One, premium pricing is fine, if it accompanies premium, bleeding edge hardware. Whether Apple offers that with their Mac Pro, I will leave to each reader's opinion. Those who have read my posts already know my stance. After 12 years or so I'm leaving the Mac for my line of work (3D graphics).
Two, gigantic #$%ing clue for Apple, the advantages of using a Xeon only exist for multi-CPU macs. You can use more than one Xeon per motherboard. There is no point, whatsoever, in using a single-CPU Xeon setup. A Core i7 will smoke the Mac Pro single CPU in every task, and cost, literally, a fraction of the Mac Pro costs. When you can do work many many times faster, for half the cost, on another platform, with less buggy tools, it's time to make the switch.
Let's all think about those two points.
You seem to forget that at the point Apple released this version of the Mac Pro, it was the first to have these Xeon chips, period. It was more expensive to build an equivalent workstation from Dell for quite awhile. A 2.66GHz Quad non-Xeon would actually have been about the same results as the single cpu Mac Pro. A current top end 980X? Clearly that will be a better machine. That's not hard to figure.
Can the MP be beaten on value currently, as long as OS isn't an issue? Certainly. It did represent the current top end Intel server processors when it was first released tho and was quite reasonable. The i7 iMac can beat out the single cpu MP in many tests, plus you get an awesome screen in the bargain for less money, but you also get less expandability and don't use things like the ECC memory. A new MP will be released soon and I'm sure we'll all argue about its value proposition upon release as well.
At least here you recognize the type of hardware Apple is using. There is little justification for rapid updates that many seem to think are in order for the Mac Pro.
But then you loose it with disk drives. Considering Mac Pros volume sales wise and it's target market micro updates to try to tweak sales would do nothing. The thing here is that professionals will likely replace whatever Apple installs anyways. Those that don't don't need the tweaks anyway.
What do you expect Apple to do? They can't run over to Intel and demand something they don't have to sell. The fact of the matter is that the world is going to SmP hardware and core speeds have dropped. At least in the short term though we now have chips capable of clearing the 3GHz cieling. The fact is many don't care about GHz anymore because multithreading apps is the way to go.
The Mac Pro is not cheap but it is inexpensive for what you get. I'm not sure why people are so dense in this regard. The Mac Pro isn't even trying to be a desktop tower in the mold if a generic Dell box. It is rather a high performance workstation computer, with hardware and construction to support professional use. It is not a computer for a manager nor a secratary. That is what iMacs are for.
As to performance the Pro is Apples high performance machine. You can certainly find bench marks that will show an iMac to be faster in some regards but that should not be surprise at all. Doing what it is designed to do though it is a hard machine to beat in the Mac lineup. It is all about leveraging all those cores in professional apps.
Dave
Apple's 'high performance' machine is nothing of the kind. It's embarrassed in specs by machines costing half as much.
A p*ss poor gpu in a 'workstation' (what does that mean?) It was out of date (a rebadged Nvidia card at introduction) at launch.
'Dense'? Well, the entry Mac 'pro' weighting in at about 2k (sterling) is certainly not dense in spec, is it? Maybe 'dense' applies to people who only see one side of the argument or allow their allegiance (blind?) to warp their common sense.
What do 'we' get?
4 gigs of ram. Meh.
500 gig HD? Meh.
Do they still make that GPU?!??! MEH!
a 2.66 quad core? Meehehehhheheheheh.
I'll score it a couple of points for the now long in tooth design and the OS it runs on.
Loses one of those points for an inadequate display range.
Really, is that the best Apple can do in 14 months?
*Shrugs. It's telling that I'm more excited about the iPhone 4... I can't remember the last time I got excited about the 'pro'. Right after I realised the Intel move wasn't about giving us choice at all...or better value. No. As UK buyers we're had to put up with steep successive price rises, limited choice of cpu and p*ss gpus with stingy ram.
Apple are selling more than ever. Guess Apple must be right in everything they do, right?
Apple's 'high performance' machine is nothing of the kind. It's embarrassed in specs by machines costing half as much.
A p*ss poor gpu in a 'workstation' (what does that mean?) It was out of date (a rebadged Nvidia card at introduction) at launch.
'Dense'? Well, the entry Mac 'pro' weighting in at about 2k (sterling) is certainly not dense in spec, is it? Maybe 'dense' applies to people who only see one side of the argument or allow their allegiance (blind?) to warp their common sense.
What do 'we' get?
4 gigs of ram. Meh.
500 gig HD? Meh.
Do they still make that GPU?!??! MEH!
a 2.66 quad core? Meehehehhheheheheh.
I'll score it a couple of points for the now long in tooth design and the OS it runs on.
Loses one of those points for an inadequate display range.
Really, is that the best Apple can do in 14 months?
*Shrugs. It's telling that I'm more excited about the iPhone 4... I can't remember the last time I got excited about the 'pro'. Right after I realised the Intel move wasn't about giving us choice at all...or better value. No. As UK buyers we're had to put up with steep successive price rises, limited choice of cpu and p*ss gpus with stingy ram.
Apple are selling more than ever. Guess Apple must be right in everything they do, right?
Lemon Bon Bon.
I agree with you on 99%, however...
I want to pick my drives myself and my ram myself, so the less of both I get from apple in buying a new workstation the better!
Check Amazon for external HDs. I currently have two LaCie Quadra HDs (Firewire 400, 800, USB 2.0 and eSATA) that I am very happy with. Also, I'm using a G-Drive Mini as a portable HD (Firewire 400, 800 and USB 2.0) that I love.
CalDigit is also a good brand. I have some CalDigit VRs and VR Minis and they work fantastically. But I hear that CalDigit is going to be shipping their new AV Drive this week. I know that it's supposed to have USB 3.0 and FireWire. I think there are also adapter cards for laptop and mac for those that dont have usb 3.0
Comments
Two things to throw in the fray:
One, premium pricing is fine, if it accompanies premium, bleeding edge hardware. Whether Apple offers that with their Mac Pro, I will leave to each reader's opinion. Those who have read my posts already know my stance. After 12 years or so I'm leaving the Mac for my line of work (3D graphics).
Two, gigantic #$%ing clue for Apple, the advantages of using a Xeon only exist for multi-CPU macs. You can use more than one Xeon per motherboard. There is no point, whatsoever, in using a single-CPU Xeon setup. A Core i7 will smoke the Mac Pro single CPU in every task, and cost, literally, a fraction of the Mac Pro costs. When you can do work many many times faster, for half the cost, on another platform, with less buggy tools, it's time to make the switch.
Let's all think about those two points.
You seem to forget that at the point Apple released this version of the Mac Pro, it was the first to have these Xeon chips, period. It was more expensive to build an equivalent workstation from Dell for quite awhile. A 2.66GHz Quad non-Xeon would actually have been about the same results as the single cpu Mac Pro. A current top end 980X? Clearly that will be a better machine. That's not hard to figure.
Can the MP be beaten on value currently, as long as OS isn't an issue? Certainly. It did represent the current top end Intel server processors when it was first released tho and was quite reasonable. The i7 iMac can beat out the single cpu MP in many tests, plus you get an awesome screen in the bargain for less money, but you also get less expandability and don't use things like the ECC memory. A new MP will be released soon and I'm sure we'll all argue about its value proposition upon release as well.
USB isn't *just* for HDDs. USB is a common interface for a lot of peripherals.
A USB 3 card reader will be the first USB 3 device I get personally.
YMMV
I guess for the 600x professional compact flash cards. There are fast eSATA based card readers. http://www.addonics.com/products/fla...r/aepddesu.asp for one example.
another is this:
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/qio.html
USB isn't *just* for HDDs. USB is a common interface for a lot of peripherals.
A USB 3 card reader will be the first USB 3 device I get personally.
YMMV
My first USB 3 peripheral was a SATA drive dock. Very, very useful tool for anyone who deals with lots of drives.
I'm not sure how useful a card reader will be though, given how slow the flash used for such cards is.
My first USB 3 peripheral was a SATA drive dock. Very, very useful tool for anyone who deals with lots of drives.
I'm not sure how useful a card reader will be though, given how slow the flash used for such cards is.
For those lacking USB 3.0, like Macs, but with FireWire 800 or eSATA, check out this:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer...gy/FWU2ES2HDK/
USB3
FireWire 3200
How I love thee FireWire, let me count the ways....
At least here you recognize the type of hardware Apple is using. There is little justification for rapid updates that many seem to think are in order for the Mac Pro.
But then you loose it with disk drives. Considering Mac Pros volume sales wise and it's target market micro updates to try to tweak sales would do nothing. The thing here is that professionals will likely replace whatever Apple installs anyways. Those that don't don't need the tweaks anyway.
What do you expect Apple to do? They can't run over to Intel and demand something they don't have to sell. The fact of the matter is that the world is going to SmP hardware and core speeds have dropped. At least in the short term though we now have chips capable of clearing the 3GHz cieling. The fact is many don't care about GHz anymore because multithreading apps is the way to go.
The Mac Pro is not cheap but it is inexpensive for what you get. I'm not sure why people are so dense in this regard. The Mac Pro isn't even trying to be a desktop tower in the mold if a generic Dell box. It is rather a high performance workstation computer, with hardware and construction to support professional use. It is not a computer for a manager nor a secratary. That is what iMacs are for.
As to performance the Pro is Apples high performance machine. You can certainly find bench marks that will show an iMac to be faster in some regards but that should not be surprise at all. Doing what it is designed to do though it is a hard machine to beat in the Mac lineup. It is all about leveraging all those cores in professional apps.
Dave
Apple's 'high performance' machine is nothing of the kind. It's embarrassed in specs by machines costing half as much.
A p*ss poor gpu in a 'workstation' (what does that mean?) It was out of date (a rebadged Nvidia card at introduction) at launch.
'Dense'? Well, the entry Mac 'pro' weighting in at about 2k (sterling) is certainly not dense in spec, is it? Maybe 'dense' applies to people who only see one side of the argument or allow their allegiance (blind?) to warp their common sense.
What do 'we' get?
4 gigs of ram. Meh.
500 gig HD? Meh.
Do they still make that GPU?!??! MEH!
a 2.66 quad core? Meehehehhheheheheh.
I'll score it a couple of points for the now long in tooth design and the OS it runs on.
Loses one of those points for an inadequate display range.
Really, is that the best Apple can do in 14 months?
*Shrugs. It's telling that I'm more excited about the iPhone 4... I can't remember the last time I got excited about the 'pro'. Right after I realised the Intel move wasn't about giving us choice at all...or better value. No. As UK buyers we're had to put up with steep successive price rises, limited choice of cpu and p*ss gpus with stingy ram.
Apple are selling more than ever. Guess Apple must be right in everything they do, right?
Lemon Bon Bon.
Apple's 'high performance' machine is nothing of the kind. It's embarrassed in specs by machines costing half as much.
A p*ss poor gpu in a 'workstation' (what does that mean?) It was out of date (a rebadged Nvidia card at introduction) at launch.
'Dense'? Well, the entry Mac 'pro' weighting in at about 2k (sterling) is certainly not dense in spec, is it? Maybe 'dense' applies to people who only see one side of the argument or allow their allegiance (blind?) to warp their common sense.
What do 'we' get?
4 gigs of ram. Meh.
500 gig HD? Meh.
Do they still make that GPU?!??! MEH!
a 2.66 quad core? Meehehehhheheheheh.
I'll score it a couple of points for the now long in tooth design and the OS it runs on.
Loses one of those points for an inadequate display range.
Really, is that the best Apple can do in 14 months?
*Shrugs. It's telling that I'm more excited about the iPhone 4... I can't remember the last time I got excited about the 'pro'. Right after I realised the Intel move wasn't about giving us choice at all...or better value. No. As UK buyers we're had to put up with steep successive price rises, limited choice of cpu and p*ss gpus with stingy ram.
Apple are selling more than ever. Guess Apple must be right in everything they do, right?
Lemon Bon Bon.
I agree with you on 99%, however...
I want to pick my drives myself and my ram myself, so the less of both I get from apple in buying a new workstation the better!
Check Amazon for external HDs. I currently have two LaCie Quadra HDs (Firewire 400, 800, USB 2.0 and eSATA) that I am very happy with. Also, I'm using a G-Drive Mini as a portable HD (Firewire 400, 800 and USB 2.0) that I love.
CalDigit is also a good brand. I have some CalDigit VRs and VR Minis and they work fantastically. But I hear that CalDigit is going to be shipping their new AV Drive this week. I know that it's supposed to have USB 3.0 and FireWire. I think there are also adapter cards for laptop and mac for those that dont have usb 3.0
www.caldigit.com