Consumer Reports changes stance, cannot recommend Apple's iPhone 4

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  • Reply 261 of 406
    gijoeinlagijoeinla Posts: 213member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Me too. In a few weeks, we will be able to buy unlocked iPhone 4's from Apple in Canada. If that fantasy buyer paid $800 for a locked phone, imagine how much more they'd pay for an Apple unlocked phone. Hell, even if they only pay me $800 US, I imagine I will still be turning a nice profit.



    I think I will go in an buy a dozen. When my wife asks, I will explain that there are are people in the US willing to pay hundreds of dollars over ticket price. It's true. I read it in the internet,



    The funny thing is.. That clearly there is a HIGH RESALE INTERNATIONAL MARKET for these phones, new and old. On top of being able to return them if you just bought them, clearly like in my case, I upgraded my 3GS to i4 at no cost to me at all, especially since my 3GS sold on ebay for $340 two days ago.



    It's reasoning like this that more is being made about "the phone failure fears" that really exists. In other words, what's the REAL problem?



    Right now nobody's loosing ANYTHING and many are wasting valuable "life time" trying with all their might to bring this company down with exaggerations.
  • Reply 262 of 406
    hands sandonhands sandon Posts: 5,270member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post


    That's the first I've heard of that happening and, at least from my perspective, it's indirect, but I'll keep an extra eye out for the direct reports.



    I suspect it's (annoyingmouse) referring to solipsism who tested someone else's 4 next to his. I also suspect that solipsism deliberately neglected to tell us that one of the 4's had a case on and one didn't.



    I've now had a replacement and it has dropped signal just like the old one did and just as severely.
  • Reply 263 of 406
    nceencee Posts: 836member
    I think it was very nice of Apple to make a Lemon! Now the others can catch up a bit, before Apple fixes the problem, and leaves them all in the dust ? if we are lucky.



    Apples NEEDS to fix this before it bites them in the arss - real hard.



    Without fixing it ASAP, how will they expect folks to jump at whatever they announce (new iPad and such), without waiting to see what bugs it WILL have.



    Time to pony up to the bar, and take this on the chin.



    Skip
  • Reply 264 of 406
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post


    I guess this proves there are enough idiots out there to keep eBay in business. Why would anyone but an idiot spend $800 when they can get one for $200.



    Really? Where can I buy a new iPhone for $200?



    Oh, you mean $200 plus $70 per month for 2 years. That's quite a different thing. I guess you can also buy a new Lexus for $2,000 - since that's the downpayment they used in their ads.
  • Reply 265 of 406
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,748member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gijoeinla View Post


    The funny thing is.. That clearly there is a HIGH RESALE INTERNATIONAL MARKET for these phones, new and old. On top of being able to return them if you just bought them, clearly like in my case, I upgraded my 3GS to i4 at no cost to me at all, especially since my 3GS sold on ebay for $340 two days ago.



    It's reasoning like this that more is being made about "the phone failure fears" that really exists. In other words, what's the REAL problem?



    Right now nobody's loosing ANYTHING and many are wasting valuable "life time" trying with all their might to bring this company down with exaggerations.



    Wow, paranoid much? No one is trying "to bring this company down with exaggeration". I get it, you are a new Apple fan and very enthusiastic. That is great. But, ignoring real problems is just stupid. There is a problem with the iPhone 4. Apple should admit and address this. On a different level, there is a problem with the decision making, somewhere at Apple, that first allowed the phone to ship with this defect and now to refuse to acknowledge the issue.



    Does this make them a failure as a company? No. They are obviously a wild success and deservedly so. Does that mean they are perfect? No. Does it mean that anyone that is affected by the problem or is concerned about it (especially those that are not yet able to buy it) should assume there is no problem? No, again that would be stupid.



    You are new to the boards. Welcome. People discuss the good and the bad about Apple here. If you don't like that, perhaps you ought to stop 'wasting valuable "life time"' screaming at anyone that has a different take on the matter than you and just move on.
  • Reply 266 of 406
    macologistmacologist Posts: 264member
    CR Report: http://bit.ly/auU0c6



    Quote:

    "When your finger or hand touches a spot on the phone's lower left side?an easy thing, especially for lefties?the signal can significantly degrade enough to cause you to lose your connection altogether if you're in an area with a weak signal. Due to this problem, we can't recommend the iPhone 4."



    "Lefties?" CR is guilty of either omission or worse! I am a Righty, but I hold my phones with Left Hand, so that I can use my Right Hand to Operate the phone! My guess is that the same works in reverse: Lefties hold the phone with Right Hand, and Operate it with Left Hand... So, if Consumers Report is to be taken verbatim, like Gospel, such SLOPPY wording is INEXCUSABLE, FUD designed to attract attention, clicks, eyeballs, ratings, to CR instead of the "Truth" that they supposedly Report!





    Quote:

    " We reached this conclusion after testing all three of our iPhone 4s (purchased at three separate retailers in the New York area) in the controlled environment of CU's radio frequency (RF) isolation chamber. In this room, which is impervious to outside radio signals, our test engineers connected the phones to our base-station emulator, a device that simulates carrier cell towers (see video: IPhone 4 Design Defect Confirmed). We also tested several other AT&T phones the same way, including the iPhone 3G S and the Palm Pre. None of those phones had the signal-loss problems of the iPhone 4"



    The presumption they offer is that their "emulator, a device that simulates carrier cell" is a Word of God?! Has anyone ever challenged that device? How credible is that? That alone raises the Q for me! And just because other devices worked OK with it doesn't make that device a Word of God!





    Quote:

    "We did, however, find an affordable solution for suffering iPhone 4 users: Cover the antenna gap with a piece of duct tape or another thick, non-conductive material. It may not be pretty, but it works. We also expect that using a case would remedy the problem. We'll test a few cases this week and report back."



    1. Why didn't CR use that "Word of God!" "emulator - simulator" during their 1st Report to give us One Definitive Answer?



    2. Why is CR coming out with this 2nd Report BEFORE they test it with Cases? - "We'll test a few cases this week and report back."



    It looks like CR just wanted to exploit this FUD to inject themselves into The News, cause anything iPhone Related is Big News! They are doing it in 3 Steps, perhaps deliberately, in order to Stay In The News, to get Attention! CR is fighting for their survival like all Print Media! CR itself should be put under Microscope! This is simply Sloppy, Questionable Reporting by a Desperate Publication!!!



    As to Apple -- there could be several explanations there, and I will wait till their next official statement! Of course Apple is under the biggest Microscope, cause they are the biggest threat to some of their Competitors, who are too busy looking for low blows, while imitating Apple (BackBerry OS6 teaser was introduced today)!



    Maybe Apple's Thinking was:



    We'll max it out while reducing the size of the iPhone4, putting the antenn on the edge to get the best reception, cause most everyone will use some kind of a case! We might as well offer them something close to the Naked Look - Apple's Bumper! Hey, that's an additional sale... Also, a lot of people use Hands-Free and or BlueTooth! Thus, it's part of iPhone 4 Design!



    Most people have voted with their $$$, and Apple can't make iPhone 4 fast enough to meet the demand! A small minority of users have noticed that aspect of the design and are now obsessed with it, to the point that they don't talk about the improvements in iPhone 4, but keep beating this Dead Horse!!!



    Apple has EASILY called that Minority Report's bluff by offering a Complete 100% Refund! No need to sue for that which is already available!



    Let's see what Apple's next move is.... During the Earnings Call they'll be asked about this, and it would be interesting to see if it's 1-5% of buyers who have returned their iPhone 4. Also, I'd like to compare that percentage to all other phones, or at least Smart Phones!!! If it's close, or lower, that would diminish this hysteria by a few!



    Apple Insider, like all media, needs eyeballs and clicks! So, I can't expect them not to jump on this story! But again:



    The Real Story is how many users are NOT RETURNING their iPhone 4, and the demand for it!!!
  • Reply 267 of 406
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,748member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Really? Where can I buy a new iPhone for $200?



    Oh, you mean $200 plus $70 per month for 2 years. That's quite a different thing.



    Of course, the only difference between the $200 phone and the $800 phone, at least in the US, is that the $200 owner is contractually bound for 2 years, while the $800 is not. Assuming the $800 owner didn't buy it as an $800 paperweight, he is going to be paying the same rates for as long as he wants to use it....but he can stop paying and keep it as a very expensive iPod with a contract.
  • Reply 268 of 406
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,612member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Scafe2 View Post


    I'm afraid you are wrong,

    My wife has the 16GB iPhone 4 and I have the 32GB iPhone 4, and we both have the problem,..

    the signal bars are up and down like a yoyo, 3G speeds also vary,.. we both now have cases on the phones and still the signal dances up and down,.. and you say there is not a problem,..

    Our previous 3GS models did not have these issues period,..



    I think its time for everyone to get real!!

    wake up and smell the coffee,...



    I'm smelling the coffee just fine. I love my iPhone4. I too can get the bars to dance up and down here in San Francisco.



    Has it caused a loss of reception? No.

    Has it caused any dropped calls? No.

    Has it caused a drop in 3G data? No.



    What has the antenna design caused?

    It caused a huge improvement (for me) in call quality.

    3G performance is a huge improvement over my previous iPhone.

    It even allowed me to place a phone call 40' underground in a concrete parking structure where no other cell phone I ever had has ever been able to work. It even said "No Service" when I received the phone call. That was a shocker.



    I'm sure complaints are plenty and justified. However I also believe that the majority of users have no problems with it. There is something else going on. I for one will patiently wait and see what Apple comes up with. Until then, I will continue to happily use my iPhone4. It's the best-performing phone I've had yet.
  • Reply 269 of 406
    bartbuzzbartbuzz Posts: 131member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Really? Where can I buy a new iPhone for $200?



    Oh, you mean $200 plus $70 per month for 2 years. That's quite a different thing. I guess you can also buy a new Lexus for $2,000 - since that's the downpayment they used in their ads.



    Why do you buy an iPhone without a contract? I take it people are getting around the requirement by cheating? Or is it different outside the US?



    Obviously, I don't have an iPhone yet. I'm one of those Verizon holdouts.



    Oh yeah...your Lexus comment was a bit snotty. But then I wasn't too nice to those eBay patrons. So maybe I deserved your ridicule.
  • Reply 270 of 406
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macologist View Post


    The Real Story is how many users are NOT RETURNING their iPhone 4, and the demand for it!!!



    I think a lot of ip4 buyers fall into the following categories:
    • People who don't keep up with news of all things apple and don't know this is happening (but may be experiencing the issue.)

    • People who know about the issue and are holding out for Apple to fix it.

    • People who know about the issue, but have accepted the fault as a quirk of the phone and since the offline functions are so nice, they put up with it.

    • And finally, people who are in complete denial and will defend Apple through this no matter what.

    The last item is what gets me. Does everyone know it's ok to be mad at Apple about this?
  • Reply 271 of 406
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,748member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post


    Why do you buy an iPhone without a contract? I take it people are getting around the requirement by cheating? Or is it different outside the US?



    In Canada, and elsewhere, the iPhone 4 is/will be available directly from Apple without a contract. The major benefit, is that they will be factory unlocked. We have 5 carriers that support the iPhone here, so the first benefit is that we can then choose any carrier we want (that allowed 'third party' devices on their network) and so pick and choose amongst plans and add-ons. Additionally, we can bring it to any compatible carrier internationally and, assuming the support the iPhone 4 microsim, buy a card and plan and use it freely. The third benefit is being able to sell it to Americans that want to use TMobile.



    Really, I don't see any reason someone would buy an AT&T iPhone without a contract. Contracts are shit, but since you have to pay AT&T to use your iPhone, what practical difference does it really make (other than being able to walk away at any time, I guess).
  • Reply 272 of 406
    modul8trmodul8tr Posts: 10member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post


    An RF engineer interviewed by Leo LaPorte and referenced on latest MacBreak weekly podcast stated categorically that this business of bridging the two antennas with skin is pure nonsense. The tape solution is useless because there is no problem there. The actual problem has to do with signal blocking, and that occurs when the hand covers enough of the antenna when signal strength is already weak. This calls into question CR's results. I generally respect their intentions, but I don't think they researched this issue fully enough before announcing results. Hope Apple challenges them.





    Yeah, I saw the same Podcast and this has been my feeling all along. It seems the antenna is behaving properly. All antenna's experience attenuation. Pretty much ANY antenna nowadays is located inside the phone, at the bottom.



    When you put the antenna outside the phone, that phone is going to experience MORE attenuation when your hand covers it. But that doesn't mean it won't work, it simply means it will be attenuated. There are phones out there, that tell you not to touch certain parts of the antenna. This isn't new.



    The upside, combined with a few other enhancements, is that the outer antenna enjoys FAR greater reception. The other side of this story (the one not getting as much airtime), is that many people are suddenly able to use the iPhone in places they previously could not. They're able to continue using phones in areas where calls are normally dropped.



    I think there is a software bug, that will tell you there is no service when you can in fact make a call. This was mentioned in Walt Mossberg's review of the phone.



    I think it's the combination of this very new design, the software bug, and perhaps a small amount of units (tens of thousands out of 2 million is an acceptable/normal failure rate) that are faulty.
  • Reply 273 of 406
    daharderdaharder Posts: 1,580member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    I think a lot of ip4 buyers fall into the following categories:
    • People who don't keep up with news of all things apple and don't know this is happening (but may be experiencing the issue.)

    • People who know about the issue and are holding out for Apple to fix it.

    • People who know about the issue, but have accepted the fault as a quirk of the phone and since the offline functions are so nice, they put up with it.

    • And finally, people who are in complete denial and will defend Apple through this no matter what.

    The last item is what gets me. Does everyone know it's ok to be mad at Apple about this?



    Oh They Know...



    They just appear to be trapped in some alternate dimension where their phone somehow defines who they actually are, and any flaw in said device reflects directly upon them.
  • Reply 274 of 406
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    After reading through the thread, I see two analogies that sum up the two sides of the argument:



    "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "Then don't do that"



    and



    "I don't have cancer, so cancer must not exist."





    Really people, which one sounds stupider? If you honestly think this isn't an issue because it's not so hard to just move your hand and hold the phone in a different way, just wait until you have your hands full or something and the call is dropped because you're touching the bottom corner.



    What REALLY irks me is how CR confirmed that putting duct-tape over the corner helped the issue immensely, so that confirms that Apple's putting a thin film over the antenna would help alleviate this issue.



    The solution is simple: Apple should add the finish to the antenna in the production process. Once they start getting to the shelves, Apple & AT&T should allow users to replace theirs with these new fixed ones. The old ones get sent to a factory where they are sent through a disassembly process (which wouldn't even need to be that complicated) and the phone's antenna gets the new coat. The phones are then sold 25% off as refurbs online (random #, I dont know what they should cost).
  • Reply 275 of 406
    etsleeetslee Posts: 18member
    I'm thinking of returning the iphone 4 while I'm in my 30 day return period, and wondered if anyone else has done so. What happens with the AT&T contract and how easy is it to get back on the same plan with my old iphone? I may wait for the software update, but it doesn't sound like that will change anything.
  • Reply 276 of 406
    drowdrow Posts: 121member
    of all the survival disadvantages lefties already suffer, we're worried about whether they can sweaty-grip a phone, too? go eat peanuts.

    </troll>
  • Reply 277 of 406
    bartbuzzbartbuzz Posts: 131member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    In Canada, and elsewhere, the iPhone 4 is/will be available directly from Apple without a contract. The major benefit, is that they will be factory unlocked. We have 5 carriers that support the iPhone here, so the first benefit is that we can then choose any carrier we want (that allowed 'third party' devices on their network) and so pick and choose amongst plans and add-ons. Additionally, we can bring it to any compatible carrier internationally and, assuming the support the iPhone 4 microsim, buy a card and plan and use it freely. The third benefit is being able to sell it to Americans that want to use TMobile.



    Really, I don't see any reason someone would buy an AT&T iPhone without a contract. Contracts are shit, but since you have to pay AT&T to use your iPhone, what practical difference does it really make (other than being able to walk away at any time, I guess).



    Thanks for the reply. Having a choice of carriers is nice but It sounds like the cost in Canada is much higher since the iPhone isn't subsidized. Maybe it's worth the higher cost if the coverage is better? Since I'm with Verizon I've never had reception problems. That's why I'll be patient until they get the iPhone.
  • Reply 278 of 406
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,748member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post


    Thanks for the reply. Having a choice of carriers is nice but It sounds like the cost in Canada is much higher since the iPhone isn't subsidized. Maybe it's worth the higher cost if the coverage is better? Since I'm with Verizon I've never had reception problems. That's why I'll be patient until they get the iPhone.



    The cost is higher, when you buy the unlocked direct from Apple. But, IIRC, in the US you can buy contract free from Apple (and AT&T?). Apple Canada hasn't announced the pricing, but I expect it to be within $50 of the contract free pricing in the US.



    I expect a lot of US users will be driving up here and buying it from Apple so they can use it on TMobile or be truly contract free (and use it internationally). Won't help you at all, since you want to stay with V.
  • Reply 279 of 406
    ruel24ruel24 Posts: 432member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post


    Thanks for the reply. Having a choice of carriers is nice but It sounds like the cost in Canada is much higher since the iPhone isn't subsidized. Maybe it's worth the higher cost if the coverage is better? Since I'm with Verizon I've never had reception problems. That's why I'll be patient until they get the iPhone.



    You do understand that subsidized/unsubsidized - you still pay the same in the end, don't you? You're essentially making monthly payments on the phone when it's subsidized.



    I'm with you. I have Verizon and I'm happy with the service. I tried a Motorola Droid in the store and just was appalled by the crappy quality of the phone. The touchscreen was junk, the phone felt cheap, and Android wasn't near as responsive as my iPod Touch. I'll wait and see what happens. My current contract ends in April next year, so, I have time to wait and see what happens. I hate the thought of moving to AT&T or suffering through using a Droid. I really want to Droid to succeed, but so far, it's just like the PC market: crappy hardware in a race for the bottom. No thanks!
  • Reply 280 of 406
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Of course, the only difference between the $200 phone and the $800 phone, at least in the US, is that the $200 owner is contractually bound for 2 years, while the $800 is not. Assuming the $800 owner didn't buy it as an $800 paperweight, he is going to be paying the same rates for as long as he wants to use it....but he can stop paying and keep it as a very expensive iPod with a contract.



    That was my entire point. The person I was responding to said it was crazy to pay $800 for a new iphone because you can buy one for $200. I was pointing out the error in his logic.
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