$100 increase for Apple's redesigned Mac mini seen as disappointment

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  • Reply 201 of 274
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I love the new design, especially no need for the damn putty knives, although it still seems over-engineered. Access to the RAM looks very easy but I really wanted better access to the HDD. I'll have to wait for the ifixit guys to get on it to see if it's as simple as unscrewing the visible screws under the rubber base.



    I'm disappointed with the price hike, especially with no 7200 rpm drive and still 2GB RAM. If it was even 250GB 7200RPM and 4GB RAM, it would be much better as that's pretty much what the old one cost after upgrading. It's not so much a price hike as just eliminating the lowest model but it still pushes the entry point up and out of some people's reach.



    Having to live with another slow Core 2 Duo isn't great either. There's not much they can do as Intel haven't made affordable quad mobile chips and desktop quads like the i5 and i7 need much bigger PSUs than they'd get into a Mini shell but a 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo option would have been nice for just $100 more. You can buy a quad i5 2.66GHz PC tower for the same price as the dual 2.4GHz Mini so poor CPU performance per dollar.



    At least the 320M makes up for it somewhat and I'm very pleased to see it in the Mini - probably the first time the mini has exceeded the iMac spec. Taking off a USB port wasn't very nice though, I was using that extra port.



    It's great they put the PSU inside - hopefully that doesn't heat it up too much - as that external brick went against the Mini's small size.



    Overall, I was (as Forstall would put it) blown away by the update but the price hike really put a damper on the whole thing for me. Add in the iPhone price hike too and it's just plain depressing. Ah well, since the only Mini you can buy is so expensive now, maybe I'll get a better price for my old one.



    It's just so tiring seeing Apple raising prices in this economy. People have little enough money as it is without raising the entry prices so they have to do without or end up spending more than they can afford and end up struggling to pay off the debt. I could believe that the build costs are higher but they have so much cash reserves right now, is it too much to expect them to cut consumers a little slack?



    Even if they sell 3 million Minis in a year, $100 off each one is a measly $300 million. To a company with over $30 billion, it's nothing because they are still growing the profits, just by $300m less but the lower price means more sales and some of that $300m gets made up from the extra sales.





    Marvin, I mentioned this earlier but I would have liked to see Apple adopt those new hybrid drives. For many users that would have resulted in a noticeable performance improvement.



    From a cost standpoint they look like a tremendous bang for the buck and are kinda perfect for a machine like the mini, and iMac as well.
  • Reply 202 of 274
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    It's just so tiring seeing Apple raising prices in this economy. People have little enough money as it is without raising the entry prices so they have to do without or end up spending more than they can afford and end up struggling to pay off the debt. I could believe that the build costs are higher but they have so much cash reserves right now, is it too much to expect them to cut consumers a little slack?



    That has to be the funniest rational for lower pricing I have ever heard. That is as bad as saying that Apple is largely responsible for putting the world in debt by building great products.
  • Reply 203 of 274
    zc456zc456 Posts: 96member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post


    GAH!



    iPad FAIL.

    Mini FAIL.



    Stop going backwards!



    Drama, much? Not like Apple's computers are cheap anyway.
  • Reply 204 of 274
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    It's just so tiring seeing Apple raising prices in this economy. People have little enough money as it is without raising the entry prices so they have to do without or end up spending more than they can afford and end up struggling to pay off the debt. I could believe that the build costs are higher but they have so much cash reserves right now, is it too much to expect them to cut consumers a little slack?



    Apparently the economic as a whole isn't as bad off as you think it is or they wouldn't have "so much cash reserves" and increasing sales and profit each quarter.



    Unless Apple was the only CE company in a socialized economy then the entire basis of your argument is flawed. People have a choice and most choose not to buy Apple products. Apple has a choice and they choose to focus on the market segment that historically offers lower per unit sales but at a higher price and profit. It just so happens that Apple ha found to way to move large quantities in the top-teir. That's a plus for them, not a negative. The other vendors aren't being altruistic with offerings by any means.



    Quote:

    Even if they sell 3 million Minis in a year, $100 off each one is a measly $300 million. To a company with over $30 billion, it's nothing because they are still growing the profits, just by $300m less but the lower price means more sales and some of that $300m gets made up from the extra sales.



    Apple's last quarterly net profit was $1.67B. Based on your estimated and exampled values Apple would lose about 5% of their overall net profit from just the Mac Mini. That doesn't make sense to me.
  • Reply 205 of 274
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,426member
    The strange thing is, it is over priced as a consumer model IMHO. $499 was a sweet spot for a low end model. Yet it is an amazing price with SL Server unlimited clients! OK I know a DIY or radio shack clunker with Linux is less but hardly in the same league.
  • Reply 206 of 274
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,650member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Philotech View Post


    An increase of EUR 100 = USD 120 might even have been justified (1) compared to the USD 100 increase in the US and/or (2) the slightly better specs and the EUR-USD exchange rate. But USD 245 is just crazy.



    Why do you assume it's just the exchange rate difference? Europe has more regulations which increases Apple's operating costs. Why shouldn't Apple pass those costs back to the countries who's policies generate them?
  • Reply 207 of 274
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by prw View Post


    Apple Store price for a Mac mini, 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500 GB hard drive, Apple Magic Mouse, Apple Wireless Keyboard: $1,037.



    Apple Store price for a 21.5 inch iMac with 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500GB Serial ATA Drive, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) and User's Guide, 8x double-layer SuperDrive, Apple Magic Mouse: $1,199.



    The mini has a NVIDIA GeForce 320M instead of the older 9400M, but the iMac has a 21.5 inch, 1900 x 1080 display built in, for $162 more. And saves desktop space, since the display footprint is likely the same when you hook a display up to the mini. Even if you have a display, mouse and keyboard, I think I would get an iMac. Unless you are hooking it up to an HDTV in your living room.



    This is the comparison I did in the other thread:



    Mac Mini 2010 - $1394 total ($987 for mini)



    2.66Ghz Core 2 Duo

    GeForce 320M

    2GB RAM

    320GB HDD

    Apple Magic Mouse

    Apple Wireless Keyboard



    Dell SP2309 23" HD Widescreen w/webcam 2048x1152 resolution - $219



    Add $188 for upgrades from New Egg



    Seagate Momentus 7200.4 500GB 7200RPM 2.5" SATA $79

    Crucial 2x2GB kit for $109



    --



    Base iMac - $1199 (+ tax and shipping)



    3.06Ghz Core 2 Duo

    GeForce 9400M

    4GB RAM

    500GB HDD

    Apple Magic Mouse

    Apple Wireless Keyboard

    Built in Apple 21.5" display - 1920x1080 resolution



    --



    So for $195 (and a bit of install) you gain:



    320M vs 9400M

    23" 2048x1152 display vs 21.5" 1920x1080 display

    spare 320GB HDD you can use in a cheap external enclosure for TimeMachine.



    You lose



    0.4Ghz CPU



    Yes, the Dell is TN and the 21.5" is IPS. The IPS 23" UltraSharp is $299. There are cheaper 23" monitors but I like the resolution of this 23".



    For me the Mini represents a better value than the 21.5" iMac given the GPU is faster and I can get the screen I want (whether IPS for photo or TN for gaming) with a fairly minimal cost delta.



    Personally, I'd get a 4GB module and 1 GB module for 5GB of RAM in the mini. The OCZ 4GB is down to $119 so it's only $10 more than the 2x2GB although I prefer Crucial over OCZ. At least I'm not throwing away the 2GB sticks if I want 8GB later.



    Now that Apple appears to be refreshing the mini more often the strategy of buying a new mini every year and ebaying the old one for $200 less than you bought it would work. If there is a Core i3 mini in 2011 that makes the mini a much better value over time than a base iMac.



    The higher end iMacs do represent better value but the 2010 mini isn't the worst machine in the line up IMHO.
  • Reply 208 of 274
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,650member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


    Our shop was seriously considering using the minis to run up to three VMware/Windows XP instances and use them as remote-desktop clients. Unfortunately, the Core2-duo in my opinion just will not cut it.



    Is quad core a real requirement or just an assumption on you part? Because in my experience with virtualization, RAM is far more important than CPU - and one thing that I haven't seen discussed much is this unit supports 8 gigs of RAM!



    Unless you are running CPU intensive apps - which you wouldn't be doing under virtualization anyway
  • Reply 209 of 274
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    No worries. You made me reflect for a while, actually.



    Strange times.



    What is next? Quadra developing some anti-Apple sentiments..?
  • Reply 210 of 274
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    1. The Mini is well under $1000, even the Server is still under $1000, as is the MacBook.



    2. It seems obvious, because it's been discussed ad nauseum, that PC prices are decreasing because they are building them cheaper and cheaper, while Apple is building computers better and better. As pointed out earlier in the thread, this out-specs the previous high-end mac Mini, meaning that it ought not be compared to the low-end model, which was basically dropped, so it's essentially a price cut. As also pointed out, it seems to be priced comparably to a similarly spec'd Dell, so it's also competitive with PC pricing. And the Server model is an excellent deal, especially for a small office.



    The argument that their ought to be cheaper Macs effectively amounts to arguing that Apple should build some cheapo hardware to satisfy supposed demand. But I don't see how that would benefit them, and, ultimately, I don't think it would benefit users, either, but just result in a diminished ownership experience.



    Strange, I had feeling Macs recently had much more hardware and built quality related problems than before. They do look better but I can hardly agree that they are actually built any better.
  • Reply 211 of 274
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post


    Because there isn't a significant difference between a 5400 RPM drive and a 7200 RPM drive. I had a 60GB 7200 RPM drive in my PowerBook G4 and switched it for a 120GB 5400 RPM drive and saw no difference in speed. I did see an increase in speed from both drives when I removed the slow 4200 RPM 40 GB drive.



    That could be due to data density on HDD plates (in your case), also HDD cache size and other factors.



    If you compare same generation/same capacity 5400 and 7200 HDDs, you should see the difference.



    I'm yet to replace 5400 HDD in my laptop but my colleague did, and he claims about 20% faster boot time. He has re-imaged new hard drive from his old one, so software is identical.
  • Reply 212 of 274
    tipootipoo Posts: 1,116member
    Thanks for your recent refresh of the Mac Mini. It truly is ground breaking. It's small, lightweight, looks pretty and boasts "killer" integrated graphics. We rejoice at the 100% boost in frame rates for your Steam games, because 20 FPS is defiantly better than 10 - Even on a Mac.



    It sounds so good on paper, I will have to go and get one. I don't mind even paying an extra £110 for a magic mouse and wireless aluminium keyboard. It's the only item like it in it's product segment, and is worthy of the price premium.



    Thanks once again App... Oh, What's this?



    http://www1.euro.dell.com/uk/en/home...=ukdhs1&~ck=mn





    Oh, look - Competition. 1/3 of the price and comes with a keyboard and mouse. But wait, what am I thinking? Sorry Apple, I digress for a moment there. I will still buy the Mac Mini. It makes much more sense after banging my head against my desk a few times.



    In fact, I'll have 2.



    Regards,

    Tipoo
  • Reply 213 of 274
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,658member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Why do you assume it's just the exchange rate difference? Europe has more regulations which increases Apple's operating costs. Why shouldn't Apple pass those costs back to the countries who's policies generate them?



    I haven't been following closely this particular part of the thread, but aren't the prices in Europe all inclusive of VAT, whereas the advertised US prices do not include sales tax. I don't know how much of the difference that would account for, but I don't recall that being discussed.
  • Reply 214 of 274
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,658member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Strange, I had feeling Macs recently had much more hardware and built quality related problems than before. They do look better but I can hardly agree that they are actually built any better.



    Maybe I'm remembering back too far...



    But, the build quality on every mac I've seen in the past few years is way better than any PC that I've come across. Fewer hardware problems as well, from at least my personal experience. And the Mac build quality and design certainly seems far better today (e.g., MacBook Pro) than from earlier in the century (e.g., PowerBook G4). The general PC build quality, not so much, and they've shifted their focus to cheaper and cheaper products. (I mean, we all know this to be the case, it's not like I'm revealing anything new about the industry.)
  • Reply 215 of 274
    longfanglongfang Posts: 258member
    Its surprising how people still don't understand basic economics. The price is not a reflection of how much it costs Apple to make the mini, it's based on how much the market will bear. If Apple believes that they can meet their sales targets at USD699 then thats the price they will charge. If it turns out that the market rejects that price then they'll most likely revise it. As for all the people here who are shouting that it's too high and what not, there's a simple solution, don't buy it, duh.
  • Reply 216 of 274
    cycomikocycomiko Posts: 716member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tipoo View Post


    Thanks for your recent refresh of the Mac Mini. It truly is ground breaking. It's small, lightweight, looks pretty and boasts "killer" integrated graphics. We rejoice at the 100% boost in frame rates for your Steam games, because 20 FPS is defiantly better than 10 - Even on a Mac.



    It sounds so good on paper, I will have to go and get one. I don't mind even paying an extra £110 for a magic mouse and wireless aluminium keyboard. It's the only item like it in it's product segment, and is worthy of the price premium.



    Thanks once again App... Oh, What's this?



    http://www1.euro.dell.com/uk/en/home...=ukdhs1&~ck=mn





    Oh, look - Competition. 1/3 of the price and comes with a keyboard and mouse. But wait, what am I thinking? Sorry Apple, I digress for a moment there. I will still buy the Mac Mini. It makes much more sense after banging my head against my desk a few times.



    In fact, I'll have 2.



    Regards,

    Tipoo





    pity the Zino is powered by a butt slow AMD processor



    stick in all of high priced intel mobile cpu and downsize it all with mobile componentry and dell would only be a little cheaper, like normal.



    Wihtout the aluminium, and OSX



    But the price increase still made me choke a little. I was going to get one, but may rethink that. I can get a core i3 based system with a better GPU for less than that. But not as pretty...



    decisions.
  • Reply 217 of 274
    cycomikocycomiko Posts: 716member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Maybe I'm remembering back too far...



    But, the build quality on every mac I've seen in the past few years is way better than any PC that I've come across.



    that aint saying much...
  • Reply 218 of 274
    sticknicksticknick Posts: 123member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post


    People without kids just don't get it. A movie has to be really bad to be played fewer than 20 times.

    My kids have probably watched Cars a dozen times this year alone.



    I have two small kids and I own maybe a handful DVDs (grandparents don't understand the concept of digital media so we get DVDs for christmas and birthdays) - and they're all covered in sticky fingerprints and scratches... only a couple of them play properly anymore (if we can even find them).



    The Apple TV, on the other hand, is loaded with 3 full seasons of Sesame Street along with countless Elmo and Dora shows and they all play fine and are impervious to little hands.



    All our non-kid movies, TV shows and music collection are on my MBP and streamed to the AppleTV when we want them.



    I don't miss plastic discs at all.



    I paid good money to replace my VHS collection with DVD ... I'm not spending more money re-purchasing everything on Blu-Ray now. Last year I got an AppleTV, ripped my DVDs and then sold the whack of them. What I didn't sell online I dumped off at the latest music/movie trade in shop... did the same with my music collection too.



    You high def nerds can all keep your Blu-Ray.
  • Reply 219 of 274
    masternavmasternav Posts: 442member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    I'm happy I'm not paying £649 for a 'tin' with crap specs.



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    dealing with disillusionment. After all the rah-rah Apple, this is a giggle!



    Oh wait this is the sour side of the lemon bon bon isn't it?!

  • Reply 220 of 274
    copelandcopeland Posts: 298member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    go to best buy and the cheapest PC with a graphics card similar to the Mini's is $650 or so. yes it has more RAM and HD space, but the mini uses laptop parts that are more expensive. Add in bluetooth, wifi and the software and the price is comparable.



    ...



    To be honest I don't know if the MBP did go up during the last update, but I think it didn't. The MBP did receive a similar update

    if not better and didn't go up in price, so my question is where is the difference in those two products from a technical

    point of view that the Mini had to raise by 16%.



    I know that the others don't really have better offers in that form factor. The question the whole discussion hinges on is: Is it necessary

    to make a desktop that small? And now we are in the area of personal taste and how much will you pay for design. I think that at the moment

    the Mini (and the offers of the other competitors) start to get expensive and could slow the rate of adoption.
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