1. Available from third parties if you need it. Apparently, Apple's research says that the number of people who would use it is too small to justify inclusion as a standard (or even BTO option)
Well, you have to wonder if it would really cost Apple all that much to offer a BR drive as a BTO option for the MacPro. In reality, I think the reason they don't offer it is because you can buy one from OWC for somewhere between $164.99-$219.99 depending on which model you selected. At those prices, it definitely not worth their trouble. This is pure speculation, but if they did have a hypothetical BTO option for a BR drive, it would probably be at least $300 if not more.
OWC (Other World Computing) has great deals of Firewire HDD. Excellent product selection and great customer service if you run into a problem. Check out there Mercury Elite Pro series. It's all that you need if you are looking into a firewire desktop set up.
And OWC's drives are reliable. Something Lacie has never been able to claim.
Not true. The MacPro machines have always been in line with similar high end machines (hint, if the machine has a desktop processor instead of a Xeon, it doesn't count). Granted, they couldn't compete with a home-built machine, but they never intended to.
What's not true? The previous base model was 8 core and it went to four cores so for most things, it is absolutely true that it is outperformed by the previous model for many things. Also true that the i7 imac outperforms it on a number of things as well as PC's that are even cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I would also like to see a tower targeted more at consumers (desktop CPU instead of Xeon, less expensive case and internals) than at professionals, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. For now, the Mac Pro is a high end professional graphics workstation - and it's priced that way.
Totally agree that they should make a midrange headless machine. But while the MP is priced like a Workstation, the quad model absolutely does NOT perform like one, same goes for only having 4 ram slots.
These days if you want power, you better build your own machine from proven OSX compatible parts.
Depends.
If your business depends on it, you're probably going to buy a high quality name brand system. If you're a gamer looking for a few extra fps at the lowest possible cost, then I'd agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder
What's not true? The previous base model was 8 core and it went to four cores so for most things, it is absolutely true that it is outperformed by the previous model for many things. Also true that the i7 imac outperforms it on a number of things as well as PC's that are even cheaper..
What's your purpose in being here if you can't even get your basic facts right? The Xeon Mac pro has always had a 4 core base configuration.
As for the iMac i7 being faster at some things, that's undoubtedly true. So? If you looked hard enough, you could probably find one test that shows a base mustang to be faster than a Corvette Z1. That doesn't mean that it's a better choice. OTOH, a pickup is always slower than a Z1 - yet it can be a better choice for some things. The point is that they're different computers with different purposes.
Considering that the next gen will be 6/12 cores, I wouldn't call that a plateau. And no, Apple isn't using the same chips that are available in PC's, at least not yet. We're not talking about stupid features, we're talking about potentially a major speed bump.
Meh. The systems I work with, work like they should and run for an average of 5 years before they are retired or repurposed. What's with the crazy upgrade cycle? Don't you have to upgrade the cards, the decks, the cameras, the I/o's etc etc? Not a huge gain for the expense. Personally that's not how I like to see money spent. I'd rather give out a bonus at the end of the year, than giving crew the latest and greatest just because. It's a little like buying your wife a bowling ball. Personally. if it does what it's supposed to and does it without fail then why replace it? For a speed bump? Honestly I've never upgraded a machine less than 3 years old and said "oh my god I wish I had upgraded sooner!. This machine just saved me hours of work".
Still waiting for Mac Pro refresh. I was also waiting on Blu-Ray authoring support in FC Studio, but I've all but given up on that production stack. Adobe's Premiere Pro CS5 includes Blu-Ray authoring and you can always add a Blu-Ray burner to any Mac.
I'm not a fan of Blu-Ray, but it does offer really good picture quality (1080p not 720p), and I don't think Apple supporting it will somehow make a difference if its days are in fact numbered. I do think that it will likely be the last of the widespread optical formats used for mass content distribution. If broadband adoption really picks up in North America, it could be the tipping point needed for cloud-based content distribution to take over. Cable companies have already been pushing video-on-demand systems. I'm sure Apple wants in.
I don't understand why Apple doesn't do a basic hardware refresh every 6 months for their desktops, they wouldn't have to redesign the asphetics at all.
Because it's not generally needed. Remember that Apple sells to more than the folks that work at Pixar etc.
Quote:
The current generation of Mac Pro's are now a joke and Apple should be ashamed to still be trying to sell them, even the iMacs are really starting to show their age (internally I mean).
Not really. The imacs aren't even a year old. And until just recently there have been nothing of great note to improve the Mac Pro with. Now we are seeing the release of new processors, bigger hard drives, better graphics, and even things like USB 3.0 are reaching 'ready for prime time'. So now there's something with what to improve the machines. And we could see updated pro apps at the same time.
Oh and someone should really tell Hardmac that Apple's "Back to School" sales start in May. Getting that detail wrong, repeatedly, really dings their credibility
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd
apple needs to finally support blu-Ray.
No they don't. Not because a handful of folks are screaming its a huge issue.
They don't block the use of an external drive for data storage or movie burning. They don't block the use of 3rd party software for set up of the disks. They include support in their pro apps for making videos of the right quality.
So just because you can't put a blu-ray in your machine and play it doesn't mean they don't support them. Heck you can't really appreciate a blu ray even on the 27 inch. they were made for twice that. So very few folks will bother.
As for the iMac i7 being faster at some things, that's undoubtedly true. So?
So if a user is going to pay a "high end" price they better get high end performance. Or at least performance that beats machines that are half the price. And no, it's not just some obscure funky test, there are plenty of real world mainstream uses where the MP is slower.
We're talking about price and performance, and the quad MP fails that in a big way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spliff monkey
Meh. The systems I work with, work like they should and run for an average of 5 years before they are retired or repurposed. What's with the crazy upgrade cycle? Don't you have to upgrade the cards, the decks, the cameras, the I/o's etc etc? Not a huge gain for the expense. Personally that's not how I like to see money spent. I'd rather give out a bonus at the end of the year, than giving crew the latest and greatest just because. It's a little like buying your wife a bowling ball. Personally. if it does what it's supposed to and does it without fail then why replace it? For a speed bump? Honestly I've never upgraded a machine less than 3 years old and said "oh my god I wish I had upgraded sooner!. This machine just saved me hours of work".
I never said anything about a crazy upgrade cycle, and see no connection between my post and your reply.
I'm talking about people who are in the market for a new machine because they ARE at the end of a reasonable upgrade cycle. Those people are better off waiting and getting a 6 or 12 core machine in a month or two instead of 4/8 that are shipping today. Plus hopefully more ram slots and other improvements, as well as the possibility of a lower price. AND even if you don't need that much power, it STILL makes sense to wait because once the new machines are announced, they put the previous generation on sale.
by the end of the summer?? in time for its back to school sale?? how many students need a mac pro? how many students can afford a mac pro? no blu-ray??
Millions of students, actually. When your average tuition and fees, plus room and board is surpassing 20k/yr then yeah, that drop into your education fund is not massive.
Hell, we students were paying > $3k for an IBM PC 386 when it came out in 1988.
Seriously, don't give me a sob story about poor college students when they drive around in luxury cars, trucks or motorcycles, or dress down in fashion current torn jeans that are $500 a pair.
Apple isn't targeting the Mac Pro for back to school. It's targeting it at a time that coincides with both Back to School and the first Quarter of Business near Labor Day.
I would like to see eSATA added as a port on the iMac because I would rather not buy a MacPro to replace the G5 tower.
Now that is an idea I can support. Even if it's just a custom build option to replace one of your usb ports with esata on a 27 inch (which is what most folks will likely get if they want to 'pro' an imac) or swap the SD slot for a blank PCI and use an esata card.
in fact I wish they had left the high end 15 inch laptops as blank PCI. My company has a couple of 15 inch laptops (17 is too cumbersome) that we'd like to replace. But we need that esata option.
I assume you are using an iPad - what apps are you using?
I'm not an IT expert by any means and we have all macs in the studio, so I had been using remote tap on my phone before my ipad, still do. Something is going on with remote tap though; It's not on the store and the devs say an iphone OS 4 issue needs to be resolved. Too bad it was a good program. Hope they come back with ipad support. Anyway, I've started using jump desktop on my ipad. The interface isn't as smooth or as much fun, but it has worked well.
I never said anything about a crazy upgrade cycle, and see no connection between my post and your reply.
I'm talking about people who are in the market for a new machine because they ARE at the end of a reasonable upgrade cycle. Those people are better off waiting and getting a 6 or 12 core machine in a month or two instead of 4/8 that are shipping today. Plus hopefully more ram slots and other improvements, as well as the possibility of a lower price. AND even if you don't need that much power, it STILL makes sense to wait because once the new machines are announced, they put the previous generation on sale.
Fair enough, but this has always been a problem. We aren't psychics after all. My point is what are you replacing? If it's 3-5 years old, what you buy today will kill the old machine. What might be available the very next day will only be a slight improvement over what you purchased yesterday.
I got the "crazy upgrade cycle" from the assumption that the only reason you'd be upset if you bought a 4 core machine today and it was replaced by a 6 core machine tomorrow would be if you weren't replacing a single core machine. Otherwise you'd say to yourself "Meh, this machine is still allot better than my old system and wither will still last me 3-5 years. I don't know. That's how I look at it. Otherwise my head would explode every time I needed to replace hardware. Apple's development cycle has always been this way. It's not perfectionist, bleeding edge, crazy newest friendly at all. You will go mad thinking about it.
Hardly a troll. I have been using Apple computers since my II GS in 1989... I just don't kiss Apple's ass over everything they release (or about to release).
According to MacRumor's buyer's guide, the current MacPro is over 500 days old without an update. That is pathetic. Plain and simple.
Yes. But that's hardly what you wrote. You made a statement that suggested that the update, whatever it will be, is underpowered and overpriced.
September/October - Apple upgrades the iMac with USB 3.0 and slightly faster CPU, GPU.
November - Intel releases their next generation chipset and desktop processors
Sorry Steve, but Intel publishes these things months, if not years, in advance. Anyone who cares to know can find out when new stuff is coming. For Apple to drag its feet and then pop out an update just before Intel makes a big jump forward tells me that, contrary to what you said on stage today, you don't love your Mac users.
I don't really *need* a new Mac so I'm going to adopt Apple's strategy of milking as much time out of old hardware as possible. If Apple ever figures out how to release computers more than 2 months before they're superseded be sure to get in touch with me. In the meantime I'm spending my new iMac money on golf clubs and lessons. See you on the links!
No they don't. Not because a handful of folks are screaming its a huge issue.
They don't block the use of an external drive for data storage or movie burning. They don't block the use of 3rd party software for set up of the disks. They include support in their pro apps for making videos of the right quality.
So just because you can't put a blu-ray in your machine and play it doesn't mean they don't support them. Heck you can't really appreciate a blu ray even on the 27 inch. they were made for twice that. So very few folks will bother.
"handful of folks", really, thats cute! I guess that's why so many people always complains about it. Watching movies on a notebook may seem trivial to some but as someone in the military, it's important to me. Also Blu-rays don't need to be watched in full resolution to enjoy. Blu-ray movies would fill the monitor, a dvd doesn't even fill half. Thats only looking at it from a resolution perspective yet alone... Point is, you're moronic if you think there isn't a difference!
Hardly a troll. I have been using Apple computers since my II GS in 1989... I just don't kiss Apple's ass over everything they release (or about to release).
According to MacRumor's buyer's guide, the current MacPro is over 500 days old without an update. That is pathetic. Plain and simple.
Complaining that an unreleased, unspecified update is "underpowered and overpriced" makes you a troll, and not very smart, no matter how long you have supposedly used a Mac.
Well, there are not so many USB3 devices yet, so there's no need to want it so badly. Maybe year past you'll think "oh, all flash pendrives are USB3 now ? it's time to upgrade" ? but not now.
And OWC's drives are reliable. Something Lacie has never been able to claim.
I really agree! I've had 2 La Cie drives fail within the warranty period and never had a OWC drive fail after buying 4 La Cie enclosures and at least 10 OWC drives.
Comments
1. Available from third parties if you need it. Apparently, Apple's research says that the number of people who would use it is too small to justify inclusion as a standard (or even BTO option)
Well, you have to wonder if it would really cost Apple all that much to offer a BR drive as a BTO option for the MacPro. In reality, I think the reason they don't offer it is because you can buy one from OWC for somewhere between $164.99-$219.99 depending on which model you selected. At those prices, it definitely not worth their trouble. This is pure speculation, but if they did have a hypothetical BTO option for a BR drive, it would probably be at least $300 if not more.
OWC (Other World Computing) has great deals of Firewire HDD. Excellent product selection and great customer service if you run into a problem. Check out there Mercury Elite Pro series. It's all that you need if you are looking into a firewire desktop set up.
And OWC's drives are reliable. Something Lacie has never been able to claim.
Not true. The MacPro machines have always been in line with similar high end machines (hint, if the machine has a desktop processor instead of a Xeon, it doesn't count). Granted, they couldn't compete with a home-built machine, but they never intended to.
What's not true? The previous base model was 8 core and it went to four cores so for most things, it is absolutely true that it is outperformed by the previous model for many things. Also true that the i7 imac outperforms it on a number of things as well as PC's that are even cheaper.
I would also like to see a tower targeted more at consumers (desktop CPU instead of Xeon, less expensive case and internals) than at professionals, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. For now, the Mac Pro is a high end professional graphics workstation - and it's priced that way.
Totally agree that they should make a midrange headless machine. But while the MP is priced like a Workstation, the quad model absolutely does NOT perform like one, same goes for only having 4 ram slots.
These days if you want power, you better build your own machine from proven OSX compatible parts.
Depends.
If your business depends on it, you're probably going to buy a high quality name brand system. If you're a gamer looking for a few extra fps at the lowest possible cost, then I'd agree with you.
What's not true? The previous base model was 8 core and it went to four cores so for most things, it is absolutely true that it is outperformed by the previous model for many things. Also true that the i7 imac outperforms it on a number of things as well as PC's that are even cheaper..
What's your purpose in being here if you can't even get your basic facts right? The Xeon Mac pro has always had a 4 core base configuration.
As for the iMac i7 being faster at some things, that's undoubtedly true. So? If you looked hard enough, you could probably find one test that shows a base mustang to be faster than a Corvette Z1. That doesn't mean that it's a better choice. OTOH, a pickup is always slower than a Z1 - yet it can be a better choice for some things. The point is that they're different computers with different purposes.
Considering that the next gen will be 6/12 cores, I wouldn't call that a plateau. And no, Apple isn't using the same chips that are available in PC's, at least not yet. We're not talking about stupid features, we're talking about potentially a major speed bump.
Meh. The systems I work with, work like they should and run for an average of 5 years before they are retired or repurposed. What's with the crazy upgrade cycle? Don't you have to upgrade the cards, the decks, the cameras, the I/o's etc etc? Not a huge gain for the expense. Personally that's not how I like to see money spent. I'd rather give out a bonus at the end of the year, than giving crew the latest and greatest just because. It's a little like buying your wife a bowling ball. Personally. if it does what it's supposed to and does it without fail then why replace it? For a speed bump? Honestly I've never upgraded a machine less than 3 years old and said "oh my god I wish I had upgraded sooner!. This machine just saved me hours of work".
I'm not a fan of Blu-Ray, but it does offer really good picture quality (1080p not 720p), and I don't think Apple supporting it will somehow make a difference if its days are in fact numbered. I do think that it will likely be the last of the widespread optical formats used for mass content distribution. If broadband adoption really picks up in North America, it could be the tipping point needed for cloud-based content distribution to take over. Cable companies have already been pushing video-on-demand systems. I'm sure Apple wants in.
I don't understand why Apple doesn't do a basic hardware refresh every 6 months for their desktops, they wouldn't have to redesign the asphetics at all.
Because it's not generally needed. Remember that Apple sells to more than the folks that work at Pixar etc.
The current generation of Mac Pro's are now a joke and Apple should be ashamed to still be trying to sell them, even the iMacs are really starting to show their age (internally I mean).
Not really. The imacs aren't even a year old. And until just recently there have been nothing of great note to improve the Mac Pro with. Now we are seeing the release of new processors, bigger hard drives, better graphics, and even things like USB 3.0 are reaching 'ready for prime time'. So now there's something with what to improve the machines. And we could see updated pro apps at the same time.
Oh and someone should really tell Hardmac that Apple's "Back to School" sales start in May. Getting that detail wrong, repeatedly, really dings their credibility
apple needs to finally support blu-Ray.
No they don't. Not because a handful of folks are screaming its a huge issue.
They don't block the use of an external drive for data storage or movie burning. They don't block the use of 3rd party software for set up of the disks. They include support in their pro apps for making videos of the right quality.
So just because you can't put a blu-ray in your machine and play it doesn't mean they don't support them. Heck you can't really appreciate a blu ray even on the 27 inch. they were made for twice that. So very few folks will bother.
What's your purpose in being here if you can't even get your basic facts right? The Xeon Mac pro has always had a 4 core base configuration.
You really should check your facts before calling people wrong.
Previous generation - base model is eight core, four core version was a BTO downgrade.
http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/08/...os-and-xserve/
As for the iMac i7 being faster at some things, that's undoubtedly true. So?
So if a user is going to pay a "high end" price they better get high end performance. Or at least performance that beats machines that are half the price. And no, it's not just some obscure funky test, there are plenty of real world mainstream uses where the MP is slower.
We're talking about price and performance, and the quad MP fails that in a big way.
Meh. The systems I work with, work like they should and run for an average of 5 years before they are retired or repurposed. What's with the crazy upgrade cycle? Don't you have to upgrade the cards, the decks, the cameras, the I/o's etc etc? Not a huge gain for the expense. Personally that's not how I like to see money spent. I'd rather give out a bonus at the end of the year, than giving crew the latest and greatest just because. It's a little like buying your wife a bowling ball. Personally. if it does what it's supposed to and does it without fail then why replace it? For a speed bump? Honestly I've never upgraded a machine less than 3 years old and said "oh my god I wish I had upgraded sooner!. This machine just saved me hours of work".
I never said anything about a crazy upgrade cycle, and see no connection between my post and your reply.
I'm talking about people who are in the market for a new machine because they ARE at the end of a reasonable upgrade cycle. Those people are better off waiting and getting a 6 or 12 core machine in a month or two instead of 4/8 that are shipping today. Plus hopefully more ram slots and other improvements, as well as the possibility of a lower price. AND even if you don't need that much power, it STILL makes sense to wait because once the new machines are announced, they put the previous generation on sale.
by the end of the summer?? in time for its back to school sale?? how many students need a mac pro? how many students can afford a mac pro? no blu-ray??
Millions of students, actually. When your average tuition and fees, plus room and board is surpassing 20k/yr then yeah, that drop into your education fund is not massive.
Hell, we students were paying > $3k for an IBM PC 386 when it came out in 1988.
Seriously, don't give me a sob story about poor college students when they drive around in luxury cars, trucks or motorcycles, or dress down in fashion current torn jeans that are $500 a pair.
Apple isn't targeting the Mac Pro for back to school. It's targeting it at a time that coincides with both Back to School and the first Quarter of Business near Labor Day.
I would like to see eSATA added as a port on the iMac because I would rather not buy a MacPro to replace the G5 tower.
Now that is an idea I can support. Even if it's just a custom build option to replace one of your usb ports with esata on a 27 inch (which is what most folks will likely get if they want to 'pro' an imac) or swap the SD slot for a blank PCI and use an esata card.
in fact I wish they had left the high end 15 inch laptops as blank PCI. My company has a couple of 15 inch laptops (17 is too cumbersome) that we'd like to replace. But we need that esata option.
I assume you are using an iPad - what apps are you using?
I'm not an IT expert by any means and we have all macs in the studio, so I had been using remote tap on my phone before my ipad, still do. Something is going on with remote tap though; It's not on the store and the devs say an iphone OS 4 issue needs to be resolved. Too bad it was a good program. Hope they come back with ipad support. Anyway, I've started using jump desktop on my ipad. The interface isn't as smooth or as much fun, but it has worked well.
Y
I never said anything about a crazy upgrade cycle, and see no connection between my post and your reply.
I'm talking about people who are in the market for a new machine because they ARE at the end of a reasonable upgrade cycle. Those people are better off waiting and getting a 6 or 12 core machine in a month or two instead of 4/8 that are shipping today. Plus hopefully more ram slots and other improvements, as well as the possibility of a lower price. AND even if you don't need that much power, it STILL makes sense to wait because once the new machines are announced, they put the previous generation on sale.
Fair enough, but this has always been a problem. We aren't psychics after all. My point is what are you replacing? If it's 3-5 years old, what you buy today will kill the old machine. What might be available the very next day will only be a slight improvement over what you purchased yesterday.
I got the "crazy upgrade cycle" from the assumption that the only reason you'd be upset if you bought a 4 core machine today and it was replaced by a 6 core machine tomorrow would be if you weren't replacing a single core machine. Otherwise you'd say to yourself "Meh, this machine is still allot better than my old system and wither will still last me 3-5 years. I don't know. That's how I look at it. Otherwise my head would explode every time I needed to replace hardware. Apple's development cycle has always been this way. It's not perfectionist, bleeding edge, crazy newest friendly at all. You will go mad thinking about it.
Hardly a troll. I have been using Apple computers since my II GS in 1989... I just don't kiss Apple's ass over everything they release (or about to release).
According to MacRumor's buyer's guide, the current MacPro is over 500 days old without an update. That is pathetic. Plain and simple.
Yes. But that's hardly what you wrote. You made a statement that suggested that the update, whatever it will be, is underpowered and overpriced.
Or did you forget what you wrote already?
November - Intel releases their next generation chipset and desktop processors
Sorry Steve, but Intel publishes these things months, if not years, in advance. Anyone who cares to know can find out when new stuff is coming. For Apple to drag its feet and then pop out an update just before Intel makes a big jump forward tells me that, contrary to what you said on stage today, you don't love your Mac users.
I don't really *need* a new Mac so I'm going to adopt Apple's strategy of milking as much time out of old hardware as possible. If Apple ever figures out how to release computers more than 2 months before they're superseded be sure to get in touch with me. In the meantime I'm spending my new iMac money on golf clubs and lessons. See you on the links!
No they don't. Not because a handful of folks are screaming its a huge issue.
They don't block the use of an external drive for data storage or movie burning. They don't block the use of 3rd party software for set up of the disks. They include support in their pro apps for making videos of the right quality.
So just because you can't put a blu-ray in your machine and play it doesn't mean they don't support them. Heck you can't really appreciate a blu ray even on the 27 inch. they were made for twice that. So very few folks will bother.
"handful of folks", really, thats cute! I guess that's why so many people always complains about it. Watching movies on a notebook may seem trivial to some but as someone in the military, it's important to me. Also Blu-rays don't need to be watched in full resolution to enjoy. Blu-ray movies would fill the monitor, a dvd doesn't even fill half. Thats only looking at it from a resolution perspective yet alone... Point is, you're moronic if you think there isn't a difference!
Hardly a troll. I have been using Apple computers since my II GS in 1989... I just don't kiss Apple's ass over everything they release (or about to release).
According to MacRumor's buyer's guide, the current MacPro is over 500 days old without an update. That is pathetic. Plain and simple.
Complaining that an unreleased, unspecified update is "underpowered and overpriced" makes you a troll, and not very smart, no matter how long you have supposedly used a Mac.
And OWC's drives are reliable. Something Lacie has never been able to claim.
I really agree! I've had 2 La Cie drives fail within the warranty period and never had a OWC drive fail after buying 4 La Cie enclosures and at least 10 OWC drives.
I can live with whatever ports are offered. Just give us a choice in screens.