It was merely a rough estimate, and should be taken as such.
I trust the rough estimate is based on careful analysis. I was just wondering if you could narrow it down a bit. Because with such ridiculously high margins, there has to be some shenanigans going on at Apple accounting wise. Their stated margins are way lower than your estimates were as in reality they should be close to Microsoft's. There is a lot of cash missing at Apple.
if Apple can;t say something like the price is close to $100 under what they sell the phone its still a rip off, selling 9.5+ million phones at $100 made per phone would mean that any costs of design would be taken care of ove and over... so i still feel that it is outrageously priced (for sales they expect, if those sales were half or maybe even 2/3rds it would make more sense...)
i feel that Apple would make monay of the iphone if they sold it for a penny above the manufacturing cost... (not really, but if it was $25 then it would be at least 10m (ip4 should sell at least this much before thye make a new one) that would be 25 million dollars... not including app's (new costumer,think it was like 25% of ip4 users are new (that or around 75% of 3g/gs users are going to ip4)
i mean Apple is showing the world how much F***ing $ they have on hand, you can argue its not much in terms of costs for keeping a company going, but they keep making record profits... if the lowered the price of the ip4 lets say 25% (using that it costs aprox 300 for cheapest model) ($600 unsubsidized) the price would be $450... that is still a $150 profit margin per phone... if people had to pay $50 up front for the ip4 i bet a lot more people would buy it...
You're suggesting they charge less? Let's have you run a business, let you make ~35-40% GROSS margin (which is not profit, for details read up corp finance) and I'll tell you to drop your selling price by 25%. THEN, you can tell Apple to do the same, or anyone else for that matter.
Now try that nonsense in relation to an iPod Touch, Classic, Shuffle or more specifically an iPhone 3GS (which is still being sold/subsidized), and you'll be well within the ballpark of my estimates.
Otherwise, I really don't care...
HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHA
I usually refrain from such outbursts, but in your case, I can't help it!
Apple writes off R&D costs every quarter in their SG&A. It's a separate line item in their SEC form.
R&D is written off, to a certain extent in that some of it is subrtacted from income. But not all, and the cost still must be factored into the price of the product.
Don't give him a hard time. He is right. Apple should adjust its margins to the same level as Microsoft. Microsoft sold XP for 10 years at the same price. That is the proper way to take care of our customer. Office too has stayed a bargain for decades.
Yeah, I mean EVERYONE should have 80% gross margin like poor Microsoft, right? How dare Apple have 40% margin when they provide an OS AND Hardware to go with it. The audacity, the audacity, we deserve to hack them at the knees to bring them down to Earth. No one deserves to win!
Idiots. If people just worked hard and smart, they could have their own success. Instead they try and bring people down because they can't stand their success.
Don't give him a hard time. He is right. Apple should adjust its margins to the same level as Microsoft. Microsoft sold XP for 10 years at the same price. That is the proper way to take care of our customer. Office too has stayed a bargain for decades.
That's a joke, right?
You do understand that MS's margins are almost double that of Apple, including the large losses from most of their business outside the monopoly areas of OS and Office?
That's only because that all you're looking for... the adverse.
Closer observation would reveal that I comment/blog/post on numerous products/services, Apple included, both favorably and otherwise.
Have a nice night...
That's all YOU'RE looking for - to be contrarian no matter what. I've stayed silent observer for quite a while but today's comments took the cake. Look, I have gripes about the way some things are handled by Apple and the prices of some products. But really, if you make 'points' like you do, there's just no defending you. There really isn't.
I don't know why you do what you do, but it is pretty amusing. Bring on the flames DaHarder, I'd love to hear some more of your fantastic logic about how a $1000 macbook could be made for $50-$100, with an advanced OS and a ton of free SW. Better still, you do it, I'll even fund you if you let a documentary crew film your 'success story'.
Why are most of the people on this board nothing but whiners? I mean they will criticize everything going down the pipe here. Parts by itself doesn't make a product. Why are people forgetting the research that goes into building the product? Design? etc. etc.
People - If you find Apple products expensive, no one is twisting your arms to buy them, go buy other product and enjoy the mediocre products. Secondly, the phones are subsidized by your carrier, let them worry about the real price of the phone. Your carrier isn't stupid either - they are recovering the money nicely also.
i mean Apple is showing the world how much F***ing $ they have on hand, you can argue its not much in terms of costs for keeping a company going, but they keep making record profits…
if the lowered the price of the ip4 lets say 25% (using that it costs aprox 300 for cheapest model) ($600 unsubsidized) the price would be $450... that is still a $150 profit margin per phone... if people had to pay $50 up front for the ip4 i bet a lot more people would buy it...
1) Apple keeps making record profits fore many reasons. The biggest reason we’ve been seeing is the increased sales YoY which are assisted by having a small number of products that are being produced in great and great quantities: economy of scale.
2) If the price was dropped to $450 that wouldn’t necessarily alter the subsidization price offered by carriers. That’s up to the carriers. Some carriers in other countries offer them for less than $200 or even free, but they require different plans and contract durations to achieve this, either way, Apple makes their money.
3) No, more people wouldn’t be buying the iPhone 4 because the iPhone 4 is still sold out. Apple has a benefit of having a product people want, that they can’t produce fast enough, and don’t have to use shovelware to turn even a small profit. Yes, some smartphones are being shipped with pre-loaded shovelware that isn’t easily to remove.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Well, now weve got a mini troll to play along with you, unless it's just you with another account.
I know you aren’t one to use the ban hammer, but this thread has already been jacked by asinine comments that are clearly written to troll. I implore you to consider the option.
Parts costs are a fraction of total costs of goods sold. Costs of goods sold do not include R&D and operating expenses. None of these expenses are just "written off" they are real cash expenses where money is paid out to suppliers, manufacturers, employees, advertising and other marketing, law suits, free bumpers, shipping, related software such as iTunes etc. As expenses they are deducted from revenue when calculating taxable income, but "writing it off" has nothing to do with you not paying real cash for it.
As for Apple cutting their prices, do you idiots have any idea how a free market works? Have you no concept of supply and demand? Here's a clue. If people are lining up to buy a product in short supply, you RAISE the price to reduce demand to a level where you have enough supply to satisfy it. If you have tons of unsold inventory, or un tapped supply capacity, you lower prices to increase demand. At this point, the only rational argument is that the iPhone and iPad are too cheap based on Apples limited production capacity. If you lower the price of the iPad to $100, who even can get one will sell it for $600+ and make the $500 profit. Why should Apple give the product away and let the lucky customers make a profit when they could raise the price and keep the $500 themselves? Note this is supply and demand and has nothing to do with parts costs!
Since Apple won't supply iSuppli with the actual costs, it's a bit rich to expect iSuppli to be accurate in their estimates. If they want it to be accurate, then Apple could provide the info that allows it. If they want to be secretive about such things, then surely they have no business b!tching* when a company like iSuppli consequently makes what Apple deems to be inaccurate guesses.
I wonder if any other manufacturers use their financial reporting conference call time to bleat about iSuppli? Perhaps somebody could look that up. Say, Daniel... you don't seem to have much to do, judging by this latest piece - you could probably fit that into your schedule.
*A colloquialism for "sniping", present tense of "to snipe" as opposed to past tense, "sniped".
I know you aren’t one to use the ban hammer, but this thread has already been jacked by asinine comments that are clearly written to troll. I implore you to consider the option.
Unfortunately, people respectfully discussing a topic is not a violation of forum rules in the least.
I know that you desire to 'eliminate' any opinion with which you don't agree, but it's really not fair or reasonable.
Comments
It was merely a rough estimate, and should be taken as such.
I trust the rough estimate is based on careful analysis. I was just wondering if you could narrow it down a bit. Because with such ridiculously high margins, there has to be some shenanigans going on at Apple accounting wise. Their stated margins are way lower than your estimates were as in reality they should be close to Microsoft's. There is a lot of cash missing at Apple.
if Apple can;t say something like the price is close to $100 under what they sell the phone its still a rip off, selling 9.5+ million phones at $100 made per phone would mean that any costs of design would be taken care of ove and over... so i still feel that it is outrageously priced (for sales they expect, if those sales were half or maybe even 2/3rds it would make more sense...)
i feel that Apple would make monay of the iphone if they sold it for a penny above the manufacturing cost... (not really, but if it was $25 then it would be at least 10m (ip4 should sell at least this much before thye make a new one) that would be 25 million dollars... not including app's (new costumer,think it was like 25% of ip4 users are new (that or around 75% of 3g/gs users are going to ip4)
i mean Apple is showing the world how much F***ing $ they have on hand, you can argue its not much in terms of costs for keeping a company going, but they keep making record profits... if the lowered the price of the ip4 lets say 25% (using that it costs aprox 300 for cheapest model) ($600 unsubsidized) the price would be $450... that is still a $150 profit margin per phone... if people had to pay $50 up front for the ip4 i bet a lot more people would buy it...
You're suggesting they charge less? Let's have you run a business, let you make ~35-40% GROSS margin (which is not profit, for details read up corp finance) and I'll tell you to drop your selling price by 25%. THEN, you can tell Apple to do the same, or anyone else for that matter.
I'm amazed, truly am.
What's the big surprise...
How else do people think Apple keeps posting these (questionably) astronomical quarterly profits?
Hint: By charging 10 to 20 times more than the value of the actual hardware.
Oh please, that's worse than your usual drivel.
Now try that nonsense in relation to an iPod Touch, Classic, Shuffle or more specifically an iPhone 3GS (which is still being sold/subsidized), and you'll be well within the ballpark of my estimates.
Otherwise, I really don't care...
HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHA
I usually refrain from such outbursts, but in your case, I can't help it!
Apple writes off R&D costs every quarter in their SG&A. It's a separate line item in their SEC form.
R&D is written off, to a certain extent in that some of it is subrtacted from income. But not all, and the cost still must be factored into the price of the product.
No, but other device manufacturers do seem more focused on proving a bit of 'value' in their wares than Apple.
But, as long as Apple can sell (essentially the same parts as other companies) at exorbitant prices, all's well within the iFanDom.
They don't sell 'parts'.
Enjoying all the attention, aren't you? I'll humor you for a bit and respond to your little gems.
Have no fear, like clockwork, DaHarder is here. Not just on AI, I've seen him on most tech blogs where any Apple (or anti-Apple) article is.
10 to 20 times, let's see the math now shall we? How do you know how much it costs?
That's only because that all you're looking for... the adverse.
Closer observation would reveal that I comment/blog/post on numerous products/services, Apple included, both favorably and otherwise.
Have a nice night...
Don't give him a hard time. He is right. Apple should adjust its margins to the same level as Microsoft. Microsoft sold XP for 10 years at the same price. That is the proper way to take care of our customer. Office too has stayed a bargain for decades.
Yeah, I mean EVERYONE should have 80% gross margin like poor Microsoft, right? How dare Apple have 40% margin when they provide an OS AND Hardware to go with it. The audacity, the audacity, we deserve to hack them at the knees to bring them down to Earth. No one deserves to win!
Idiots. If people just worked hard and smart, they could have their own success. Instead they try and bring people down because they can't stand their success.
Don't give him a hard time. He is right. Apple should adjust its margins to the same level as Microsoft. Microsoft sold XP for 10 years at the same price. That is the proper way to take care of our customer. Office too has stayed a bargain for decades.
That's a joke, right?
You do understand that MS's margins are almost double that of Apple, including the large losses from most of their business outside the monopoly areas of OS and Office?
It was merely a rough estimate (like 99.9% of every figure posted in here), and should be taken as such.
Well, now weve got a mini troll to play along with you, unless it's just you with another account.
Well, now weve got a mini troll to play along with you, unless it's just you with another account.
I have no idea what you're talking about, though I do wonder sometimes if the intention here is to 'moderate' or 'instigate'...
To each their own.
That's only because that all you're looking for... the adverse.
Closer observation would reveal that I comment/blog/post on numerous products/services, Apple included, both favorably and otherwise.
Have a nice night...
That's all YOU'RE looking for - to be contrarian no matter what. I've stayed silent observer for quite a while but today's comments took the cake. Look, I have gripes about the way some things are handled by Apple and the prices of some products. But really, if you make 'points' like you do, there's just no defending you. There really isn't.
I don't know why you do what you do, but it is pretty amusing. Bring on the flames DaHarder, I'd love to hear some more of your fantastic logic about how a $1000 macbook could be made for $50-$100, with an advanced OS and a ton of free SW. Better still, you do it, I'll even fund you if you let a documentary crew film your 'success story'.
There is a lot of cash missing at Apple.
Could you mean the $4bn in cash they put away this quarter?
People - If you find Apple products expensive, no one is twisting your arms to buy them, go buy other product and enjoy the mediocre products. Secondly, the phones are subsidized by your carrier, let them worry about the real price of the phone. Your carrier isn't stupid either - they are recovering the money nicely also.
Am I the only one who thinks Apple is not referring specifically to iSupply, but to every so called component price guru outside of Cupertino?
No... You're not.
i mean Apple is showing the world how much F***ing $ they have on hand, you can argue its not much in terms of costs for keeping a company going, but they keep making record profits…
if the lowered the price of the ip4 lets say 25% (using that it costs aprox 300 for cheapest model) ($600 unsubsidized) the price would be $450... that is still a $150 profit margin per phone... if people had to pay $50 up front for the ip4 i bet a lot more people would buy it...
1) Apple keeps making record profits fore many reasons. The biggest reason we’ve been seeing is the increased sales YoY which are assisted by having a small number of products that are being produced in great and great quantities: economy of scale.
2) If the price was dropped to $450 that wouldn’t necessarily alter the subsidization price offered by carriers. That’s up to the carriers. Some carriers in other countries offer them for less than $200 or even free, but they require different plans and contract durations to achieve this, either way, Apple makes their money.
3) No, more people wouldn’t be buying the iPhone 4 because the iPhone 4 is still sold out. Apple has a benefit of having a product people want, that they can’t produce fast enough, and don’t have to use shovelware to turn even a small profit. Yes, some smartphones are being shipped with pre-loaded shovelware that isn’t easily to remove.
Well, now weve got a mini troll to play along with you, unless it's just you with another account.
I know you aren’t one to use the ban hammer, but this thread has already been jacked by asinine comments that are clearly written to troll. I implore you to consider the option.
As for Apple cutting their prices, do you idiots have any idea how a free market works? Have you no concept of supply and demand? Here's a clue. If people are lining up to buy a product in short supply, you RAISE the price to reduce demand to a level where you have enough supply to satisfy it. If you have tons of unsold inventory, or un tapped supply capacity, you lower prices to increase demand. At this point, the only rational argument is that the iPhone and iPad are too cheap based on Apples limited production capacity. If you lower the price of the iPad to $100, who even can get one will sell it for $600+ and make the $500 profit. Why should Apple give the product away and let the lucky customers make a profit when they could raise the price and keep the $500 themselves? Note this is supply and demand and has nothing to do with parts costs!
I wonder if any other manufacturers use their financial reporting conference call time to bleat about iSuppli? Perhaps somebody could look that up. Say, Daniel... you don't seem to have much to do, judging by this latest piece - you could probably fit that into your schedule.
*A colloquialism for "sniping", present tense of "to snipe" as opposed to past tense, "sniped".
I know you aren’t one to use the ban hammer, but this thread has already been jacked by asinine comments that are clearly written to troll. I implore you to consider the option.
Unfortunately, people respectfully discussing a topic is not a violation of forum rules in the least.
I know that you desire to 'eliminate' any opinion with which you don't agree, but it's really not fair or reasonable.
Post and Let Post... Peacefully