Apple says just 0.55% of iPhone owners have reported antenna problems

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  • Reply 61 of 107
    bartbuzzbartbuzz Posts: 131member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vrkiran View Post


    Did not admit to the problem, but this is the most I expected!



    I guess you watched a different press conference than I did. Steve Jobs provided two data point with regards to (1) complaints to Apple Care (0.55%) and (2) dropped calls are less than 1 more per 100 calls over the 3GS. Not to mention that the return rate is less than 2%. He showed that other smartphones experience the same antenna weakness. He admitted that the iPhone antenna was not perfect. Apple is giving all iP4 users a free case. Apple is offering a total refund to everyone. What more do you want? You have no reason to complain now that you can return the iP4 and get out of your ATT contract. Apple is not obligated to be perfect just because you are disappointed. There are plenty of other smartphones in the market. Get one of them and move on.
  • Reply 62 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Scafe2 View Post


    You should not have to have a case on it to be able to use you phone,.. where on Apple's site does it advise potential customers that you need a case to be able to make the phone useable ,..?



    I was hoping for more from Apple today, I am a sad Fanboy and really hoped that Apple could put this issue to bed but from reading the press conference I don't feel that they did, i come away kind of disappointed. I love my iPhone 4 but it definitely has issues which hand on heart i was hoping Apple had some kind of fix up there sleeves,..!



    Its a long wait for iPhone 5 ,.. in some ways i wish i had not sold my 3GS as it performed better than my IP4



    Again as was said in the press conference all phones have their trade-offs, hell Motorola and Sony Ericsson were know for years for having crappy antennas but cool features. Thats why you have the option to return it if you don't like it.
  • Reply 63 of 107
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,754member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post


    I guess you watched a different press conference than I did. Steve Jobs provided two data point with regards to (1) complaints to Apple Care (0.55%) and (2) dropped calls are less than 1 more per 100 calls over the 3GS. Not to mention that the return rate is less than 2%. He showed that other smartphones experience the same antenna weakness. He admitted that the iPhone antenna was not perfect. Apple is giving all iP4 users a free case. Apple is offering a total refund to everyone. What more do you want? You have no reason to complain now that you can return the iP4 and get out of your ATT contract. Apple is not obligated to be perfect just because you are disappointed. There are plenty of other smartphones in the market. Get one of them and move on.



    1) Call in complaints are a bad metric. Most people wouldn't call. Especially those that would actually be looking for this problem. They would have read all the stories that we did that Apple support couldn't give any answers. Also, maybe they could have given the return rates of the 3GS in it first 3 weeks. Probably even lower than the 4. But they didn't.



    2) If the 3GS had about the average number of dropped calls on the AT&T network, then 1 additional dropped call per 100 is almost 100% more dropped calls. AT&T's rate of dropped calls in Dec 2009 was between 1.05 and 1.41 per 100 calls. If the 3GS was with those bounds, then the 4 is not doing well comparatively, if it is 1 additional dropped per 100 calls.



    3) return rate is even more useless. There are tonnes of reasons people won't have returned the phones yet, even if they have this problem.





    Apple is doing the right this here, IMO, with the free bumpers. That doesn't mean you shouldn't actually consider what was said and what it actually shows. Which isn't much.
  • Reply 64 of 107
    captain jcaptain j Posts: 313member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mplaisance View Post


    It's people like you who have blow this thing up!! You say you like it yet you don't like it. Make your damn mind up. You either love it or hate it!! I mean yea there MAY be some signal degration in a poor signal area and maybe a dropped call or so but how has this changed since the release of the iPhone 4. People have been since mobile phones first came out complaining about "dropped calls". And until some company can come along and sprinkle some fairy dust on our phones I don't see much changing as far as "never" getting dropped. And signal drop does not "always" mean you are going to get dropped. It's digital! Not analog! You either have 0's and 1's or not. Not to say signal strength will not effect data! But for me? This new iPhone is smoking on the data side. I have download and upload speeds I wish I could get at home. 3 to 4 Mb up and down!!! But back to you!! Please return your phone sir. I know many many people who would bs happy to taking it from your "death grip" hands because you know you not giving it up.

    PS let's give some credit too to Apple for thinking "outside the box" they tried something different. A different design and concept. Because as far as I am concerned I am tired of the same ol copy cat cheap plastic phones out there. Though my iPhone may not be "perfect" and sprinkled on pixy dust, it is unique. And BTW way no shit, I have yet(and I am sure I will) have dropped a call on my iPhone 4. That leaves much to be said in my case. Now proximity issue? There may be something there. My wife had noticed it on her iPhone 4. However hope a software issue will fix this and it is worth mentioning that maybe just maybe the proximity issue can be a factor in some of these dropped called cases since your cheek may hit the end call button and not so much the reception!!



    So in your world, people either have to totally like something or totally hate it. Got that. Most of us use a scale of things when rating products and other things in life.



    I use my iphone 4 in exactly the same places I used my 3G for two years, up until July 6th. I upgraded my 3G to iOS4 the day it came out. I hold my phones the same way. With the 3G I had never had the bars drop to 0. With the IP 4 it happens every time I touch it without the case.



    This is what we call empirical evidence of a problem. I enjoy my phone and am able to do so because I use a case. If there were no cases, I'd have to return it. I'm not complaining about my phone, but for Apple to claim the issue is the same for any smartphone is disingenuous and wrong. Apple's honesty, or lack thereof is troubling to me.
  • Reply 65 of 107
    mplaisancemplaisance Posts: 105member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post


    I guess you watched a different press conference than I did. Steve Jobs provided two data point with regards to (1) complaints to Apple Care (0.55%) and (2) dropped calls are less than 1 more per 100 calls over the 3GS. Not to mention that the return rate is less than 2%. He showed that other smartphones experience the same antenna weakness. He admitted that the iPhone antenna was not perfect. Apple is giving all iP4 users a free case. Apple is offering a total refund to everyone. What more do you want? You have no reason to complain now that you can return the iP4 and get out of your ATT contract. Apple is not obligated to be perfect just because you are disappointed. There are plenty of other smartphones in the market. Get one of them and move on.



    I just about have with whiners!! Move on if you don't like it!! There is android and others. Hell Droid X was just released. Please go get one and let us that truely enjoy our iP4 lay in bliss!!
  • Reply 66 of 107
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    how are they collecting the user complaints? if it is only users who have scheduled a genuis bar appointment specifically over "antenna" or "reception" problem - then I suspect the true number may be 10 times higher than what Apple is reporting.



    i would like to see the dropped cal stats for iPhone 2G.



    if a case solves the problem that is not too bad - since I wsa looking in to something like this:



    http://www.ivyskin.com/iphone-4-case...tion-case.html



    which isloates the conductivity while not hiding the phone in an ugly or ill fitting case
  • Reply 67 of 107
    mplaisancemplaisance Posts: 105member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Captain J View Post


    So in your world, people either have to totally like something or totally hate it. Got that. Most of us use a scale of things when rating products and other things in life.



    I use my iphone 4 in exactly the same places I used my 3G for two years, up until July 6th. I upgraded my 3G to iOS4 the day it came out. I hold my phones the same way. With the 3G I had never had the bars drop to 0. With the IP 4 it happens every time I touch it without the case.



    This is what we call empirical evidence of a problem. I enjoy my phone and am able to do so because I use a case. If there were no cases, I'd have to return it. I'm not complaining about my phone, but for Apple to claim the issue is the same for any smartphone is disingenuous and wrong. Apple's honesty, or lack thereof is troubling to me.



    No you right it's not a love or hate? Sorry for my misrepresentation. But I guess now you calling apple as lying! They gave you the stats, the facts, the numbers, and based off that these are small number of composite thus far! You sir are obviously in the minority camp. Sorry! Maybe you really do need to exchange your phone (maybe it's faulty). But hats off to apple for addressing their customers. I don't think in my recent memory have I seen another company so concerned about customer approval even though in there honest opinion they feel it's the best phone they released "yet"!! Sure there is always room for improvement. And hopefully Apple will address those in coming versions. Look in just 3 years how phones have evolved! Partionally that's to the iPhone. And to your case: you noticed a signal drop correct? But can you please tell me honestly if you have been dropped and how often are you dropped. Forget signal. Your dropped calls? I was honest thus far I have yet to get dropped and I talk and move around a lot. Again I am sure I will get dropped eventually and I wonder when I do if it would be on my end or the person I am talking to end!
  • Reply 68 of 107
    bartbuzzbartbuzz Posts: 131member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    1) Call in complaints are a bad metric. Most people wouldn't call. Especially those that would actually be looking for this problem. They would have read all the stories that we did that Apple support couldn't give any answers.



    2) If the 3GS had about the average number of dropped calls on the AT&T network, then 1 additional dropped call per 100 is almost 100% more dropped calls. AT&T's rate of dropped calls in Dec 2009 was between 1.05 and 1.41 per 100 calls. If the 3GS was with those bounds, then the 4 is not doing well comparatively, if it is 1 additional dropped per 100 calls.



    3) return rate is even more useless. There are tonnes of reasons people won't have returned the phones yet, even if they have this problem.





    Apple is doing the right this here , IMO with the free bumpers. That doesn't mean you shouldn't actually consider what was said and what it actually shows. Which isn't much.



    Your logic just doesn't make sense to me. IMO customer complaints work. iPhone sales have not been affected. But if you feel you are right, then just return your phone and move on. If Apple has screwed up, they will pay for it in the market place. BTW, 100% of a small number is still small. It's all relative. ATT is not known for their reception excellence...at least not with the iPhone. Yet the iPhone users haven't abandoned ATT. Let's see if there's still an iPhone flap in two months.
  • Reply 69 of 107
    drk_onedrk_one Posts: 23member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NCMacUser View Post


    If you feel there is an issue, call applecare, get the issue logged so they can get the proper data, if you can't be bothered then return the phone or give it a rest already..



    Poor analogy, and clearly you completely missed the point. Jobs used this "0.55%" statistic as a means of defending his "no big deal" theory.



    Everyone calling to report a power outtage after a tornado rips through their neighborhood isn't going to get the power turned on any sooner. In this instance, fewer 'official' complaints doesn't mean that there isn't a problem.



    Not "wanting to be bothered" placing a call to AppleCare and returning my phone are 2 separate things. I happen to love my phone.



    Perhaps it's you who should give it a rest...
  • Reply 70 of 107
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,754member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post


    Your logic just doesn't make sense to me. IMO customer complaints work. iPhone sales have not been affected. But if you feel you are right, then just return your phone and move on. If Apple has screwed up, they will pay for it in the market place. BTW, 100% of a small number is still small. It's all relative. ATT is not known for their reception excellence...at least not with the iPhone. Yet the iPhone users haven't abandoned ATT. Let's see if there's still an iPhone flap in two months.



    If you were one that could see the problem on your phone, would you have called? I wouldn't have, given what I have read before hand. That is just one reason someone might not have called. So what does the number of calls tell us? Not much. I _might_ have brought it in for a replacement. Would that replacement have counted as a return?



    I am not saying they 'screwed up'. I am saying the number were present very selectively and selected for a reason. Other important number were omitted.
  • Reply 71 of 107
    rsmrsm Posts: 15member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Captain J View Post


    So far, the tone of the conference is that there is no problem and we're all idiots if we think there are. This will not do Apple's PR any good.



    Yes, if you cup and death squeeze a phone you'll get signal drop. On the iPhone 4 all you need to do is rest your finger on the spot, no grip, no cupping nothing.



    So just dont touch it there. Tough huh?
  • Reply 72 of 107
    rsmrsm Posts: 15member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Captain J View Post


    Own one, am posting from it and love it. With a case it's great. Without it's often useless. I always have a case anyway.



    "Without it it's useless" People lose all credibility when making such asinine comments. SO if your iP4 has no case the phone is rendered totally useless?



    Troll comment.
  • Reply 73 of 107
    captain jcaptain j Posts: 313member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mplaisance View Post


    No you right it's not a love or hate? Sorry for my misrepresentation. But I guess now you calling apple as lying! They gave you the stats, the facts, the numbers, and based off that these are small number of composite thus far! You sir are obviously in the minority camp. Sorry! Maybe you really do need to exchange your phone (maybe it's faulty). But hats off to apple for addressing their customers. I don't think in my recent memory have I seen another company so concerned about customer approval even though in there honest opinion they feel it's the best phone they released "yet"!! Sure there is always room for improvement. And hopefully Apple will address those in coming versions. Look in just 3 years how phones have evolved! Partionally that's to the iPhone. And to your case: you noticed a signal drop correct? But can you please tell me honestly if you have been dropped and how often are you dropped. Forget signal. Your dropped calls? I was honest thus far I have yet to get dropped and I talk and move around a lot. Again I am sure I will get dropped eventually and I wonder when I do if it would be on my end or the person I am talking to end!



    Tell me honestly that you think there would be no difference in attenuation in antennas that actually touch your hand and those that are covered and do not.



    Apple's giving away of free cases is tantamount to an admission that this is correct. They should have just said so.



    In my case, I noticed a complete loss of signal. I was not calling, but using the internet. The signal dropped to zero and the connection was lost. This was in multiple places and times. I do not think my phone is faulty, I just think that it's a natural result of bridging two antennas.
  • Reply 74 of 107
    captain jcaptain j Posts: 313member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rsm View Post


    "Without it it's useless" People lose all credibility when making such asinine comments. SO if your iP4 has no case the phone is rendered totally useless?



    Troll comment.



    As a connective device, yes. Unless I hold it like a wine glass at a cocktail party, I bridge the gap. It's how I've always held my phone.



    Of course it's still great for games, pictures, and other apps.
  • Reply 75 of 107
    mplaisancemplaisance Posts: 105member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Captain J View Post


    Tell me honestly that you think there would be no difference in attenuation in antennas that actually touch your hand and those that are covered and do not.



    Apple's giving away of free cases is tantamount to an admission that this is correct. They should have just said so.



    In my case, I noticed a complete loss of signal. I was not calling, but using the internet. The signal dropped to zero and the connection was lost. This was in multiple places and times. I do not think my phone is faulty, I just think that it's a natural result of bridging two antennas.



    I can't for obvious reasons because I am by no means a radio engineer. Granted I can type away all the hog wash I read on the Internet about the whole "bridge" or "shorting" of the antennas. BTW I do work on electric communications circuits and yes I do understand shorts, grounds, hign resistance opens and all but I take no credit in understanding the issues of a radio antenna and it's technologht. That's a whole different beast. And you seem like an intelligent person and I am sure you think you have it figured out but unless I missed you did not claim to be a radio engineer. Remember don't believe everything you read! I sure as hell don't. Was this something that Apple knew about? I doubt. Why? Because if Apple thought for one second that this "outside" antenna would have a "true" negative effect, I really doubt Apple would have praised it at the keynote as a great new feature. Instead they would have just not mentioned anything about the antenna. But by doing so they drew attention to it. So came out the critics. Look you like your iPhone right? It's beautiful, it's thin, it's crisp, it's a phone , email client , web browser, picture and hi def video(BTW I don't use my Kodak video anymore) etc (you get the point) in one small device that fits in your pocket and you complain about one little spot that may or may not depending on who you ask may drop your signal to a point that makes the phone unuseful. With all that I say just don't touch that. But let me say, I touch the "sweet spot" all the time waiting for my dropped call. None to date.
  • Reply 76 of 107
    icyfogicyfog Posts: 338member
    Given the media hoopla I bet it would've been more than that.

    The hard data Jobs mentioned probably could've been obtained by journalists, had they the skill. Yet media types any more are all about regurgitating the garbage.
  • Reply 77 of 107
    mplaisancemplaisance Posts: 105member
    As a long Apple fan, Apple has seen darker days. This is small. I see this as Apple's growing pains. Yes Apple is big, Apple is cool again now, Apple is all over the news. So it's no suprise that "everything" Apple goes under the microscope. And Apple being the company it is, it is no surprise. Not saying Apple always invents, but they surely do reinvent and remarket a great idea. But as Apple is great at reinventing they are also great inventors as well and sometimes go against the grain! Apple is a true "form and function" company. Not many companies can claim that. And I am sure sometimes form and function do not meet in the middle. Yet we as consumers do love the look of everything we own (come on you know you do!) and tend in many ways favor the look of the things we own. Apple has always IMO challenged the two to play together and while mostly the two can play in harmony they do at times sometimes clash. IMO I too believe that this is overhyped by the media. Please you can't tell me that there are many who would love to see the iPhone fail!! That is a fact!! But as a long Apple user, we will come through. Apple has always and even today value there customers and maybe are one of the few companies who do because I don't think Apple has forgotten that it was the loyal customers who brought them though the dark days. So I end this in that it is an insult to me, long Mac user, to see or hear people on here talk such negativity like Apple did this willingly! I imagine many on here may think that Apple is a new company of some sort. Apple has been around for over 30 years even before Microsoft and it has been a fun ride. Live long Apple! Some of us do understand the Company!!
  • Reply 78 of 107
    bartbuzzbartbuzz Posts: 131member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    If you were one that could see the problem on your phone, would you have called? I wouldn't have, given what I have read before hand. That is just one reason someone might not have called. So what does the number of calls tell us? Not much. I _might_ have brought it in for a replacement. Would that replacement have counted as a return?



    I am not saying they 'screwed up'. I am saying the number were present very selectively and selected for a reason. Other important number were omitted.



    Well, I'm a simple consumer. If the product doesn't work as promised, I won't buy that brand again. So if my iPhone worked as you describe and I can get a refund, back it goes. And I'll try another brand. I've owned a lot of things that didn't work as promised. But only one of them.
  • Reply 79 of 107
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,390member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by obs1970 View Post


    Dell customer support=Free 80 min trip round the world [call centers that is!]



    Just like Apple... What is your point?
  • Reply 80 of 107
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,390member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SendMe View Post


    If you grip them in a certain way they lose signal strength dramatically, especially in a low signal strength area.



    The magic word here is certain. In examples of other phones that people throw around they, aren't holding them "normally". I know with a number of different phones I have tried this on, I had to enclose them with both hands tightly to replicate the issue.
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