Yep, what a ripoff! I was considering moving from Verizon to AT&T just to get an iPhone, but now I'm definitely going to stick with Verizon and hope they get the iPhone soon. If not, Droid here I come... This just proves there's no real competition out there in the mobile wireless market. It's Verizon, AT&T, and pretty much all the non-players in the market who don't have enough infrustructure - and we all suffer.
I suggest you wait until after WWDC 2010 to make that decision
A reasonable rate for the new plans would have been:
1. 100MB plan: $10 for the first 100MB, $5 for each additional 100MB
2. 1GB plan: $20 for the first 1GB, $5 for each additional GB
These plans would cost exactly the same as what is being offered by AT&T for 200MB and 2GB usage levels, but they would be much more practical (and attractive) for light and medium/heavy users of bandwidth. Yes, using 5GB would cost $40 instead of $30, but one could argue that it would have been a fair rate increase for bandwidth hoggers who would most likely use more WiFi and less 3G as a result...
"bandwidth hoggers" are you kidding me? I use the 3G service I bought. I have a right to that bandwidth that I am PAYING FOR. I am not STEALING or doing any thing HORRIBLE for using the bandwidth I PAY for. Bandwidth continues to get cheaper but AT&T & others continue to charge MORE and spend less on upgrading their networks.
I'm surprised you are not pissed at AT&T for charging you more than the bandwidth you use. But as such they have convinced you that they can still charge you allot and give you less so they can make their billions.
I don't buy that tethering argument. You paid for what the phone could consume. Not your computer's consumption appetite.
Free mints in a restaurant: you put a couple in your pocket. You don't bring in a wheelbarrow and demand all the mints in the storeroom.
But perhaps if you paid for 5 mints, you should expect to take 5 mints or 2 mints or 1 mint, regardless of how you use them. You wouldn't expect to be charged extra because you only ate 1 and gave the rest to your kids.
You know with as many 4G iPhones and iPads that are projected to sell AT&T network is in no condition to widely offer that type of usage.
Somewhere or other Steve was quoted as saying that AT&T would have improvements to the network by late this summer. Elsewhere he has been quoted as "disappointed" with the state of the AT&T network.
Let's face it, AT&T has oversold the capability of their network. It is like an airline the overbooks the seats on a flight. When 200 people show up for a flight that has 150 seats there is a problem.
The similarity is that the airline knows (statistically speaking) that there will be a certain number of people who do not show up for one reason or another and an aircraft that files with an empty seat is revenue which is lost forever. (With the reduced flight schedules that all the airlines are operating these days, occupancy rates are rather higher though.)
When AT&T sells X number of subscribers in a given market, they are assuming that not everyone is going to pick up their phone to use it at the same time. (This is part of why the phone systems crash when there is an emergency and everyone does pick up their phones to use them at the same time.) The question is just how much underlying capacity there is and to what extent has AT&T "overbooked" the network.
Several people have commented about using the AT&T Wi-Fi facilities. When convenient, I have no problem with that, but access to the wireless network is what I have purchased. Frequently, their Wi-Fi facilities are not reasonably available. AT&T also needs to have a better system to allow you to find their Wi-Fi facilities than when I had an iPhone. Some of the ones that I have used with a laptop were simply terrible. Dial-up would have been an improvement.
Although it is reported that Apple and AT&T are tied to a 5 year exclusivity deal, Apple needs to find a way to get out of it...and soon. If AT&T wants to keep customers they need to improve the quality of the service and "get real" about data. 2 GB is nothing.
It's true they did not continue with the same dollar amount per MB, but their isn't much of a need too as their is no intrinsic dollar value for a MB. It's whatever the market is willing to pay. For most people $15 for 200MB will be reasonable.
AT&T knows data use will increase and is the exact reason why they are placing these limitations. It's an economic insentive to do heavy media downloads over WiFi.
are you kidding me. The first time a person gets and overage bill for $100 since they didn't realize how much data they used to watch a base ball game on the MLB app, there are going to flip!!!!!!!
That makes no sense. The resolution of your display is not a factor of the data being sent servers. Along with 4x the pixels, the next iPhone will likely be able to stream 720p video from Hulu and other sites, but that has to do with the processing abilities, not the display. On a 3.5" display streaming in 480p will be sufficient.
Streaming in 480p takes up a lot of data very quickly. As it is YouTube was already streaming at lower quality than on wifi and it was noticeable on a 480x320 screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
What about them?
Umm…these are things that are the future of Apple, the iPhone and iTunes. What exactly is the point of having cloud-based content if you can't access it due to a 2GB monthly cap? A person could hit the cap if they played Pandora 30-45 minutes daily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
That also makes no sense. The amount of data used over a cellular network is not indicative of your WiFi usage, app usage, or other features not found in a feature phone. The iPod Touch uses zero data from AT&T and yet that sells well. By your argument that shouldn't sell at all over a feature phone as it has nothing to offer the user.
Unless I'm missing something the main benefits of devices like the iPhone are consumer level media consumption and business. If, like others have said, they are using 150-400mb a month then why buy an iPhone anyway when it was $30/month unlimited? Some of these same people have actually criticized others in the thread who have a problem with this.
Their is nothing cheap about bandwidth. Bandwidth is a finite resource. Until someone figures out how to change the laws of physics their will never be enough of it for everyone to literally use as much as they want.
The wirelsess carriers have to license wireless spectrum from the government for multiple billions. They have to build out infrastrure, exapand coverage, and speed up data downloads. That all costs multiple billions more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteo
"bandwidth hoggers" are you kidding me? I use the 3G service I bought. I have a right to that bandwidth that I am PAYING FOR. I am not STEALING or doing any thing HORRIBLE for using the bandwidth I PAY for. Bandwidth continues to get cheaper but AT&T & others continue to charge MORE and spend less on upgrading their networks.
Exactly how do you plan to Tether your iPad? Jobs said 'No Tethering' about a month ago.
You must be joking, right? I have been tethering my iPad since day one. I take a piss without Steve Jobs giving me permission, and I tether. You need to jailbreak your iPhone, though. But before the original iPhone was released, Mr. Jobs said there would be tethering. IMO, he lied. Or AT&T lied to him. In any case, we were promised tethering. Some people will say - "he didn't say when". I say, BS. We didn't get what we were promised and now that it is announced, we're getting monetarily screwed. Unlimited data plan? Another AT&T lie. So jailbreaking enables me to have what I was originally promised. Even though I'm still well under the data usage outlined in AT&T's rate plan, it's the principle.
Show me a Utility (Gas, Electric, Water) that has an unlimited plan? Would you want that? Would you want everyone to pay the same monthly costs if you use a lot less than the average user?
It does not make sense.....and it doesn't make sense in wireless networking either. I do not want to pay for anyone else's service.
Funny is I posted a comment on the CBC news website when the Canadian data plan were announced, I was defending the 5gig limit because it’s a good way to avoid grief of wireless networks.
I got flame down to the ground… bla bla US plan is much better bla bla. Well, I so ROFL now.
Yep, what a ripoff! I was considering moving from Verizon to AT&T just to get an iPhone, but now I'm definitely going to stick with Verizon and hope they get the iPhone soon. If not, Droid here I come... This just proves there's no real competition out there in the mobile wireless market. It's Verizon, AT&T, and pretty much all the non-players in the market who don't have enough infrustructure - and we all suffer.
First I'm going to call AT&T a flat out lier in that there is NO WAY that 65% of their customers use less than 200MB. Less that 500MB maybe but not 200.
I got tired of waiting for the iPhone on Verizon so I got a Motorola Droid last November. I can upgrade after a year I just don't get the new-every-two money. If I was doing it again today I'd get the Droid Incredible. I hope that the iPhone comes to Verizon so I can switch but if not I'm happy with my Droid.
I'm also hoping that Verizon does not follow AT&T when it comes to pricing at least not with this kind of crappy plan.
What would have been much better to take would have been something list this: Charge $15 for base of 500MB and $25 for a base of 2GB then charge everyone $10 for each additional 1GB if they go over their base. That's something I could live with, I've never gone over 2GB on my Droid, but not this piece of crap their trying to sell.
But perhaps if you paid for 5 mints, you should expect to take 5 mints or 2 mints or 1 mint, regardless of how you use them. You wouldn't expect to be charged extra because you only ate 1 and gave the rest to your kids.
I hear you, but it's not that simple.
Those plans are priced based on a predicted use. If tethering was included for everyone the predicted use would be much higher and we'd all pay a lot more.
What's been happening, I suspect, is that most of us are not coming close to 2GB. Not close at all. And thus MOST of us have been paying way too much.
If we could "eat the mints we paid for any way we want" we'd probably get closer to getting what we paid for. But the predicted use would be higher and so would the plans.
Pricing for a capped max is the problem here, especially when there was only one tier. You can try to eat as much as you can out of spite, but it's not really productive. I think today's change is a step toward letting people pay for what they use, although one more tier between 200MB and 2GB might have been warranted.
I'm also hoping that Verizon does not follow AT&T when it comes to pricing at least not with this kind of crappy plan.
What would have been much better to take would have been something list this: Charge $15 for base of 500MB and $25 for a base of 2GB then charge everyone $10 for each additional 1GB if they go over their base. That's something I could live with, I've never gone over 2GB on my Droid, but not this piece of crap their trying to sell.
Verizon WILL follow, no doubt about it. But maybe they will have a better plan.
Unless I'm missing something the main benefits of devices like the iPhone are consumer level media consumption and business. If, like others have said, they are using 150-400mb a month then why buy an iPhone anyway when it was $30/month unlimited? Some of these same people have actually criticized others in the thread who have a problem with this.
Because people wanted an iPhone and unlimited was the only option available. While I and others and happy to be saving some money each month that doesn't mean others will be happy. It's been aptly stated by AIaddict, AppDev and others, it's designed to force the heavy users off AT&T, which is a win for AT&T and normal users.
First I'm going to call AT&T a flat out lier in that there is NO WAY that 65% of their customers use less than 200MB. Less that 500MB maybe but not 200.....
Remember, it's smartphones, not just iPhones. Makes it more believable.
I was shocked at how low my use was this month, including heavy GPS use on about ten hours of road trips. Under 400MB.
If the original plan was up to 5gb for $30, then maybe a fair solution would be $6 a GB with a 1GB a month minimum and half GB increments. Does that not sound incredibly fair? Then you truly pay for what you use. Just my 2 cents.....
Comments
Yep, what a ripoff! I was considering moving from Verizon to AT&T just to get an iPhone, but now I'm definitely going to stick with Verizon and hope they get the iPhone soon. If not, Droid here I come... This just proves there's no real competition out there in the mobile wireless market. It's Verizon, AT&T, and pretty much all the non-players in the market who don't have enough infrustructure - and we all suffer.
I suggest you wait until after WWDC 2010 to make that decision
Apple has a way of making irresistible products.
A reasonable rate for the new plans would have been:
1. 100MB plan: $10 for the first 100MB, $5 for each additional 100MB
2. 1GB plan: $20 for the first 1GB, $5 for each additional GB
These plans would cost exactly the same as what is being offered by AT&T for 200MB and 2GB usage levels, but they would be much more practical (and attractive) for light and medium/heavy users of bandwidth. Yes, using 5GB would cost $40 instead of $30, but one could argue that it would have been a fair rate increase for bandwidth hoggers who would most likely use more WiFi and less 3G as a result...
"bandwidth hoggers" are you kidding me? I use the 3G service I bought. I have a right to that bandwidth that I am PAYING FOR. I am not STEALING or doing any thing HORRIBLE for using the bandwidth I PAY for. Bandwidth continues to get cheaper but AT&T & others continue to charge MORE and spend less on upgrading their networks.
I'm surprised you are not pissed at AT&T for charging you more than the bandwidth you use. But as such they have convinced you that they can still charge you allot and give you less so they can make their billions.
I don't buy that tethering argument. You paid for what the phone could consume. Not your computer's consumption appetite.
Free mints in a restaurant: you put a couple in your pocket. You don't bring in a wheelbarrow and demand all the mints in the storeroom.
But perhaps if you paid for 5 mints, you should expect to take 5 mints or 2 mints or 1 mint, regardless of how you use them. You wouldn't expect to be charged extra because you only ate 1 and gave the rest to your kids.
the outrage over this is sooo predictable, and so silly.
It's not silly at all for iPad WiFi+3G owners. It's very easy to exceed 2GB on an iPad (over 3G).
You know with as many 4G iPhones and iPads that are projected to sell AT&T network is in no condition to widely offer that type of usage.
Somewhere or other Steve was quoted as saying that AT&T would have improvements to the network by late this summer. Elsewhere he has been quoted as "disappointed" with the state of the AT&T network.
Let's face it, AT&T has oversold the capability of their network. It is like an airline the overbooks the seats on a flight. When 200 people show up for a flight that has 150 seats there is a problem.
The similarity is that the airline knows (statistically speaking) that there will be a certain number of people who do not show up for one reason or another and an aircraft that files with an empty seat is revenue which is lost forever. (With the reduced flight schedules that all the airlines are operating these days, occupancy rates are rather higher though.)
When AT&T sells X number of subscribers in a given market, they are assuming that not everyone is going to pick up their phone to use it at the same time. (This is part of why the phone systems crash when there is an emergency and everyone does pick up their phones to use them at the same time.) The question is just how much underlying capacity there is and to what extent has AT&T "overbooked" the network.
Several people have commented about using the AT&T Wi-Fi facilities. When convenient, I have no problem with that, but access to the wireless network is what I have purchased. Frequently, their Wi-Fi facilities are not reasonably available. AT&T also needs to have a better system to allow you to find their Wi-Fi facilities than when I had an iPhone. Some of the ones that I have used with a laptop were simply terrible. Dial-up would have been an improvement.
Although it is reported that Apple and AT&T are tied to a 5 year exclusivity deal, Apple needs to find a way to get out of it...and soon. If AT&T wants to keep customers they need to improve the quality of the service and "get real" about data. 2 GB is nothing.
It's true they did not continue with the same dollar amount per MB, but their isn't much of a need too as their is no intrinsic dollar value for a MB. It's whatever the market is willing to pay. For most people $15 for 200MB will be reasonable.
AT&T knows data use will increase and is the exact reason why they are placing these limitations. It's an economic insentive to do heavy media downloads over WiFi.
are you kidding me. The first time a person gets and overage bill for $100 since they didn't realize how much data they used to watch a base ball game on the MLB app, there are going to flip!!!!!!!
That makes no sense. The resolution of your display is not a factor of the data being sent servers. Along with 4x the pixels, the next iPhone will likely be able to stream 720p video from Hulu and other sites, but that has to do with the processing abilities, not the display. On a 3.5" display streaming in 480p will be sufficient.
Streaming in 480p takes up a lot of data very quickly. As it is YouTube was already streaming at lower quality than on wifi and it was noticeable on a 480x320 screen.
What about them?
Umm…these are things that are the future of Apple, the iPhone and iTunes. What exactly is the point of having cloud-based content if you can't access it due to a 2GB monthly cap? A person could hit the cap if they played Pandora 30-45 minutes daily.
That also makes no sense. The amount of data used over a cellular network is not indicative of your WiFi usage, app usage, or other features not found in a feature phone. The iPod Touch uses zero data from AT&T and yet that sells well. By your argument that shouldn't sell at all over a feature phone as it has nothing to offer the user.
Unless I'm missing something the main benefits of devices like the iPhone are consumer level media consumption and business. If, like others have said, they are using 150-400mb a month then why buy an iPhone anyway when it was $30/month unlimited? Some of these same people have actually criticized others in the thread who have a problem with this.
2 GB is nothing.
It's a lot more than you think. I was away on vacation for a week.....I surfed/emailed extensively! My data usage for that month?....202MB.
I do not want to pay for someone else's data hogging.
The wirelsess carriers have to license wireless spectrum from the government for multiple billions. They have to build out infrastrure, exapand coverage, and speed up data downloads. That all costs multiple billions more.
"bandwidth hoggers" are you kidding me? I use the 3G service I bought. I have a right to that bandwidth that I am PAYING FOR. I am not STEALING or doing any thing HORRIBLE for using the bandwidth I PAY for. Bandwidth continues to get cheaper but AT&T & others continue to charge MORE and spend less on upgrading their networks.
Exactly how do you plan to Tether your iPad? Jobs said 'No Tethering' about a month ago.
You must be joking, right? I have been tethering my iPad since day one. I take a piss without Steve Jobs giving me permission, and I tether. You need to jailbreak your iPhone, though. But before the original iPhone was released, Mr. Jobs said there would be tethering. IMO, he lied. Or AT&T lied to him. In any case, we were promised tethering. Some people will say - "he didn't say when". I say, BS. We didn't get what we were promised and now that it is announced, we're getting monetarily screwed. Unlimited data plan? Another AT&T lie. So jailbreaking enables me to have what I was originally promised. Even though I'm still well under the data usage outlined in AT&T's rate plan, it's the principle.
It does not make sense.....and it doesn't make sense in wireless networking either. I do not want to pay for anyone else's service.
I got flame down to the ground… bla bla US plan is much better bla bla. Well, I so ROFL now.
Yep, what a ripoff! I was considering moving from Verizon to AT&T just to get an iPhone, but now I'm definitely going to stick with Verizon and hope they get the iPhone soon. If not, Droid here I come... This just proves there's no real competition out there in the mobile wireless market. It's Verizon, AT&T, and pretty much all the non-players in the market who don't have enough infrustructure - and we all suffer.
First I'm going to call AT&T a flat out lier in that there is NO WAY that 65% of their customers use less than 200MB. Less that 500MB maybe but not 200.
I got tired of waiting for the iPhone on Verizon so I got a Motorola Droid last November. I can upgrade after a year I just don't get the new-every-two money. If I was doing it again today I'd get the Droid Incredible. I hope that the iPhone comes to Verizon so I can switch but if not I'm happy with my Droid.
I'm also hoping that Verizon does not follow AT&T when it comes to pricing at least not with this kind of crappy plan.
What would have been much better to take would have been something list this: Charge $15 for base of 500MB and $25 for a base of 2GB then charge everyone $10 for each additional 1GB if they go over their base. That's something I could live with, I've never gone over 2GB on my Droid, but not this piece of crap their trying to sell.
But perhaps if you paid for 5 mints, you should expect to take 5 mints or 2 mints or 1 mint, regardless of how you use them. You wouldn't expect to be charged extra because you only ate 1 and gave the rest to your kids.
I hear you, but it's not that simple.
Those plans are priced based on a predicted use. If tethering was included for everyone the predicted use would be much higher and we'd all pay a lot more.
What's been happening, I suspect, is that most of us are not coming close to 2GB. Not close at all. And thus MOST of us have been paying way too much.
If we could "eat the mints we paid for any way we want" we'd probably get closer to getting what we paid for. But the predicted use would be higher and so would the plans.
Pricing for a capped max is the problem here, especially when there was only one tier. You can try to eat as much as you can out of spite, but it's not really productive. I think today's change is a step toward letting people pay for what they use, although one more tier between 200MB and 2GB might have been warranted.
I'm also hoping that Verizon does not follow AT&T when it comes to pricing at least not with this kind of crappy plan.
What would have been much better to take would have been something list this: Charge $15 for base of 500MB and $25 for a base of 2GB then charge everyone $10 for each additional 1GB if they go over their base. That's something I could live with, I've never gone over 2GB on my Droid, but not this piece of crap their trying to sell.
Verizon WILL follow, no doubt about it. But maybe they will have a better plan.
Unless I'm missing something the main benefits of devices like the iPhone are consumer level media consumption and business. If, like others have said, they are using 150-400mb a month then why buy an iPhone anyway when it was $30/month unlimited? Some of these same people have actually criticized others in the thread who have a problem with this.
Because people wanted an iPhone and unlimited was the only option available. While I and others and happy to be saving some money each month that doesn't mean others will be happy. It's been aptly stated by AIaddict, AppDev and others, it's designed to force the heavy users off AT&T, which is a win for AT&T and normal users.
First I'm going to call AT&T a flat out lier in that there is NO WAY that 65% of their customers use less than 200MB. Less that 500MB maybe but not 200.....
Remember, it's smartphones, not just iPhones. Makes it more believable.
I was shocked at how low my use was this month, including heavy GPS use on about ten hours of road trips. Under 400MB.