Are you always uninformed, TechStud? Don't answer that, rhetorical question.
I thought it sounded like him, too. I see he's gotten himself banned, yet again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
I suspect this will play into Apple's hands. More awareness of the problem. More shrugs. More movement away from Flash.
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB
Ah... and there we get to the crux of the furor.
FWIW, Adobe apparently has no shame. Excoriating Apple for being 'closed', the proof of which is that they won't support Adobe's PROPRIETARY format.
This kind of reminds me Symbiosis episode of ST:TNG where the one world had gotten the other addicted to a harmful drug they thought was a cure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant
I saw the video too, and it stuttered like hell... "first rendition" was the excuse. How long has Adobe been working on this?
Did you see Flash 10.1 on Android v2.2 "Froyo" on a Nexus One? In their controlled tests it looks pretty good in regards to stuttering. I have doubts that they have dealt with the issue of battery life or using a decent bit rate. Note that in the video you have to press and hold in the Flash area to divert control from the browser window to the Flash window, one of the many issues surrounding Flash for mouse-less interface.
When it does finally drop — 3+ years after Adobe said they have Flash for iPhone ready — won't it only work on just two phones, the Nexus One and Droid Incredible?
Flash is the Future for web content delivery... always has been, always will be...
That said, let's talk about the present!
.
Sure thing, I tested some html5 basic animation stuff this morning, and while it worked in general on several browsers, it failed completely on the iphone.
So much for the present! oppps! Guess it's er, in beta or something...
Sure thing, I tested some html5 basic animation stuff this morning, and while it worked in general on several browsers, it failed completely on the iphone.
So much for the present! oppps! Guess it's er, in beta or something...
How did Steve Jobs do the HTML5 iAds demonstration on the iPhone then?
Well, they say Apple's been keeping them off the iPhone since 2007. You can't have it both ways.
-I- can't have it both ways?
_I-... am perfectly fine with NOT having current flash on the iphone, because I totally agree that flash is a dog on it, and shouldn't allowed on it.
I've been consistent with this from the beginning in wrangling with a few of the flash hatin liars I encounter. I don't want to see a crappy flash player on mobile. Why would I.
How did Steve Jobs do the HTML5 iAds demonstration on the iPhone then?
oh I see a demonstration is ok for apple, but adobe well, it's vapourware.
I'm talking about the basic animation stuff available or being proposed in html5. I've tested quite a few and haven't found any that work very well or at all yet. If there is any post them I'm trying to find some. Not saying there isn't, I'm actually hunting down some thanks.
Flash is good for some things and bad for others. The problem is that 99% of Flash on the web is poorly written and used for the wrong reasons. Not Adobe's fault. The real blame goes to the advertisers and the designers along with the clueless business owners who demand Flash on their home page because they think it looks fancy. Fancy is out utilitarian is in. The times they are a changin'. No need to complain, just be patient. The next shift of trendy is right around the corner along with the next annoying nuisance that will be HTML5 abuse.
What ever you do to try to block ads, there will be a workaround developed by the people who have a different agenda. Example: Gordon.js can run Flash ads even on an iPhone and is not detected by Click to Flash, not that many are using that method presently.
Once advertising income is being lost due to blocking, they will just come up with another even more insidious method of delivering them. Kind of makes you wonder how prevalent Flash blocking really is, since the advertisers don't seem to be showing any signs of moving away from Flash to HTML5.
What you say is true. But it is an ongoing cat and mouse game, like: Apple vs JailBreakers or Apple vs Pre-iTunes synch.
But, as we move forward into the generation of mobile devices, I think that the tendency will be to use Aggregator apps instead of more generalized web surfing. The user will be able to access content through an app: news through an RSS feeds; scores/highlights through a sports app...
...the way of presenting ads will change. If done right, the user, while seeking some content:
-- will be subtly made aware of something (an ad) that might be of interest to him in particular
-- can choose to view the ad, or not... without losing current place
-- can opt in or out any time
-- can provide feedback, positive and negative, to the ads... to help clean up the neighborhod
I suspect that Apple's walled garden of apps and iAd are steps in this direction.
If they do this well, users will [mostly] be content to stay within the garden, getting what they need without being exposed to the seamy underbelly of "shotgun" advertising that the web is coming to be.
This won't be for everybody, but it should satisfy the needs of a lot of non-techies
Sure thing, I tested some html5 basic animation stuff this morning, and while it worked in general on several browsers, it failed completely on the iphone.
So much for the present! oppps! Guess it's er, in beta or something...
I was wondering about that myself. We hear about all these sites converting for the ipad, but does that also include the iphone most of the time? I mean, once the website converted, did it enable iphone users to watch ABC online for instance?
Flash is good for some things and bad for others. The problem is that 99% of Flash on the web is poorly written and used for the wrong reasons. Not Adobe's fault. The real blame goes to the advertisers and the designers along with the clueless business owners who demand Flash on their home page because they think it looks fancy. Fancy is out utilitarian is in. The times they are a changin'. No need to complain, just be patient. The next shift of trendy is right around the corner along with the next annoying nuisance that will be HTML5 abuse.
exactly. I talk clients all the time out of flash, I just talked one who wanted their whole site done in flash, it was nuts. I have them talked down to a site developed in joomla, but they insisted on a main page flash banner. So, I'll do my usual trick of swfObject and create good non flash content.
Flash is absolutely overused, there are great applications for it, the overuse is not doing it any favors at all really.
I was wondering about that myself. We hear about all these sites converting for the ipad, but does that also include the iphone most of the time? I mean, once the website converted, did it enable iphone users to watch ABC online for instance?
Well I'm aware the html5 video thing is working well (mot iphone afaik correct me if I'm wrong) but I'm talking about all the other flash stuff, you know the other 90% of flash.
4. Pseudo developers who really don't know how to code, but have learned how to do Flash animations while refusing to learn html 5, Objective C, etc. This seems to be the loudest group in the whole issue, particularly with regard to the App Store. These 'developers' are too lazy to learn to code properly and want to create a Flash program and sell it on all platforms with no work on their part.
I'll have to disagree with this point of view, because it's elitist.
Not everyone is an Objective C programmer, nor does everyone want to be. And people shouldn't be forced into learning one way when other ways are available. Not everyone has the same education and skillset.
If someone makes a tool that makes your job simpler, you use it. In this case, it means a simplified approach to programming that makes development accessible to ordinary people. If you try to argue against accessibility, you'll lose.
Now, it's another argument entirely if they want to program in Flash and the Flash engine is inherently buggy and slow. That's Adobe's problem. But if you want to use NimbleKit or PhoneKit, tools that are allowable under the new Terms of Use, you shouldn't be hassled by Objective C purists.
Well I'm aware the html5 video thing is working well (mot iphone afaik correct me if I'm wrong) but I'm talking about all the other flash stuff, you know the other 90% of flash.
Sure thing, I tested some html5 basic animation stuff this morning, and while it worked in general on several browsers, it failed completely on the iphone.
So much for the present! oppps! Guess it's er, in beta or something...
I'll have to disagree with this point of view, because it's elitist.
Not everyone is an Objective C programmer, nor does everyone want to be. And people shouldn't be forced into learning one way when other ways are available. Not everyone has the same education and skillset.
If someone makes a tool that makes your job simpler, you use it. In this case, it means a simplified approach to programming that makes development accessible to ordinary people. If you try to argue against accessibility, you'll lose.
Now, it's another argument entirely if they want to program in Flash and the Flash engine is inherently buggy and slow. That's Adobe's problem. But if you want to use NimbleKit or PhoneKit, tools that are allowable under the new Terms of Use, you shouldn't be hassled by Objective C purists.
I thought Objective C was a prerequisite for software engineering in college.
Just more lies from him. To "fail completely" is to crash the browser, not to move slowly or not be interactive as nearly all the HTML5 Canvas animations I've seen were designed for a desktop browser with a mouse point for interaction with desktop power. It doesn't even have HW acceleration yet. But he'll still keep trying to spin HTML5 as being Canvas despite HTML5 being alive and well.
Just more lies from him. To "fail completely" is not to move slowly and nearly all the HTML5 Canvas animations I've seen were designed for a desktop browser with a mouse point for interaction with desktop power. It doesn't even have HW acceleration yet. But he'll still keep trying to spin HTML5 as being Canvas despite HTML5 being alive and well.
How many times do you need to repeat yourself only to be corrected, -again-.
I never said canvas, was all of html5. Did you get that? Is that clear?
I am focusing, on the parts of html5, that involve animations etc., that will be used to "replace flash". k? Is that clear now?
Now I know this is a toughie of a concept. Tough. wooo. phew. But you'll get it at some point. Maybe you'll repeat yourself a few more times. I've seen you do it so, don't worry, I won't be surprised.
Now if someone could be kind enough, to post an html5 site using the animations, and I mean a fairly good one, that I can test on an iphone. I am looking for one.
_I-... am perfectly fine with NOT having current flash on the iphone, because I totally agree that flash is a dog on it, and shouldn't allowed on it.
I've been consistent with this from the beginning in wrangling with a few of the flash hatin liars I encounter. I don't want to see a crappy flash player on mobile. Why would I.
Really? I don't think you've been consistent at all. I think you're shifting your position to sidestep your misstatements faster than Michael Flatley's feet move.
Sure thing, I tested some html5 basic animation stuff this morning, and while it worked in general on several browsers, it failed completely on the iphone.
So much for the present! oppps! Guess it's er, in beta or something...
Really? I don't think you've been consistent at all. I think you're shifting your position to sidestep your misstatements faster than Michael Flatley's feet move.
I thought Objective C was a prerequisite for software engineering in college.
OOP (Object oriented programming) concepts are needed for a degree, but a specific language like Objective C isn't. It really depends on where you go. Personally, I think any experience with Objective C points to a very competent college because they aren't limiting you to programming for Windows.
In college, my main experience was with java, VB (6 & .net), C++, pl/sql, and I had an object oriented design class that focused on many different languages including pseudo code. I would have loved to learn some Objective C, though now I'm a java developer so I'm glad I focused on what I did.
Comments
Are you always uninformed, TechStud? Don't answer that, rhetorical question.
I thought it sounded like him, too. I see he's gotten himself banned, yet again.
I suspect this will play into Apple's hands. More awareness of the problem. More shrugs. More movement away from Flash.
I agree.
Ah... and there we get to the crux of the furor.
FWIW, Adobe apparently has no shame. Excoriating Apple for being 'closed', the proof of which is that they won't support Adobe's PROPRIETARY format.
This kind of reminds me Symbiosis episode of ST:TNG where the one world had gotten the other addicted to a harmful drug they thought was a cure.
I saw the video too, and it stuttered like hell... "first rendition" was the excuse. How long has Adobe been working on this?
Did you see Flash 10.1 on Android v2.2 "Froyo" on a Nexus One? In their controlled tests it looks pretty good in regards to stuttering. I have doubts that they have dealt with the issue of battery life or using a decent bit rate. Note that in the video you have to press and hold in the Flash area to divert control from the browser window to the Flash window, one of the many issues surrounding Flash for mouse-less interface.When it does finally drop — 3+ years after Adobe said they have Flash for iPhone ready — won't it only work on just two phones, the Nexus One and Droid Incredible?
Flash is the Future for web content delivery... always has been, always will be...
That said, let's talk about the present!
.
Sure thing, I tested some html5 basic animation stuff this morning, and while it worked in general on several browsers, it failed completely on the iphone.
So much for the present! oppps! Guess it's er, in beta or something...
Sure thing, I tested some html5 basic animation stuff this morning, and while it worked in general on several browsers, it failed completely on the iphone.
So much for the present! oppps! Guess it's er, in beta or something...
How did Steve Jobs do the HTML5 iAds demonstration on the iPhone then?
Well, they say Apple's been keeping them off the iPhone since 2007. You can't have it both ways.
-I- can't have it both ways?
_I-... am perfectly fine with NOT having current flash on the iphone, because I totally agree that flash is a dog on it, and shouldn't allowed on it.
I've been consistent with this from the beginning in wrangling with a few of the flash hatin liars I encounter. I don't want to see a crappy flash player on mobile. Why would I.
How did Steve Jobs do the HTML5 iAds demonstration on the iPhone then?
oh I see a demonstration is ok for apple, but adobe well, it's vapourware.
I'm talking about the basic animation stuff available or being proposed in html5. I've tested quite a few and haven't found any that work very well or at all yet. If there is any post them I'm trying to find some. Not saying there isn't, I'm actually hunting down some thanks.
What ever you do to try to block ads, there will be a workaround developed by the people who have a different agenda. Example: Gordon.js can run Flash ads even on an iPhone and is not detected by Click to Flash, not that many are using that method presently.
Once advertising income is being lost due to blocking, they will just come up with another even more insidious method of delivering them. Kind of makes you wonder how prevalent Flash blocking really is, since the advertisers don't seem to be showing any signs of moving away from Flash to HTML5.
What you say is true. But it is an ongoing cat and mouse game, like: Apple vs JailBreakers or Apple vs Pre-iTunes synch.
But, as we move forward into the generation of mobile devices, I think that the tendency will be to use Aggregator apps instead of more generalized web surfing. The user will be able to access content through an app: news through an RSS feeds; scores/highlights through a sports app...
...the way of presenting ads will change. If done right, the user, while seeking some content:
-- will be subtly made aware of something (an ad) that might be of interest to him in particular
-- can choose to view the ad, or not... without losing current place
-- can opt in or out any time
-- can provide feedback, positive and negative, to the ads... to help clean up the neighborhod
I suspect that Apple's walled garden of apps and iAd are steps in this direction.
If they do this well, users will [mostly] be content to stay within the garden, getting what they need without being exposed to the seamy underbelly of "shotgun" advertising that the web is coming to be.
This won't be for everybody, but it should satisfy the needs of a lot of non-techies
.
Sure thing, I tested some html5 basic animation stuff this morning, and while it worked in general on several browsers, it failed completely on the iphone.
So much for the present! oppps! Guess it's er, in beta or something...
I was wondering about that myself. We hear about all these sites converting for the ipad, but does that also include the iphone most of the time? I mean, once the website converted, did it enable iphone users to watch ABC online for instance?
Flash is good for some things and bad for others. The problem is that 99% of Flash on the web is poorly written and used for the wrong reasons. Not Adobe's fault. The real blame goes to the advertisers and the designers along with the clueless business owners who demand Flash on their home page because they think it looks fancy. Fancy is out utilitarian is in. The times they are a changin'. No need to complain, just be patient. The next shift of trendy is right around the corner along with the next annoying nuisance that will be HTML5 abuse.
exactly. I talk clients all the time out of flash, I just talked one who wanted their whole site done in flash, it was nuts. I have them talked down to a site developed in joomla, but they insisted on a main page flash banner. So, I'll do my usual trick of swfObject and create good non flash content.
Flash is absolutely overused, there are great applications for it, the overuse is not doing it any favors at all really.
I was wondering about that myself. We hear about all these sites converting for the ipad, but does that also include the iphone most of the time? I mean, once the website converted, did it enable iphone users to watch ABC online for instance?
Well I'm aware the html5 video thing is working well (mot iphone afaik correct me if I'm wrong) but I'm talking about all the other flash stuff, you know the other 90% of flash.
You left out:
4. Pseudo developers who really don't know how to code, but have learned how to do Flash animations while refusing to learn html 5, Objective C, etc. This seems to be the loudest group in the whole issue, particularly with regard to the App Store. These 'developers' are too lazy to learn to code properly and want to create a Flash program and sell it on all platforms with no work on their part.
I'll have to disagree with this point of view, because it's elitist.
Not everyone is an Objective C programmer, nor does everyone want to be. And people shouldn't be forced into learning one way when other ways are available. Not everyone has the same education and skillset.
If someone makes a tool that makes your job simpler, you use it. In this case, it means a simplified approach to programming that makes development accessible to ordinary people. If you try to argue against accessibility, you'll lose.
Now, it's another argument entirely if they want to program in Flash and the Flash engine is inherently buggy and slow. That's Adobe's problem. But if you want to use NimbleKit or PhoneKit, tools that are allowable under the new Terms of Use, you shouldn't be hassled by Objective C purists.
Well I'm aware the html5 video thing is working well (mot iphone afaik correct me if I'm wrong) but I'm talking about all the other flash stuff, you know the other 90% of flash.
Are you referring to animation?
Sure thing, I tested some html5 basic animation stuff this morning, and while it worked in general on several browsers, it failed completely on the iphone.
So much for the present! oppps! Guess it's er, in beta or something...
I'll have to disagree with this point of view, because it's elitist.
Not everyone is an Objective C programmer, nor does everyone want to be. And people shouldn't be forced into learning one way when other ways are available. Not everyone has the same education and skillset.
If someone makes a tool that makes your job simpler, you use it. In this case, it means a simplified approach to programming that makes development accessible to ordinary people. If you try to argue against accessibility, you'll lose.
Now, it's another argument entirely if they want to program in Flash and the Flash engine is inherently buggy and slow. That's Adobe's problem. But if you want to use NimbleKit or PhoneKit, tools that are allowable under the new Terms of Use, you shouldn't be hassled by Objective C purists.
I thought Objective C was a prerequisite for software engineering in college.
Show us!
Just more lies from him. To "fail completely" is to crash the browser, not to move slowly or not be interactive as nearly all the HTML5 Canvas animations I've seen were designed for a desktop browser with a mouse point for interaction with desktop power. It doesn't even have HW acceleration yet. But he'll still keep trying to spin HTML5 as being Canvas despite HTML5 being alive and well.
Just more lies from him. To "fail completely" is not to move slowly and nearly all the HTML5 Canvas animations I've seen were designed for a desktop browser with a mouse point for interaction with desktop power. It doesn't even have HW acceleration yet. But he'll still keep trying to spin HTML5 as being Canvas despite HTML5 being alive and well.
How many times do you need to repeat yourself only to be corrected, -again-.
I never said canvas, was all of html5. Did you get that? Is that clear?
I am focusing, on the parts of html5, that involve animations etc., that will be used to "replace flash". k? Is that clear now?
Now I know this is a toughie of a concept. Tough. wooo. phew. But you'll get it at some point. Maybe you'll repeat yourself a few more times. I've seen you do it so, don't worry, I won't be surprised.
Now if someone could be kind enough, to post an html5 site using the animations, and I mean a fairly good one, that I can test on an iphone. I am looking for one.
-I- can't have it both ways?
_I-... am perfectly fine with NOT having current flash on the iphone, because I totally agree that flash is a dog on it, and shouldn't allowed on it.
I've been consistent with this from the beginning in wrangling with a few of the flash hatin liars I encounter. I don't want to see a crappy flash player on mobile. Why would I.
Really? I don't think you've been consistent at all. I think you're shifting your position to sidestep your misstatements faster than Michael Flatley's feet move.
Sure thing, I tested some html5 basic animation stuff this morning, and while it worked in general on several browsers, it failed completely on the iphone.
So much for the present! oppps! Guess it's er, in beta or something...
Yer Doin' it Wrong.
Really? I don't think you've been consistent at all. I think you're shifting your position to sidestep your misstatements faster than Michael Flatley's feet move.
care to elaborate?
Yer Doin' it Wrong.
can you post examples of "doin it right"? thx.
I thought Objective C was a prerequisite for software engineering in college.
OOP (Object oriented programming) concepts are needed for a degree, but a specific language like Objective C isn't. It really depends on where you go. Personally, I think any experience with Objective C points to a very competent college because they aren't limiting you to programming for Windows.
In college, my main experience was with java, VB (6 & .net), C++, pl/sql, and I had an object oriented design class that focused on many different languages including pseudo code. I would have loved to learn some Objective C, though now I'm a java developer so I'm glad I focused on what I did.