palm never had a product that didn't use a resistive display and a stylus until the Pre, which came several years after Apple applied for a patent on multitouch on a capacitive display.
I love the fact that the iPhone keyboard is a patent - the fact that the letters enlarge when you press each one. Apple should go ahead and patent the right for a touchscreen cell phone of any kind.
I'm sure Apple will apply for a patent on anything that's novel, just as Goople would and does. Goople has hundreds if not thousands of patents. If they don't patent, they're doing shareholders a disservice.
Even better, they should patent the internet...they would if they could.
So would Goople. So would you. May you have better luck in the alternate universe you live in!
DROID INCREDIBLE
Yes, incredibly bad. Incredibly routine.
So that would make jragosta wrong then
Of course, he won't admit it. He'll simply not respond and quietly slink away to another thread or change topics. But hey that's how these folks are.
These two are also Android shills if you haven't noticed.
If Apple had provided an iPhone on the network I use, I'd be talking about the iPhone. Does that make me an iPhone shill?
I have never said Android is better. Far from it. I have always maintained that Android is nowhere as polished as the iPhone. However, some of the ridiculous positions in here (like OMG, it's soooooo difficult to update) need to be corrected. Is reality anathema to AI?
However, some of the ridiculous positions in here (like OMG, it's soooooo difficult to update) need to be corrected.
You don't get it? No matter how easy the update process is theoretically, it's impossible to update when an update hasn't been provided--the typical state of Android devices and a never-happened occurrence (knock on wood) for iPhones and iPod touches.
Wonder where HTC stole those patents from
Actually ask US Patent office. That is a place where most of patents are "stolen". Patent in the USA has lame grounds and this is comparing to European patents.
Ever wondered if you can obtain patent for mouse or pen in the USA? Yes you can. Just phrase it properly. In Europe this is not possible as Patent Office has obligations to make proper research on innovation before granting patent . Also there is something as allowance to "prior user" who did not apply for patent while somoene else did later.
It is amusing to watch US Patent fools playing this game. Now when Asia comes with its own patents while US economy is so dependent on those countries... We will see if it can be won based on plain numbers.
(An arrogant Euro living in the USA)
You don't get it? No matter how easy the update process is theoretically, it's impossible to update when an update hasn't been provided--the typical state of Android devices and a never-happened occurrence (knock on wood) for iPhones and iPod touches.
Except that's not what jragosta was going on about. I actually did acknowledge carrier issues with updates. Here in Canada, Rogers faced a minor revolt from Android users over one Android update, and it actually gave out free phones to make up for it. Anyway, jragosta was going on and on about how it's difficult to update. Clearly untrue.
Engadget.com is reporting that HTC hasn't actually filed a lawsuit against Apple. All HTC has done is file a complaint with the ITC. The speculation is that HTC doesn't think its patent stance is very strong but hopes it can bamboozle the ITC into blocking Apple imports anyway.
I posted Nilay Patel's analysis above. The guy is a patent lawyer so he usually has intelligent analysis.
I think he's right. Look like a weak play by HTC. Oh well. You gotta use what you have.