I'm not saying that this applies to everyone or that it's even the norm with AT&T, but my experience with AT&T customer service has been nothing but excellent. I really can't complain. It's certainly not something I would describe as being "inspired by Josef Stalin". Obviously, your experience was at the complete opposite end of the spectrum.
I live in St. Louis, a much smaller city than most and generally considered a small market, and pee-stop on the way from NY to LA. I switched from Verizon to ATT to get the iP 3G and actually have better call strength than Verizon did. Correction, Verizon was better when i was not INSIDE a building or structure, and ATT is better INSIDE a structure comparatively. Verizon was way better about signal quality on the go, in the car as well. But, for the most part, i've never had an issue with ATT's customer service, it's about the same as any other Cell phone company. I'm not sure why so many people complain about service. In the 2 years i've had my phone, i've never had to call customer service for anything. I've actually had to call Apple more than once for support on the iPhone rather...of course a simple reset of the phone fixed every problem i've had so far, except for the extreme battery loss, but that's a design flaw of the phone.
Most blogs and reports have been made about the quality and signal attenuation for making phone calls, yet I have not heard anything about quality of WiFi when "bridging the gap" between the two antenne. Has anyone experience signal loss or slower WiFi when holding the phone "wrong"? Just curious.
Just dis a quick test and found no.real difference in wifi speed with and without the deathgrip
I will postpone my upgrade to the 4G from my current 3Gs....Apple will come out with a redesign shortly and then I will upgrade. Stevo must be epileptic!
Best
I WAS on board to upgrade to the iP4 but after all this contraversy, i'm waiting untill the next version. I agree that Apple will have no choice but to either a) modify the existing design so that the antenna issue is fixed, or b) completely update the form factor to an alternate design they had already tested. I think they have no choice but to do this for the iPhone 5 mainly because of the press iP4 is getting.
Mine works great as a phone and even people with the problem note they can make calls better than before.
My only issue with calls is the proximity sensor issue muting and hanging up calls.
I don't have a problem using mine as a phone either. I don't even have the proximity sensor problem.
Bought a bumper last weekend purely because I kept putting the phone somewhere on my desk where it'd slide off and I needed the extra friction to grab it
All I can say is it's a nightmare for Apple. Regardless if it's an isolated case-by-case issue or not. It's real and it's gaining momentum. I work is a non-tech environment and most people don't know diddly about this stuff. But they're all in on the antenna issue. They know iPods, iTunes, most know about the iPad and everyone has heard about the antenna issue. That's scary or it should be for Apple.
I've had my iP4 since launch (actually a day earlier) and before all this came up I didn't notice anything. Once it broke I checked and sure enough my signal bar was all over the place. Sort of made me remorseful that I bought it and worse sold off my iP3G but like CR I loved everything else about the phone and I could call, receive calls and data without a hitch. I've never drop a call even though the signal bar was as I say all over the place. In fact people have even mentioned that the phone sounded excellent on their end and I've notice improved audio fidelity on my side as well. Of course I'm one of about 6 people that are glad the iPhone is on AT&T. I always get great reception and data speeds are about as good as I can hope for most of the time.
Sounds like I should be happy. Actually I am. It's too bad I can't help but read all these reports though. Every time I do I start to get those remorseful feeling again which I know is stupid since I don't really have a problem other than unreliable signal metering. Now I'm not saying there's not people out there with real issues, people dropping calls left and right but I'm sure there's also a lot of people like me that aren't really having any problem but sort of view their purchase as "tainted."
But regardless of where you stand I found this to be a HUGE problem for Apple. This isn't some geeky little problem that only a few percentage know about. It's getting a lot of play on the mainstream media and if a bunch of Luddite firefighter have heard about it enough to comment then they've (Apple) have some real work ahead.
Perhaps AT&T and Apple could just put out an iPhone 4 voice coverage map removing all those pesky places with signal low enough to drop calls when you hold the phone in your hand (without a case).
Choice 1, take the beautiful design and stick tape to it.
Choice 2, pay $30 (15% of the phone price) for a bumper case.
Both nessesary to use this phone as a PHONE.
An analogy to help understand these options.
Say I buy a nice new car for $20,000 (maybe not that nice for only 20k) but the car over heats if you drive it (you know, that thing a car is primarily made for. How would this solution sound:
Cut a big ugly hole in the front or pay $3,000 (15% again) to put a pretty cover over a hole on the front.
Now I know what your thinking, this car still comes with the best speakers and tires of any other car out there so who cares if it has problems being driven...
Bottom line, the iPhone 4 is a great device. As a phone it sucks without tape or a case. Would you recommend this device to someone needing a PHONE? consumer reports is rating a smartphone. Requiring it to work as phone without having to buy something else for it before recommending it is not unreasonable.
Perhaps AT&T and Apple could just put out an iPhone 4 voice coverage map removing all those pesky places with signal low enough to drop calls when you hold the phone in your hand (without a case).
OR, there would be a "hand diagram" kind of symbol letting you know how to hold the phone. When it detects a weak signal the icon/symbol pops up. something like C indicating hold delicately, while W indicates hold normally. This icon could go in the top left next to the signal bar icons.
...Sounds like I should be happy. Actually I am. It's too bad I can't help but read all these reports though. Every time I do I start to get those remorseful feeling again which I know is stupid since I don't really have a problem other than unreliable signal metering. Now I'm not saying there's not people out there with real issues, people dropping calls left and right but I'm sure there's also a lot of people like me that aren't really having any problem but sort of view their purchase as "tainted."
You see, I'd say that the above is a valid point as to why we're discussing this whole iPhone4 thing. As Apple users, or those interested in Apple, we also have an emotional connection to the things that Apple do, and we need to express those. I am in a pickle emotionally because I love my iPad, but my Macbook Aluminium had just recently only had some issues sorted out (bad trackpad after less than a year, display unaligned)... Now with the iPhone, we're finding our beliefs, feelings, attitudes challenged in various ways. Sure, there's more important stuff in the world, but we as users need to gauge which way the wind is blowing and plan our finances, purchases, use of Apple products accordingly. For some of us, our income is tied strongly to the performance and decisions of Apple as a company.
We also need to evaluate how Apple react, and what this means for our Apple product use now and in the near future.
The antenna issue is serious, but seemingly easy to fix. I'm still waiting for my iPhone 4 to arrive, and have no concern based on this antenna problem -- I would never use the iPhone4 without a case so the problem will never occur for me.
However, the antenna issue has placed perhaps a more serious flaw on to the back pages which is not being vetted but should be -- regarding a problem detecting when you place the phone to your head to take a call, for example.
Apple's real problem now is their refusal to accept that they have a problem and that it needs to be fixed -- the lack of honesty and integrity.
Apple's stock price and market share and customer loyalty and brand recognition are underpinned by their seeming penchant for quality which cannot be obtained except by continuous and honest self-improvement; that requires honesty and integrity, and not lying to themselves nor to their (potential) customers.
If they blow their reputation now, as they seem to be doing, they are lost. Jobs and company don't seem man enough to admit a mistake.
Toyota is another company whose reputation for quality and integrity has been deservedly sullied. Do Jobs and Apple really want to be seen in the same league as the likes of Toyota, BP and AIG?
See my response to Rokkens post above. The iPhone is a simply amazing piece of technology. However, if you live in an area of low signal strength and dont want to use a case and lack basic motor skills in your left hand then the phone is not for you.
Yeah, that covers it pretty much up. And lucky for me I am living in an area very well covered with 3G network. And no, I don't think I have a left hand motor skill problem. Hence I am still looking forward to get hold of the new device.
It is the best smartphone, bar the design flaw. So they are right on both counts.
A design flaw would be on all phones and that's just not true. The number of folks with this issue is only a tiny percent of the units out there. The number of folks with this issue with no death grip, sweaty fingers, fingers on the black bits and in an area of perfect reception (so you know it must be the phone) is even less
Even Consumer Reports says "in areas with weak reception" in their test report. That second factor blew their test apart because it sets up that it could be the general state of reception in the area that is the issue. Not the fact that Apple has been using ATT's recommended bar display formula and it's way less than ideal and thus is showing erroneous distance to tower readouts (which is really all that is, says nothing about actual reception)
It may not be a problem, it may have been intentional. The antenna has to go somewhere on the bottom of the phone. Thats a law in the US. The antenna has to be away from your head.
Here is my problem with CR, many times they have no clue what they are doing when it comes to testing and using a product, many times what they use as a reason to rate a product higher or low has not real world importance, like many places that review products they get caught up in the numbers and stats of product.
They use to rate mac low all time time due to cost and what they claim it was not compatible with PCs. Gee I own Mac since 84, and they all out lasted any or my friend PC, the never crashed and I all the time share documents between my mac and PC.
Also, their reliability ratings are slanted, they send out surveys to everyone who is a subscriber and those who return them are counted, and as we all know only a small percentage of people actually return these things, and usually the one who do return them are upset about a problem they had and CR is just another way for people to complain. I subscribe to them for over 10 yrs in the 90's and never once return the survey since all my product experience were good.
I am sorry if you going to assess Reliability of a product you need to look at the entire population not just the few people who decided to return a survey and had an ax to grin.
As they say, if someone has a good experience they tell 3 people, if they had a bad one they tell 7 and CR is one of the 7 not always one of the 3 good.
Personally I read individual review of product especially the bad reviews and look at the reason they are complaining to determine if the product is truly bad. Most bad review are because most people had no clue what they were buying or they expect it to do something it could not or they could not figure out how to use it.
Like this issue with the iphone, I agree apple missed this, and probably did not employee left handed testers, however, is this a real world issue under all use cases for every user, maybe or maybe not. I can tell every phone which did not have a traditional antenna I have seen similar problem including my RAZR which was first to have this type of integrated antenna. If you held it the wrong way in your hand it would drop calls even in areas where you had strong signal.
Also, people have to stop comparing CDMA to GSM, GSM as technology does not seem to penetrate buildings and structures including the Human body as well as CDMA. CDMA appears to do much better at this in this case I bet and CDMA iphone would have less of a problem than a GSM version so when people say a Driod X works and the Iphone 4 does not it not an apples to apple comparison
Hardmac's numbers aren't really that tragic. They used a limited group and an unsecured method (someone could pad the numbers very easily). Plus they are trying to imply that they are a sound sampling of all so their 70% is the same as the whole. there's no backing for that.
doesn't shock me, Hardmac is full of tabloid journalism writing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I really wish people would stop with the oversimplifications. There isn't ONE problem, there are 3:
Actually it's 4.
4. Your reception is generally less than stellar.
Even CR says "in areas with weak reception". Nothing is said about areas with great or even decent reception. Which makes it come off like this is an annoyance not a major design flaw. And that small group being affected by it should just return their iphones and get something else. Cause with bad reception in the area, all the fixes in the world won't help them.
Comments
I'm not saying that this applies to everyone or that it's even the norm with AT&T, but my experience with AT&T customer service has been nothing but excellent. I really can't complain. It's certainly not something I would describe as being "inspired by Josef Stalin". Obviously, your experience was at the complete opposite end of the spectrum.
I live in St. Louis, a much smaller city than most and generally considered a small market, and pee-stop on the way from NY to LA. I switched from Verizon to ATT to get the iP 3G and actually have better call strength than Verizon did. Correction, Verizon was better when i was not INSIDE a building or structure, and ATT is better INSIDE a structure comparatively. Verizon was way better about signal quality on the go, in the car as well. But, for the most part, i've never had an issue with ATT's customer service, it's about the same as any other Cell phone company. I'm not sure why so many people complain about service. In the 2 years i've had my phone, i've never had to call customer service for anything. I've actually had to call Apple more than once for support on the iPhone rather...of course a simple reset of the phone fixed every problem i've had so far, except for the extreme battery loss, but that's a design flaw of the phone.
Most blogs and reports have been made about the quality and signal attenuation for making phone calls, yet I have not heard anything about quality of WiFi when "bridging the gap" between the two antenne. Has anyone experience signal loss or slower WiFi when holding the phone "wrong"? Just curious.
Just dis a quick test and found no.real difference in wifi speed with and without the deathgrip
I will postpone my upgrade to the 4G from my current 3Gs....Apple will come out with a redesign shortly and then I will upgrade. Stevo must be epileptic!
Best
I WAS on board to upgrade to the iP4 but after all this contraversy, i'm waiting untill the next version. I agree that Apple will have no choice but to either a) modify the existing design so that the antenna issue is fixed, or b) completely update the form factor to an alternate design they had already tested. I think they have no choice but to do this for the iPhone 5 mainly because of the press iP4 is getting.
Mine works great as a phone and even people with the problem note they can make calls better than before.
My only issue with calls is the proximity sensor issue muting and hanging up calls.
I don't have a problem using mine as a phone either. I don't even have the proximity sensor problem.
Bought a bumper last weekend purely because I kept putting the phone somewhere on my desk where it'd slide off and I needed the extra friction to grab it
I've had my iP4 since launch (actually a day earlier) and before all this came up I didn't notice anything. Once it broke I checked and sure enough my signal bar was all over the place. Sort of made me remorseful that I bought it and worse sold off my iP3G but like CR I loved everything else about the phone and I could call, receive calls and data without a hitch. I've never drop a call even though the signal bar was as I say all over the place. In fact people have even mentioned that the phone sounded excellent on their end and I've notice improved audio fidelity on my side as well. Of course I'm one of about 6 people that are glad the iPhone is on AT&T. I always get great reception and data speeds are about as good as I can hope for most of the time.
Sounds like I should be happy. Actually I am. It's too bad I can't help but read all these reports though. Every time I do I start to get those remorseful feeling again which I know is stupid since I don't really have a problem other than unreliable signal metering. Now I'm not saying there's not people out there with real issues, people dropping calls left and right but I'm sure there's also a lot of people like me that aren't really having any problem but sort of view their purchase as "tainted."
But regardless of where you stand I found this to be a HUGE problem for Apple. This isn't some geeky little problem that only a few percentage know about. It's getting a lot of play on the mainstream media and if a bunch of Luddite firefighter have heard about it enough to comment then they've (Apple) have some real work ahead.
Are you using a case?
I bought a Bumper and I?m waiting for the Marware SportShell for iPhone 4 to ship. The issue is not present with or without Bumper.
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
GOT IT? GOOD
----
From the article:
"...after also noting that applying a piece of tape solves the signal attenuation issues"
If you don't stop yelling, we'll have to put some tape over your mouth.
iPhone starting price $200 on contract.
Choice 1, take the beautiful design and stick tape to it.
Choice 2, pay $30 (15% of the phone price) for a bumper case.
Both nessesary to use this phone as a PHONE.
An analogy to help understand these options.
Say I buy a nice new car for $20,000 (maybe not that nice for only 20k) but the car over heats if you drive it (you know, that thing a car is primarily made for. How would this solution sound:
Cut a big ugly hole in the front or pay $3,000 (15% again) to put a pretty cover over a hole on the front.
Now I know what your thinking, this car still comes with the best speakers and tires of any other car out there so who cares if it has problems being driven...
Bottom line, the iPhone 4 is a great device. As a phone it sucks without tape or a case. Would you recommend this device to someone needing a PHONE? consumer reports is rating a smartphone. Requiring it to work as phone without having to buy something else for it before recommending it is not unreasonable.
FYI: this post written on my iPhone 4.
A sane post.
Perhaps AT&T and Apple could just put out an iPhone 4 voice coverage map removing all those pesky places with signal low enough to drop calls when you hold the phone in your hand (without a case).
OR, there would be a "hand diagram" kind of symbol letting you know how to hold the phone. When it detects a weak signal the icon/symbol pops up. something like C indicating hold delicately, while W indicates hold normally. This icon could go in the top left next to the signal bar icons.
I bought a Bumper and I?m waiting for the Marware SportShell for iPhone 4 to ship. The issue is not present with or without Bumper.
I've found the issue more common around here in Florida with the high humidity making a better conductor out of moist fingers.
...Sounds like I should be happy. Actually I am. It's too bad I can't help but read all these reports though. Every time I do I start to get those remorseful feeling again which I know is stupid since I don't really have a problem other than unreliable signal metering. Now I'm not saying there's not people out there with real issues, people dropping calls left and right but I'm sure there's also a lot of people like me that aren't really having any problem but sort of view their purchase as "tainted."
You see, I'd say that the above is a valid point as to why we're discussing this whole iPhone4 thing. As Apple users, or those interested in Apple, we also have an emotional connection to the things that Apple do, and we need to express those. I am in a pickle emotionally because I love my iPad, but my Macbook Aluminium had just recently only had some issues sorted out (bad trackpad after less than a year, display unaligned)... Now with the iPhone, we're finding our beliefs, feelings, attitudes challenged in various ways. Sure, there's more important stuff in the world, but we as users need to gauge which way the wind is blowing and plan our finances, purchases, use of Apple products accordingly. For some of us, our income is tied strongly to the performance and decisions of Apple as a company.
We also need to evaluate how Apple react, and what this means for our Apple product use now and in the near future.
However, the antenna issue has placed perhaps a more serious flaw on to the back pages which is not being vetted but should be -- regarding a problem detecting when you place the phone to your head to take a call, for example.
Apple's real problem now is their refusal to accept that they have a problem and that it needs to be fixed -- the lack of honesty and integrity.
Apple's stock price and market share and customer loyalty and brand recognition are underpinned by their seeming penchant for quality which cannot be obtained except by continuous and honest self-improvement; that requires honesty and integrity, and not lying to themselves nor to their (potential) customers.
If they blow their reputation now, as they seem to be doing, they are lost. Jobs and company don't seem man enough to admit a mistake.
Toyota is another company whose reputation for quality and integrity has been deservedly sullied. Do Jobs and Apple really want to be seen in the same league as the likes of Toyota, BP and AIG?
See my response to Rokkens post above. The iPhone is a simply amazing piece of technology. However, if you live in an area of low signal strength and dont want to use a case and lack basic motor skills in your left hand then the phone is not for you.
Yeah, that covers it pretty much up. And lucky for me I am living in an area very well covered with 3G network. And no, I don't think I have a left hand motor skill problem. Hence I am still looking forward to get hold of the new device.
It is the best smartphone, bar the design flaw. So they are right on both counts.
A design flaw would be on all phones and that's just not true. The number of folks with this issue is only a tiny percent of the units out there. The number of folks with this issue with no death grip, sweaty fingers, fingers on the black bits and in an area of perfect reception (so you know it must be the phone) is even less
Even Consumer Reports says "in areas with weak reception" in their test report. That second factor blew their test apart because it sets up that it could be the general state of reception in the area that is the issue. Not the fact that Apple has been using ATT's recommended bar display formula and it's way less than ideal and thus is showing erroneous distance to tower readouts (which is really all that is, says nothing about actual reception)
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
A PIECE OF TAPE SOLVES THE PROBLEM
GOT IT? GOOD
----
From the article:
"...after also noting that applying a piece of tape solves the signal attenuation issues"
... "a spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down!"
.
They use to rate mac low all time time due to cost and what they claim it was not compatible with PCs. Gee I own Mac since 84, and they all out lasted any or my friend PC, the never crashed and I all the time share documents between my mac and PC.
Also, their reliability ratings are slanted, they send out surveys to everyone who is a subscriber and those who return them are counted, and as we all know only a small percentage of people actually return these things, and usually the one who do return them are upset about a problem they had and CR is just another way for people to complain. I subscribe to them for over 10 yrs in the 90's and never once return the survey since all my product experience were good.
I am sorry if you going to assess Reliability of a product you need to look at the entire population not just the few people who decided to return a survey and had an ax to grin.
As they say, if someone has a good experience they tell 3 people, if they had a bad one they tell 7 and CR is one of the 7 not always one of the 3 good.
Personally I read individual review of product especially the bad reviews and look at the reason they are complaining to determine if the product is truly bad. Most bad review are because most people had no clue what they were buying or they expect it to do something it could not or they could not figure out how to use it.
Like this issue with the iphone, I agree apple missed this, and probably did not employee left handed testers, however, is this a real world issue under all use cases for every user, maybe or maybe not. I can tell every phone which did not have a traditional antenna I have seen similar problem including my RAZR which was first to have this type of integrated antenna. If you held it the wrong way in your hand it would drop calls even in areas where you had strong signal.
Also, people have to stop comparing CDMA to GSM, GSM as technology does not seem to penetrate buildings and structures including the Human body as well as CDMA. CDMA appears to do much better at this in this case I bet and CDMA iphone would have less of a problem than a GSM version so when people say a Driod X works and the Iphone 4 does not it not an apples to apple comparison
Here's HardMac's take on the French side of things:
http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/07/...antenna-issues
Hardmac's numbers aren't really that tragic. They used a limited group and an unsecured method (someone could pad the numbers very easily). Plus they are trying to imply that they are a sound sampling of all so their 70% is the same as the whole. there's no backing for that.
doesn't shock me, Hardmac is full of tabloid journalism writing.
I really wish people would stop with the oversimplifications. There isn't ONE problem, there are 3:
Actually it's 4.
4. Your reception is generally less than stellar.
Even CR says "in areas with weak reception". Nothing is said about areas with great or even decent reception. Which makes it come off like this is an annoyance not a major design flaw. And that small group being affected by it should just return their iphones and get something else. Cause with bad reception in the area, all the fixes in the world won't help them.