I think that you are all missing an important point here - the Apple Store is licensed to do business in all 50 states of the USA. In many cases, community standards have resulted in litigation and lawsuits for companies selling into those communities. With a company the size and profile of Apple, the likelihood that some publicity seeking judge or prosecutor in some backwoods county would try to make an example of Apple and Jobs is pretty high.
I think that Apple's censoring of the Apple Store has less to do with philosophy than with the practical realities of doing business in a country that allows state (and in some cases, local) government to interfere with national businesses.
Any censorship is bad thing. It is either criminal act (e.g. child pornography) and then no censorship is needed, rather police should take care about the content provider and make sure it is shut down, or it is objectionable to some and should by at the parents discretion what to do with kids not to see it (in that case they need some guidance - rating should provide this to parents) or it is OK to see it. In all three cases no censorship is necessary. It is just relict of the past, hope this goes away.
It is a well-settled concept of American Constitutional law that the first amendment includes the right to not to speak. While there is no government action involved in this case, I think the analogy is relevant in that it is symbolic of how powerful a statement one can make merely by choosing NOT to engage in speech of a particular type.
In Apple's case, they have a deep-rooted sense of minimalism that is frequently expressed in the form of features that are LEFT OUT of their products - and this seems now to have expanded into the realm of specific genres of apps that will be omitted from the app store.
I have no qualms with revealing that I tend to agree with Justice Black's theory as to the First Amendment - and I certainly have nothing against pornography. This being said, I think that Apple has done a fantastic job of eliminating the worst aspects of the typical computing experience, and I can live with the occasional nicety that may go by the way side as a result.
After all, if it gets late and I am lonely, the MacBook still runs Flash!
Regarding selling pornography, Apple could just do what all of the other huge media companies do: set up a different company to sell porn. Who do you think sells all that porn you can buy in hotel rooms? It's likely a company like Viacom or NewsCorp or NBC under a different guise.
There are hundreds of different cell phones out there. You're free to buy any of them. Your argument is not a rational justification for forcing Apple to sell something they don't want to sell.
Not one of those cell phones will play movies, books, or apps from my phone. And I am unable to sell my movies, books, or apps because of DRM and Apple's licensing and platform specificity.
So saying "just buy a different phone" is completely disingenuous. It's simply not an option.
And even on the iPhone there is mobileSafari which uses the latest open web technologies, which Apple made using the WebKit browser they funded, all or which are well out of their control.
Does anyone here read other people's posts, or do you all just spout out repeated nonsense?
As I already said, a web app is in no way comparable to a native app. As just one example, you cannot upload photos via a web app.
Yes, it has already been announced that Flash is better for lazy developers.
I'm not interested in making life easier for lazy developers. I want quality software on my iPhone -and Flash doesn't cut it. The fact that even Adobe doesn't claim to have a working Flash for the iPhone (or any phone at all other than one or two token examples) proves that it's not ready for prime time on mobile devices - no matter how much you lazy developers wish it was.
Er... why should Adobe even try to develop Flash for iPhone when Apple said they will not allow Flash on iPhone under any circumstances..?
Just as you may consider censorship bad, I consider it a bad thing to force someone to sell something they don't want to sell.
By your logic, Walmart should have to sell Playboy - and adult toys. After all, they're legal and parents can monitor their kids all the time if they don't want the kids buying adult toys.
Apple has made a brand image decision - and they have every right to do so. If you want to see something that's not accessible on the iPhone, but you'll have to see it elsewhere.
Have you noticed that I was not talking about Apple nor iPhone, but about censorship in general ? Got your argument, but it doesn't apply there, I still think censorship is a bad thing.
Also agree that Apple made brand image decision - in my eyes their image is much worse than it was before this decision. I guess I am not alone.
Apple is seen as responsible for what is on the App Store--they are not seen as responsible for what is on the Internet. Therefore, they filter their own App Store but not the Internet.
Which is why they should rate content, not filter it.
The MPAA is not responsible for violence or sex in movies, it just rates them.
Apple, with a monopoly store for its platform (iOS) should get out of the filtering business, or open it up to other stores.
What if a theater chain only showed movies that it approved of *and* the only movies you could play on your DVD player had to be approved by them? I.e., your DVD player was locked to one movie chain. And you couldn't sell the movies you bought for that DVD player--you had to throw them away if you switched to a different movie chain. That's the situation with iPhone vs. Android because of DRM. It's too expensive to switch as you get more and more invested in iOS/iApps.
Which is why they should rate content, not filter it.
The MPAA is not responsible for violence or sex in movies, it just rates them.
Apple, with a monopoly store for its platform (iOS) should get out of the filtering business, or open it up to other stores.
What if a theater chain only showed movies that it approved of *and* the only movies you could play on your DVD player had to be approved by them? I.e., your DVD player was locked to one movie chain. And you couldn't sell the movies you bought for that DVD player--you had to throw them away if you switched to a different movie chain. That's the situation with iPhone vs. Android because of DRM. It's too expensive to switch as you get more and more invested in iOS/iApps.
There are no x-rated movie's being played at our favorite theatre. I don't see your point but I see the previous posters point (dabao2) and think he stated the argument as concisely as I have seen.
Apple is seen as responsible for what is on the App Store--they are not seen as responsible for what is on the Internet. Therefore, they filter their own App Store but not the Internet.
This is the root of it. I don't see why people don't get it.
[EDIT] I just realized I was agreeing with myself... Sorry!
Apple is seen as responsible for what is on the App Store--they are not seen as responsible for what is on the Internet. Therefore, they filter their own App Store but not the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabao2
Apple is seen as responsible for what is on the App Store--they are not seen as responsible for what is on the Internet. Therefore, they filter their own App Store but not the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub
I don't see your point but I see the previous posters point (dabao2) and think he stated the argument as concisely as I have seen.
Don't forget to read the whole thread!!
Dabao2, a quote would have been nice if you were going to cut and paste...
There are no x-rated movie's being played at our favorite theatre. I don't see your point but I see the previous posters point (dabao2) and think he stated the argument as concisely as I have seen.
Millions of people go to theaters with no x-rated films, but then buy them elsewhere and watch them on standardized devices universally compatible (DVDs).
But you can't do that on an iPhone because there is only 1 store.
Sure, you can go to the Android Marketplace, but then you have to throw away your investment in apps, movies, and books (and cannot resell them to make back your investment). And start a new 2-year phone contract in addition to finishing your existing one ($160/month, anyone?)
No one is going to do that.
So it's a monopoly in effect, if not in legal terms.
(The Apple sycophants here are as bad as the Adobe sycophants on the Adobe forums.)
Comments
I think that Apple's censoring of the Apple Store has less to do with philosophy than with the practical realities of doing business in a country that allows state (and in some cases, local) government to interfere with national businesses.
Originally Posted by Brainless
Any censorship is bad thing. It is either criminal act (e.g. child pornography) and then no censorship is needed, rather police should take care about the content provider and make sure it is shut down, or it is objectionable to some and should by at the parents discretion what to do with kids not to see it (in that case they need some guidance - rating should provide this to parents) or it is OK to see it. In all three cases no censorship is necessary. It is just relict of the past, hope this goes away.
It is a well-settled concept of American Constitutional law that the first amendment includes the right to not to speak. While there is no government action involved in this case, I think the analogy is relevant in that it is symbolic of how powerful a statement one can make merely by choosing NOT to engage in speech of a particular type.
In Apple's case, they have a deep-rooted sense of minimalism that is frequently expressed in the form of features that are LEFT OUT of their products - and this seems now to have expanded into the realm of specific genres of apps that will be omitted from the app store.
I have no qualms with revealing that I tend to agree with Justice Black's theory as to the First Amendment - and I certainly have nothing against pornography. This being said, I think that Apple has done a fantastic job of eliminating the worst aspects of the typical computing experience, and I can live with the occasional nicety that may go by the way side as a result.
After all, if it gets late and I am lonely, the MacBook still runs Flash!
Heh Heh, Hey Beavis, Heh Heh, Heh Heh
He said, "show our content"
Heh Heh, Heh Heh
There are hundreds of different cell phones out there. You're free to buy any of them. Your argument is not a rational justification for forcing Apple to sell something they don't want to sell.
Did you even read what I wrote?
Not one of those cell phones will play movies, books, or apps from my phone. And I am unable to sell my movies, books, or apps because of DRM and Apple's licensing and platform specificity.
So saying "just buy a different phone" is completely disingenuous. It's simply not an option.
And even on the iPhone there is mobileSafari which uses the latest open web technologies, which Apple made using the WebKit browser they funded, all or which are well out of their control.
Does anyone here read other people's posts, or do you all just spout out repeated nonsense?
As I already said, a web app is in no way comparable to a native app. As just one example, you cannot upload photos via a web app.
That's not a relevant answer.
They did made the VHS win over Beta back in the 80's
While this is true. Beta was used as a Pro device for many many years.
Just saying.
Yes, it has already been announced that Flash is better for lazy developers.
I'm not interested in making life easier for lazy developers. I want quality software on my iPhone -and Flash doesn't cut it. The fact that even Adobe doesn't claim to have a working Flash for the iPhone (or any phone at all other than one or two token examples) proves that it's not ready for prime time on mobile devices - no matter how much you lazy developers wish it was.
Er... why should Adobe even try to develop Flash for iPhone when Apple said they will not allow Flash on iPhone under any circumstances..?
Er... why should Adobe even try to develop Flash for iPhone when Apple said they will not allow Flash on iPhone under any circumstances..?
Steve said he asked adobe to show him a working example of flash on the iPhone that met a fee criteria. He said they have yet to show him anything.
Yes, it has already been announced that Flash is better for lazy developers.
I'm not interested in making life easier for lazy developers.
How many software products have you shipped, and how do you measure productivity among your team members?
Just as you may consider censorship bad, I consider it a bad thing to force someone to sell something they don't want to sell.
By your logic, Walmart should have to sell Playboy - and adult toys. After all, they're legal and parents can monitor their kids all the time if they don't want the kids buying adult toys.
Apple has made a brand image decision - and they have every right to do so. If you want to see something that's not accessible on the iPhone, but you'll have to see it elsewhere.
Have you noticed that I was not talking about Apple nor iPhone, but about censorship in general ? Got your argument, but it doesn't apply there, I still think censorship is a bad thing.
Also agree that Apple made brand image decision - in my eyes their image is much worse than it was before this decision. I guess I am not alone.
Apple is seen as responsible for what is on the App Store--they are not seen as responsible for what is on the Internet. Therefore, they filter their own App Store but not the Internet.
Which is why they should rate content, not filter it.
The MPAA is not responsible for violence or sex in movies, it just rates them.
Apple, with a monopoly store for its platform (iOS) should get out of the filtering business, or open it up to other stores.
What if a theater chain only showed movies that it approved of *and* the only movies you could play on your DVD player had to be approved by them? I.e., your DVD player was locked to one movie chain. And you couldn't sell the movies you bought for that DVD player--you had to throw them away if you switched to a different movie chain. That's the situation with iPhone vs. Android because of DRM. It's too expensive to switch as you get more and more invested in iOS/iApps.
Which is why they should rate content, not filter it.
The MPAA is not responsible for violence or sex in movies, it just rates them.
Apple, with a monopoly store for its platform (iOS) should get out of the filtering business, or open it up to other stores.
What if a theater chain only showed movies that it approved of *and* the only movies you could play on your DVD player had to be approved by them? I.e., your DVD player was locked to one movie chain. And you couldn't sell the movies you bought for that DVD player--you had to throw them away if you switched to a different movie chain. That's the situation with iPhone vs. Android because of DRM. It's too expensive to switch as you get more and more invested in iOS/iApps.
There are no x-rated movie's being played at our favorite theatre. I don't see your point but I see the previous posters point (dabao2) and think he stated the argument as concisely as I have seen.
Apple is seen as responsible for what is on the App Store--they are not seen as responsible for what is on the Internet. Therefore, they filter their own App Store but not the Internet.
This is the root of it. I don't see why people don't get it.
[EDIT] I just realized I was agreeing with myself... Sorry!
Apple is seen as responsible for what is on the App Store--they are not seen as responsible for what is on the Internet. Therefore, they filter their own App Store but not the Internet.
Apple is seen as responsible for what is on the App Store--they are not seen as responsible for what is on the Internet. Therefore, they filter their own App Store but not the Internet.
I don't see your point but I see the previous posters point (dabao2) and think he stated the argument as concisely as I have seen.
Don't forget to read the whole thread!!
Dabao2, a quote would have been nice if you were going to cut and paste...
Don't forget to read the whole thread!!
Dabao2, a quote would have been nice if you were going to cut and paste...
It's not like I am paying that much attention!
It's not like I am paying that much attention!
Yeah. I barely caught it myself! I was thinking, "man, this guy gets it!"
There are no x-rated movie's being played at our favorite theatre. I don't see your point but I see the previous posters point (dabao2) and think he stated the argument as concisely as I have seen.
Millions of people go to theaters with no x-rated films, but then buy them elsewhere and watch them on standardized devices universally compatible (DVDs).
But you can't do that on an iPhone because there is only 1 store.
Sure, you can go to the Android Marketplace, but then you have to throw away your investment in apps, movies, and books (and cannot resell them to make back your investment). And start a new 2-year phone contract in addition to finishing your existing one ($160/month, anyone?)
No one is going to do that.
So it's a monopoly in effect, if not in legal terms.
(The Apple sycophants here are as bad as the Adobe sycophants on the Adobe forums.)
I guess it's good to see everyone up for the change.
this should develop some stiff competition