5) The fact is, this problem shouldn't be happening at all, and since it's not happening to everyone it's clearly an isolated issue.
Yeah... but what most fail to recognize is
1. ALL CELL PHONES ALWAYS DO THIS
and
2. ISOLATED REPORTS WITHOUT TOWER DATA ARE MEANINGLESS
So ... what it clearly is is not clear. We have reports with no frame of reference. A lot of them. All these reports are meaningless. They speak nothing at all towards whether there is something wrong with iPhone 4, or just their iPhone 4, or nothing wrong at all.
I have an issue when using landscape mode my reception drops almost immediately. But if hold the phone in my left hand (still landscape) everything is ok.
I don't use a case as I like the naked feel when using the phone. I'll wait a bit in case there is an update from Apple, otherwise back to my 3G S which was happy in landscape mode.
It seems incontrovertible that Apple simply is not test devices in any meaningful way or in a way that any reasonable consumer would use the devices. It seems self-evident that a consumer would cradle the expensive little thing so that it would not slip out of their hand and break on the floor.
It seems equally obvious that the present problem was well know to Apple and Steve who simply ignored it. It would not have been at all difficult to have designed the device to avoid this problem or failing that to have included something akin to the bumper with the phone in the first place.
Not only that, but Steve, once again, pumped out misinformation, this time about upgrades. His credibility declines with nearly every presentation he performs.
Apple's responses to these entirely preventable issues have been very disappointing, indeed.
Practically every seasoned member of this forum is calling Jobs on this bullshit. Great, 'cause that's exactly what it is. We're not going to take it Jobs. You might convince the fanboys, but you don't convince the rest of us. No Sir-e-Bob. Fix this properly and stop insulting your users.
2. ISOLATED REPORTS WITHOUT TOWER DATA ARE MEANINGLESS
So ... what it clearly is is not clear. We have reports with no frame of reference. A lot of them. All these reports are meaningless. They speak nothing at all towards whether there is something wrong with iPhone 4, or just their iPhone 4, or nothing wrong at all.
Gizmodo is using their limited power for evil.
1) I'm more likely to take you seriously if you don't use obnoxious markup.
2) Yes, all devices that transmit and receive electromagnetic waves can be blocked. That does not mean that the claims which are highly reproducible are false or within the accepted range of attenuation from the human hand.
3) It would be great to have cell data see if the issue is specific to a particular operating band, RF signal strength range, or some other characteristic or group of characters, but we simply don't it and likely won't until someone can crack the Field Test Mode app in iOS 4.0 (if it's still there at all).
4) I say we have enough data to show there is an issue that it unsuitable for cellphones for those affected. The data does not show there is a design flaw with the iPhone 4. The data leans toward it being a HW issue for those affect, but it's still possible it simply a SW/driver issue (perhaps with one of the TriQuint chips).
Practically every seasoned member of this forum is calling Jobs on this bullshit. Great, 'cause that's exactly what it is.
Except that... everyone is wrong. Maybe Jobs could have been a little less abrasive... but what he said is true, all cell phones can reproduce this effect... yes, even dropping calls completely when you touch a certain spot near the antenna.
If you use your cell phone in areas of poor reception, you will have reduced service.
THAT seems obvious. I'm not sure why everyone is missing this fact.
But those of us that are having signal loss and dropped calls just because we hold our phone in a completely normal fashion have a right to post our experiences about that without being painted in a negative light.
We should not have to so rigorously defend ourselves for report a problem.
Hear hear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
I am going to go to my local Apple store in a couple of hours and return my phone for a new one. Hopefully it won't have the signal loss issue.
Except that... everyone is wrong. Maybe Jobs could have been a little less abrasive... but what he said is true, all cell phones can reproduce this effect... yes, even dropping calls completely when you touch a certain spot near the antenna.
If you use your cell phone in areas of poor reception, you will have reduced service.
THAT seems obvious. I'm not sure why everyone is missing this fact.
What are you shouting for? Are you covering up your own guilt?
Except that... everyone is wrong. Maybe Jobs could have been a little less abrasive... but what he said is true, all cell phones can reproduce this effect... yes, even dropping calls completely when you touch a certain spot near the antenna.
If you use your cell phone in areas of poor reception, you will have reduced service.
THAT seems obvious. I'm not sure why everyone is missing this fact.
Nobody is missing that fact.
Everyone who is complaining is complaining about the antenna design specifically in the iPhone 4 which causes COMPLETE termination of reception and transmission by simply putting ONE FINGER connecting the antennae.
I know "Cult of Mac" members can be impervious to logic, but you can at least accept the above point, can't you? Please, Chillin, give me some sign that you can understand what was written above.
Everyone who is complaining is complaining about the antenna design specifically in the iPhone 4 which causes COMPLETE termination of reception and transmission by simply putting ONE FINGER connecting the antennae.
I know "Cult of Mac" members can be impervious to logic, but you can at least accept the above point, can't you? Please, Chillin, give me some sign that you can understand what was written above.
You're exaggerating, and your evidence is incidental. Most people report degraded signal, not a 'no service' condition. Mine drops 1-2 bars. It's not even annoying. Which is more likely? The folks with loss of signal strength but no interruption of service posting a video on the newsworthy 'youtube', or people with a valid complaint because it affects usage of the phone?
Just because you've found a few video's on the web doesn't mean the problem is all encompassing, nor does it mean that everyone is experiencing an issue.
I know it's hard to contain your excitement, but try hard to remember that?
[QUOTE=solipsism;1662401]1) I'm more likely to take you seriously if you don't use obnoxious markup.
[quote]
mea culpa...
Quote:
I say we have enough data to show there is an issue that it unsuitable for cellphones for those affected. The data does not show there is a design flaw with the iPhone 4. The data leans toward it being a HW issue for those affect, but it's still possible it simply a SW/driver issue (perhaps with one of the TriQuint chips).
or... no issue at all. Again I have to point out that this kind of data, no matter how much there is of it, is isolated, fractured data. It is a data point floating in a void, with tons of other data points floating in their own, isolated and unconnected void...
and you are trying to suck meaning out of it, to make a valid conclusion from it, and that is impossible.
Everyone who is complaining is complaining about the antenna design specifically in the iPhone 4 which causes COMPLETE termination of reception and transmission by simply putting ONE FINGER connecting the antennae.
I know "Cult of Mac" members can be impervious to logic, but you can at least accept the above point, can't you? Please, Chillin, give me some sign that you can understand what was written above.
Yet another seasoned member of the forums keeping it real. What's with these newly registered users who are bat-shit crazy? And who hate anyone pointing out anything bad about this new iPhone.
You're exaggerating, and your evidence is incidental. Most people report degraded signal, not a 'no service' condition. Mine drops 1-2 bars. It's not even annoying. Which is more likely? The folks with loss of signal strength but no interruption of service posting a video on the newsworthy 'youtube', or people with a valid complaint because it affects usage of the phone?
Just because you've found a few video's on the web doesn't mean the problem is all encompassing, nor does it mean that everyone is experiencing an issue.
I know it's hard to contain your excitement, but try hard to remember that?
You just admitted that you're not complaining about it, hence you do not fit the criteria from my post.
or... no issue at all. Again I have to point out that this kind of data, no matter how much there is of it, is isolated, fractured data. It is a data point floating in a void, with tons of other data points floating in their own, isolated and unconnected void...
and you are trying to suck meaning out of it, to make a valid conclusion from it, and that is impossible.
I have to agree. It's too soon to tell if it's hardware, software, or both. I tend to think it's a bit of both. I think the new antenna design probably exaggerates the effect, but the fact that we're seeing this same issue on earlier iPhones after the upgrade to iOS4 leads me to believe they can probably resolve it or greatly reduce it via software update.
You don't say if you are shorting Apple stock, you don't say if you own competitor's stock, you give no sense of how much "much" is. And you still refuse to divulge who you work for. This is hypocrisy indeed!
And, I also note that you still haven't denied your involvement with Glenn Beck in the murder of a girl in 1990. Very clever to use words that imply you don't know him without actually coming right out and denying your association with him.
You sir, look guiltier and guiltier by the second.
No, I'm not shorting Apple stock.
The stock I do have is in a managed portfolio, the content of which changes at the discretion of the manager. I have no idea which stocks make up the portfolio but it's based on property investments.
Much is in the mid 5 figures
I'll tell you who I work for when you tell me who you work for, as I said before. Has Daniel divulged who he works for? You know, Apple? No?
And leaving the best to last, are you going to tell me who Glenn Beck is yet, or is that some state secret?
Yet another seasoned member of the forums keeping it real. What's with these newly registered users who are bat-shit crazy? And who hate anyone pointing out anything bad about this new iPhone.
I apologize for my enthusiasm.
I don't hate someone for finding a problem. I hate that it's false. I hate that people are claiming things they couldn't possibly know, not the people themselves.
I believe it was Wittgenstein that said that you cannot speak about what you do not know.
Yet that is what all these reports are... people who seem to believe that they know what is happening. Yes, I don't doubt that if you touch that spot on your new iPhone, you see reception wobbles, and can get a call to drop. What I am saying is this means nothing, for one, because we don't know, and you don't know, what the tower state is. For two, I can reproduce the effect on any cell phone in existence. This is why I am adamant about all these reports with people with problems. It is nothing more than mass hysteria.
The symptoms do not indicate a problem. It is as clear as that. Maybe there is a problem, but these reports do not tell us anything about it because they are fractured, isolated, and have zero connection to any other report.
You just admitted that you're not complaining about it, hence you do not fit the criteria from my post.
You mean I'm not included in 'Everyone'? Your making generalizations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro
Everyone who is complaining is complaining about the antenna design specifically in the iPhone 4 which causes COMPLETE termination of reception and transmission by simply putting ONE FINGER connecting the antennae.
It is hardly affecting everyone, most have to use a 'death grip' to see any symptoms, and it doesn't cause a complete loss of service for most.
With a name like Chopper I'm picking you're an Aussie. Explains a lot really.
Yes I am Kiwi.
Incidentally I was wrong in that Germany was one of the countries that received the original iPhones. Of course that was 2007 and something tells me Germany isn't one to rest on old technology.
Nope. I'm a Kiwi.
Probably explains just as much though.
Don't know what the bit about Germany means - I guess I missed something in the bowels of this gigantic thread.
May I ask all the 5-10-15 post posters lamenting the iphone and ai's coverage, why the f. did they register on ai in the first place since they dislike the commentary here?
Everyone who is complaining is complaining about the antenna design specifically in the iPhone 4 which causes COMPLETE termination of reception and transmission by simply putting ONE FINGER connecting the antennae.
And that is why yours and others diagnosis is irrational and fallacious. If it's a design flaw then it would be happening to all iPhone 4s. It's not, so it's something else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillin
or... no issue at all. Again I have to point out that this kind of data, no matter how much there is of it, is isolated, fractured data. It is a data point floating in a void, with tons of other data points floating in their own, isolated and unconnected void...
and you are trying to suck meaning out of it, to make a valid conclusion from it, and that is impossible.
If it was just a couple videos or reports it could be faked but there is more than enough data points to conclude there is an issue with some iPhone 4s (not all) that is above and beyond the typical attenuation caused by the human body. Placing your finger in one area of the device shouldn't drop it from 5 bars to No Service within a few seconds. This seems to be a repeatable issue with those affected and I have no reason to believe they are falsified. That is an issue!
What will unfortunately happen is the trolls that make a mountain out of a molehill will undoubtedly cause enough ruckus that will scare those with normal attenuation issues to want support this making it harder for those with legitimate issues to get a new device. Shame on all of them
Comments
5) The fact is, this problem shouldn't be happening at all, and since it's not happening to everyone it's clearly an isolated issue.
Yeah... but what most fail to recognize is
1. ALL CELL PHONES ALWAYS DO THIS
and
2. ISOLATED REPORTS WITHOUT TOWER DATA ARE MEANINGLESS
So ... what it clearly is is not clear. We have reports with no frame of reference. A lot of them. All these reports are meaningless. They speak nothing at all towards whether there is something wrong with iPhone 4, or just their iPhone 4, or nothing wrong at all.
Gizmodo is using their limited power for evil.
I don't use a case as I like the naked feel when using the phone. I'll wait a bit in case there is an update from Apple, otherwise back to my 3G S which was happy in landscape mode.
It seems incontrovertible that Apple simply is not test devices in any meaningful way or in a way that any reasonable consumer would use the devices. It seems self-evident that a consumer would cradle the expensive little thing so that it would not slip out of their hand and break on the floor.
It seems equally obvious that the present problem was well know to Apple and Steve who simply ignored it. It would not have been at all difficult to have designed the device to avoid this problem or failing that to have included something akin to the bumper with the phone in the first place.
Not only that, but Steve, once again, pumped out misinformation, this time about upgrades. His credibility declines with nearly every presentation he performs.
Apple's responses to these entirely preventable issues have been very disappointing, indeed.
Practically every seasoned member of this forum is calling Jobs on this bullshit. Great, 'cause that's exactly what it is. We're not going to take it Jobs. You might convince the fanboys, but you don't convince the rest of us. No Sir-e-Bob. Fix this properly and stop insulting your users.
Yeah... but what you fail to recognize is
1. ALL CELL PHONES ALWAYS DO THIS
and
2. ISOLATED REPORTS WITHOUT TOWER DATA ARE MEANINGLESS
So ... what it clearly is is not clear. We have reports with no frame of reference. A lot of them. All these reports are meaningless. They speak nothing at all towards whether there is something wrong with iPhone 4, or just their iPhone 4, or nothing wrong at all.
Gizmodo is using their limited power for evil.
1) I'm more likely to take you seriously if you don't use obnoxious markup.
2) Yes, all devices that transmit and receive electromagnetic waves can be blocked. That does not mean that the claims which are highly reproducible are false or within the accepted range of attenuation from the human hand.
3) It would be great to have cell data see if the issue is specific to a particular operating band, RF signal strength range, or some other characteristic or group of characters, but we simply don't it and likely won't until someone can crack the Field Test Mode app in iOS 4.0 (if it's still there at all).
4) I say we have enough data to show there is an issue that it unsuitable for cellphones for those affected. The data does not show there is a design flaw with the iPhone 4. The data leans toward it being a HW issue for those affect, but it's still possible it simply a SW/driver issue (perhaps with one of the TriQuint chips).
Practically every seasoned member of this forum is calling Jobs on this bullshit. Great, 'cause that's exactly what it is.
Except that... everyone is wrong. Maybe Jobs could have been a little less abrasive... but what he said is true, all cell phones can reproduce this effect... yes, even dropping calls completely when you touch a certain spot near the antenna.
If you use your cell phone in areas of poor reception, you will have reduced service.
THAT seems obvious. I'm not sure why everyone is missing this fact.
But those of us that are having signal loss and dropped calls just because we hold our phone in a completely normal fashion have a right to post our experiences about that without being painted in a negative light.
We should not have to so rigorously defend ourselves for report a problem.
Hear hear.
I am going to go to my local Apple store in a couple of hours and return my phone for a new one. Hopefully it won't have the signal loss issue.
And if the new one does have the issue?
Except that... everyone is wrong. Maybe Jobs could have been a little less abrasive... but what he said is true, all cell phones can reproduce this effect... yes, even dropping calls completely when you touch a certain spot near the antenna.
If you use your cell phone in areas of poor reception, you will have reduced service.
THAT seems obvious. I'm not sure why everyone is missing this fact.
What are you shouting for? Are you covering up your own guilt?
1. ALL CELL PHONES ALWAYS DO THIS
and
2. ISOLATED REPORTS WITHOUT TOWER DATA ARE MEANINGLESS
You have issues man.
You also have issue with people reporting genuine problems with this new iPhone.
Except that... everyone is wrong. Maybe Jobs could have been a little less abrasive... but what he said is true, all cell phones can reproduce this effect... yes, even dropping calls completely when you touch a certain spot near the antenna.
If you use your cell phone in areas of poor reception, you will have reduced service.
THAT seems obvious. I'm not sure why everyone is missing this fact.
Nobody is missing that fact.
Everyone who is complaining is complaining about the antenna design specifically in the iPhone 4 which causes COMPLETE termination of reception and transmission by simply putting ONE FINGER connecting the antennae.
I know "Cult of Mac" members can be impervious to logic, but you can at least accept the above point, can't you? Please, Chillin, give me some sign that you can understand what was written above.
Nobody is missing that fact.
Everyone who is complaining is complaining about the antenna design specifically in the iPhone 4 which causes COMPLETE termination of reception and transmission by simply putting ONE FINGER connecting the antennae.
I know "Cult of Mac" members can be impervious to logic, but you can at least accept the above point, can't you? Please, Chillin, give me some sign that you can understand what was written above.
You're exaggerating, and your evidence is incidental. Most people report degraded signal, not a 'no service' condition. Mine drops 1-2 bars. It's not even annoying. Which is more likely? The folks with loss of signal strength but no interruption of service posting a video on the newsworthy 'youtube', or people with a valid complaint because it affects usage of the phone?
Just because you've found a few video's on the web doesn't mean the problem is all encompassing, nor does it mean that everyone is experiencing an issue.
I know it's hard to contain your excitement, but try hard to remember that?
[quote]
mea culpa...
I say we have enough data to show there is an issue that it unsuitable for cellphones for those affected. The data does not show there is a design flaw with the iPhone 4. The data leans toward it being a HW issue for those affect, but it's still possible it simply a SW/driver issue (perhaps with one of the TriQuint chips).
or... no issue at all. Again I have to point out that this kind of data, no matter how much there is of it, is isolated, fractured data. It is a data point floating in a void, with tons of other data points floating in their own, isolated and unconnected void...
and you are trying to suck meaning out of it, to make a valid conclusion from it, and that is impossible.
Nobody is missing that fact.
Everyone who is complaining is complaining about the antenna design specifically in the iPhone 4 which causes COMPLETE termination of reception and transmission by simply putting ONE FINGER connecting the antennae.
I know "Cult of Mac" members can be impervious to logic, but you can at least accept the above point, can't you? Please, Chillin, give me some sign that you can understand what was written above.
Yet another seasoned member of the forums keeping it real. What's with these newly registered users who are bat-shit crazy? And who hate anyone pointing out anything bad about this new iPhone.
You're exaggerating, and your evidence is incidental. Most people report degraded signal, not a 'no service' condition. Mine drops 1-2 bars. It's not even annoying. Which is more likely? The folks with loss of signal strength but no interruption of service posting a video on the newsworthy 'youtube', or people with a valid complaint because it affects usage of the phone?
Just because you've found a few video's on the web doesn't mean the problem is all encompassing, nor does it mean that everyone is experiencing an issue.
I know it's hard to contain your excitement, but try hard to remember that?
You just admitted that you're not complaining about it, hence you do not fit the criteria from my post.
or... no issue at all. Again I have to point out that this kind of data, no matter how much there is of it, is isolated, fractured data. It is a data point floating in a void, with tons of other data points floating in their own, isolated and unconnected void...
and you are trying to suck meaning out of it, to make a valid conclusion from it, and that is impossible.
I have to agree. It's too soon to tell if it's hardware, software, or both. I tend to think it's a bit of both. I think the new antenna design probably exaggerates the effect, but the fact that we're seeing this same issue on earlier iPhones after the upgrade to iOS4 leads me to believe they can probably resolve it or greatly reduce it via software update.
You don't say if you are shorting Apple stock, you don't say if you own competitor's stock, you give no sense of how much "much" is. And you still refuse to divulge who you work for. This is hypocrisy indeed!
And, I also note that you still haven't denied your involvement with Glenn Beck in the murder of a girl in 1990. Very clever to use words that imply you don't know him without actually coming right out and denying your association with him.
You sir, look guiltier and guiltier by the second.
No, I'm not shorting Apple stock.
The stock I do have is in a managed portfolio, the content of which changes at the discretion of the manager. I have no idea which stocks make up the portfolio but it's based on property investments.
Much is in the mid 5 figures
I'll tell you who I work for when you tell me who you work for, as I said before. Has Daniel divulged who he works for? You know, Apple? No?
And leaving the best to last, are you going to tell me who Glenn Beck is yet, or is that some state secret?
You sir are looking loonier by the second.
Yet another seasoned member of the forums keeping it real. What's with these newly registered users who are bat-shit crazy? And who hate anyone pointing out anything bad about this new iPhone.
I apologize for my enthusiasm.
I don't hate someone for finding a problem. I hate that it's false. I hate that people are claiming things they couldn't possibly know, not the people themselves.
I believe it was Wittgenstein that said that you cannot speak about what you do not know.
Yet that is what all these reports are... people who seem to believe that they know what is happening. Yes, I don't doubt that if you touch that spot on your new iPhone, you see reception wobbles, and can get a call to drop. What I am saying is this means nothing, for one, because we don't know, and you don't know, what the tower state is. For two, I can reproduce the effect on any cell phone in existence. This is why I am adamant about all these reports with people with problems. It is nothing more than mass hysteria.
The symptoms do not indicate a problem. It is as clear as that. Maybe there is a problem, but these reports do not tell us anything about it because they are fractured, isolated, and have zero connection to any other report.
You just admitted that you're not complaining about it, hence you do not fit the criteria from my post.
You mean I'm not included in 'Everyone'? Your making generalizations. It is hardly affecting everyone, most have to use a 'death grip' to see any symptoms, and it doesn't cause a complete loss of service for most.
With a name like Chopper I'm picking you're an Aussie. Explains a lot really.
Yes I am Kiwi.
Incidentally I was wrong in that Germany was one of the countries that received the original iPhones. Of course that was 2007 and something tells me Germany isn't one to rest on old technology.
Nope. I'm a Kiwi.
Probably explains just as much though.
Don't know what the bit about Germany means - I guess I missed something in the bowels of this gigantic thread.
Spotcha round the forums.
Everyone who is complaining is complaining about the antenna design specifically in the iPhone 4 which causes COMPLETE termination of reception and transmission by simply putting ONE FINGER connecting the antennae.
And that is why yours and others diagnosis is irrational and fallacious. If it's a design flaw then it would be happening to all iPhone 4s. It's not, so it's something else.
or... no issue at all. Again I have to point out that this kind of data, no matter how much there is of it, is isolated, fractured data. It is a data point floating in a void, with tons of other data points floating in their own, isolated and unconnected void...
and you are trying to suck meaning out of it, to make a valid conclusion from it, and that is impossible.
If it was just a couple videos or reports it could be faked but there is more than enough data points to conclude there is an issue with some iPhone 4s (not all) that is above and beyond the typical attenuation caused by the human body. Placing your finger in one area of the device shouldn't drop it from 5 bars to No Service within a few seconds. This seems to be a repeatable issue with those affected and I have no reason to believe they are falsified. That is an issue!
What will unfortunately happen is the trolls that make a mountain out of a molehill will undoubtedly cause enough ruckus that will scare those with normal attenuation issues to want support this making it harder for those with legitimate issues to get a new device. Shame on all of them