Apple 'says' all manner of things... One learns to discern what's most likely rubbish - Like This!
I've been saying for months now that in many cases complaining to AT&T about local coverage will do you no good. There are many local issues to deal with from anti tower regulations to corrupt officials to excessive concern for historical concerns to government failings.
The reality is in places like San Fransico you really need to go after your local elected officials to fix the problem. In some cases you will have to elect Republicans or other progressives. Unfortunately AT&T has to stay with in the bounds of what is legal and as such you suffer if your local government is confused, regressive or corrupt.
The reality is the engineers at the carriers can figure pretty easily where the next tower needs to go. They know where they need to go before they even weak approval. It isn't like they throw a box of tooth picks on a map and say here is where the towers need to go. When you live in an area where the towers are approved fast and go up fast you get good service, there is nothing difficult to understand here.
In contrast if you live someplace where a dumb bitch with a little influence with the local government can go about soecifing tower locations then you get bad coverage. Contest to popular belief in some circles getting elected doesn't give you the power to re write the laws of physics.
Yep... A town where I once lived was very anti tower and for most of the 90s we went without any coverage at all.... Then the cell providers made deals with many of the large churches in town to ingeniously locate antennas inside the large/tall steeples... Then the town once again stepped in and put the kibosh on the deals... Why? The town was going to take away the churches tax exempt status since profits on the agreements weren't looked at too favorably by the town leadership.
So... Another few years went by and we finally got a tower on the side of our local highway that looks exactly like that silly tree tower linked to above. The picture doesn't do it justice since 3 qtrs of the 'tree' is just brown steel and then near the very to are these silly tree branches. It looks so silly.
So just a heads up that SF isn't the only tower troublemakers.. They have at least one sister city back east...
It's the classic locational dilemma. Everybody wants things like cell towers, but nobody wants them right where they live. I have rarely heard anyone admit that they are no different than anyone else in this respect, but when it comes down to it, this is a behavior that transcends politics, socioeconomics, and ideologies.
Maybe if you (and your ilk) would removed those Apple-tinted goggles every once in a while you'd better see that no company is infallible... no matter how much you claim otherwise.
Your agenda doesn't actually fit this story. Did you watch the presentation video? Jobs clearly says that Apple and their products aren't perfect. I don't remember any PR from any company saying that before. Do you?
Maybe if you don't come here with an axe to grind, you might not get flak for grinding your axe at every opportunity that you see. I realize that sometimes people come across as insufferable fanboys, but then, that doesn't justify coming across as an insufferable troll.
So... Another few years went by and we finally got a tower on the side of our local highway that looks exactly like that silly tree tower linked to above. The picture doesn't do it justice since 3 qtrs of the 'tree' is just brown steel and then near the very to are these silly tree branches. It looks so silly.
I see these by the freeway all the time. Who are they trying to fool really.... Does it make people happier if they see an antenna pretending to be a tree versus just an antenna.
This reminds me of the (very true) story of a conversation we had with a beach bar owner, on Orient Beach in St Martin. He said it took him over 3 years to get a license there on the French side to open his bar. On the Dutch side, it took him 2 days.
Reception here is so bad. AT&T has gone to court with the some of the homeowners association here, and still could not get one extra cell tower approval. Then it was put on the city ballot during the election, and it still failed to pass.
Some neighborhoods in California are impossible to get even a single cell tower installed, even on the freeway. Sometimes you wonder wether these local activists understand that neighborhoods belong to everyone. And just a few a mile in next city, cellphone reception is at optimum because there are several cell towers.
So the situation in San Francisco is not too bad compared to South Orange County, Ca.
I see these by the freeway all the time. Who are they trying to fool really.... Does it make people happier if they see an antenna pretending to be a tree versus just an antenna.
I think you have a point there, a case can be made for actually doing a decent job of it.
One thing I want to ask is, how many useful man-made structures have to be built to look like something they are not? It's not a condition imposed on anything else that I can remember.
Maybe they already do this but I think a great place to put a cell tower would be in cemeteries. I remember being near SF and I went down a road that must have had at least 20 cemeteries on it all in a row. It would be the perfect place for a cell tower disguised as a tree. It works out great for the cemetery because the would get a continuous revenue stream and there is nobody living around to complain about them being unsightly.
Actually, I am quite certain SJs meant palm tree, not banana tree. I have seen many palm tree, and some evergreen tree cell towers, but a banana tree just ti snot tall enough. Bananas grow in plants that look more like bushes than trees....
(try googling palm vs banana cell tower = many vs no hits...)
I live in Texas and have for most of my life. How shall I put this? Uh, Texas and all of it's cities are ugly. Very, very few people here have any real appreciation or knowledge of design - whether it is phones or city planning. They like to pretend they care about their past, but they don't. Texas treats their cities and neighborhoods just like Los Angeles - they tear them down when they get old thus destroying any desirable character. So a cell tower is a non-issue. The community of Wimberly near Austin tried to stop a cell tower from going up and they failed miserably.
I admire communities that try to keep the charm, beauty and livable attributes of their surroundings intact. The only way to achieve this is through regulation. It might anger the pro development, big business types who don't care about anything but the size of their . . . um developments, but you know, who cares? I'd rather live in a nice place than have perfect cell reception. Of course I live in Texas, but I notice Mr. Jobs does not. He might like Texas because of it's lax regulations, but he would never live here.
I live in Texas and have for most of my life. How shall I put this? Uh, Texas and all of it's cities are ugly. Very, very few people here have any real appreciation or knowledge of design - whether it is phones or city planning. They like to pretend they care about their past, but they don't. Texas treats their cities and neighborhoods just like Los Angeles - they tear them down when they get old thus destroying any desirable character. So a cell tower is a non-issue. The community of Wimberly near Austin tried to stop a cell tower from going up and they failed miserably.
I admire communities that try to keep the charm, beauty and livable attributes of their surroundings intact. The only way to achieve this is through regulation. It might anger the pro development, big business types who don't care about anything but the size of their . . . um developments, but you know, who cares? I'd rather live in a nice place than have perfect cell reception. Of course I live in Texas, but I notice Mr. Jobs does not. He might like Texas because of it's lax regulations, but he would never live here.
A thoughtful and well-put counter point
(But I still think 3 years is a bit much. More ingenious solutions are needed, if that costs me as a wireless subscriber, so be it)
I live in Texas and have for most of my life. How shall I put this? Uh, Texas and all of it's cities are ugly. Very, very few people here have any real appreciation or knowledge of design - whether it is phones or city planning. They like to pretend they care about their past, but they don't. Texas treats their cities and neighborhoods just like Los Angeles - they tear them down when they get old thus destroying any desirable character. So a cell tower is a non-issue. The community of Wimberly near Austin tried to stop a cell tower from going up and they failed miserably.
I admire communities that try to keep the charm, beauty and livable attributes of their surroundings intact. The only way to achieve this is through regulation. It might anger the pro development, big business types who don't care about anything but the size of their . . . um developments, but you know, who cares? I'd rather live in a nice place than have perfect cell reception. Of course I live in Texas, but I notice Mr. Jobs does not. He might like Texas because of it's lax regulations, but he would never live here.
So, to fight one extreme, you have to go to another extreme? As in, there's no middle ground? There's proper regulation, and then there's excessive regulation.
I think some SF folks are concerned with looks, but then there are also those involved in fearmongering about RF radiation, blocking cell towers might actually make the situation worse as the phone radio has to increase its power for the signal to reach the tower.
Apple 'says' all manner of things... One learns to discern what's most likely rubbish - Like This!
This is absolutely true so STFU since you have no clue - just spoke with my daughter who lives right in the city in SF and her neighbors just banded together and successfully stopped the building of a cell tower in her neighborhood which has a big park and gets quite busy on the weekends. The city should confiscate their cell phones for being such jerks.
people who respond to dahard are sadder than he is. I mean.. literally he wastes his or her life on this bullshit. That's pretty fukn pathetic. There are just people out there with empty lives who fill it with ... this... shudder. Anyways...
But to respond to him.. why go down that intellectual drain? that's pretty pathetic too.
i can speak from first-hand experience as a native san franciscan.
our local government is so corrupt—and unless you grease the palms of city hall, you'll never get anything done. there was (and still is) an abandoned building (part of it was a theater) on divisadero street several years ago. the owner/developer wanted to put condos in. a neighborhood group wanted to preserve all or at least part of the original structure. they finally reached a compromise with one person from this group holding out. even the local supervisor told them to take the deal. the city had to deny the developer. apparently, this guy wanted the developer to create a living space for him—after the developer had made all these concessions.
san francisco city government is a real joke. and beware, gavin newsom is at the head of it all. he may very well be your next lt. governor if californian's don't wise up. the alternative really sucks, too, so i think we're royally screwed.
Comments
Apple 'says' all manner of things... One learns to discern what's most likely rubbish - Like This!
I've been saying for months now that in many cases complaining to AT&T about local coverage will do you no good. There are many local issues to deal with from anti tower regulations to corrupt officials to excessive concern for historical concerns to government failings.
The reality is in places like San Fransico you really need to go after your local elected officials to fix the problem. In some cases you will have to elect Republicans or other progressives. Unfortunately AT&T has to stay with in the bounds of what is legal and as such you suffer if your local government is confused, regressive or corrupt.
The reality is the engineers at the carriers can figure pretty easily where the next tower needs to go. They know where they need to go before they even weak approval. It isn't like they throw a box of tooth picks on a map and say here is where the towers need to go. When you live in an area where the towers are approved fast and go up fast you get good service, there is nothing difficult to understand here.
In contrast if you live someplace where a dumb bitch with a little influence with the local government can go about soecifing tower locations then you get bad coverage. Contest to popular belief in some circles getting elected doesn't give you the power to re write the laws of physics.
Dave
Yep... A town where I once lived was very anti tower and for most of the 90s we went without any coverage at all.... Then the cell providers made deals with many of the large churches in town to ingeniously locate antennas inside the large/tall steeples... Then the town once again stepped in and put the kibosh on the deals... Why? The town was going to take away the churches tax exempt status since profits on the agreements weren't looked at too favorably by the town leadership.
So... Another few years went by and we finally got a tower on the side of our local highway that looks exactly like that silly tree tower linked to above. The picture doesn't do it justice since 3 qtrs of the 'tree' is just brown steel and then near the very to are these silly tree branches. It looks so silly.
So just a heads up that SF isn't the only tower troublemakers.. They have at least one sister city back east...
It's the classic locational dilemma. Everybody wants things like cell towers, but nobody wants them right where they live. I have rarely heard anyone admit that they are no different than anyone else in this respect, but when it comes down to it, this is a behavior that transcends politics, socioeconomics, and ideologies.
Maybe if you (and your ilk) would removed those Apple-tinted goggles every once in a while you'd better see that no company is infallible... no matter how much you claim otherwise.
Your agenda doesn't actually fit this story. Did you watch the presentation video? Jobs clearly says that Apple and their products aren't perfect. I don't remember any PR from any company saying that before. Do you?
Maybe if you don't come here with an axe to grind, you might not get flak for grinding your axe at every opportunity that you see. I realize that sometimes people come across as insufferable fanboys, but then, that doesn't justify coming across as an insufferable troll.
So... Another few years went by and we finally got a tower on the side of our local highway that looks exactly like that silly tree tower linked to above. The picture doesn't do it justice since 3 qtrs of the 'tree' is just brown steel and then near the very to are these silly tree branches. It looks so silly.
I see these by the freeway all the time. Who are they trying to fool really.... Does it make people happier if they see an antenna pretending to be a tree versus just an antenna.
Some neighborhoods in California are impossible to get even a single cell tower installed, even on the freeway. Sometimes you wonder wether these local activists understand that neighborhoods belong to everyone. And just a few a mile in next city, cellphone reception is at optimum because there are several cell towers.
So the situation in San Francisco is not too bad compared to South Orange County, Ca.
obs said. "(AT&T has) tried to make them look like banana trees, but still, it's a problem."
This is San Francisco - ATT needs to make them look like banana HAMMOCKS, they would be approved in three HOURS!
sorry, couldn't resist!
I see these by the freeway all the time. Who are they trying to fool really.... Does it make people happier if they see an antenna pretending to be a tree versus just an antenna.
I think you have a point there, a case can be made for actually doing a decent job of it.
One thing I want to ask is, how many useful man-made structures have to be built to look like something they are not? It's not a condition imposed on anything else that I can remember.
Too bad SF keeps getting it in the rear.
I think it is a shame that SF is becoming the butt of all the jokes around here.... :-)
Too much?
Contact my complaints department.
Apple 'says' all manner of things... One learns to discern what's most likely rubbish - Like This!
DaHarder,
I totally agree with you, as usual. Actually I found a new video on youtube where SJ admits it was all rubbish and that you were right.
Check it out!
As for the banana tree thing, that's true too.
Actually, I am quite certain SJs meant palm tree, not banana tree. I have seen many palm tree, and some evergreen tree cell towers, but a banana tree just ti snot tall enough. Bananas grow in plants that look more like bushes than trees....
(try googling palm vs banana cell tower = many vs no hits...)
I admire communities that try to keep the charm, beauty and livable attributes of their surroundings intact. The only way to achieve this is through regulation. It might anger the pro development, big business types who don't care about anything but the size of their . . . um developments, but you know, who cares? I'd rather live in a nice place than have perfect cell reception. Of course I live in Texas, but I notice Mr. Jobs does not. He might like Texas because of it's lax regulations, but he would never live here.
I live in Texas and have for most of my life. How shall I put this? Uh, Texas and all of it's cities are ugly. Very, very few people here have any real appreciation or knowledge of design - whether it is phones or city planning. They like to pretend they care about their past, but they don't. Texas treats their cities and neighborhoods just like Los Angeles - they tear them down when they get old thus destroying any desirable character. So a cell tower is a non-issue. The community of Wimberly near Austin tried to stop a cell tower from going up and they failed miserably.
I admire communities that try to keep the charm, beauty and livable attributes of their surroundings intact. The only way to achieve this is through regulation. It might anger the pro development, big business types who don't care about anything but the size of their . . . um developments, but you know, who cares? I'd rather live in a nice place than have perfect cell reception. Of course I live in Texas, but I notice Mr. Jobs does not. He might like Texas because of it's lax regulations, but he would never live here.
A thoughtful and well-put counter point
(But I still think 3 years is a bit much. More ingenious solutions are needed, if that costs me as a wireless subscriber, so be it)
I live in Texas and have for most of my life. How shall I put this? Uh, Texas and all of it's cities are ugly. Very, very few people here have any real appreciation or knowledge of design - whether it is phones or city planning. They like to pretend they care about their past, but they don't. Texas treats their cities and neighborhoods just like Los Angeles - they tear them down when they get old thus destroying any desirable character. So a cell tower is a non-issue. The community of Wimberly near Austin tried to stop a cell tower from going up and they failed miserably.
I admire communities that try to keep the charm, beauty and livable attributes of their surroundings intact. The only way to achieve this is through regulation. It might anger the pro development, big business types who don't care about anything but the size of their . . . um developments, but you know, who cares? I'd rather live in a nice place than have perfect cell reception. Of course I live in Texas, but I notice Mr. Jobs does not. He might like Texas because of it's lax regulations, but he would never live here.
So, to fight one extreme, you have to go to another extreme? As in, there's no middle ground? There's proper regulation, and then there's excessive regulation.
I think some SF folks are concerned with looks, but then there are also those involved in fearmongering about RF radiation, blocking cell towers might actually make the situation worse as the phone radio has to increase its power for the signal to reach the tower.
Apple 'says' all manner of things... One learns to discern what's most likely rubbish - Like This!
This is absolutely true so STFU since you have no clue - just spoke with my daughter who lives right in the city in SF and her neighbors just banded together and successfully stopped the building of a cell tower in her neighborhood which has a big park and gets quite busy on the weekends. The city should confiscate their cell phones for being such jerks.
But to respond to him.. why go down that intellectual drain? that's pretty pathetic too.
our local government is so corrupt—and unless you grease the palms of city hall, you'll never get anything done. there was (and still is) an abandoned building (part of it was a theater) on divisadero street several years ago. the owner/developer wanted to put condos in. a neighborhood group wanted to preserve all or at least part of the original structure. they finally reached a compromise with one person from this group holding out. even the local supervisor told them to take the deal. the city had to deny the developer. apparently, this guy wanted the developer to create a living space for him—after the developer had made all these concessions.
san francisco city government is a real joke. and beware, gavin newsom is at the head of it all. he may very well be your next lt. governor if californian's don't wise up. the alternative really sucks, too, so i think we're royally screwed.
This is the first time San Francisco has been known to not fully embrace a few rods!
i got nuthin
That's not San Francisco bashing, that's something else entirely, you backward-ass fuckwit.