Apple almost never responds unless they have a fix ready.
Yeah, I know, but I'm still on the bubble as to whether I'll keep my iPhone 4 or not. I'm hoping we'll know something definitive from them before my return period is over.
Finally, something approaching scientific testing is bringing some light to this issue, and not just smoke.
I always hate it when people who are wrong fail to admit it. Let me be the first to say that any posts I have made on the several threads devoted to this subject in which I have characterized dissenting posts as "hysteria" I repudiate.
This does not mean that I accept these two tests as definitive. But it does mean that they have cast real doubt on my position, to the point where I cannot continue to assert it.
The next step is to see that these tests are reproducible. Further, I still don't know what the motivations of the testers are, whether they are affiliated with or fans of competing products. Whether others were involved in checking their work or if they worked alone. And I am troubled by the fact that Mr. Gaywood made a post here, the tone of which was something other than what I would expect of a serious researcher--a little starstruck and defensive it seemed to me.
So, until further studies confirm these preliminary ones, count me as neutral on the subject.
I did not miss anything in your post. It has been already explained thousand times, that in zones of 5 bars reception the loss of connectivity, which you can only achieve by loading the UMTS antenna with either GPS/Bluetooth input circuits or your own body can not influence the integrity of received data.
Care to read more about discussed issues before you post.
Yep, like thousand posts where the bars were dropped like a stone from 5 to nothing just by merely touching the gap with a finger
"One very big difference is that Toyota took a very long time to address their issue (years?). Apple is being pilloried because it hasn't solved the problem in a week.
Defining the words you use, assuming other readers of this forum are not as literate as you, is presumptuous and demeaning. Use the best word, as you did, and let others decide whether to look it up if they need to.
Otherwise, I agree with your sentiments. "
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
The difference, I think, isn't that Apple hasn't solved it. They are being pilloried because they won't even acknowledge it. Maybe Dick and Anand are wrong and Jobs is right and there is no problem. If, however, there is a problem unique to the design of the iPhone 4, then they deserve to be called on it, if they choose instead to simply deny the problem.
Let's also not forget that a car is a potentially deadly device. A car that accelerates when you don't want it to gets people killed. Not exactly on the same level with a minor inconvenience.
One guy on Engadget commented that out of all the phones between him and co-workers, the iPhone 4 was the only one that could make a call 20ft underground.
Let's also not forget that a car is a potentially deadly device. A car that accelerates when you don't want it to gets people killed. Not exactly on the same level with a minor inconvenience.
Obviously, and the intent wasn't to equate the seriousness of the issues themselves. The response was simply to the post that compared the timing of the companies responses and the consumer reactions that followed.
I don't think people are reading the Anand article closely enough. Basically he is saying the antennae "issue" that people are making such a big deal about is at worst only a loss of 24db compared to the Nexus phone at a max loss of 17db. And on the good end the iPhone is actually better than the Nexus with a lower loss than the Nexus.
This is a very minor issue that will only have ANY impact if you are not in an area with decent 3G coverage to start with, and the Nexus wouldn't be much better off either.
All in all it's very very minor and if it was an issue for some people they can get the Apple bumpers and then they will end up with even better reception than the competing smartphones.
For what it's worth, I pre-ordered on the 1st day and my iPhone 4 shipped on the 24th from China. It arrived yesterday morning (the 29th). Primary location is northern NJ. The overall signal strength where I live and work is good to excellent. I typically hold the phone in my right hand and currently don't have a case or bumper for my phone. I'm currently experiencing minimal or no noticeable attenuation based on the phone's signal strength display. As a result, I haven't felt the need to contact Apple to report a problem. However, it's only been 1 day and I'll see what happens over the coming week(s).
Considering I live in the Tri-State area I am well aware of the fact that NJ has always had great AT&T reception. If you had another iPhone previously you know that to already be the case.
Three Apple job postings for iPhone / iPad antenna engineers to "Define and implement antenna system architecture to optimize the radiation performance for wireless portable devices." All three were posted on June 23rd, the same day that we started seeing widespread reporting of the left-handed reception issues. Coincidence?
How do you know there's no response? Are you managing Apple's R&D labs? Based on history, they're not going to say much until they have a fix.
Easy there, no reason to attack. First, I qualified my statement with a "so far". 2nd, your last sentence answers your 1st question. So, using your own words, since "they haven't said much", I can only assume there isn't a fix (yet). Believe me, I love my iPhone 4 so far and some kind of a fix would put my mind at ease.
Please, if you don't have Anandtech's permission (which, admittedly, you might), this is nothing but plagiarism. The amount of reused text and images goes well beyond Fair Use.
It's an excellent article. AppleInsiders who want to should go read it, not see it regurgitated here.
For what it's worth, I pre-ordered on the 1st day and my iPhone 4 shipped on the 24th from China. It arrived yesterday morning (the 29th). Primary location is northern NJ. The overall signal strength where I live and work is good to excellent. I typically hold the phone in my right hand and currently don't have a case or bumper for my phone. I'm currently experiencing minimal or no noticeable attenuation based on the phone's signal strength display. As a result, I haven't felt the need to contact Apple to report a problem. However, it's only been 1 day and I'll see what happens over the coming week(s).
Thank you Rob.
For what it is worth, you are the first person here to identify themselves as actually having an iPhone 4. Which is already telling.
I don't think people are reading the Anand article closely enough. Basically he is saying the antennae "issue" that people are making such a big deal about is at worst only a loss of 24db compared to the Nexus phone at a max loss of 17db. And on the good end the iPhone is actually better than the Nexus with a lower loss than the Nexus.
This is a very minor issue that will only have ANY impact if you are not in an area with decent 3G coverage to start with, and the Nexus wouldn't be much better off either.
All in all it's very very minor and if it was an issue for some people they can get the Apple bumpers and then they will end up with even better reception than the competing smartphones.
there's not note of how long they held the phone in the palm of their left hand. i can stand five feet from my microcell and if i hold the phone in my left palm the signal SLOWLY drops to NO SERVICE in about two minutes.
Apple needs to give bumpers to iPhone 4 buyers, because this problem was entirely foreseeable. It's an obvious problem to anyone with an ounce of electrical engineering knowledge. As Gaywood noted, "other modern cell phones don't have electrically active components in contact with their bare skin" -- for good reason.
I'd also suggest Apple knows something about iPhone 4 crash resistance (or lack thereof). When weighed with the antenna issue, for the very first time Apple was compelled to produce a protective "case" for any iPhone/iPod.
The iPhone 4 weight and dimensions should include the bumper.
These problems are so obvious, Apple surely had a contingency plan.
Yesterday I'm called out by name on Daring Fireball, today I'm being discussed on AppleInsider alongsite Anand Lai Shimpi! I'm really rubbing shoulders with my blogging heros...
Hello Mr. Gaywood,
thanks for sharing your information. Also thanks to Anand, Gruber and AI.
These articles helped to understand some observations.
The only point I tend to disagree is that some effects can't be addressed by a software update, which doesn't mean that they will magically go away but the negative impact might be reduced significantly.
My confidence is based on progress in control engineering solving problems that were considered impossible to fix when I was at university.
BTW: I can confirm the grip-problem but have better reception on Wifi, GPS and when I hold the phone as recommended (which isn't my natural way in some cases) compared to my 3G.
Well, it looks like this is a hardware problem that won't be fixed with a software update. I don't think this will end well for Apple considering they plan to ignore the problem completely.
Actually not. If you read closely, a large part of what the first expert said (and no offence to Richard Gaywood but he says in his own blog that he is actually *not* an antenna expert so the first expert is the one to really listen to), is that a big part of the problem is the way in which the bars are displayed. In many cases, there is a dramatic dropping of bars but only in marginal signal areas does it actually mean the call might be dropped.
So while the ultimate fix might be in the manufacturing, there is a fix for the firmware or software that might alleviate the problem a great deal. By changing the algorithm that determines the bars, they can hopefully fine tune it so that a large part of the problem goes away.
Comments
Apple almost never responds unless they have a fix ready.
Yeah, I know, but I'm still on the bubble as to whether I'll keep my iPhone 4 or not. I'm hoping we'll know something definitive from them before my return period is over.
I always hate it when people who are wrong fail to admit it. Let me be the first to say that any posts I have made on the several threads devoted to this subject in which I have characterized dissenting posts as "hysteria" I repudiate.
This does not mean that I accept these two tests as definitive. But it does mean that they have cast real doubt on my position, to the point where I cannot continue to assert it.
The next step is to see that these tests are reproducible. Further, I still don't know what the motivations of the testers are, whether they are affiliated with or fans of competing products. Whether others were involved in checking their work or if they worked alone. And I am troubled by the fact that Mr. Gaywood made a post here, the tone of which was something other than what I would expect of a serious researcher--a little starstruck and defensive it seemed to me.
So, until further studies confirm these preliminary ones, count me as neutral on the subject.
I did not miss anything in your post. It has been already explained thousand times, that in zones of 5 bars reception the loss of connectivity, which you can only achieve by loading the UMTS antenna with either GPS/Bluetooth input circuits or your own body can not influence the integrity of received data.
Care to read more about discussed issues before you post.
Yep, like thousand posts where the bars were dropped like a stone from 5 to nothing just by merely touching the gap with a finger
"One very big difference is that Toyota took a very long time to address their issue (years?). Apple is being pilloried because it hasn't solved the problem in a week.
Defining the words you use, assuming other readers of this forum are not as literate as you, is presumptuous and demeaning. Use the best word, as you did, and let others decide whether to look it up if they need to.
Otherwise, I agree with your sentiments. "
The difference, I think, isn't that Apple hasn't solved it. They are being pilloried because they won't even acknowledge it. Maybe Dick and Anand are wrong and Jobs is right and there is no problem. If, however, there is a problem unique to the design of the iPhone 4, then they deserve to be called on it, if they choose instead to simply deny the problem.
Let's also not forget that a car is a potentially deadly device. A car that accelerates when you don't want it to gets people killed. Not exactly on the same level with a minor inconvenience.
One guy on Engadget commented that out of all the phones between him and co-workers, the iPhone 4 was the only one that could make a call 20ft underground.
Look at 4's UMTS antenna length.
$2 for a case, $3.50 for a case and screen protector.
if Apple thinks i'm spending 29 bucks on an 18-cent piece of silicone they're out of their minds.
[no i don't work for this company, it's just very cheap and the same design as every other iP4 case]
Let's also not forget that a car is a potentially deadly device. A car that accelerates when you don't want it to gets people killed. Not exactly on the same level with a minor inconvenience.
Obviously, and the intent wasn't to equate the seriousness of the issues themselves. The response was simply to the post that compared the timing of the companies responses and the consumer reactions that followed.
This is a very minor issue that will only have ANY impact if you are not in an area with decent 3G coverage to start with, and the Nexus wouldn't be much better off either.
All in all it's very very minor and if it was an issue for some people they can get the Apple bumpers and then they will end up with even better reception than the competing smartphones.
For what it's worth, I pre-ordered on the 1st day and my iPhone 4 shipped on the 24th from China. It arrived yesterday morning (the 29th). Primary location is northern NJ. The overall signal strength where I live and work is good to excellent. I typically hold the phone in my right hand and currently don't have a case or bumper for my phone. I'm currently experiencing minimal or no noticeable attenuation based on the phone's signal strength display. As a result, I haven't felt the need to contact Apple to report a problem. However, it's only been 1 day and I'll see what happens over the coming week(s).
Considering I live in the Tri-State area I am well aware of the fact that NJ has always had great AT&T reception. If you had another iPhone previously you know that to already be the case.
Dick Gaywood?
You beat me to it..
squirt squirt
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/30/a...r-some-reason/
Three Apple job postings for iPhone / iPad antenna engineers to "Define and implement antenna system architecture to optimize the radiation performance for wireless portable devices." All three were posted on June 23rd, the same day that we started seeing widespread reporting of the left-handed reception issues. Coincidence?
How do you know there's no response? Are you managing Apple's R&D labs? Based on history, they're not going to say much until they have a fix.
Easy there, no reason to attack. First, I qualified my statement with a "so far". 2nd, your last sentence answers your 1st question. So, using your own words, since "they haven't said much", I can only assume there isn't a fix (yet). Believe me, I love my iPhone 4 so far and some kind of a fix would put my mind at ease.
Perhaps you are correct and I should have not posted the definition. I meant no offense.
I post under the assumption that the majority of people on here are smarter and better informed then I.
Perhaps my own characterization of your intentions was presumptuous. Your not rising to the bait was gentlemanly. Sorry for my own immoderation.
It's an excellent article. AppleInsiders who want to should go read it, not see it regurgitated here.
For what it's worth, I pre-ordered on the 1st day and my iPhone 4 shipped on the 24th from China. It arrived yesterday morning (the 29th). Primary location is northern NJ. The overall signal strength where I live and work is good to excellent. I typically hold the phone in my right hand and currently don't have a case or bumper for my phone. I'm currently experiencing minimal or no noticeable attenuation based on the phone's signal strength display. As a result, I haven't felt the need to contact Apple to report a problem. However, it's only been 1 day and I'll see what happens over the coming week(s).
Thank you Rob.
For what it is worth, you are the first person here to identify themselves as actually having an iPhone 4. Which is already telling.
I don't think people are reading the Anand article closely enough. Basically he is saying the antennae "issue" that people are making such a big deal about is at worst only a loss of 24db compared to the Nexus phone at a max loss of 17db. And on the good end the iPhone is actually better than the Nexus with a lower loss than the Nexus.
This is a very minor issue that will only have ANY impact if you are not in an area with decent 3G coverage to start with, and the Nexus wouldn't be much better off either.
All in all it's very very minor and if it was an issue for some people they can get the Apple bumpers and then they will end up with even better reception than the competing smartphones.
there's not note of how long they held the phone in the palm of their left hand. i can stand five feet from my microcell and if i hold the phone in my left palm the signal SLOWLY drops to NO SERVICE in about two minutes.
I'd also suggest Apple knows something about iPhone 4 crash resistance (or lack thereof). When weighed with the antenna issue, for the very first time Apple was compelled to produce a protective "case" for any iPhone/iPod.
The iPhone 4 weight and dimensions should include the bumper.
These problems are so obvious, Apple surely had a contingency plan.
Yesterday I'm called out by name on Daring Fireball, today I'm being discussed on AppleInsider alongsite Anand Lai Shimpi! I'm really rubbing shoulders with my blogging heros...
Hello Mr. Gaywood,
thanks for sharing your information. Also thanks to Anand, Gruber and AI.
These articles helped to understand some observations.
The only point I tend to disagree is that some effects can't be addressed by a software update, which doesn't mean that they will magically go away but the negative impact might be reduced significantly.
My confidence is based on progress in control engineering solving problems that were considered impossible to fix when I was at university.
BTW: I can confirm the grip-problem but have better reception on Wifi, GPS and when I hold the phone as recommended (which isn't my natural way in some cases) compared to my 3G.
if Apple thinks i'm spending 29 bucks on an 18-cent piece of silicone they're out of their minds.
Well, technically, it's plastic and silicone (or rubber) and 3 metal buttons.
Well, it looks like this is a hardware problem that won't be fixed with a software update. I don't think this will end well for Apple considering they plan to ignore the problem completely.
Actually not. If you read closely, a large part of what the first expert said (and no offence to Richard Gaywood but he says in his own blog that he is actually *not* an antenna expert so the first expert is the one to really listen to), is that a big part of the problem is the way in which the bars are displayed. In many cases, there is a dramatic dropping of bars but only in marginal signal areas does it actually mean the call might be dropped.
So while the ultimate fix might be in the manufacturing, there is a fix for the firmware or software that might alleviate the problem a great deal. By changing the algorithm that determines the bars, they can hopefully fine tune it so that a large part of the problem goes away.