The World Health Organization indicates the nationwide suicide rate in China is something like 14 per 100,000 people. Foxconn's 10 out of 300,000 in one year is actually lower than that.
Yup. Actual facts lost on "journalists" trying to fabricate a crisis.
The World Health Organization indicates the nationwide suicide rate in China is something like 14 per 100,000 people. Foxconn's 10 out of 300,000 in one year is actually lower than that.
By the article you quote it is 14.8 for women + 13 for men = almost 28/100,000 population (assuming roughly equal number men/women).
Before you start spouting those statistics, you should read the story of what life is like for those workers. I would kill myself too if I lived like that.
Well Apple is demanding they produce the goods at the lowest possible price, so this is a consequence of that.
For supposedly premium products, why does Apple use a low tier manufacturer like Foxcon? Their motherboards not well regarded in the PC world, so I doubt things are different with Apple. Mac do seem to have very high rates of logic board failure.
Apple (and every other company) demands the same thing of Intel and every other supplier, and customers demand the same thing of every company in the world. We all want the best product we can get for the lowest price. That doesn't mean that we're all responsible for the Chinese government's unwillingness to pass and enforce labor laws.
It may not be Apple's responsibility per se, but that doesn't not mean they have to sit idly by. They are in a unique position to apply pressure and affect change. They could really take the lead here as far as computer companies go like they have with their "green" initiatives. You are paying a premium for a "boutique" computer. It would be nice to see that extra expense be leveraged for a program like this.
And they are doing more than any other tech company that uses these suppliers. Apple did their own investigation and published the findings -- findings that were not at all flattering. Apple is doing more than their fair share. Frankly, the Chinese government should be embarrassed that Apple feels the need to do it at all. Whose responsibility is it to protect Chinese citizens -- a foreign multinational company or the Chinese government? Can you imagine if US workers had to rely on Toyota to force an American tire supplier to follow US law because the US government was so completely negligent in its duties?
Apple needs to move its manufacturing to the US and invest heavily in automation. There no justification to use economic slavery in the quest for profits. Especially for a company with $30-40B in cash. There are a lot of states in the US that do not have relatively low labor cost, and no state income taxes.
As noble a thought as that is, the smart people at Apple would have done that if it were feasible. What you morons fail to notice is that while almost all of the other consumer electronics engineering has moved outside of the states, Apple develops these products in Cupertino. Stop vilifying this company, holding it to a ghost standard. Hold other companies to Apple's standard, let's start there.
And for all the trolls spinning this as Apple's problem alone this from Foxconn's Wikipedia entry...
"Among other things, Foxconn produces the Mac mini, the iPod, the iPad, and the iPhone for Apple Inc.; Intel-branded motherboards for Intel Corp.; various orders for American computer manufacturers Dell and Hewlett-Packard; motherboards for UK computer manufacturer Zoostorm; the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 for Sony; the Wii for Nintendo; the Xbox 360 for Microsoft, cell phones for Motorola, the Amazon Kindle, and Cisco equipment.[2][3][4][5]"
The trolls (journalists?) seem to leave this little fact out when bashing Apple for this unfortunate state of affairs.
Apple needs to move its manufacturing to the US and invest heavily in automation. There no justification to use economic slavery in the quest for profits. Especially for a company with $30-40B in cash. There are a lot of states in the US that do not have relatively low labor cost, and no state income taxes.
Also, I bet you're the same dude who will balk at paying full price for cellphones, balk at airfares in America, balk at the cost of American made goods. You can't have it both ways. You also can't wait till someone gets successful and then demand that they share their bounty with you. While I'm no ardent supporter of Ayn Rand's brand of objectivism, your situation reminds of the Atlas Shrugged story, where people demanded to ride on the backs and strong shoulders of the few people that actually bothered to do something.
That said foxconn suicide rate is still way lower than their national suicide rate, and lower than a lot of tec companies. Ask France telecom who have the count of 30+ if I remember correctly.
But of course a lot of money is spent nowadays to the press by competitors to throw dirt at apple, since they can't put any decent product on the market. I am sure if someone tracked ms, intel, dell, google etc. they past 6 months they will have their fair share of suicides, if they didn't it would defy international statistics on suicides.
Anyway, people are not numbers, so above all rip to the deceased .
Yes. A friend of mine here is an exchange student from Beijing. She told me that the single-child policy is still in effect.
it is one child policy mostly in city while not applicable to minority. in countryside, it is pretty much that this policy is ignored widespread. those working in foxconn mostly come from country instead of city.
Before you start spouting those statistics, you should read the story of what life is like for those workers. I would kill myself too if I lived like that.
Perhaps Foxconn's suicide rate is high among such factories or perhaps this is a focus on Apple, but he made no claim that the conditions are good or acceptable by our standards. He merely pointed out that it's still well below the national average.
I love it how all you people are so quick to quote Chinese suicide statistics. If their suicide statistics are as accurate as their economic ones, I wouldn't put very much stock in it.
Lastly, why are you all so quick to defend Apple? I'm sure you all would gladly pay another $20 to have things made in the USA. Heck, its a selling point in this high unemployment era. Especially with all the billions in cash laying around.
There have been living wage initiatives with coffee, why not computers?
Apple needs to move its manufacturing to the US and invest heavily in automation. There no justification to use economic slavery in the quest for profits. Especially for a company with $30-40B in cash. There are a lot of states in the US that do not have relatively low labor cost, and no state income taxes.
I guess we can take you off the list of the "People Who Know Something About The Tech Biz List"
NOBODY is manufacturing CE and/or computer gear in the US.
You MIGHT still find SUPER EXPENSIVE signature audiophile / videophile stuff still made in the US but when they charge $15,000 for a DVD player or $60,000 for a pair of front speakers then I guess they certainly could afford to have em made in the US but I defy you to find any big-name competitively priced CE products that are MADE in the US. However, even those high priced companies have finally gone overseas too. Oh and IMPORTING a bunch of pre-assembeled circuit boards, screwing them into a case (made who knows where) and tacking on a power supply (also made who knows where) does NOT count as 'Made in USA'.
I guess we can take you off the list of the "People Who Know Something About The Tech Biz List"
NOBODY is manufacturing CE and/or computer gear in the US.
You MIGHT still find SUPER EXPENSIVE signature audiophile / videophile stuff still made in the US but when they charge $15,000 for a DVD player or $60,000 for a pair of front speakers then I guess they certainly could afford to have em made in the US but I defy you to find any big-name competitively priced CE products that are MADE in the US. However, even those high priced companies have finally gone overseas too. Oh and IMPORTING a bunch of pre-assembeled circuit boards, screwing them into a case (made who knows where) and tacking on a power supply (also made who knows where) does NOT count as 'Made in USA'.
The World Health Organization indicates the nationwide suicide rate in China is something like 14 per 100,000 people. Foxconn's 10 out of 300,000 in one year is actually lower than that.
For the U.S., the National Institute of Mental Health at the NIH reports an annual suicide rate of 10.9 per 100,000 people. The average age of Foxconn workers is probably below the average age of all U.S. citizens, though. For young adults in the U.S., the suicide rate is higher than for the general population, at 12.5 per 100,000 in young adults ages 20-24. For adolescents in the U.S., the rate drops to 8.2 per 100,000, which is still much worse than Foxconn's apparent suicide rate.
Before you start spouting those statistics, you should read the story of what life is like for those workers. I would kill myself too if I lived like that.
Yeah, let's not get carried away with facts when a bit of "unbaised" journalism will shed more light!
More food for thought: have you seen how dismal the average Chinese citizens' life is? Not everywhere in China is like glittering Hong Kong or bustling Shanghai.
Comments
The World Health Organization indicates the nationwide suicide rate in China is something like 14 per 100,000 people. Foxconn's 10 out of 300,000 in one year is actually lower than that.
Yup. Actual facts lost on "journalists" trying to fabricate a crisis.
The World Health Organization indicates the nationwide suicide rate in China is something like 14 per 100,000 people. Foxconn's 10 out of 300,000 in one year is actually lower than that.
By the article you quote it is 14.8 for women + 13 for men = almost 28/100,000 population (assuming roughly equal number men/women).
Before you start spouting those statistics, you should read the story of what life is like for those workers. I would kill myself too if I lived like that.
It's like college and dorms.
Well Apple is demanding they produce the goods at the lowest possible price, so this is a consequence of that.
For supposedly premium products, why does Apple use a low tier manufacturer like Foxcon? Their motherboards not well regarded in the PC world, so I doubt things are different with Apple. Mac do seem to have very high rates of logic board failure.
Apple (and every other company) demands the same thing of Intel and every other supplier, and customers demand the same thing of every company in the world. We all want the best product we can get for the lowest price. That doesn't mean that we're all responsible for the Chinese government's unwillingness to pass and enforce labor laws.
It may not be Apple's responsibility per se, but that doesn't not mean they have to sit idly by. They are in a unique position to apply pressure and affect change. They could really take the lead here as far as computer companies go like they have with their "green" initiatives. You are paying a premium for a "boutique" computer. It would be nice to see that extra expense be leveraged for a program like this.
And they are doing more than any other tech company that uses these suppliers. Apple did their own investigation and published the findings -- findings that were not at all flattering. Apple is doing more than their fair share. Frankly, the Chinese government should be embarrassed that Apple feels the need to do it at all. Whose responsibility is it to protect Chinese citizens -- a foreign multinational company or the Chinese government? Can you imagine if US workers had to rely on Toyota to force an American tire supplier to follow US law because the US government was so completely negligent in its duties?
By the article you quote it is 14.8 for women + 13 for men = almost 28/100,000 population (assuming roughly equal number men/women).
No, 14.8 per 100,000 women + 13 per 100,000 men == 27.8 per 200,0000 or ~14 per 100,000
Apple needs to move its manufacturing to the US and invest heavily in automation. There no justification to use economic slavery in the quest for profits. Especially for a company with $30-40B in cash. There are a lot of states in the US that do not have relatively low labor cost, and no state income taxes.
As noble a thought as that is, the smart people at Apple would have done that if it were feasible. What you morons fail to notice is that while almost all of the other consumer electronics engineering has moved outside of the states, Apple develops these products in Cupertino. Stop vilifying this company, holding it to a ghost standard. Hold other companies to Apple's standard, let's start there.
"Among other things, Foxconn produces the Mac mini, the iPod, the iPad, and the iPhone for Apple Inc.; Intel-branded motherboards for Intel Corp.; various orders for American computer manufacturers Dell and Hewlett-Packard; motherboards for UK computer manufacturer Zoostorm; the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 for Sony; the Wii for Nintendo; the Xbox 360 for Microsoft, cell phones for Motorola, the Amazon Kindle, and Cisco equipment.[2][3][4][5]"
The trolls (journalists?) seem to leave this little fact out when bashing Apple for this unfortunate state of affairs.
Apple needs to move its manufacturing to the US and invest heavily in automation. There no justification to use economic slavery in the quest for profits. Especially for a company with $30-40B in cash. There are a lot of states in the US that do not have relatively low labor cost, and no state income taxes.
Also, I bet you're the same dude who will balk at paying full price for cellphones, balk at airfares in America, balk at the cost of American made goods. You can't have it both ways. You also can't wait till someone gets successful and then demand that they share their bounty with you. While I'm no ardent supporter of Ayn Rand's brand of objectivism, your situation reminds of the Atlas Shrugged story, where people demanded to ride on the backs and strong shoulders of the few people that actually bothered to do something.
That said foxconn suicide rate is still way lower than their national suicide rate, and lower than a lot of tec companies. Ask France telecom who have the count of 30+ if I remember correctly.
But of course a lot of money is spent nowadays to the press by competitors to throw dirt at apple, since they can't put any decent product on the market. I am sure if someone tracked ms, intel, dell, google etc. they past 6 months they will have their fair share of suicides, if they didn't it would defy international statistics on suicides.
Anyway, people are not numbers, so above all rip to the deceased .
Yes. A friend of mine here is an exchange student from Beijing. She told me that the single-child policy is still in effect.
it is one child policy mostly in city while not applicable to minority. in countryside, it is pretty much that this policy is ignored widespread. those working in foxconn mostly come from country instead of city.
Before you start spouting those statistics, you should read the story of what life is like for those workers. I would kill myself too if I lived like that.
http://gizmodo.com/5542527/undercove...s-hell-factory
Perhaps Foxconn's suicide rate is high among such factories or perhaps this is a focus on Apple, but he made no claim that the conditions are good or acceptable by our standards. He merely pointed out that it's still well below the national average.
Lastly, why are you all so quick to defend Apple? I'm sure you all would gladly pay another $20 to have things made in the USA. Heck, its a selling point in this high unemployment era. Especially with all the billions in cash laying around.
There have been living wage initiatives with coffee, why not computers?
Apple needs to move its manufacturing to the US and invest heavily in automation. There no justification to use economic slavery in the quest for profits. Especially for a company with $30-40B in cash. There are a lot of states in the US that do not have relatively low labor cost, and no state income taxes.
I guess we can take you off the list of the "People Who Know Something About The Tech Biz List"
NOBODY is manufacturing CE and/or computer gear in the US.
You MIGHT still find SUPER EXPENSIVE signature audiophile / videophile stuff still made in the US but when they charge $15,000 for a DVD player or $60,000 for a pair of front speakers then I guess they certainly could afford to have em made in the US but I defy you to find any big-name competitively priced CE products that are MADE in the US. However, even those high priced companies have finally gone overseas too. Oh and IMPORTING a bunch of pre-assembeled circuit boards, screwing them into a case (made who knows where) and tacking on a power supply (also made who knows where) does NOT count as 'Made in USA'.
I guess we can take you off the list of the "People Who Know Something About The Tech Biz List"
NOBODY is manufacturing CE and/or computer gear in the US.
You MIGHT still find SUPER EXPENSIVE signature audiophile / videophile stuff still made in the US but when they charge $15,000 for a DVD player or $60,000 for a pair of front speakers then I guess they certainly could afford to have em made in the US but I defy you to find any big-name competitively priced CE products that are MADE in the US. However, even those high priced companies have finally gone overseas too. Oh and IMPORTING a bunch of pre-assembeled circuit boards, screwing them into a case (made who knows where) and tacking on a power supply (also made who knows where) does NOT count as 'Made in USA'.
Wrong, intel has one in Arizona
The World Health Organization indicates the nationwide suicide rate in China is something like 14 per 100,000 people. Foxconn's 10 out of 300,000 in one year is actually lower than that.
For the U.S., the National Institute of Mental Health at the NIH reports an annual suicide rate of 10.9 per 100,000 people. The average age of Foxconn workers is probably below the average age of all U.S. citizens, though. For young adults in the U.S., the suicide rate is higher than for the general population, at 12.5 per 100,000 in young adults ages 20-24. For adolescents in the U.S., the rate drops to 8.2 per 100,000, which is still much worse than Foxconn's apparent suicide rate.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publi...on/index.shtml
Doesn't China have like a law that prohibits its citizens from having more than two children?
I don't know if that's still true. But China must have a law like we do in the U.S. that prohibits suicide.
I don't know if that's still true. But China must have a law like we do in the U.S. that prohibits suicide.
They must have, but hey also have a living reality that promotes it...
Before you start spouting those statistics, you should read the story of what life is like for those workers. I would kill myself too if I lived like that.
http://gizmodo.com/5542527/undercove...s-hell-factory
Yeah, let's not get carried away with facts when a bit of "unbaised" journalism will shed more light!
More food for thought: have you seen how dismal the average Chinese citizens' life is? Not everywhere in China is like glittering Hong Kong or bustling Shanghai.