You lost me with the "all users" part. You're saying this has to be an issue for all users for what to happen?
I'm saying if it's a design flaw then pretty much all users would be seeing it - if it's a smaller number, it may be a manufacturing issue affecting only some units (which would be fixed by replacing just those units and not changing the design and replacing all of them).
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillin
1. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
Except that's demonstrably false. You're saying that you can make any phone completely lose signal and drop the call just by holding it in your hand. I just proved that wrong with my old junky phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan
No pejoritive "insist," in fact I used the word "hope." My point was the bumpers solution could not be enforced and I would hope for a better remedy. Allowing for a replacement, just as buyers are able to do now (folks on this board advise buyers to do that now) may prove to be the best recourse for all, including Apple, IF this is a design flaw affecting a substantial number of people and increasingly bad press continues to come down on Apple.
"the bumpers solution could not be enforced" - funny, that sounds like insisting. IF bumpers actually do solve the problem, you really think taking back a million phones is the best recourse for apple?
Assuming the bumpers are a solution, that absolutely could be "enforced". Do we all agree that it would be Super Nice if apple decided to be Super Nice and replace all the phones? Sure. And while they're at it I'd like a years supply of free ice cream and a unicorn, please.
I'll say it again. Assuming that a bumper does solve the problem, apple will not be exchanging all the phones for a new model. Just wait, and you'll see that I am right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mint
So is this the real reason the prototype found in the bar had a rubber bumper on it?
I assume you're mostly kidding but you're on to something - it sounds like Apple had people testing the phone externally use a case to hide it. If that's the case, there may have been very little testing without a case. Which would explain how a problem like this managed to make it out the door instead of being caught by testers.
I doubt they'll "publicly" give away bumpers. They barely want to give away a flimsy screen cloth for a thousand-dollar laptop. So I doubt they'll give away an accessory which already points to the likelihood they knew about the antenna design "problem". That would just draw attention to the fact that they also tried to make a $30 profit from it.
As much as I usually swear by Apple's genius and design prowess, they really screwed up this time. You don't wrap the entire circumference of a small handheld electronic device with a conductive material – no proper insulation – and not expect noticeable disturbances in a multitude of circumstances! No amount of Jonny Iveness can design-away the laws of physics (
A sad moment for Apple's design/engineering team, especially on a weekend when they could've made serious dents in Android, since Android is showing weakness in its deployment-friendliness with its Sprint delays.
Just curious about how bad it really is. I wanted to be an early adopter, but the lines were crazy at midnight. There was no way I was going to wait that long.
Are we talking INSTANT dropped calls every time or do the bars just go down? I find that the bars on my 3Gs fluctuate all the time while talking, but I don't lose the call.
I have two iPhone 4's. Both of them degrade from 4-5 bars to "no service" in about 30 seconds when I hold them. The service returns when I set them down. I can repeat this over and over. The bumper, which cost me $30, seems to have solved this problem. The problem is I hate the bumper and will likely end up shelling out more money for a better case when I find one.
I'm saying if it's a design flaw then pretty much all users would be seeing it - if it's a smaller number, it may be a manufacturing issue affecting only some units (which would be fixed by replacing just those units and not changing the design and replacing all of them).
Completely disagree. You have to look no further than Toyota for a clear example of a technology flaw that does not exhibit itself for all owners (and in fact very few). There is no doubt of a design flaw there, right?
Look, there's little data in, I'm sure we agree. But it is very possible that external conditions contribute to whether the problem is evidenced or not, AT&T signal strength among them. I hope it is a manufacturing defect, I hope replacement of problematic units resolve the problem, but your requirement for "design flaw" is much too restrictive.
Except that's demonstrably false. You're saying that you can make any phone completely lose signal and drop the call just by holding it in your hand. I just proved that wrong with my old junky phone.
Give me any cell phone, I can reproduce the results you see. Also, try standing beneath a cell tower and reproducing the issue.
You are losing cell for the obvious reasons, ignoring this newly observed behavior. If you can completely lose cell, then you don't have great cell to begin with, or there is an issue with the state of the tower and the current number of calls.
You have proved nothing. You have not even approached anything remotely similar to a proof. You are not doing science, you are making invalid conclusions from incomplete observations.
All cell phones always have done this. All of them. Always. They've always done it. No cell phones don't exhibit this behavior. Every cell phone ever made, all currently existing and in use cell phones can be demonstrated to have this signal-loss effect when comparing an untouched cell phone laying still, and then picking it up and waving it around, it will show this behavior. Always. It will never ever not, because it is science, and science doesn't lie, not the way you lie to yourself.
I guess there wont be a recall, my friend happens to be left handed and has a major problem with dropped calls due to this.
He does not want to put his iPhone into a cover, he wants it to be seen, conceited granted, but considering Apple's demographic he is hardly going to be in the minority.
Someone f*cked up good and hard on this one.
i havn't had any problems at all with my iphone4 but if your friend really is having problems the fix is pretty simple, just a piece of clear scotch tape over metal rim of the bottom left corner of the phone. not ideal, but it should work and be barely noticeable.
edit: i bridged it for a good two minutes. lost two bars, web page loaded slower but did not lose reception. took thumb off antennas and the two bars returned and the same web page loaded noticeably faster.
and for the north facing, right handed or ambidextrous 4G owners who insist on holding your Iphone left handed, I know it has been unbearable for you. And I want to personally thank you for bring your plight to our attention. I don't know how you can stand it. Oh, the horror. Apple has done you wrong, and you deserve better than this.
So please return the iPhone immediately for a full money back guarantee...so that the other 99% of us who do not have these issues, who have been waiting and waiting, can get our hands on one.
By the way, I hear Androids are quite good, and many on this website believe it is way better than the new iPhone. I suggest you pick one up now.
HaHa, I Wrote an email to Steve Jobs yesterday stating the antenna issue is due to conductivity (human hand messing up their seam separation) and should offer the bumper case for free.
If I get a reply from him, I will post a follow up.
Same here. I've always had about 3 bars on an iPhone 3G in my house. The new iPhone is crackling, popping and dropping calls regardless of how I hold it. It's so disappointing to have such bad luck. I went through device swap-outs for the same reception problems on my original iphone 3G. It was painful. After 2 exchanges, the 3rd was a charm. Hope I only need 1 exchange this time.
So, since previous versions of the iPhone also had this issue, we can no longer blame AT&T for dropped calls? The real reason for the dropped calls was that us 'dumb' users held the iPhone in our hands....gee....what kind of cell phone manufacturer (Apple) would expect that!
Funny shouldn't they have done all their testing before the release date?
Maybe they would have if Gizmodo didn't steal their test unit...
Back on-topic... I would hate to have to cover up a great looking phone with a rubber bumper. This solution would not work for me, makes the phone look cheesy as does any case or cover IMO. I know many like the protection they offer but I prefer to take my chances.
Comments
You lost me with the "all users" part. You're saying this has to be an issue for all users for what to happen?
I'm saying if it's a design flaw then pretty much all users would be seeing it - if it's a smaller number, it may be a manufacturing issue affecting only some units (which would be fixed by replacing just those units and not changing the design and replacing all of them).
1. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
Except that's demonstrably false. You're saying that you can make any phone completely lose signal and drop the call just by holding it in your hand. I just proved that wrong with my old junky phone.
No pejoritive "insist," in fact I used the word "hope." My point was the bumpers solution could not be enforced and I would hope for a better remedy. Allowing for a replacement, just as buyers are able to do now (folks on this board advise buyers to do that now) may prove to be the best recourse for all, including Apple, IF this is a design flaw affecting a substantial number of people and increasingly bad press continues to come down on Apple.
"the bumpers solution could not be enforced" - funny, that sounds like insisting. IF bumpers actually do solve the problem, you really think taking back a million phones is the best recourse for apple?
Assuming the bumpers are a solution, that absolutely could be "enforced". Do we all agree that it would be Super Nice if apple decided to be Super Nice and replace all the phones? Sure. And while they're at it I'd like a years supply of free ice cream and a unicorn, please.
I'll say it again. Assuming that a bumper does solve the problem, apple will not be exchanging all the phones for a new model. Just wait, and you'll see that I am right.
So is this the real reason the prototype found in the bar had a rubber bumper on it?
I assume you're mostly kidding but you're on to something - it sounds like Apple had people testing the phone externally use a case to hide it. If that's the case, there may have been very little testing without a case. Which would explain how a problem like this managed to make it out the door instead of being caught by testers.
Why do people always have to find something to bitch about?
Because it is so easy. Click reply. Bitch. Bask in the glow of intellectual engagement. I love the internets.
As much as I usually swear by Apple's genius and design prowess, they really screwed up this time. You don't wrap the entire circumference of a small handheld electronic device with a conductive material – no proper insulation – and not expect noticeable disturbances in a multitude of circumstances! No amount of Jonny Iveness can design-away the laws of physics
A sad moment for Apple's design/engineering team, especially on a weekend when they could've made serious dents in Android, since Android is showing weakness in its deployment-friendliness with its Sprint delays.
Just curious about how bad it really is. I wanted to be an early adopter, but the lines were crazy at midnight. There was no way I was going to wait that long.
Are we talking INSTANT dropped calls every time or do the bars just go down? I find that the bars on my 3Gs fluctuate all the time while talking, but I don't lose the call.
I have two iPhone 4's. Both of them degrade from 4-5 bars to "no service" in about 30 seconds when I hold them. The service returns when I set them down. I can repeat this over and over. The bumper, which cost me $30, seems to have solved this problem. The problem is I hate the bumper and will likely end up shelling out more money for a better case when I find one.
Did Jobs say that or was it one of his minions?
Jobs.
I'm saying if it's a design flaw then pretty much all users would be seeing it - if it's a smaller number, it may be a manufacturing issue affecting only some units (which would be fixed by replacing just those units and not changing the design and replacing all of them).
Completely disagree. You have to look no further than Toyota for a clear example of a technology flaw that does not exhibit itself for all owners (and in fact very few). There is no doubt of a design flaw there, right?
Look, there's little data in, I'm sure we agree. But it is very possible that external conditions contribute to whether the problem is evidenced or not, AT&T signal strength among them. I hope it is a manufacturing defect, I hope replacement of problematic units resolve the problem, but your requirement for "design flaw" is much too restrictive.
Jobs.
Hooboy! I didn't catch that earlier. That's just so wrong.
Except that's demonstrably false. You're saying that you can make any phone completely lose signal and drop the call just by holding it in your hand. I just proved that wrong with my old junky phone.
Give me any cell phone, I can reproduce the results you see. Also, try standing beneath a cell tower and reproducing the issue.
You are losing cell for the obvious reasons, ignoring this newly observed behavior. If you can completely lose cell, then you don't have great cell to begin with, or there is an issue with the state of the tower and the current number of calls.
You have proved nothing. You have not even approached anything remotely similar to a proof. You are not doing science, you are making invalid conclusions from incomplete observations.
All cell phones always have done this. All of them. Always. They've always done it. No cell phones don't exhibit this behavior. Every cell phone ever made, all currently existing and in use cell phones can be demonstrated to have this signal-loss effect when comparing an untouched cell phone laying still, and then picking it up and waving it around, it will show this behavior. Always. It will never ever not, because it is science, and science doesn't lie, not the way you lie to yourself.
I guess there wont be a recall, my friend happens to be left handed and has a major problem with dropped calls due to this.
He does not want to put his iPhone into a cover, he wants it to be seen, conceited granted, but considering Apple's demographic he is hardly going to be in the minority.
Someone f*cked up good and hard on this one.
i havn't had any problems at all with my iphone4 but if your friend really is having problems the fix is pretty simple, just a piece of clear scotch tape over metal rim of the bottom left corner of the phone. not ideal, but it should work and be barely noticeable.
edit: i bridged it for a good two minutes. lost two bars, web page loaded slower but did not lose reception. took thumb off antennas and the two bars returned and the same web page loaded noticeably faster.
So please return the iPhone immediately for a full money back guarantee...so that the other 99% of us who do not have these issues, who have been waiting and waiting, can get our hands on one.
By the way, I hear Androids are quite good, and many on this website believe it is way better than the new iPhone. I suggest you pick one up now.
Thank you for your cooperation.
JoeG.
If I get a reply from him, I will post a follow up.
Really interesting read:
http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys...-antennas.html
Funny shouldn't they have done all their testing before the release date?
Maybe they would have if Gizmodo didn't steal their test unit...
Back on-topic... I would hate to have to cover up a great looking phone with a rubber bumper. This solution would not work for me, makes the phone look cheesy as does any case or cover IMO. I know many like the protection they offer but I prefer to take my chances.
Stop talking sense. I've warned you about this before!