I have to wonder what "valid" means at those wages. and I wonder if Foxconn themselves are going to absorb that 20% labor cost increase. odd too is how Apple is the only US electronics company getting a black eye over the human cost of this facet of globalization. for an interesting look at remotely-located work forces google the Yes Men's PowerPoint presentation from Tampere, Finland.
so if I understand you, you're saying that my statements following my use of "look it" are false. If so, then I guess people who come here are not looking for knowledge? And if Apple Insider folks did not approve of my comments they wouldn't ban me? Whatever Stevie...have a nice day.
He he .. could not resist this ... (Not wanting get between you and Stevie whom I thank for the explanation- btw, what part of the planet is that used in, sounds more UK than US) ... but isn't that a non sequitur? Why would suggesting what you said after the concatenation might not be accurate be related to people coming here for knowledge?
Also ... I am curious, why the repeated references to being banned? It is pretty hard to be banned here for simply having a friendly discussion about the English language. So rest easy.
Oh, nearly forgit ... coming here for knowledge might be a stretch at times .. (Shhhh I didn't say this) but this is a rumor site.
They don't necessarily have to move manufacturing back to the US. Apple could set up its own manufacturing infrastructure in China or India. This way they keep the profits Foxcon makes and can have better control over manufacturing and labour conditions, etc.
True but I think the reasoning behind the suggestion was to bring manufacturing back the US. History shows what happens when a country loses all its manufacturing base, look at the UK! Once a power house of manufacturing. They rely on invisible earnings today from what I can tell, although they do a pretty good job of it. Their ship building, for example, was lost in great part because the could not compete with the Japanese whose Government heavily subsidized their own yards. No doubt there were many other reasons, but sadly the UK lost out. It would seem a sensible and noble objective to me to bring back lost manufacturing or at least create new modern versions with new technologies here in the US. This is not my area of expertise by any stretch of the imagination so I am happy to be educated on the subject.
Hate to spread more doom and gloom, but it affects a significant portion of our population.
Studies have shown that Mac users have an overall higher education, income and social standing than their PC brethren.
Studies have also shown that the rate of suicide is significantly higher in folks of lower education, income and social standing.
Obviously, correlating the two relationships would indicate that PC users are significantly more likely to do themselves in. This is particularly true when considering other important contributing indices, i.e., stress, mental depression, constipation and flatulence. Four factors that have been irrefutably evidenced to be significantly higher in the DOS/Windows centric and troller populations.
20% hike tells me that they were 17% underpaid for their labor. It means that that 17% used to go to the top management and support their far from communist lifestyles.
I think suicides are one of those problems that really can't be solved by money alone. Instead of paying people more they should just use the money to improve working conditions/ give people more breaks during work time.
Well that'll be great but that also means you'll be paying double or triple for your gadgets. I'm not just talking Apple but others as well.
How can you say that? Apple used to make their products here and minium wage hasn't changed that much for decades. Some polititians argue raising it will send jobs over seas, news flash, things have been made in foreign countries for years.
When the US told Japan no more military after the war, pearl harbor, while we were busy building up our armies Japan had the edge for a long time as they invested in technology. Now they own universal to everything in between and I remember telling my wife 10 years ago when we would go to Target, look at where 90% of this stuff is made. This is really going to hurt us one day. Flash forward to present day and at the same time, American cars under $25,000 compared to a japanies car stunk and fell apart in exactly three years. By design.
I think the problem is not that typical Americans aren't willing to work for decent wages, it's that the freaking top guys aren't willing to work for less than $hundreds of millions.
The CEOs of all of these Americans companies are freaking greedy SOBs that don't give a crap about America, suicides in China, or anything else. They only care about themselves...
Are you sure about this? I read that FoxConn has 425,000 employees there. That makes it a little smaller than a city the size of San Jose or even San Francisco; but,I don't think those cities have suicide over 10 suicides a year, do they?
There are *universities* that have 10 suicides per year.
While I would love to see that happen , What would an iPhone cost if it were made in the US?
Glad that high profile companies are looking into this.
Have to wonder what is so bad that you would kill yourself over a Job
Perhaps they are not killing themselves over a job. There are a lot of chemicals out there that have known side effects such as depression and suicidal thoughts and behaviors. Just look at all the psychiatric drugs and the mass suicide/muders that are going on in the US. Almost every one of those cases involved a kid on drugs or coming off them.
I am sure poor work conditions don't make for a happy life either. I can't imagine the shitty working conditions these people deal with daily. I'm sure there are a lot of factors involved, the working environment is only one small aspect of the overall problem.
I like how the title of this article ties two unrelated issues into one. The readers are lead to believe the 20% raise is related to the suicides, after all it is in the same sentence. As though the raise is an incentive not to commit suicide or some other simple yet idiotic conclusion that I am sure most readers made. I'm not calling most readers simple or idiots, but the author is trying to draw a parallel and hoping to cajole readers in to buying it.
Gotta love mass media and their attempts to manipulate people and the way they think.
400,000 or 800,000 employees, depending on the source.
How does that affect your comparison?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie
400,000 is the number being quoted.
You may want to stop making guesses now.
Folks are funny how they take part of a comment and try to say something smart-a about it and ignore everything else said. It doesn't change my comparison, if you read further I also said it's like Wichita vs the entire US. So, 400k vs 1.3 billion or whatver the current number is now is still the same. To me (and you may disagree and that's fine) it does not compare to say Fxcn is a microcosm of the entire China population.
I am free to guess especially when I already made it clear I don't know their employees numbers. Yet, even if 400k that is not the number of workers putting the devices together that number also includes admins, office folks, but yes I was clearly wrong and took a guess.
The suicide rate at FoxConn is actually lower than the US average. It is FAR, FAR lower than the average suicide rate in China.
See how a little perspective alters that sense of outrage?
Yes, lets quote statistics gathered from who? Chinese officials? I understand these "facts" may have been published by US or international publications, but do they have people on the ground in China getting actual data? No.
Their economic data is horrible and their manipulation of anything image related is well known (Olympics anyone?)
Well that'll be great but that also means you'll be paying double or triple for your gadgets. I'm not just talking Apple but others as well.
The problem with this sentiment is that it puts the blame for costs of devices on the workers. What people fail to realise is that the prices could be relatively the same by producing in the same country.
No customs duties, no import tax, no cost of shipping, full control over sensitive designs, full control over employees.
Saying that paying employees more to work in the States will increase the cost of the devices is ridiculous and insulting to workers. In fact it would have a better impact on the economy. But people are too retarded to see this fact because the world is run by small minded accountants and people looking for quick profits rather than longer term profits which will actually pay off with bigger dividends.
People ruled by money lack any form of vision. No accountant has ever changed the world for the better.
Are you sure about this? I read that FoxConn has 425,000 employees there. That makes it a little smaller than a city the size of San Jose or even San Francisco; but,I don't think those cities have suicide over 10 suicides a year, do they?
Probably not. It might be more like 10 a month in San Francisco or San Jose.
I have to say this comment makes absolutely no sense. Cities have suicides and attempted suicides all the time and yet because one company that is the size of a small city has 10 in one year it's evil and needs to have something done about it? Why isn't something being done in the real cities? They must be more evil if they have higher suicide rates and yet because it's a company they have a moral right to sort this out? What about the mayors of those cities? Don't they have a moral right to look after their constituents?
Even Jesus Christ himself said, "The poor will always be with us" and he was the quintessential communist of all time.
Damn... Americans really need to look up communism and socialism before they use these terms.
America's ideas about Communism and Socialism are misguided at best and it's all because of the Cold War.
Capitalism is NOT better than Communism and Socialism and coming from an old Socialist nation (New Zealand) that is moving towards a Capitalist nation I can assure you Capitalism sucks for EVERYONE.
We used to have a thriving nation that worked hard and played harder now we have a nation of wimps that like to suck back on a latte, get paid for doing nothing, and screw each other over. We used to have a nation where we knew our neighbours and we kept our doors unlocked now our homes look like prisons and we look at our neighbours with suspicion.
Thanks America for bringing Capitalism to our nation. You've clearly made it a great place to live... NOT.
I've said this before, time for Apple to take the lead and move production back to the USA.
Point well taken.Plenty of people that need jobs in the U.S. would be excited & happy to work
for Apple. While AMERICANS would be excited to buy a product thats actually made in the U.S. While the jobs would not be top paying jobs, they still would have a long line of applicants.
Comments
People really still think that money solves every thing I guess...
(I'm betting it is cheaper to give them a 20% raise than fix the real issues)
so if I understand you, you're saying that my statements following my use of "look it" are false. If so, then I guess people who come here are not looking for knowledge? And if Apple Insider folks did not approve of my comments they wouldn't ban me? Whatever Stevie...have a nice day.
He he .. could not resist this ... (Not wanting get between you and Stevie whom I thank for the explanation- btw, what part of the planet is that used in, sounds more UK than US) ... but isn't that a non sequitur? Why would suggesting what you said after the concatenation might not be accurate be related to people coming here for knowledge?
Also ... I am curious, why the repeated references to being banned? It is pretty hard to be banned here for simply having a friendly discussion about the English language. So rest easy.
Oh, nearly forgit ... coming here for knowledge might be a stretch at times .. (Shhhh I didn't say this) but this is a rumor site.
Not to be hyper-technical, but actually, you have now been gratiated.
They don't necessarily have to move manufacturing back to the US. Apple could set up its own manufacturing infrastructure in China or India. This way they keep the profits Foxcon makes and can have better control over manufacturing and labour conditions, etc.
True but I think the reasoning behind the suggestion was to bring manufacturing back the US. History shows what happens when a country loses all its manufacturing base, look at the UK! Once a power house of manufacturing. They rely on invisible earnings today from what I can tell, although they do a pretty good job of it. Their ship building, for example, was lost in great part because the could not compete with the Japanese whose Government heavily subsidized their own yards. No doubt there were many other reasons, but sadly the UK lost out. It would seem a sensible and noble objective to me to bring back lost manufacturing or at least create new modern versions with new technologies here in the US. This is not my area of expertise by any stretch of the imagination so I am happy to be educated on the subject.
so if I understand you, you're saying that my statements ...
No. Not your statements. Usually.
Hate to spread more doom and gloom, but it affects a significant portion of our population.
Studies have shown that Mac users have an overall higher education, income and social standing than their PC brethren.
Studies have also shown that the rate of suicide is significantly higher in folks of lower education, income and social standing.
Obviously, correlating the two relationships would indicate that PC users are significantly more likely to do themselves in. This is particularly true when considering other important contributing indices, i.e., stress, mental depression, constipation and flatulence. Four factors that have been irrefutably evidenced to be significantly higher in the DOS/Windows centric and troller populations.
I think suicides are one of those problems that really can't be solved by money alone. Instead of paying people more they should just use the money to improve working conditions/ give people more breaks during work time.
Come on you know Apple would revolutionize the industry of automated manufacturing! What's more the robots would be gorgeous
didn't steve jobs try this with next before?
probably too ahead of its time back then...
Well that'll be great but that also means you'll be paying double or triple for your gadgets. I'm not just talking Apple but others as well.
How can you say that? Apple used to make their products here and minium wage hasn't changed that much for decades. Some polititians argue raising it will send jobs over seas, news flash, things have been made in foreign countries for years.
When the US told Japan no more military after the war, pearl harbor, while we were busy building up our armies Japan had the edge for a long time as they invested in technology. Now they own universal to everything in between and I remember telling my wife 10 years ago when we would go to Target, look at where 90% of this stuff is made. This is really going to hurt us one day. Flash forward to present day and at the same time, American cars under $25,000 compared to a japanies car stunk and fell apart in exactly three years. By design.
Sad, very sad!!
I think the problem is not that typical Americans aren't willing to work for decent wages, it's that the freaking top guys aren't willing to work for less than $hundreds of millions.
The CEOs of all of these Americans companies are freaking greedy SOBs that don't give a crap about America, suicides in China, or anything else. They only care about themselves...
So true.
Are you sure about this? I read that FoxConn has 425,000 employees there. That makes it a little smaller than a city the size of San Jose or even San Francisco; but,I don't think those cities have suicide over 10 suicides a year, do they?
There are *universities* that have 10 suicides per year.
Suicides by state (2007):
http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseac...C1494E2FADB8EA
While I would love to see that happen , What would an iPhone cost if it were made in the US?
Glad that high profile companies are looking into this.
Have to wonder what is so bad that you would kill yourself over a Job
Perhaps they are not killing themselves over a job. There are a lot of chemicals out there that have known side effects such as depression and suicidal thoughts and behaviors. Just look at all the psychiatric drugs and the mass suicide/muders that are going on in the US. Almost every one of those cases involved a kid on drugs or coming off them.
I am sure poor work conditions don't make for a happy life either. I can't imagine the shitty working conditions these people deal with daily. I'm sure there are a lot of factors involved, the working environment is only one small aspect of the overall problem.
I like how the title of this article ties two unrelated issues into one. The readers are lead to believe the 20% raise is related to the suicides, after all it is in the same sentence. As though the raise is an incentive not to commit suicide or some other simple yet idiotic conclusion that I am sure most readers made. I'm not calling most readers simple or idiots, but the author is trying to draw a parallel and hoping to cajole readers in to buying it.
Gotta love mass media and their attempts to manipulate people and the way they think.
$131 per month compared to $1160 in the USA at minimum wage? Not gonna happen.
If any production ever moves back here it would be for automated production lines.
400,000 or 800,000 employees, depending on the source.
How does that affect your comparison?
400,000 is the number being quoted.
You may want to stop making guesses now.
Folks are funny how they take part of a comment and try to say something smart-a about it and ignore everything else said. It doesn't change my comparison, if you read further I also said it's like Wichita vs the entire US. So, 400k vs 1.3 billion or whatver the current number is now is still the same. To me (and you may disagree and that's fine) it does not compare to say Fxcn is a microcosm of the entire China population.
I am free to guess especially when I already made it clear I don't know their employees numbers. Yet, even if 400k that is not the number of workers putting the devices together that number also includes admins, office folks, but yes I was clearly wrong and took a guess.
(silly people)
Facts are such funny things.
The suicide rate at FoxConn is actually lower than the US average. It is FAR, FAR lower than the average suicide rate in China.
See how a little perspective alters that sense of outrage?
Yes, lets quote statistics gathered from who? Chinese officials? I understand these "facts" may have been published by US or international publications, but do they have people on the ground in China getting actual data? No.
Their economic data is horrible and their manipulation of anything image related is well known (Olympics anyone?)
Well that'll be great but that also means you'll be paying double or triple for your gadgets. I'm not just talking Apple but others as well.
The problem with this sentiment is that it puts the blame for costs of devices on the workers. What people fail to realise is that the prices could be relatively the same by producing in the same country.
No customs duties, no import tax, no cost of shipping, full control over sensitive designs, full control over employees.
Saying that paying employees more to work in the States will increase the cost of the devices is ridiculous and insulting to workers. In fact it would have a better impact on the economy. But people are too retarded to see this fact because the world is run by small minded accountants and people looking for quick profits rather than longer term profits which will actually pay off with bigger dividends.
People ruled by money lack any form of vision. No accountant has ever changed the world for the better.
Are you sure about this? I read that FoxConn has 425,000 employees there. That makes it a little smaller than a city the size of San Jose or even San Francisco; but,I don't think those cities have suicide over 10 suicides a year, do they?
Probably not. It might be more like 10 a month in San Francisco or San Jose.
I have to say this comment makes absolutely no sense. Cities have suicides and attempted suicides all the time and yet because one company that is the size of a small city has 10 in one year it's evil and needs to have something done about it? Why isn't something being done in the real cities? They must be more evil if they have higher suicide rates and yet because it's a company they have a moral right to sort this out? What about the mayors of those cities? Don't they have a moral right to look after their constituents?
Even Jesus Christ himself said, "The poor will always be with us" and he was the quintessential communist of all time.
Damn... Americans really need to look up communism and socialism before they use these terms.
America's ideas about Communism and Socialism are misguided at best and it's all because of the Cold War.
Capitalism is NOT better than Communism and Socialism and coming from an old Socialist nation (New Zealand) that is moving towards a Capitalist nation I can assure you Capitalism sucks for EVERYONE.
We used to have a thriving nation that worked hard and played harder now we have a nation of wimps that like to suck back on a latte, get paid for doing nothing, and screw each other over. We used to have a nation where we knew our neighbours and we kept our doors unlocked now our homes look like prisons and we look at our neighbours with suspicion.
Thanks America for bringing Capitalism to our nation. You've clearly made it a great place to live... NOT.
I've said this before, time for Apple to take the lead and move production back to the USA.
Point well taken.Plenty of people that need jobs in the U.S. would be excited & happy to work
for Apple. While AMERICANS would be excited to buy a product thats actually made in the U.S. While the jobs would not be top paying jobs, they still would have a long line of applicants.
GREAT IDEA FOR APPLE.