I'm thinking it might make sense to start selling an iPad with front facing camera for those face time chats. Other than that, I'm hoping apple might begin bundling updated ipads with iLife. Need to be able to make albums in iPhoto and a version of GarageBand would be nice.
Why the iPad wasn't the first device to get iOS 4, instead of the last, is a mystery to me. Why it's going to take an additional five months to bring iOS4 to the iPad is an even greater mystery.
It's very simple really.
When Apple was getting the iPad ready, they started with iPhone OS 3.1, and made whatever changes they needed to make from that base.
Meanwhile, the iPhone 4 team starting from the same 3.1 base made other changes. The both worked with the same base but made changes in different directions for different purposes.
This approach allowed both devices to ship earlier than trying to integrate two different projects at the end of each of the respective development processes. Branching code streams is a common technique to complete projects like this.
Likely, we'll see iOS 4.1 appear for the iPad which will include the iPad code and the iOS4 code merged together. It might run on both iPhones and iPads.
That is completely bogus. There's no technical reason it can't be made available for iPad basically right away.
How do you know that? Do you think they're just delaying it for no reason? Obviously it's in Apple's best interest to get iAds on more devices and anything that enhances the iPad further will just sell more units. What possible reason other than a technical one would be delaying the release? Just doesn't make any sense. Also, last time I checked, November was a member of the fall season anyway.
I'm guessing they're pushing ahead with iOS development and basically skipping 4.0 for the iPad. What we'll see later this year will be more than what 4.0 is today. Kind of how iOS 3.2 is to 3.0. Basically a collection of incremental improvements and new OS features but nothing earth shattering from a developer standpoint. This would put Apple on track for delivering a major OS release per year and another minor OS release later in the year full of the stuff that didn't make the cut for the .0 release.
Sounds more like the date for the iAd switch to flip, and details for ad customers. If iOS 4 for iPhone is any indication of the cycle, theOS will be out before the ad service starts.
It's also very important that developers get their hands on it in beta, long before Skippy H@xz0R gets it and starts whining that his parents will only pay for Verizon.
I love the way everyone knows more about OS development than Apple.
Just what are your credentials that allow you to make such a statement when Apple says it will take until November?
Not being a sucker is my main credential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterJoe
How do you know that? Do you think they're just delaying it for no reason?
No, and that's what is irritating about about it. I'm quite sure from a marketing perspective there are possible reasons, not the least of which is that iPad 2 may be on the horizon by then and may sell more if boosted by a new OS.
Here's my issue: the features in ios 4 are pretty glaring omissions from the current ipad. Lack of multitasking for example truly emasculates the ipad, and restricts it to be more of a toy than the laptop substitute it could easily be.
So for Apple to withhold important features that would greatly improve the user experience, purely in service of a marketing strategy is frustrating.
No, and that's what is irritating about about it. I'm quite sure from a marketing perspective there are possible reasons, not the least of which is that iPad 2 may be on the horizon by then and may sell more if boosted by a new OS.
Here's my issue: the features in ios 4 are pretty glaring omissions from the current ipad. Lack of multitasking for example truly emasculates the ipad, and restricts it to be more of a toy than the laptop substitute it could easily be.
So for Apple to withhold important features that would greatly improve the user experience, purely in service of a marketing strategy is frustrating.
I can't agree with that speculation. And being a sucker has nothing to do with it.
How can you expect a new iPad in November? That's terrible timing. I could see, just barely, but I could see a slightly upgraded model with some more RAM, or some modest update. But I even find that to be unlikely.
It's much more likely that Apple has one OS team there. When they finished iOS 4 for the phone, they went back to the iPad, which already HAS some 4.0 features, as well as additional ones, and are now completing it. Then there's a slightly different version for the iPod Touch which has to be ready for the September release of the new model. We'll possibly see a 4.1 version coming out November, with extra features for the iPad as now, and updates to the iPhone version as well.
It's a lot of work.
We've all seen 10.6 delayed several months so that Apple could get the iPhone out the door last time.
Why the iPad wasn't the first device to get iOS 4, instead of the last, is a mystery to me. Why it's going to take an additional five months to bring iOS4 to the iPad is an even greater mystery.
I fully expect Apple to have an iPad revision out by then. It will be needed to really run iOS well. The new Pad will have far more memory and maybe even dual processors by then. Think about it folks Apple will rev iPad right before the Christmas shopping season.
I know I've expressed this though before and end up hearing all sorts of objections but iPhone 4 should make it clear they are targetting a larger memory foot print. They obviously could rev at any time considering that iPhone has a 512MB A4 but I think Appple has a bigger vision for iPad. That vision in part includes dual core.
I can't agree with that speculation. And being a sucker has nothing to do with it.
How can you expect a new iPad in November? That's terrible timing. I could see, just barely, but I could see a slightly upgraded model with some more RAM, or some modest update. But I even find that to be unlikely.
It is pretty simply really, the current iPad doesn't have enough free RAM to support iOS 4 well. It effectively has less RAM than the old 3GS.
So while it might work with iOS 4 it isn't going to hum along like iPhone 4 does. I know many don't want to hear this but it really is a big short coming with the iPad. Apple might even keep the old model around at a deep discount depending upon what the competition has going for Christmas.
Quote:
It's much more likely that Apple has one OS team there. When they finished iOS 4 for the phone, they went back to the iPad, which already HAS some 4.0 features, as well as additional ones, and are now completing it. Then there's a slightly different version for the iPod Touch which has to be ready for the September release of the new model. We'll possibly see a 4.1 version coming out November, with extra features for the iPad as now, and updates to the iPhone version as well.
As long as they can supply Touch with enough RAM there shouldn't be a problem. At least no more that with the old OS revisions.
As for revs to iOS 4.0 that is a given just to address the bugs.
Quote:
It's a lot of work.
We've all seen 10.6 delayed several months so that Apple could get the iPhone out the door last time.
That was generation #1. Considering the importance of the touch product line and Apples growth they are likely beefing up their development teams.
It is pretty simply really, the current iPad doesn't have enough free RAM to support iOS 4 well. It effectively has less RAM than the old 3GS.
You might remember, if you saw the threads, that I was surprised and disappointed that the iPad didn't come with 512 from the beginning, but I was shouted down from the peanut gallery here who was shouting that if Apple gave 256, then it was enough! Geez!
Quote:
So while it might work with iOS 4 it isn't going to hum along like iPhone 4 does. I know many don't want to hear this but it really is a big short coming with the iPad. Apple might even keep the old model around at a deep discount depending upon what the competition has going for Christmas.
It doesn't make sense that they would supply us with 256, and then six months later, up that to 512. The RAM was, and is cheap. I think they will wait, but if they don't, then that's about all they will do for now, as when Apple ups the specs on the Mac, but doesn't change it otherwise. Can you imagine the outcry if iPads sold in November can run programs the 8 million or so that were on sale from April couldn't? If Apple gives them video editing, and we can't use it?
Quote:
As long as they can supply Touch with enough RAM there shouldn't be a problem. At least no more that with the old OS revisions.
The Touch is different enough from the iPhone that it needs its own version.
Quote:
As for revs to iOS 4.0 that is a given just to address the bugs.
iOS 4 for the iPhone, and iOS 4 for the iPad could be different. I believe that Apple wants to converge them all as much as possible to save themselves some more work. The Touch is a subset of the iPhone, and the iPad is a superset. Just as we have 3.2 for out iPads, to add whats needed there, I think we'll get 4.1 to converge the three some more. With the high resolution of the new phone, and likely the new Touch, programs can be run without modification on the iPad. That's really good, but the iPad still has more needs than the smaller devices.
Quote:
That was generation #1. Considering the importance of the touch product line and Apples growth they are likely beefing up their development teams.
Dave
I keep calling for that, but others don't agree. And not only here. I had a good article about that, but I'm not sure where it is.
I'm a touch fan and I wonder what the next version will bring. The new screen probably. Camera(s)? Gyro? GPS? I don't suppose they'll put a sim in it with a data plan similar to the iPad? I think with the right upgrades it could be a really hot item. Not all of us have jumped on the smartphone wagon yet.
Are we supposed to be thrilled with getting ads added to the iPad? No thanks! Take your time. I don't care if I ever have them. Seriously, who would?
....
I always thought Apple was supposed to be on the side of the user. I guess that was all hype.
rms
The reason to care is that the revenue generated by the ads helps to keep the cost of the apps low for the consumer since it is a way for the developers to make $ without needing to charge $50 for an app. Just like commercial television and commercial radio - you don't pay $1000 a month for "broadcast" TV or Radio because of commercials.
iOS4 for the iPad will have some sort of a filing system.
Of course. So does iPhone OS 1, 2, and 3.
Oh, you mean a USER ACCESSIBLE file system? There's no evidence for that and it goes against the entire iOS philosophy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by manfrommars
Not being a sucker is my main credential.
Maybe not, but you sure have a vivid imagination - thinking that you know what's possible better than Apple does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by manfrommars
No, and that's what is irritating about about it. I'm quite sure from a marketing perspective there are possible reasons, not the least of which is that iPad 2 may be on the horizon by then and may sell more if boosted by a new OS.
Here's my issue: the features in ios 4 are pretty glaring omissions from the current ipad. Lack of multitasking for example truly emasculates the ipad, and restricts it to be more of a toy than the laptop substitute it could easily be.
So for Apple to withhold important features that would greatly improve the user experience, purely in service of a marketing strategy is frustrating.
There are 3 possibilities:
1. Apple is simply withholding features and iOS 4 as a whim. Obviously not likely - they want iOS 4 on the iPad ASAP for ad revenues, if for no other reason.
2. You are correct that there's no reason for the delay. That would mean that Apple is incapable of doing it because they're waiting for some super-genius like you to show them how it's done. You obviously think you know more about it than Apple. Again, not likely. Actually, not even possible.
3. Apple is working on it as fast as they can and they expect to release it after appropriate levels of QC testing this fall because that's the fastest that it can reasonably be done. Clearly, this is the most logical conclusion.
I think Apple are clearly doing more for iPad OS4 than just porting what they did on the iPhone. I expect to see widgets, wi-fi media streaming, and more advanced multi-tasking.
I'm a touch fan and I wonder what the next version will bring. The new screen probably. Camera(s)? Gyro? GPS? I don't suppose they'll put a sim in it with a data plan similar to the iPad? I think with the right upgrades it could be a really hot item. Not all of us have jumped on the smartphone wagon yet.
I keep thinking a *microphone* would be a big deal on the Touch!
There's VOIP and voice control and whatever other voice-enabled apps are out there.
And, sort of in the back of my mind, is this idea of an iPhone buddy sold by Verizon etc, which lets you make and take calls on your Touch when you have it and is a simple baby phone when you don't ( beach, pool, gym, ...).
I fully expect Apple to have an iPad revision out by then. It will be needed to really run iOS well. The new Pad will have far more memory and maybe even dual processors by then. Think about it folks Apple will rev iPad right before the Christmas shopping season.
I know I've expressed this though before and end up hearing all sorts of objections but iPhone 4 should make it clear they are targetting a larger memory foot print. They obviously could rev at any time considering that iPhone has a 512MB A4 but I think Appple has a bigger vision for iPad. That vision in part includes dual core.
Dave
Agree. A significant gap in adoption of iOS4 for iPad from iPhone/iPod could mean they are preparing it for a significant change. Providing dual core compatibility is certainly a significant change to the OS.
Why not an iOS update to take care of known bugs on the iPad like the repeated prompting for my home wifi password? Entering and re-entering a 26 character password multiple times a night has a high "piss off" factor.
I have never seen this issue on my iPad. Could it be something with your wireless router?
Comments
Why the iPad wasn't the first device to get iOS 4, instead of the last, is a mystery to me. Why it's going to take an additional five months to bring iOS4 to the iPad is an even greater mystery.
It's very simple really.
When Apple was getting the iPad ready, they started with iPhone OS 3.1, and made whatever changes they needed to make from that base.
Meanwhile, the iPhone 4 team starting from the same 3.1 base made other changes. The both worked with the same base but made changes in different directions for different purposes.
This approach allowed both devices to ship earlier than trying to integrate two different projects at the end of each of the respective development processes. Branching code streams is a common technique to complete projects like this.
Likely, we'll see iOS 4.1 appear for the iPad which will include the iPad code and the iOS4 code merged together. It might run on both iPhones and iPads.
And boy it would be great to have Garage Band on the iPad (I thought it did - bummed to find its not).
Oh well, I will get the 16gb 3G iPad (just to get a taste), and sell quickly in April, right before iPad2!
You mean to tell me that " iOS 4" is not coming til Nov., or, iAds are not coming for the iPad till Nov.?
And boy it would be great to have Garage Band on the iPad (I thought it did - bummed to find its not).
Oh well, I will get the 16gb 3G iPad (just to get a taste), and sell quickly in April, right before iPad2!
iAds require iOS 4. Based on that I'd say that iOS 4 for the ipad will be released just before, or with, iAds for the iPad in November.
That is completely bogus. There's no technical reason it can't be made available for iPad basically right away.
How do you know that? Do you think they're just delaying it for no reason? Obviously it's in Apple's best interest to get iAds on more devices and anything that enhances the iPad further will just sell more units. What possible reason other than a technical one would be delaying the release? Just doesn't make any sense. Also, last time I checked, November was a member of the fall season anyway.
I'm guessing they're pushing ahead with iOS development and basically skipping 4.0 for the iPad. What we'll see later this year will be more than what 4.0 is today. Kind of how iOS 3.2 is to 3.0. Basically a collection of incremental improvements and new OS features but nothing earth shattering from a developer standpoint. This would put Apple on track for delivering a major OS release per year and another minor OS release later in the year full of the stuff that didn't make the cut for the .0 release.
It's also very important that developers get their hands on it in beta, long before Skippy H@xz0R gets it and starts whining that his parents will only pay for Verizon.
I love the way everyone knows more about OS development than Apple.
Just what are your credentials that allow you to make such a statement when Apple says it will take until November?
Not being a sucker is my main credential.
How do you know that? Do you think they're just delaying it for no reason?
No, and that's what is irritating about about it. I'm quite sure from a marketing perspective there are possible reasons, not the least of which is that iPad 2 may be on the horizon by then and may sell more if boosted by a new OS.
Here's my issue: the features in ios 4 are pretty glaring omissions from the current ipad. Lack of multitasking for example truly emasculates the ipad, and restricts it to be more of a toy than the laptop substitute it could easily be.
So for Apple to withhold important features that would greatly improve the user experience, purely in service of a marketing strategy is frustrating.
Not being a sucker is my main credential.
No, and that's what is irritating about about it. I'm quite sure from a marketing perspective there are possible reasons, not the least of which is that iPad 2 may be on the horizon by then and may sell more if boosted by a new OS.
Here's my issue: the features in ios 4 are pretty glaring omissions from the current ipad. Lack of multitasking for example truly emasculates the ipad, and restricts it to be more of a toy than the laptop substitute it could easily be.
So for Apple to withhold important features that would greatly improve the user experience, purely in service of a marketing strategy is frustrating.
I can't agree with that speculation. And being a sucker has nothing to do with it.
How can you expect a new iPad in November? That's terrible timing. I could see, just barely, but I could see a slightly upgraded model with some more RAM, or some modest update. But I even find that to be unlikely.
It's much more likely that Apple has one OS team there. When they finished iOS 4 for the phone, they went back to the iPad, which already HAS some 4.0 features, as well as additional ones, and are now completing it. Then there's a slightly different version for the iPod Touch which has to be ready for the September release of the new model. We'll possibly see a 4.1 version coming out November, with extra features for the iPad as now, and updates to the iPhone version as well.
It's a lot of work.
We've all seen 10.6 delayed several months so that Apple could get the iPhone out the door last time.
Why the iPad wasn't the first device to get iOS 4, instead of the last, is a mystery to me. Why it's going to take an additional five months to bring iOS4 to the iPad is an even greater mystery.
I fully expect Apple to have an iPad revision out by then. It will be needed to really run iOS well. The new Pad will have far more memory and maybe even dual processors by then. Think about it folks Apple will rev iPad right before the Christmas shopping season.
I know I've expressed this though before and end up hearing all sorts of objections but iPhone 4 should make it clear they are targetting a larger memory foot print. They obviously could rev at any time considering that iPhone has a 512MB A4 but I think Appple has a bigger vision for iPad. That vision in part includes dual core.
Dave
I can't agree with that speculation. And being a sucker has nothing to do with it.
How can you expect a new iPad in November? That's terrible timing. I could see, just barely, but I could see a slightly upgraded model with some more RAM, or some modest update. But I even find that to be unlikely.
It is pretty simply really, the current iPad doesn't have enough free RAM to support iOS 4 well. It effectively has less RAM than the old 3GS.
So while it might work with iOS 4 it isn't going to hum along like iPhone 4 does. I know many don't want to hear this but it really is a big short coming with the iPad. Apple might even keep the old model around at a deep discount depending upon what the competition has going for Christmas.
It's much more likely that Apple has one OS team there. When they finished iOS 4 for the phone, they went back to the iPad, which already HAS some 4.0 features, as well as additional ones, and are now completing it. Then there's a slightly different version for the iPod Touch which has to be ready for the September release of the new model. We'll possibly see a 4.1 version coming out November, with extra features for the iPad as now, and updates to the iPhone version as well.
As long as they can supply Touch with enough RAM there shouldn't be a problem. At least no more that with the old OS revisions.
As for revs to iOS 4.0 that is a given just to address the bugs.
It's a lot of work.
We've all seen 10.6 delayed several months so that Apple could get the iPhone out the door last time.
That was generation #1. Considering the importance of the touch product line and Apples growth they are likely beefing up their development teams.
Dave
It is pretty simply really, the current iPad doesn't have enough free RAM to support iOS 4 well. It effectively has less RAM than the old 3GS.
You might remember, if you saw the threads, that I was surprised and disappointed that the iPad didn't come with 512 from the beginning, but I was shouted down from the peanut gallery here who was shouting that if Apple gave 256, then it was enough! Geez!
So while it might work with iOS 4 it isn't going to hum along like iPhone 4 does. I know many don't want to hear this but it really is a big short coming with the iPad. Apple might even keep the old model around at a deep discount depending upon what the competition has going for Christmas.
It doesn't make sense that they would supply us with 256, and then six months later, up that to 512. The RAM was, and is cheap. I think they will wait, but if they don't, then that's about all they will do for now, as when Apple ups the specs on the Mac, but doesn't change it otherwise. Can you imagine the outcry if iPads sold in November can run programs the 8 million or so that were on sale from April couldn't? If Apple gives them video editing, and we can't use it?
As long as they can supply Touch with enough RAM there shouldn't be a problem. At least no more that with the old OS revisions.
The Touch is different enough from the iPhone that it needs its own version.
As for revs to iOS 4.0 that is a given just to address the bugs.
iOS 4 for the iPhone, and iOS 4 for the iPad could be different. I believe that Apple wants to converge them all as much as possible to save themselves some more work. The Touch is a subset of the iPhone, and the iPad is a superset. Just as we have 3.2 for out iPads, to add whats needed there, I think we'll get 4.1 to converge the three some more. With the high resolution of the new phone, and likely the new Touch, programs can be run without modification on the iPad. That's really good, but the iPad still has more needs than the smaller devices.
That was generation #1. Considering the importance of the touch product line and Apples growth they are likely beefing up their development teams.
Dave
I keep calling for that, but others don't agree. And not only here. I had a good article about that, but I'm not sure where it is.
Are we supposed to be thrilled with getting ads added to the iPad? No thanks! Take your time. I don't care if I ever have them. Seriously, who would?
....
I always thought Apple was supposed to be on the side of the user. I guess that was all hype.
rms
The reason to care is that the revenue generated by the ads helps to keep the cost of the apps low for the consumer since it is a way for the developers to make $ without needing to charge $50 for an app. Just like commercial television and commercial radio - you don't pay $1000 a month for "broadcast" TV or Radio because of commercials.
iOS4 for the iPad will have some sort of a filing system.
Of course. So does iPhone OS 1, 2, and 3.
Oh, you mean a USER ACCESSIBLE file system? There's no evidence for that and it goes against the entire iOS philosophy.
Not being a sucker is my main credential.
Maybe not, but you sure have a vivid imagination - thinking that you know what's possible better than Apple does.
No, and that's what is irritating about about it. I'm quite sure from a marketing perspective there are possible reasons, not the least of which is that iPad 2 may be on the horizon by then and may sell more if boosted by a new OS.
Here's my issue: the features in ios 4 are pretty glaring omissions from the current ipad. Lack of multitasking for example truly emasculates the ipad, and restricts it to be more of a toy than the laptop substitute it could easily be.
So for Apple to withhold important features that would greatly improve the user experience, purely in service of a marketing strategy is frustrating.
There are 3 possibilities:
1. Apple is simply withholding features and iOS 4 as a whim. Obviously not likely - they want iOS 4 on the iPad ASAP for ad revenues, if for no other reason.
2. You are correct that there's no reason for the delay. That would mean that Apple is incapable of doing it because they're waiting for some super-genius like you to show them how it's done. You obviously think you know more about it than Apple. Again, not likely. Actually, not even possible.
3. Apple is working on it as fast as they can and they expect to release it after appropriate levels of QC testing this fall because that's the fastest that it can reasonably be done. Clearly, this is the most logical conclusion.
Sheesh.
I'm a touch fan and I wonder what the next version will bring. The new screen probably. Camera(s)? Gyro? GPS? I don't suppose they'll put a sim in it with a data plan similar to the iPad? I think with the right upgrades it could be a really hot item. Not all of us have jumped on the smartphone wagon yet.
I keep thinking a *microphone* would be a big deal on the Touch!
There's VOIP and voice control and whatever other voice-enabled apps are out there.
And, sort of in the back of my mind, is this idea of an iPhone buddy sold by Verizon etc, which lets you make and take calls on your Touch when you have it and is a simple baby phone when you don't ( beach, pool, gym, ...).
I fully expect Apple to have an iPad revision out by then. It will be needed to really run iOS well. The new Pad will have far more memory and maybe even dual processors by then. Think about it folks Apple will rev iPad right before the Christmas shopping season.
I know I've expressed this though before and end up hearing all sorts of objections but iPhone 4 should make it clear they are targetting a larger memory foot print. They obviously could rev at any time considering that iPhone has a 512MB A4 but I think Appple has a bigger vision for iPad. That vision in part includes dual core.
Dave
Agree. A significant gap in adoption of iOS4 for iPad from iPhone/iPod could mean they are preparing it for a significant change. Providing dual core compatibility is certainly a significant change to the OS.
Why not an iOS update to take care of known bugs on the iPad like the repeated prompting for my home wifi password? Entering and re-entering a 26 character password multiple times a night has a high "piss off" factor.
I have never seen this issue on my iPad. Could it be something with your wireless router?