so right now you haven't leave Windows completely..? You cheater you.. \
so in short; Windows for painful work and Mac for fun life..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
Yeah, I learned on AutoCAD 12 in DOS, so I know all about the hell that it was. Still, hot keys are great, and way faster than using endless menus. Basically, 12 was in DOS and Mac, and they killed MAC when they went to windows with version 13 (a slow version of the mac 12) and version 14 (more in line with what the mac version was).
Right now, AutoCAD is a pretty solid program, and it can do a lot of great drafting. Still though, a lot of the bugs in the program still haven't been worked out. Despite all of the development, I still get "lines not coplanar" notes despite both being at z = 0, it still crashes, and it still changes its own preferences randomly.
Basically, AutoCAD is a monster in the industry, Autodesk knows it, and they seem to be more interested in tweaking their own software to create reasons for clients to upgrade all the time rather than to win new users, which they don't actually have to do.
Between these issues, and the lack of Mac support, people did flee to other software. I use Vectorworks at my office for some projects, and it is a solid product. For somethings I prefer ACAD, but VW doers excel a lot. Also, ArchiCAD has a lot of supporters. Still though, you have to deal with consultants who all use ACAD.
I was one of the many people that thought that when Apple went with OS X on Intel we'd see CAD make a comeback, since it would be easy for them to do so. Their foot dragging has been pretty sad, and has led to even more adoption to alternatives. Seriously, I doubt that VW and ArchiCAD would be that well known, if even existent, if Autodesk stayed with MAC. They pretty much created the market for their own competition.
That said, CAD is seen as a product that will slowly die, as BIM is all the rage. VW and ArchiCAD have long had BIM functions, and Autodesk is working hard to push Revit as the future. Like AutoCAD, it has its own pains to working with it, so its not perfect, but I am curious to see if it will be ported over as well. One product at a time, I guess.
The thing is, despite all the problems with AutoCAD over the years (and my God there have been a lot of them), everybody knows it. If you want to hire a draughtsman, odds are they will know AutoCAD, so it's become pretty much the only game in town by availability of users, as opposed to any great features or abilities it has.
I'll be happy to see it on the Mac. Like many people here, it will see the end of my Bootcamp partition.
Well... The fact that Autocad never saw need to take a 'hiatus' from the windows platform is quite telling as to which is truly the more powerful computing environment.
AutoCAD works in conjunction with various CAM programs, NURBS modelers, etc., in the heavy engineering world which are all on the PC platform.
Why? Because OpenGL was on SGI IRIX first and later on WinNT 3.51 long before it came to the Mac world.
With OS X making OpenGL and bring the world OpenCL it seems that AutoDesk is smart enough to see how much their applications can leverage that marriage on any platform that supports it.
With AutoCAD coming I'm just hoping Ansys and Pro/E follow.
The thing is, despite all the problems with AutoCAD over the years (and my God there have been a lot of them), everybody knows it. If you want to hire a draughtsman, odds are they will know AutoCAD, so it's become pretty much the only game in town by availability of users, as opposed to any great features or abilities it has.
I'll be happy to see it on the Mac. Like many people here, it will see the end of my Bootcamp partition.
Very true on CAD standard on AutoCAD. It may be a pain but no company has created a compelling enough solution to take on Autodesk.
Well... The fact that Autocad never saw need to take a 'hiatus' from the windows platform is quite telling as to which is truly the more powerful computing environment.
Don't confuse powerful computing environment with the powerful leverage that market penetration afforded. Macs have been used for CGI for years creating 3D effects that require tremendous power and flexibility in a computing environment. The kind of power needed to create virtual worlds perhaps dwarfs what is needed for mere 2D and 3D drafting and rendering.
Forgive my ignorance, but are Form?Z and ArchiCAD mere "also rans" in this space or are they in a different market?
- Jasen.
I believe the problem is that AutoCAD is the defacto standard within a lot of industries (good or bad) and will not but unseated for a long time if at all.
I always preferred Ahslar Vellum but when in Rome...
I hate to find myself agreeing with "OzExige" as they seem to spend most of their time complaining about everything, but they do have a point.
I haven't used AutoCAD since Windows 95 days, but it *was* a dinosaur in so many ways. Even when it finally went to a GUI environment, (many years after the last DOS user died of carpal tunnel syndrome), it was the thinnest of shells over what was still essentially a CLI product that relied on HotKeys and Menus for literally every function.
It's too bad that AppleInsider didn't take this opportunity to get us up to speed on what AutoCAD is like now. Since there are very few good drafting programs in general, and almost none of note on the Mac, it's tempting that the acknowledged classic program of this type is coming back. If on the other hand it's still all driven by the keyboard or at least designed around that fact, then its not going to be anything that the average computer user can use. In fact it would be of no interest to anyone who doesn't already use it in the Windows environment as you can see from the majority of the comments here.
Anyone care to fill in a bit of the background about what it's like to use AutoCAD today?
You can customize your toolbars and make it more mouse driven, but it is still very much keyboard driven and it's generally easier to learn the commands and use them instead of clicking and searching for the tool you need.
Very true on CAD standard on AutoCAD. It may be a pain but no company has created a compelling enough solution to take on Autodesk.
Solidworks certainly carved out a niche that could have been AutoCad's. That would truly be the turning point for the Mac OS X as an industrial design platform when we get Solidworks.
I hate to find myself agreeing with "OzExige" as they seem to spend most of their time complaining about everything, but they do have a point.
I haven't used AutoCAD since Windows 95 days, but it *was* a dinosaur in so many ways. Even when it finally went to a GUI environment, (many years after the last DOS user died of carpal tunnel syndrome), it was the thinnest of shells over what was still essentially a CLI product that relied on HotKeys and Menus for literally every function.
It's too bad that AppleInsider didn't take this opportunity to get us up to speed on what AutoCAD is like now. Since there are very few good drafting programs in general, and almost none of note on the Mac, it's tempting that the acknowledged classic program of this type is coming back. If on the other hand it's still all driven by the keyboard or at least designed around that fact, then its not going to be anything that the average computer user can use. In fact it would be of no interest to anyone who doesn't already use it in the Windows environment as you can see from the majority of the comments here.
Anyone care to fill in a bit of the background about what it's like to use AutoCAD today?
I am not sure why you are complaining about software that uses hotkeys. From personal experience and other user comments and working with software developers, keyboard shortcuts are much faster and require less wrist movement then mouse driven menu's. That may not be your preferred way to work but I would suspect you are in a minority. All you Adobe Cs jockeys out there am I wrong?
I've worked in two architectural offices now that have refused to use Autocad solely because of its lack of Mac compatibility. Both offices had a mix of PCs and Macs. I'd like to know if Autodesk's Revit modeling program is going to come to the Mac, too.
Unfortunately, I may have to actually BUY an copy. One major thing it must have: Drag-n-Drop. AutoCAD (Autodesk) just have no idea how to properly drag-n-drop. (shits me to no end. Try fixing the toolbar and see what I mean: joke.) Better not bring that ribbon over. Otherwise, that's an idea that needs an Apple touch. Port Rivet too.
I'm thrilled. I hope they include AutoCAD Architecture and other vertical programs. I also hope they plan on bringing Revit to the Mac. I use both and would love to finally be rid of Windows. I will still use ArchiCAD and VectorWorks though. Good news!
If on the other hand it's still all driven by the keyboard or at least designed around that fact, then its not going to be anything that the average computer user can use.
That's like saying Avid isn't something the average Mac user would want to use because it's almost entirely keyboard driven. Neither package are intended for the average end user, but both are extraordinarily powerful. And your average Avid user isn't going to give up their keyboard-centric experience for anything.
With AutoCAD being available on Windows and now Mac, is it reasonable to expect that we will be able to share dwgs between the two? I wonder how External References will be transfered? Windows assigns driver letters and OSX does not. So if I have a drawing that is looking for an externally referenced drawing at file path starting with "C:", I wonder how the Mac version will compensate for that? And vice versa? Any ideas?
If on the other hand it's still all driven by the keyboard or at least designed around that fact,
And I hope it stays that way because the keyboard is faster and more efficient than the mouse. Every time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
...then its not going to be anything that the average computer user can use.
Does the average computer user have a computer that does not have a keyboard? Or are people just unwilling to learn some simple keyboard commands? I think people are just unwilling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
In fact it would be of no interest to anyone who doesn't already use it in the Windows environment as you can see from the majority of the comments here.
I currently use AutoCAD in a Windows based environment but I'm certainly interested in checking out the Mac version. Of course I can't claim to represent the majority
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
Anyone care to fill in a bit of the background about what it's like to use AutoCAD today?
I trained on Release 12 for DOS and went to work on Release 13. My company at the time was one of the first to upgrade to Release 14 and what a relief that was!
I'm now using AutoCAD 2008 (two CAD employers later) and still using the same LISP commands I started developing in Release 13. I've had to change them very little.
So I guess for the most part it's the same as it has always been only better with Dynamic Blocks and all the new 3D modeling commands that have been added since.
I find that with every new release some big new feature gets added that is "must have" but most of the changes are in rearranging the menus and tool bars. So if you don't mind "relearning" AutoCAD every time a new release comes out, then keep driving it with your mouse. Keyboard commands, on the other hand, seem to have changed very little over the years.
Anyone care to fill in a bit of the background about what it's like to use AutoCAD today?
Crap. There are so many things out there superior to AutoCAD, on the Mac or otherwise. For example, I haven't used AutoCAD since 2002 or so and have moved over to Siemens NX.
No doubt AutoDesk is worried that others have ported/porting their CAD packages to Mac.
Comments
so right now you haven't leave Windows completely..? You cheater you..
so in short; Windows for painful work and Mac for fun life..?
Yeah, I learned on AutoCAD 12 in DOS, so I know all about the hell that it was. Still, hot keys are great, and way faster than using endless menus. Basically, 12 was in DOS and Mac, and they killed MAC when they went to windows with version 13 (a slow version of the mac 12) and version 14 (more in line with what the mac version was).
Right now, AutoCAD is a pretty solid program, and it can do a lot of great drafting. Still though, a lot of the bugs in the program still haven't been worked out. Despite all of the development, I still get "lines not coplanar" notes despite both being at z = 0, it still crashes, and it still changes its own preferences randomly.
Basically, AutoCAD is a monster in the industry, Autodesk knows it, and they seem to be more interested in tweaking their own software to create reasons for clients to upgrade all the time rather than to win new users, which they don't actually have to do.
Between these issues, and the lack of Mac support, people did flee to other software. I use Vectorworks at my office for some projects, and it is a solid product. For somethings I prefer ACAD, but VW doers excel a lot. Also, ArchiCAD has a lot of supporters. Still though, you have to deal with consultants who all use ACAD.
I was one of the many people that thought that when Apple went with OS X on Intel we'd see CAD make a comeback, since it would be easy for them to do so. Their foot dragging has been pretty sad, and has led to even more adoption to alternatives. Seriously, I doubt that VW and ArchiCAD would be that well known, if even existent, if Autodesk stayed with MAC. They pretty much created the market for their own competition.
That said, CAD is seen as a product that will slowly die, as BIM is all the rage. VW and ArchiCAD have long had BIM functions, and Autodesk is working hard to push Revit as the future. Like AutoCAD, it has its own pains to working with it, so its not perfect, but I am curious to see if it will be ported over as well. One product at a time, I guess.
The thing is, despite all the problems with AutoCAD over the years (and my God there have been a lot of them), everybody knows it. If you want to hire a draughtsman, odds are they will know AutoCAD, so it's become pretty much the only game in town by availability of users, as opposed to any great features or abilities it has.
I'll be happy to see it on the Mac. Like many people here, it will see the end of my Bootcamp partition.
Well... The fact that Autocad never saw need to take a 'hiatus' from the windows platform is quite telling as to which is truly the more powerful computing environment.
AutoCAD works in conjunction with various CAM programs, NURBS modelers, etc., in the heavy engineering world which are all on the PC platform.
Why? Because OpenGL was on SGI IRIX first and later on WinNT 3.51 long before it came to the Mac world.
With OS X making OpenGL and bring the world OpenCL it seems that AutoDesk is smart enough to see how much their applications can leverage that marriage on any platform that supports it.
With AutoCAD coming I'm just hoping Ansys and Pro/E follow.
The thing is, despite all the problems with AutoCAD over the years (and my God there have been a lot of them), everybody knows it. If you want to hire a draughtsman, odds are they will know AutoCAD, so it's become pretty much the only game in town by availability of users, as opposed to any great features or abilities it has.
I'll be happy to see it on the Mac. Like many people here, it will see the end of my Bootcamp partition.
Very true on CAD standard on AutoCAD. It may be a pain but no company has created a compelling enough solution to take on Autodesk.
Well... The fact that Autocad never saw need to take a 'hiatus' from the windows platform is quite telling as to which is truly the more powerful computing environment.
Don't confuse powerful computing environment with the powerful leverage that market penetration afforded. Macs have been used for CGI for years creating 3D effects that require tremendous power and flexibility in a computing environment. The kind of power needed to create virtual worlds perhaps dwarfs what is needed for mere 2D and 3D drafting and rendering.
Any news on Inventor Suite working on the mac anytime soon?
- Jasen.
Forgive my ignorance, but are Form?Z and ArchiCAD mere "also rans" in this space or are they in a different market?
- Jasen.
I believe the problem is that AutoCAD is the defacto standard within a lot of industries (good or bad) and will not but unseated for a long time if at all.
I always preferred Ahslar Vellum but when in Rome...
I hate to find myself agreeing with "OzExige" as they seem to spend most of their time complaining about everything, but they do have a point.
I haven't used AutoCAD since Windows 95 days, but it *was* a dinosaur in so many ways. Even when it finally went to a GUI environment, (many years after the last DOS user died of carpal tunnel syndrome), it was the thinnest of shells over what was still essentially a CLI product that relied on HotKeys and Menus for literally every function.
It's too bad that AppleInsider didn't take this opportunity to get us up to speed on what AutoCAD is like now. Since there are very few good drafting programs in general, and almost none of note on the Mac, it's tempting that the acknowledged classic program of this type is coming back. If on the other hand it's still all driven by the keyboard or at least designed around that fact, then its not going to be anything that the average computer user can use. In fact it would be of no interest to anyone who doesn't already use it in the Windows environment as you can see from the majority of the comments here.
Anyone care to fill in a bit of the background about what it's like to use AutoCAD today?
You can customize your toolbars and make it more mouse driven, but it is still very much keyboard driven and it's generally easier to learn the commands and use them instead of clicking and searching for the tool you need.
Very true on CAD standard on AutoCAD. It may be a pain but no company has created a compelling enough solution to take on Autodesk.
Solidworks certainly carved out a niche that could have been AutoCad's. That would truly be the turning point for the Mac OS X as an industrial design platform when we get Solidworks.
I hate to find myself agreeing with "OzExige" as they seem to spend most of their time complaining about everything, but they do have a point.
I haven't used AutoCAD since Windows 95 days, but it *was* a dinosaur in so many ways. Even when it finally went to a GUI environment, (many years after the last DOS user died of carpal tunnel syndrome), it was the thinnest of shells over what was still essentially a CLI product that relied on HotKeys and Menus for literally every function.
It's too bad that AppleInsider didn't take this opportunity to get us up to speed on what AutoCAD is like now. Since there are very few good drafting programs in general, and almost none of note on the Mac, it's tempting that the acknowledged classic program of this type is coming back. If on the other hand it's still all driven by the keyboard or at least designed around that fact, then its not going to be anything that the average computer user can use. In fact it would be of no interest to anyone who doesn't already use it in the Windows environment as you can see from the majority of the comments here.
Anyone care to fill in a bit of the background about what it's like to use AutoCAD today?
I am not sure why you are complaining about software that uses hotkeys. From personal experience and other user comments and working with software developers, keyboard shortcuts are much faster and require less wrist movement then mouse driven menu's. That may not be your preferred way to work but I would suspect you are in a minority. All you Adobe Cs jockeys out there am I wrong?
With Maya, Smoke and Sidefx Houdini etc available I guess it was just a matter of time. Now how about 3d Studio Max & Revit?
If on the other hand it's still all driven by the keyboard or at least designed around that fact, then its not going to be anything that the average computer user can use.
That's like saying Avid isn't something the average Mac user would want to use because it's almost entirely keyboard driven. Neither package are intended for the average end user, but both are extraordinarily powerful. And your average Avid user isn't going to give up their keyboard-centric experience for anything.
If on the other hand it's still all driven by the keyboard or at least designed around that fact,
And I hope it stays that way because the keyboard is faster and more efficient than the mouse. Every time.
...then its not going to be anything that the average computer user can use.
Does the average computer user have a computer that does not have a keyboard? Or are people just unwilling to learn some simple keyboard commands? I think people are just unwilling.
In fact it would be of no interest to anyone who doesn't already use it in the Windows environment as you can see from the majority of the comments here.
I currently use AutoCAD in a Windows based environment but I'm certainly interested in checking out the Mac version. Of course I can't claim to represent the majority
Anyone care to fill in a bit of the background about what it's like to use AutoCAD today?
I trained on Release 12 for DOS and went to work on Release 13. My company at the time was one of the first to upgrade to Release 14 and what a relief that was!
I'm now using AutoCAD 2008 (two CAD employers later) and still using the same LISP commands I started developing in Release 13. I've had to change them very little.
So I guess for the most part it's the same as it has always been only better with Dynamic Blocks and all the new 3D modeling commands that have been added since.
I find that with every new release some big new feature gets added that is "must have" but most of the changes are in rearranging the menus and tool bars. So if you don't mind "relearning" AutoCAD every time a new release comes out, then keep driving it with your mouse. Keyboard commands, on the other hand, seem to have changed very little over the years.
Anyone care to fill in a bit of the background about what it's like to use AutoCAD today?
Crap. There are so many things out there superior to AutoCAD, on the Mac or otherwise. For example, I haven't used AutoCAD since 2002 or so and have moved over to Siemens NX.
No doubt AutoDesk is worried that others have ported/porting their CAD packages to Mac.
Siemens did it with NX a while back.