How is the it's being held improperly debate still going. Just watch the WWDC10 presentation or have a look at many of Apple's own ads for the iPhone. Apparently they don't know how to hold it either.
I got an iP4 and I CERTAINLY do not want any bumper. I want the issue fixed!
But what if it's not fixable to your satisfaction ? What if the 'fix' is a free bumper and independent sources say in 99% of cases it fixes the problem. And you're in the 99%?
The point I want to make is that Apple are going to get slammed on Friday, no matter what they say or do. And while the problem is real for you (yes you should want a fix, I have no problem there) in reality the problem may not be as widespread as sufferers believe.
So what does Apple do? recall all iPhones including the ones happy users?
There's really very little Apple can do here. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.
I wish all other CE companies and their products were treated the same as Apple and it's products. That, would lead to better products all round. Alas the web has found it's plaything.
People are so caught up in their phone and how others perceive their identity based off their phone. Perhaps we spend a little more time on ourselves and a little less time fighting about our phone of the moment on a message board.
I'd still like to know what the 4.1 release notes say about this. (Or whether you were just referring to the letter) It seems odd they would put any changes they are intending related to iP4 antenna/bar/signal problems into a developer beta in final form but not actually release them to users.
In this thread at MacRumors several users are reporting that the bars have changed:
Exactly. Fortune surveyed 25 AT&T stores and found that a total of 11 iPhones had been returned. Obviously the number of people who are unhappy enough to do something other than whine is tiny.
people would still complain.
There are people out there who just like to whine.
Of course, that still wouldn't shut up the whiners,
Isn't that the way things always are? Whiners - gotta love them.
This is why the many positive reports on the new antenna from the public, from the tech press, and from antenna engineers who have come forward in recent days have been overshadowed.
Apple said
At the same time, we continue to read articles and receive hundreds of emails from users saying that iPhone 4 reception is better than the iPhone 3GS. They are delighted. This matches our own experience and testing.
Not to mention that CR rated it the highest ever.
This is all a big media frenzy and Steve will end it on Friday.
At the same time, we continue to read articles and receive hundreds of emails from users saying that iPhone 4 reception is better than the iPhone 3GS. They are delighted. This matches our own experience and testing.
Not to mention that CR rated it the highest ever.
This is all a big media frenzy and Steve will end it on Friday.
Steve will give everyone in the audience free ice cream and everyone will leave happy.
Well, if the world was full of intelligent reasonable people that like hearing the truth then telling people they are holding it wrong would actually be the *best* way to go, since that's essentially the only problem.
The trouble is that Steve and Co. have no idea how the average dumb-ass consumers reacts to statements like that. So, yeah. It was a bad move I guess.
If Panasonic introduced their latest and greatest Plama TV that was a tour de force of technology and had one slight flaw - the picture was displayed upside down - by your logic (sic) 'intelligent reasonable' people should be perfectly happy with Panasonics explanation - 'you are viewing it the wrong way' and should just adapt by standing on their heads instead of returning the not fit for purpose device they had purchased.
How about a car where turning the steering wheel to the left makes it go right, and vise versa - 'you're steering it wrong'.
No, I was responding to the post saying how "arrogant" and so forth Apple's statements on the iPhone 4 antenna have been.
I'm saying that the fact that the consumers didn't appreciate the truth of the statement "your holding it wrong," and instead take it as an insult, is basically due to their lack of intelligence/savy/perception/etc. I was also poking fun at Apple a bit for being in so elitist that it never even occurred to them that a lot of people hold the phone in this troglodytic "cupped-paw-to-the-head" fashion that stops the signal.
The phone is what it is. I think it's a great design and don't believe there is any problem with it given that it works exactly the way it was designed to work and does so exceedingly well. It seems obvious to me that the signal degradation that occurs when you hold the phone the "wrong way," is far from a surprise to the engineers and not a "flaw" per se. It was designed that way.
If there are iPhone 4's that are defective in some way (and I'm not really convinced there are yet), then it's certainly not all of them, or even a large number of them.
If we are going to talk about consumer's not appreciating the truth of the statement we need to get the quote right. "don't hold it that way." was the quote. "your holding it wrong" is paraphrasing the quote to make it sound more insulting and condescending. "your holding it wrong" is pretty insulting in my opinion. Don't hold it that way followed by an explanation pointing out that the antenna is located in that spot is informative. I'm not a big fan of the sjobs response on the issue but if we are going to have a discussion we should use the actual words not the worst case paraphrase.
Exactly. Fortune surveyed 25 AT&T stores and found that a total of 11 iPhones had been returned. Obviously the number of people who are unhappy enough to do something other than whine is tiny.
Nothing would satisfy the heat. If Apple said that they were releasing iPhone 5 immediately and iPhone 5 was good enough to have a phone conversation with your sister on Mars (at least, that's where I think my sister is from) AND they were going to give everyone a new phone plus a check for $50,000 for the inconvenience, people would still complain.
There are people out there who just like to whine.
Realistically, what I expect is Apple to introduce some hard core lab data done by an independent lab showing the iPhone's reception to be exceptional - with or without a case. They will then report that less than 0.05% of iPhone customers have asked for a refund. Then they will say that they have found that 0.3% of iPhones are actually defective from the factory, about 1/10 the number of defective phones from other manufacturers.
Of course, that still wouldn't shut up the whiners, but maybe it will slow them down a bit.
Yea, there are whiners. But the big problem came not because of the minor problem with the iPhone 4, but rather it's due to the piss-poor job of Apple's response to the issue.
If Panasonic introduced their latest and greatest Plama TV that was a tour de force of technology and had one slight flaw - the picture was displayed upside down - by your logic (sic) 'intelligent reasonable' people should be perfectly happy with Panasonics explanation - 'you are viewing it the wrong way' and should just adapt by standing on their heads instead of returning the not fir for purpose device they had purchased.
How about a car where turning the steering wheel to the left makes it go right, and vise versa - 'you're steering it wrong'.
It's funny you should use Panasonic as your theoretical example. Their 2009 plasmas were considered the best television you could buy last year, and one of the major selling points was black levels that bested all other 2009 televisions. Then after owners had their Panasonic's for 500-1000 hours, their black levels doubled or even tripled in brightness to levels far worse than their closest competitors. People were outraged, considering that was one of the major reasons they bought a Panasonic plasma in the first place. Did Panasonic recall all of their 2009 plasmas? No. Did they find a fix or replace people's televisions? No. Their official response was that this was normal behavior, and that 2010 models would have black levels that rise much more gradually so that they won't triple in a single day. No other manufacturer's televisions have this problem.
Wow...this whole episode proves that there are some really dumb asses in this country.The iPhone 4 is the best cell phone/personal media device EVER created and it is getting trashed by a bunch of tards who cant for the life of them figure out how not to cover that one little area of their phone!
I almost bet that the answer that Apple is gonna give friday will *not* be a good answer. It won't satisfy the heat.
How do we know this? Easy. It's not Apple sauce. When Apple fucks up they are lousy in the interim until they get the full fix. That one will take time, since the problem here is the "brilliant" design that Ive produced. Oh boy oh boy....
I'm with you on this one. Living near silicon valley, I've known a small handful of people who actually work at Apple in various departments and many have recently conveyed a sentiment that industrial design has recently overshadowed utility and it is now almost taboo to question the design team. Even minor stuff like the super sharp edges on the unibody MacBooks on the lower body where you place your fingers to lift the screen. To question or suggest something like smoothing or grinding the edges a bit is considered unacceptable.
So yes, I suspect and fear that Apple will simply reiterate its position and will do nothing more than attempt to "set the record straight" and just hope the media buys into it. And if that does come to pass, well... It would be very sad indeed.
Try holding your phone in your hand so that you hand is cupped around the antenna and then put it to your head. It's practically impossible to even hold it that way. The only time it's even do-able holding the phone this way, is when it's in your hand in front of you.
If you put the phone in your left hand so that the meat of your palm covers the spot (like in all the pictures), it gets really awkward holding onto it the closer you get to your head. In fact, your elbow ends up in front of your stomach if you try it. The natural "proper" way to hold a phone leaves you holding mostly onto the top of it in some way, with the bottom part slightly away from your face.
Take a look at the people you see in the street making phone calls. Not one of them (or very, very , very few of them), are "holding it wrong." It doesn't take a genius to hold a phone properly.
1. You don't actually have to "cup your hand around the phone" to make it fail. I've handed the phone off to somebody or switched hands (as another user mentioned) and dropped calls. It's ridiculous.
2. Why are you and 5 other guys on here trying to defend this phone?
I actually went out and purchased an AT&T Microcell to try and get rid of the problem, but if I don't sit right next to the Microcell... it drops the call in about a second or two. It's really not cool.
I'm glad it works for you. In fact, I would go as far as saying I'm jealous that it works for you, but it doesn't work for me and many others on here. So don't act like it's just a bunch of whiners trying to get attention. You have no idea who we are or what sort of problems we're having with the phone. What would I have to gain if I said the phone didn't work?
It's pretty cut and dry. Does the phone work the way it was designed to work? The answer is NO. The phone was not designed to have an additional END CALL button on the side of the phone.
I was determined to wait until the software update came out to see if they had a fix. I have been reading that the beta was not fixing it, so I had planned on returning the phone tomorrow. Not even 15 minutes after reading that, I read that Apple is supposed to make an announcement on Friday. I just want them to be up front.
Do I need to live with the phone in the state that it is in or are they going to fix the thing? If they aren't recalling it or fixing it, I'll simply return it and continue using my iPhone 3Gs. If they are honest, I'll have no problem buying the revised iPhone 4 or iPhone 5. If they are going to continue to lie to us, and make excuses, I'll take my business elsewhere. \
I'm with you on this one. Living near silicon valley, I've known a small handful of people who actually work at Apple in various departments and many have recently conveyed a sentiment that industrial design has recently overshadowed utility and it is now almost taboo to question the design team. Even minor stuff like the super sharp edges on the unibody MacBooks on the lower body where you place your fingers to lift the screen. To question or suggest something like smoothing or grinding the edges a bit is considered unacceptable.
So yes, I suspect and fear that Apple will simply reiterate its position and will do nothing more than attempt to "set the record straight" and just hope the media buys into it. And if that does come to pass, well... It would be very sad indeed.
You sound sad, and despirited by it all. I hear you - But What can Apple actually do to come out of this smelling of roses ?
Nothing - doesn't matter what they do, they're going to be damned and the frenzy will continue. Meanwhile ( as I've read elsewhere on this forum) ATT stores have a grand total of 25 iP4's returned ... .
Comments
It's a cop out.
I got an iP4 and I CERTAINLY do not want any bumper. I want the issue fixed!
But what if it's not fixable to your satisfaction ? What if the 'fix' is a free bumper and independent sources say in 99% of cases it fixes the problem. And you're in the 99%?
The point I want to make is that Apple are going to get slammed on Friday, no matter what they say or do. And while the problem is real for you (yes you should want a fix, I have no problem there) in reality the problem may not be as widespread as sufferers believe.
So what does Apple do? recall all iPhones including the ones happy users?
There's really very little Apple can do here. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.
I wish all other CE companies and their products were treated the same as Apple and it's products. That, would lead to better products all round. Alas the web has found it's plaything.
There's nothing 'alleged' about these iPhone4 issues - They're Real, and Apple needs to address them now.
.
dumbass journalist and blogger, until the swiftboat is demolished and sinking into the mud at the bottom of the bay.
/
Are you saying that Apple is like John Kerry?
I'd still like to know what the 4.1 release notes say about this. (Or whether you were just referring to the letter) It seems odd they would put any changes they are intending related to iP4 antenna/bar/signal problems into a developer beta in final form but not actually release them to users.
In this thread at MacRumors several users are reporting that the bars have changed:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...=967698&page=4
Exactly. Fortune surveyed 25 AT&T stores and found that a total of 11 iPhones had been returned. Obviously the number of people who are unhappy enough to do something other than whine is tiny.
people would still complain.
There are people out there who just like to whine.
Of course, that still wouldn't shut up the whiners,
Isn't that the way things always are? Whiners - gotta love them.
This is why the many positive reports on the new antenna from the public, from the tech press, and from antenna engineers who have come forward in recent days have been overshadowed.
Apple said
At the same time, we continue to read articles and receive hundreds of emails from users saying that iPhone 4 reception is better than the iPhone 3GS. They are delighted. This matches our own experience and testing.
Not to mention that CR rated it the highest ever.
This is all a big media frenzy and Steve will end it on Friday.
Apple said
At the same time, we continue to read articles and receive hundreds of emails from users saying that iPhone 4 reception is better than the iPhone 3GS. They are delighted. This matches our own experience and testing.
Not to mention that CR rated it the highest ever.
This is all a big media frenzy and Steve will end it on Friday.
Steve will give everyone in the audience free ice cream and everyone will leave happy.
Well, if the world was full of intelligent reasonable people that like hearing the truth then telling people they are holding it wrong would actually be the *best* way to go, since that's essentially the only problem.
The trouble is that Steve and Co. have no idea how the average dumb-ass consumers reacts to statements like that. So, yeah. It was a bad move I guess.
If Panasonic introduced their latest and greatest Plama TV that was a tour de force of technology and had one slight flaw - the picture was displayed upside down - by your logic (sic) 'intelligent reasonable' people should be perfectly happy with Panasonics explanation - 'you are viewing it the wrong way' and should just adapt by standing on their heads instead of returning the not fit for purpose device they had purchased.
How about a car where turning the steering wheel to the left makes it go right, and vise versa - 'you're steering it wrong'.
Frankly, there's no problem with the iPhone.
That's going a bit too far. It would be more accurate to say that Apple found an issue, and is working on a software fix.
No, I was responding to the post saying how "arrogant" and so forth Apple's statements on the iPhone 4 antenna have been.
I'm saying that the fact that the consumers didn't appreciate the truth of the statement "your holding it wrong," and instead take it as an insult, is basically due to their lack of intelligence/savy/perception/etc. I was also poking fun at Apple a bit for being in so elitist that it never even occurred to them that a lot of people hold the phone in this troglodytic "cupped-paw-to-the-head" fashion that stops the signal.
The phone is what it is. I think it's a great design and don't believe there is any problem with it given that it works exactly the way it was designed to work and does so exceedingly well. It seems obvious to me that the signal degradation that occurs when you hold the phone the "wrong way," is far from a surprise to the engineers and not a "flaw" per se. It was designed that way.
If there are iPhone 4's that are defective in some way (and I'm not really convinced there are yet), then it's certainly not all of them, or even a large number of them.
If we are going to talk about consumer's not appreciating the truth of the statement we need to get the quote right. "don't hold it that way." was the quote. "your holding it wrong" is paraphrasing the quote to make it sound more insulting and condescending. "your holding it wrong" is pretty insulting in my opinion. Don't hold it that way followed by an explanation pointing out that the antenna is located in that spot is informative. I'm not a big fan of the sjobs response on the issue but if we are going to have a discussion we should use the actual words not the worst case paraphrase.
I recommend apple apply a sticker to the gap, labeling it the "hangup call" button. They should file a patent!!!
/QUOTE]
That's great! Its not a bug, its a FEATURE! Brilliant!
Exactly. Fortune surveyed 25 AT&T stores and found that a total of 11 iPhones had been returned. Obviously the number of people who are unhappy enough to do something other than whine is tiny.
Nothing would satisfy the heat. If Apple said that they were releasing iPhone 5 immediately and iPhone 5 was good enough to have a phone conversation with your sister on Mars (at least, that's where I think my sister is from) AND they were going to give everyone a new phone plus a check for $50,000 for the inconvenience, people would still complain.
There are people out there who just like to whine.
Realistically, what I expect is Apple to introduce some hard core lab data done by an independent lab showing the iPhone's reception to be exceptional - with or without a case. They will then report that less than 0.05% of iPhone customers have asked for a refund. Then they will say that they have found that 0.3% of iPhones are actually defective from the factory, about 1/10 the number of defective phones from other manufacturers.
Of course, that still wouldn't shut up the whiners, but maybe it will slow them down a bit.
Yea, there are whiners. But the big problem came not because of the minor problem with the iPhone 4, but rather it's due to the piss-poor job of Apple's response to the issue.
If Panasonic introduced their latest and greatest Plama TV that was a tour de force of technology and had one slight flaw - the picture was displayed upside down - by your logic (sic) 'intelligent reasonable' people should be perfectly happy with Panasonics explanation - 'you are viewing it the wrong way' and should just adapt by standing on their heads instead of returning the not fir for purpose device they had purchased.
How about a car where turning the steering wheel to the left makes it go right, and vise versa - 'you're steering it wrong'.
It's funny you should use Panasonic as your theoretical example. Their 2009 plasmas were considered the best television you could buy last year, and one of the major selling points was black levels that bested all other 2009 televisions. Then after owners had their Panasonic's for 500-1000 hours, their black levels doubled or even tripled in brightness to levels far worse than their closest competitors. People were outraged, considering that was one of the major reasons they bought a Panasonic plasma in the first place. Did Panasonic recall all of their 2009 plasmas? No. Did they find a fix or replace people's televisions? No. Their official response was that this was normal behavior, and that 2010 models would have black levels that rise much more gradually so that they won't triple in a single day. No other manufacturer's televisions have this problem.
Wow...this whole episode proves that there are some really dumb asses in this country.The iPhone 4 is the best cell phone/personal media device EVER created and it is getting trashed by a bunch of tards who cant for the life of them figure out how not to cover that one little area of their phone!
Man there are some stupid people out there.
You've clearly illustrated that point.
Are you saying that Apple is like John Kerry?
I am saying the tactics being used against Apple remind me of those used against Kerry.
I hope Apple does not make the mistake Kerry made of not fighting back. I believe
Steve Jobs has considerably more backbone than Kerry.
This is bad.
Very bad.
I almost bet that the answer that Apple is gonna give friday will *not* be a good answer. It won't satisfy the heat.
How do we know this? Easy. It's not Apple sauce. When Apple fucks up they are lousy in the interim until they get the full fix. That one will take time, since the problem here is the "brilliant" design that Ive produced. Oh boy oh boy....
I'm with you on this one. Living near silicon valley, I've known a small handful of people who actually work at Apple in various departments and many have recently conveyed a sentiment that industrial design has recently overshadowed utility and it is now almost taboo to question the design team. Even minor stuff like the super sharp edges on the unibody MacBooks on the lower body where you place your fingers to lift the screen. To question or suggest something like smoothing or grinding the edges a bit is considered unacceptable.
So yes, I suspect and fear that Apple will simply reiterate its position and will do nothing more than attempt to "set the record straight" and just hope the media buys into it. And if that does come to pass, well... It would be very sad indeed.
Try holding your phone in your hand so that you hand is cupped around the antenna and then put it to your head. It's practically impossible to even hold it that way. The only time it's even do-able holding the phone this way, is when it's in your hand in front of you.
If you put the phone in your left hand so that the meat of your palm covers the spot (like in all the pictures), it gets really awkward holding onto it the closer you get to your head. In fact, your elbow ends up in front of your stomach if you try it. The natural "proper" way to hold a phone leaves you holding mostly onto the top of it in some way, with the bottom part slightly away from your face.
Take a look at the people you see in the street making phone calls. Not one of them (or very, very , very few of them), are "holding it wrong." It doesn't take a genius to hold a phone properly.
1. You don't actually have to "cup your hand around the phone" to make it fail. I've handed the phone off to somebody or switched hands (as another user mentioned) and dropped calls. It's ridiculous.
2. Why are you and 5 other guys on here trying to defend this phone?
I actually went out and purchased an AT&T Microcell to try and get rid of the problem, but if I don't sit right next to the Microcell... it drops the call in about a second or two. It's really not cool.
I'm glad it works for you. In fact, I would go as far as saying I'm jealous that it works for you, but it doesn't work for me and many others on here. So don't act like it's just a bunch of whiners trying to get attention. You have no idea who we are or what sort of problems we're having with the phone. What would I have to gain if I said the phone didn't work?
It's pretty cut and dry. Does the phone work the way it was designed to work? The answer is NO. The phone was not designed to have an additional END CALL button on the side of the phone.
I was determined to wait until the software update came out to see if they had a fix. I have been reading that the beta was not fixing it, so I had planned on returning the phone tomorrow. Not even 15 minutes after reading that, I read that Apple is supposed to make an announcement on Friday. I just want them to be up front.
Do I need to live with the phone in the state that it is in or are they going to fix the thing? If they aren't recalling it or fixing it, I'll simply return it and continue using my iPhone 3Gs. If they are honest, I'll have no problem buying the revised iPhone 4 or iPhone 5. If they are going to continue to lie to us, and make excuses, I'll take my business elsewhere.
I'm with you on this one. Living near silicon valley, I've known a small handful of people who actually work at Apple in various departments and many have recently conveyed a sentiment that industrial design has recently overshadowed utility and it is now almost taboo to question the design team. Even minor stuff like the super sharp edges on the unibody MacBooks on the lower body where you place your fingers to lift the screen. To question or suggest something like smoothing or grinding the edges a bit is considered unacceptable.
So yes, I suspect and fear that Apple will simply reiterate its position and will do nothing more than attempt to "set the record straight" and just hope the media buys into it. And if that does come to pass, well... It would be very sad indeed.
You sound sad, and despirited by it all. I hear you - But What can Apple actually do to come out of this smelling of roses ?
Nothing - doesn't matter what they do, they're going to be damned and the frenzy will continue. Meanwhile ( as I've read elsewhere on this forum) ATT stores have a grand total of 25 iP4's returned ... .