Apple profits soar 77% on record sales of 3.47 million Macs

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  • Reply 41 of 109
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    They've been building cash reserves at a rate of over $1b a month for several years now. Some seem to think it would be virtually criminal for Apple to give even some small fraction of that growing cash hoard back to the stockholders. Beats me why.



    Come on! Everyone knows it's because they're saving up to buy Microsoft
  • Reply 42 of 109
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,586member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTel View Post


    It is always more that analysts predict on Mac units sold. That's not as many iPads as I thought would be sold and it looks like sales of iPhone slowed down prior to the iPhone 4 launch (no surprise).



    I don't know if this was responded to yet, but Apple addressed that in the call.



    Apple stopped supplying 3GS models a couple of weeks before the iPhone 4 announcement. They estimate that they would have sold about 250,000 more phones this quarter if they hadn't.
  • Reply 43 of 109
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,586member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post


    Why is it despite Mac sales figures going up in leaps each quarter, Mac market share on



    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-m...e.aspx?qprid=9



    has barely moved over the past 12 months. Why is use of Macs not surging like Google Chrome?



    PC sales go up as well, though not as much.
  • Reply 44 of 109
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,586member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by john galt View Post


    No. I don't want dividends. Dividends are for utilities and staid old fossils like MSFT. Apple is a technology leader that needs to continue growing. I like the $40B in the bank. I love its price appreciation.



    MSFT responded to demands for dividends, and pays, what, 3¢ a share (correction: 13¢.... big deal). Its share price has been flat ever since (of course, being a has-been of a company is a factor too).



    No dividends.



    Apple now has $47 billion in the bank approx.



    MS gives about a 2% dividend, about $0.52 per share. Considering the price of the stock, that would be about $5.00 for Apple's stock. In other words, the same amount.
  • Reply 45 of 109
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,586member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    They've been building cash reserves at a rate of over $1b a month for several years now. Some seem to think it would be virtually criminal for Apple to give even some small fraction of that growing cash hoard back to the stockholders. Beats me why.



    I think they should have bought Palm. The $600 million bid was like bidding low on eBay. You hope no one else bids, and you win at the lw price.
  • Reply 46 of 109
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post


    Why is it despite Mac sales figures going up in leaps each quarter, Mac market share on



    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-m...e.aspx?qprid=9



    has barely moved over the past 12 months. Why is use of Macs not surging like Google Chrome?



    First, the methodology in that survey is bogus. it's not a measure of market share at all - just a measure of how many people hit a given set of sites.



    For market share, you can look at publicly released figures:



    1. Growth rate of Mac sales

    2. Growth rate of all PC sales



    As long as 1 is growing faster than 2, Apple's market share is growing - and it has been for quite some time. The latest quarter will be another quarter of growing market share.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    They've been building cash reserves at a rate of over $1b a month for several years now. Some seem to think it would be virtually criminal for Apple to give even some small fraction of that growing cash hoard back to the stockholders. Beats me why.



    They should only return the cash to the shareholders if they don't conceive of any better way to invest it. Apple has apparently decided that they want cash on hand both for potential acquisitions and so that they don't have to cut back on R&D and other investments if sales slow down.



    Frankly, I trust Apple to know what to do with their money more than some random person whining on AI about wanting a dividend. If you want a dividend, buy utility stocks.
  • Reply 47 of 109
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,586member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by john galt View Post


    You vote your shares, Dr. I'll vote mine.



    I'll win.



    No, I will.
  • Reply 48 of 109
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,586member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    No, actually, you lose. We never get to vote our shares for or against a dividend, but I suppose you didn't know that.



    Either way, I never do seem to get a response to substance of the matter, which tells me a lot about who gets it and who doesn't.



    We've been discussing this for a long time.
  • Reply 49 of 109
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I think they should have bought Palm. The $600 million bid was like bidding low on eBay. You hope no one else bids, and you win at the lw price.



    I wonder if it would have been worth that much to Apple. I suspect not, which is why they didn't go for it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    They should only return the cash to the shareholders if they don't conceive of any better way to invest it. Apple has apparently decided that they want cash on hand both for potential acquisitions and so that they don't have to cut back on R&D and other investments if sales slow down.



    Frankly, I trust Apple to know what to do with their money more than some random person whining on AI about wanting a dividend. If you want a dividend, buy utility stocks.



    Speaking of random whiners...



    Again, a complete lack of substance.
  • Reply 50 of 109
    capnbobcapnbob Posts: 388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    1. Growth rate of Mac sales

    2. Growth rate of all PC sales



    As long as 1 is growing faster than 2, Apple's market share is growing - and it has been for quite some time. The latest quarter will be another quarter of growing market share.



    PC sales are growing pretty fast overall too, primarily in the cheap netbook segments - look at the growth of ASUS and Acer - both massively outstripping Apple in units, share and growth rate. Obviously these are much lower revenue and margin items but in terms of getting new PC units out there into consumer hands, they both are doing a great job. While this low end is growing so fast, there is no way that Apple will see an appreciable increase in its share of units.
  • Reply 51 of 109
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    We've been discussing this for a long time.



    Yup, I know. And each time the subject returns, Apple has another $4-5b in cash reserves piled on top of the mountain of cash they already cannot spend responsibly for growing the company. So the question doesn't go away, it just becomes the progressively larger elephant in the room.
  • Reply 52 of 109
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    No, actually, you lose. We never get to vote our shares for or against a dividend, but I suppose you didn't know that.



    Either way, I never do seem to get a response to substance of the matter, which tells me a lot about who gets it and who doesn't.



    The substance of the matter is that it is a very well-researched topic in financial economics. Dividend payers do tend to throw out a lot of cash, yes, but the evidence also shows that they generally tend to be mature, steady cash flow, low-beta businesses. Apple runs the genuine risk -- it is not certain, however -- of signaling that it might fall into that category. That would not be a good thing for a company that is growing at it's pace and will need to sustain fairly substantial growth to justify even its current prices, let alone what the analysts are currently forecasting.



    I'd be happy to give you references. (Although, I am traveling at the moment, and it will have to wait a couple of days).



    I have no problem with the notion hat Apple could return some sizable smount of cash to shareholders. But it can do so through a special dividend or even a share repurchase (the only sellers would be those who think that Apple has peaked at that price or those who desire the liquidity).
  • Reply 53 of 109
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    We've been discussing this for a long time.



    True. I probably should have kept my mouth shut. Too late. \
  • Reply 54 of 109
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,586member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I wonder if it would have been worth that much to Apple. I suspect not, which is why they didn't go for it.



    Palm's over 400 patents would have been worth it. But Apple just doesn't want to go that high for much of anything, I guess. It would have given them more of a lock on the tech they use. Possibly some good OS API's as well.
  • Reply 55 of 109
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,586member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    The substance of the matter is that it is a very well-researched topic in financial economics. Dividend payers do tend to throw out a lot of cash, yes, but the evidence also shows that they generally tend to be mature, steady cash flow, low-beta businesses. Apple runs the genuine risk -- it is not certain, however -- of signaling that it might fall into that category. That would not be a good thing for a company that is growing at it's pace and will need to sustain fairly substantial growth to justify even its current prices, let alone what the analysts are currently forecasting.



    I'd be happy to give you references. (Although, I am traveling at the moment, and it will have to wait a couple of days).



    I have no problem with the notion hat Apple could return some sizable smount of cash to shareholders. But it can do so through a special dividend or even a share repurchase (the only sellers would be those who think that Apple has peaked at that price or those who desire the liquidity).



    I'm beginning to wonder though if Apple could part with some of the monthly accumulations it seems to be regularly sucking in. It is beginning to look as though Apple won't be able to spend most of this.



    What are they planning? Are they planning anything? I know earlier during the recession they said that the cash was a fallback, and I believe that they were right. At that time, we had no idea as to how deep this recession would become, or how long it would go on.



    Right now however, it looks as though it's slowly moving back to normalcy. We'll get bumps in that road, but it doesn't look as though we'll slip into depression as it looked as though we may. Even the European credit crisis seems to be leveling out. Unemployment is down in 39 states. Spending is slightly up. Do they still need that much of a reserve?



    Apple's R&D is just about, as of last quarter, 3.5% of sales. That's pretty low, so they aren't using it there. Their server farm will be complete as of the end of the year, so the big expense associated with that will be over, and they will be using it, to add to sales.



    So, what's next? $10 billion in disbursement would be a good amount. And I now am beginning to think a 1 to 2% dividend wouldn't hurt.
  • Reply 56 of 109
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,586member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    True. I probably should have kept my mouth shut. Too late. \



    Eh!



    We can discuss this every quarter.
  • Reply 57 of 109
    jimdreamworxjimdreamworx Posts: 1,095member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Windsor Smith View Post


    So now can we get a dividend? Just a little one? Please?



    -- an Apple stockholder



    No need if you know how to buy and sell the stock based on ridiculous media stories and rumours!
  • Reply 58 of 109
    jimdreamworxjimdreamworx Posts: 1,095member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I don't know if this was responded to yet, but Apple addressed that in the call.



    Apple stopped supplying 3GS models a couple of weeks before the iPhone 4 announcement. They estimate that they would have sold about 250,000 more phones this quarter if they hadn't.



    Who is "they?" Apple?
  • Reply 59 of 109
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    The substance of the matter is that it is a very well-researched topic in financial economics. Dividend payers do tend to throw out a lot of cash, yes, but the evidence also shows that they generally tend to be mature, steady cash flow, low-beta businesses. Apple runs the genuine risk -- it is not certain, however -- of signaling that it might fall into that category. That would not be a good thing for a company that is growing at it's pace and will need to sustain fairly substantial growth to justify even its current prices, let alone what the analysts are currently forecasting.



    I'd be happy to give you references. (Although, I am traveling at the moment, and it will have to wait a couple of days).



    I have no problem with the notion hat Apple could return some sizable smount of cash to shareholders. But it can do so through a special dividend or even a share repurchase (the only sellers would be those who think that Apple has peaked at that price or those who desire the liquidity).



    I don't necessarily want to rehash this, but I think at some point it becomes incumbent on those who believe paying a dividend is a horrible thing to show how Apple could responsibly spend as much cash as they've accumulated on growing their business, which in the end, is the only issue that actually matters. And please, don't throw out vague apocalyptic scenarios for how they might need it when their business collapses.



    Every time the subject comes up, I also ask: how much is enough? A year ago, $45b was a theory -- now it's a reality. By this time next year, they could easily be parking $60b in the bank. Then what? Is the goal to reach $100b and call it a day?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Palm's over 400 patents would have been worth it. But Apple just doesn't want to go that high for much of anything, I guess. It would have given them more of a lock on the tech they use. Possibly some good OS API's as well.



    Kind of proves my point, doesn't it? Apple could have bought Palm 50 times over, but they don't want to go that high for anything apparently. So what's the cash for?
  • Reply 60 of 109
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    It wasn't nonsense. Apple shouldn't provide a dividend currently. Doing so would be irresponsible. The reality is Apple is currently defending quite a few serious lawsuits. Some are asking for big dollars. Apple has to keep enough money around to weather any potential adverse judgements. Further, Apple wants to keep enough money around to snap up deals in this down economy and have enough money in the bank to weather a storm. Apple remembers what it is like to almost have to go out of business. The money in the bank is a security blanket and gives it a lot of freedom to take competitive chances it might not otherwise have to do.



    If the economy tanks in a way to effect Apple's business, or Apple stumbles, it has significant liability. Look at Gateway. If Apple had to reduce it's retail presence, it is subject to a heavy cost in terms of buying itself out of leases.



    Offering a dividend would do little to give value back to the average investor. It didn't do anything for Microsoft. The stock settled in and has had very little growth since then.



    As long as Apple is growing it's business, a dividend is unnecessary. I bought four hundred shares of Apple at 12 a share. It split twice. Apple has rewarded me quite well. A dividend is meaningless.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Such utter nonsense. Dividends are for companies throwing off more cash than they could realistically reinvest in expanding their business, a situation which perfectly describes Apple. The comparison to Microsoft is useless.



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