$100 increase for Apple's redesigned Mac mini seen as disappointment

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Comments

  • Reply 221 of 274
    I hate for this to be my first posting, but Apple is wrong by to cover the cost. I believe the market for these machines are students and families that do not have the money for purchase the 'Real' IMac. If they really increased performance and add more... It would be easier to let go of the money.



    I'm not asking for Apple to discontinue but if it's going to be a part of the family, they should all get the same type of roll out. (not just out on the website/But someone from Apple, Steve would be nice, to toot their horns and show why I need this.



    RRisueno
  • Reply 222 of 274
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,615moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    Marvin, I mentioned this earlier but I would have liked to see Apple adopt those new hybrid drives. For many users that would have resulted in a noticeable performance improvement.



    From a cost standpoint they look like a tremendous bang for the buck and are kinda perfect for a machine like the mini, and iMac as well.



    I'm not sold on the hybrid drives. A nice option but it only improves the performance of frequent data, nothing else and the OS caches things too so I don't think there will be much noticeable benefit but there is still some extra cost.



    The main performance increase in the hybrid drives is the use of the 7200RPM speed. Apple use 7200RPM drives in the server model but not the base consumer model. There's not even an option. If it's easy enough to replace, it's not such a big deal but it's added cost on top of the already high starting price.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka


    That has to be the funniest rational for lower pricing I have ever heard. That is as bad as saying that Apple is largely responsible for putting the world in debt by building great products.



    It's like if a really attractive girl decides to parade through a monastery wearing very little clothes. You might say she's doing the guys a favor really but those guys have taken vows. Apple is parading beautiful products in front of people but we have to pay a huge price. In the first case, some would say the girl is behaving irresponsibly.



    It's hard to suggest the same of Apple because ultimately it's a business that has to make money and they may as well profit from its best product yet so it can ride out periods of low innovation but it's tough. I'm not only thinking from a consumer point of view either, I like helping Apple to succeed as I respect what they do but they are pushing their products out of my price limits. I know 5 people who won't be upgrading to the iPhone 4 just because of the price increase but otherwise would have.



    I'm sure there will be enough people to make up for any losses but Apple's philosophy about being 'for the rest of us' changes to 'for the rest of us on upper class pay grades'. The iPhone costs as much as a desktop computer now (well, not Apple's any more).



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism


    Apparently the economic as a whole isn't as bad off as you think it is or they wouldn't have "so much cash reserves" and increasing sales and profit each quarter.



    That generalizes too much. The economy is bad, it's just that it doesn't affect everyone the same. People who are well off will buy Apple products regardless.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism


    The other vendors aren't being altruistic with offerings by any means.



    I would tend to disagree slightly. I'm sure there are some companies who feel they want to improve things for a significant number of people rather than just people who are moderately wealthy. Google being one of them.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism


    Apple's last quarterly net profit was $1.67B. Based on your estimated and exampled values Apple would lose about 5% of their overall net profit from just the Mac Mini. That doesn't make sense to me.



    They don't sell all that many Minis a quarter, they sell 12 million Macs per year and 70-80% are laptops. Their flagship model is the iMac so it'll be 1-2 million Minis per year. They'd make very little loss and gain it back on volume. Even if it was as much as 5% of the profit, 5% hasn't somehow become a high number. That's next to nothing. It's like saying it doesn't make sense to lose 1% of the profit just because it's a loss. It clearly does make sense if you hit a wider market. You might double your market by dropping $100.



    Jobs said that products are packages of emphasis, you choose what to highlight in a products and it will sell on that. The Mini moniker was as much about cost as it is was about size and this new development goes completely against that. They could even have dropped the optical drive and made it another 25% smaller as long as the cost stays at the $499-599 entry price. USB-powered drives are dirt cheap if you really need one.
  • Reply 223 of 274
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member
    Like the upgrade, especially the HDMI. Price here in Japan is OK.
  • Reply 224 of 274
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    That generalizes too much. The economy is bad, it's just that it doesn't affect everyone the same. People who are well off will buy Apple products regardless.



    You started off stating that they "so much cash reserves" they shouldn't be concerned with profits so much. You don't think that is a wild generalization?



    Quote:

    I would tend to disagree slightly. I'm sure there are some companies who feel they want to improve things for a significant number of people rather than just people who are moderately wealthy. Google being one of them.



    Google is far from altruistic. On could argue that taking so much money from the "poorest" people in the world compared to Apple taking it from only the "richest" makes Apple 1/2 Robin Hood. You might say that Google charges you nothing, but they do charge those advertising through them, which are owned by or employee all these poor people you mention.



    But that is irrelevant. If you can afford a product and want it then you buy it. If you can't afford it then you don't buy it. It's how a free market works. I could right a very long list of things that I want that I can't feasibly afford. I do not for one minute feel I am entitled to them simply because they are out of my price range. If you want more things in life then you work harder and smarter to achieve your goals.



    Why should it be Apple's duty to supply one laptop per child for the entire world or are we stopping the humanitarian aspect of for-profit business at a price point more suitable to a specific buyer?



    Quote:

    They don't sell all that many Minis a quarter, they sell 12 million Macs per year and 70-80% are laptops. Their flagship model is the iMac so it'll be 1-2 million Minis per year. They'd make very little loss and gain it back on volume. Even if it was as much as 5% of the profit, 5% hasn't somehow become a high number. That's next to nothing. It's like saying it doesn't make sense to lose 1% of the profit just because it's a loss. It clearly does make sense if you hit a wider market. You might double your market by dropping $100.



    So because they sell less of them they should be okay with making no profit on them? That doesn't make sense and isn't the way business works.



    You say that they'd make up the loss in profit in volume. You don't even speculate this could be an outcome, you state it as a absolute fact. You can't possibly know that.
    Scenario: Apple drops price on Mac Mini to now only make a $10 net profit on each unit sold. How many more Mac Miinis must they sell to break even against the current net profit per unit?
    The rational man would say that Apple knows its market better than we do so. We don't have to like it, but we do have to accept it. Personally, to quote you as I think this is dead on it's a beautifully "over-engineered". My interest likely stops with the iFixit Teardown. I'll never buy it because it's too much money for the performance.







    * They steal from the rich, but haven't got around to giving it to the poor.
  • Reply 225 of 274
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    One step forward and two steps back for the new Mini. It appears that while RAM access has been severely eased you need to completely detach everything and remove the motherboard from the back of the device (not bottom) in order to access the HDD.
  • Reply 226 of 274
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    One step forward and two steps back for the new Mini. It appears that while RAM access has been severely eased you need to completely detach everything and remove the motherboard from the back of the device (not bottom) in order to access the HDD.



    Welcome to the new Apple Mobile, Inc.
  • Reply 227 of 274
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sticknick View Post


    I have two small kids and I own maybe a handful DVDs (grandparents don't understand the concept of digital media so we get DVDs for christmas and birthdays) - and they're all covered in sticky fingerprints and scratches... only a couple of them play properly anymore (if we can even find them).



    DVD's are digital media.



    And maybe you should take control of your children, and your property, I have around 200 Blu-rays, and 350 DVD's, and have children of varying ages, and I have had one DVD fail, and it wasn't the kids that caused it.
  • Reply 228 of 274
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Welcome to the new Apple Mobile, Inc.



    It's impressive in design but it really does seem "over-engineered" like some proof-of-concept design or MIT tech art exhibit.



    Of course, one can argue that it's not engineered enough if yo can't easily access the components with ease.



    I can't wait to see the inside of the case. Is it really a solid piece of aluminium milled on the inside and out. That seems outrageous on the face of it for mass produced consumer electronics.
  • Reply 229 of 274
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    It's hard to suggest the same of Apple because ultimately it's a business that has to make money and they may as well profit from its best product yet so it can ride out periods of low innovation but it's tough. I'm not only thinking from a consumer point of view either, I like helping Apple to succeed as I respect what they do but they are pushing their products out of my price limits. I know 5 people who won't be upgrading to the iPhone 4 just because of the price increase but otherwise would have.



    Are you saying that the 5 people you know won't be upgrading to the iPhone 4 just because of the price increase of the new Mac Mini?



    Or are you saying they won't be buying a BMW because you can't afford one?



    There are countries that try to ensure that their masses have access to products that everyone can afford. Unfortunately, these countries cannot provide a good range of quality products. This is not one of them.
  • Reply 230 of 274
    Here in Europe they tossed on a whopping 250 euro. The basic model was ?549 now it's ?799. That's (after converting):



    699*.812942037 = 568

    799 - 568 = 231 euro



    So we pay 231 euro more then you guys in the United States of Americaland. Which is $284. So we basically pay for an iPod touch 32GB but don't get it..
  • Reply 231 of 274
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Good Fella View Post


    ...don't get it..



    Nope, you don't get it.
  • Reply 232 of 274
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    It's impressive in design but it really does seem "over-engineered" like some proof-of-concept design or MIT tech art exhibit.



    Of course, one can argue that it's not engineered enough if yo can't easily access the components with ease.



    I can't wait to see the inside of the case. Is it really a solid piece of aluminium milled on the inside and out. That seems outrageous on the face of it for mass produced consumer electronics.



    Perhaps you should look at Macworld's first look at the new Mac Mini. It has been up for more than half a day now.



    Interesting that their audience seems to recognize the relevancy of the new configuration. And for a month's daily coffee at Starbucks, the $100 difference is a no brainer.



    I would be highly interested why so many feel that the new Mac Mini should be the same or lower priced than a 16GB iPad.
  • Reply 233 of 274
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    Perhaps you should look at Macworld's first look at the new Mac Mini. It has been up for more than half a day now.



    Interesting that their audience seems to recognize the relevancy of the new configuration. And for a month's daily coffee at Starbucks, the $100 difference is a no brainer.



    I would be highly interested why so many feel that the new Mac Mini should be the same or lower priced than a 16GB iPad.



    Thanks, I apparently missed that one in my RSS feeds.



    Here's the link to the new Mini at MacWorld » http://www.macworld.com/article/1520...10handson.html
  • Reply 234 of 274
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Nope, you don't get it.



    Do tell me what I missed. Apple should release there products here at a fair price. Even 699 (which is still $ to ?) would be fairer.
  • Reply 235 of 274
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Good Fella View Post


    Do tell me what I missed. Apple should release there products here at a fair price. Even 699 (which is still $ to ?) would be fairer.



    It's already been explained ad nauseum in this thread, and pretty much every thread someone complains that the US price is lower than the insert_country price.
  • Reply 236 of 274
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Good Fella View Post


    Here in Europe they tossed on a whopping 250 euro. The basic model was €549 now it's €799. That's (after converting):



    699*.812942037 = 568

    799 - 568 = 231 euro



    So we pay 231 euro more then you guys in the United States of Americaland. Which is $284. So we basically pay for an iPod touch 32GB but don't get it..



    Not in all European countries.



    You have a couple of choices. Move or change your government/private business, monetary and social policies.
  • Reply 237 of 274
    irelandireland Posts: 17,771member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by prw View Post


    Apple Store price for a Mac mini, 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500 GB hard drive, Apple Magic Mouse, Apple Wireless Keyboard: $1,037.



    Apple Store price for a 21.5 inch iMac with 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500GB Serial ATA Drive, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) and User's Guide, 8x double-layer SuperDrive, Apple Magic Mouse: $1,199.



    The mini has a NVIDIA GeForce 320M instead of the older 9400M, but the iMac has a 21.5 inch, 1900 x 1080 display built in, for $162 more. And saves desktop space, since the display footprint is likely the same when you hook a display up to the mini. Even if you have a display, mouse and keyboard, I think I would get an iMac. Unless you are hooking it up to an HDTV in your living room.



    Is Apple trying to force people "up to" an iMac perhaps. I'd argue what Apple's doing here by pricing it so is forcing it to stay a niche product and getting people stupid enough to pay out the money to give them a "HUGE" profit margin markup on the units they do sell. So they are going for low units with huge margins. You can't argue they don't know what they are doing if recent history says anything. What you can say though it that Apple is making a fool out of it's users for trying to convince them it's worth that price. Add on anything to the thing and it becomes outrageous in price.



    If you live in Europe and you buy the new Mac mini you are either too rich to know what to do with your money or you like to throw away money. It's not worth near that price, and even more so if you add-on "stuff". It's a disgrace.
  • Reply 238 of 274
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    If you live in Europe and you buy the new Mac mini you are either too rich to know what to do with your money or you like to throw away money. It's not worth near that price, and even more so if you add-on "stuff". It's a disgrace.



    Live in Europe + Buy a Mac Mini = You are rich and/or stupid.



    Talk of being overpriced: I wonder how many in Europe or anywhere else, would say the same thing for those buying Irish Whiskey.
  • Reply 239 of 274
    irelandireland Posts: 17,771member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    Live in Europe + Buy a Mac Mini = You are rich and/or stupid.



    Talk of being overpriced: I wonder how many in Europe or anywhere else, would say the same thing for those buying Irish Whiskey.



    What?
  • Reply 240 of 274
    steviestevie Posts: 956member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by longfang View Post


    Its surprising how people still don't understand basic economics. The price is not a reflection of how much it costs Apple to make the mini, it's based on how much the market will bear. If Apple believes that they can meet their sales targets at USD699 then thats the price they will charge. If it turns out that the market rejects that price then they'll most likely revise it. As for all the people here who are shouting that it's too high and what not, there's a simple solution, don't buy it, duh.



    Exactly. And the people who compare the price against various Winboxen are too misguided.



    It doesn't matter.



    Apple put this product into its lineup to fill a niche. It will be compared against the customers needs, and it will not be compared against any Windows machine by the target customer. Not often, anyways.



    The price will be compared to the other Macs which are contenders for purchase. This machine is for dedicated Apple people and for people who are technological illiterates. Many of the objections I see here, raging from price to specs, are of lesser importance to the target customers. The first group will buy if it meets their needs. So will the second group.
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