which shows the change in how the bars are presented after the 4.0.1 update.
(I agree that it would be better to see raw figures rather than an arbitrary 'code' for just about any measurement, but the rest of the public might not, alas.)
What r Tmobiles rates for unlimited voice, text and data? Right now I pay $120/mo to AT&T. Contract is up in October and would jump ship for a savings of $20-$50/mo!
Perhaps if you actually tried to participate on these forums in a sensible manner instead of usually pasting silly comments taken out of context you’d understand by now that GSM/UMTS networks are nothing like CDMA/CDM2000 networks.
Most people's basic understanding of cell phone carriers is that AT&T and T-Mobile use GSM while Verizon uses CDMA.
Then there is the issue of different GSM frequencies. The article claims that making an iPhone for T-Mobile is easier than making one for Verizon. And the sole reason provided is that T-Mobile just uses different GSM frequencies, but Verizon uses totally different technology, presumably referring to CDMA. The article does not take into account the fact that Verizon does sell phones which include SIM cards and are GSM capable.
So given the fact that Verizon does sell some GSM capable phones, why would it be any harder to make an iPhone for Verizon compared to T-Mobile? It's just the frequency, right? That is a perfectly reasonable question to ask. And if there are other underlying reasons, like does Verizon have any GSM towers, the article certainly did not address them. So there is no reason for you to get all bent out of shape with your snotty insulting comments.
The prices above with the $100/month for 1 and $180/month for two is only if you get a subsidized phone and sign a two year contract.
If you already have your own phones then you go with the NO CONTRACT plan which is $80/month for 1 line and $140/month for 2 lines.
If you sign the contract, then you're paying $480 extra for the life of the contract.. plus $20 more per line if you keep the same plan after your contract ends. With the contract, you're basically paying for the phone itself every month plus $80+ in interest over 2+ years. (20% interest if you know what I mean....) You'd be better off getting the phone with our credit card and NOT sign a contract... their interest rate is much lower.
If you don't sign the contract and pay the full retail price for the iphone, you're basically paying for price of the phone upfront and pay no interest... unless you use a credit card.. which will definitely be less than 20% interest unless you go into default. Save your money... use a credit card to get your phone or just pay cash!
If you think Apple is gonna waste their time coming up with a "new" iPhone to run on T-Mobiles' piss ass little network. WHY? there is no money to gain. Verizon is where it's at. 80+Million? Plus all the defectors from AT&T? Second largest carrier in the US? Why the hell would they go with T-Mobile. We all know what a greedy bitch Jobs is...he's all about the money...
It would be interesting to see if the minutes/data plans are the same as AT&T or if T-Mo in a competitive bid to gain some AT&T iPhone users puts out a plan with more minutes, tethering included, SMS included and higher MB or Gigabite data for same price, thus forcing AT&T to revise it's plans. Competition... it's a good thing!
My friend iphone is on t-mobile when he is in the united states. He is on fido in canada. My iphone goes with at&t in the us, i am with telus in canada
If you think Apple is gonna waste their time coming up with a "new" iPhone to run on T-Mobiles' piss ass little network. WHY? there is no money to gain. Verizon is where it's at. 80+Million? Plus all the defectors from AT&T? Second largest carrier in the US? Why the hell would they go with T-Mobile. We all know what a greedy bitch Jobs is...he's all about the money...
Until Verizon gets their LTE network rolled out, what's the point for Apple to move? They still make tons of money off the AT&T deal, and people are more than content to put up with the smaller 3g network.
CDMA does have some advantages, like better reception indoors, but CDMA needs to go away, I'd rather be on the same global standard as everyone else, and fully expect better things when LTE comes around (but not excited about the tiered data plans), SIM cards, etc.
I don't see the point of T-Mobile, yes, it's GSM, but it's a different frequency and a much, much smaller network.
Well, it is what you get when you don't employ a universal standard. Something that America defends in the name of democracy.
So we end up with different operating systems, different frequencies and different protocols. The only thing that really stays much the same is cost.
For those that think that an additional carrier or two will drive down prices should look to every other country that has the same options. No. They don't drop.
However, I do hope to see T-Mobile and eventually Verizon get the iPhone. Not that the service or the prices will be any better, but just to see Apple wipe the competition off the map.
It is interesting that since virtually ever country in the world (except the US) reduced the standard 17-year patent protection, in some cases to 3 years, on medications, the prices on ethical prescription medications has increased significantly. They had to. Otherwise, they couldn't get their return on investment. And not to worry, the American pharmaceutical industry was about to keep their price lower; afteral, we now have a global economy to address.
So it looks as if T-Mobile has a lot of work to do. A lot of towers to build (lease) and a lot of miles to cover. In the end, they will face the same issues that wireless has always been encumbered with, i.e., once you impede the line of sight, the system begins to become compromised. And as we know, even if we were standing a foot apart and facing each other, there is no guarantee that we will speak the same language.
TMUSA doesn't add much to the table except being able to say you have an additional carrier. They have the smallest national 3G network in the country and cede to regional affiliates in parts of the country. T-Mobile is the solution that makes the most if you want an easy solution. Verizion makes a lot more sense for profit.
Long term, Verizon would generate more profit, but in the short term, Apple would have to eat some substantial R&D costs, thus reducing the gross margin early on.
Changes to the iPhone to make it work on the T-Mobile USA network are minimal. The R&D costs have already been written off so gross margin would be almost as high. The way Apple has added additional carriers overseas (all of them GSM/UTMS carriers) indicates that Apple is likely to add T-Mobile USA. They have added many smaller 3G/UTMS carriers in other countries so the fact that T-Mobile USA is the fourth largest US mobile operator is a straw man argument.
It's likely that there's a CDMA iPhone prototype somewhere in a lab in Cupertino, probably dozens of them (including previous generation iPhones).
Whether or not Verizon is even willing to accept Apple's terms is questionable at best. Apple would probably need additional CDMA carriers to commit before taking on the task and expense of bringing a CDMA iPhone to steady state production quality.
Most people's basic understanding of cell phone carriers is that AT&T and T-Mobile use GSM while Verizon uses CDMA.
Then there is the issue of different GSM frequencies. The article claims that making an iPhone for T-Mobile is easier than making one for Verizon. And the sole reason provided is that T-Mobile just uses different GSM frequencies, but Verizon uses totally different technology, presumably referring to CDMA. The article does not take into account the fact that Verizon does sell phones which include SIM cards and are GSM capable.
So given the fact that Verizon does sell some GSM capable phones, why would it be any harder to make an iPhone for Verizon compared to T-Mobile? It's just the frequency, right? That is a perfectly reasonable question to ask. And if there are other underlying reasons, like does Verizon have any GSM towers, the article certainly did not address them. So there is no reason for you to get all bent out of shape with your snotty insulting comments.
The vast majority (probably 99.9%) of Verizon phones run CDMA only. Why? Because that is what their network is currently configured for. The phones that do GSM are only meant for use when traveling out of the country. Or for the low, low price of one arm and one leg they will rent you a gsm phone for use when traveling out of the country. Gsm phones can't operate on their network.
Even when buying up competitors they generally stuck with buying cdma based competitors like Alltel.
Until Verizon gets their LTE network rolled out, what's the point for Apple to move? They still make tons of money off the AT&T deal, and people are more than content to put up with the smaller 3g network.
CDMA does have some advantages, like better reception indoors, but CDMA needs to go away, I'd rather be on the same global standard as everyone else, and fully expect better things when LTE comes around (but not excited about the tiered data plans), SIM cards, etc.
I don't see the point of T-Mobile, yes, it's GSM, but it's a different frequency and a much, much smaller network.
T-Mobile has 30+ Million customers. Norway has only 4.8 Million people, yet Apple saw it good to support both carriers (Telenor, Netcom) in the country, even after first having exclusivity with just one of them.
Why would Apple not want to access 30 Million customers is beyond me, especially since T-Mobile customers are very loyal due to its high customer service and low prices.
Yup. Look at Google's Nexus One. They offered a TMO and AT&T versions. If Google can do it, then Apple can easily do it as well. It's the exclusivity contract that's holding this up...
If you think Apple is gonna waste their time coming up with a "new" iPhone to run on T-Mobiles' piss ass little network. WHY? there is no money to gain. Verizon is where it's at. 80+Million? Plus all the defectors from AT&T? Second largest carrier in the US? Why the hell would they go with T-Mobile. We all know what a greedy bitch Jobs is...he's all about the money...
There is money to gain if both Apple and TMO are seeing eye-to-eye and that's: Growth potential. Tmobile may be the smallest of the other US carriers, but people who are on ATT/VZ may be tempted to jump ship over to TMO where their rates are lower and offerings are more lenient.
More iPhones will be sold - Win for Apple
More customers to grow the carrier - Win for Tmobile
Both will grow in presence.
Why cater to existing customers, when everyone'sin the business to get new ones.
Yup. Look at Google's Nexus One. They offered a TMO and AT&T versions. If Google can do it, then Apple can easily do it as well. It's the exclusivity contract that's holding this up...
Contracts are rewritten all the time. Heck, that's what a mortgage refi is. We have no idea if the alleged original exclusivity term of five years is still in effect.
Based on Wired's exposé of Apple and AT&T's strained relations, it's entirely possible (maybe even likely) that the contract was changed to one-year exclusivity and extended on a yearly basis. We already know that AT&T stopped sharing subscription fees with Apple with the debut of the iPhone 3G and started paying a straight one-time subsidy. A major change in compensation terms likely required a new contract.
If AT&T's exclusivity is about/has expired, the thing that's holding up the T-Mobile iPhone is probably their tardy rollout of a 3G network.
Why does everyone think LTE is 4G? It isn't. It's 3.9G. Not a big deal, but just for clarification. Anyways, T-Mobile wouldn't be that hard since it's essentially the same chip, just swapping out frequencies. However I think Apple has their hands full and isn't really dedicating much time to T-Mobile.
Um, 4G simply means 4th Generation. So how do you figure LTE is not 4G? From what I gather, it's better than Wimax and Sprint is calling that 4G.
So given the fact that Verizon does sell some GSM capable phones, why would it be any harder to make an iPhone for Verizon compared to T-Mobile? It's just the frequency, right? That is a perfectly reasonable question to ask. And if there are other underlying reasons, like does Verizon have any GSM towers, the article certainly did not address them. So there is no reason for you to get all bent out of shape with your snotty insulting comments.
Um, so your argument is that could make a larger iPhone with worse power efficency and a higher coat by making it a World Mode phone? Of course they could, but you are asking the wrong question.
You should be asking: If a World Mode was so ideal why aren't all cellphones made this way? The answer should be obvious. The tradeoff is size, power and coat simply don't work out, and for a company like Apple, who wants one phone for an entire network type, you simply aren't going to get 4 GSM bands, 5 UMTS bands, and however many CDMA/CDMA2000 bands that are needed for a true World Mode phone.
My question to you is: Why is something so obvious to anyone who has frequented this forum as long as you habe being discussed at all in mid-2010? You should be well aware of pros and cons in all areas, to some degree, of 3GPP and 3GPP2 standards and technologies.
Comments
I’d also like the reception bars dropped altogether in favour of something useful or have them outright defined.
Read this page and see how, through a bit of non-user-friendly hacking, they got the phone to display numeric values instead of bars:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2
Also:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/i...-41-signal-fix
which shows the change in how the bars are presented after the 4.0.1 update.
(I agree that it would be better to see raw figures rather than an arbitrary 'code' for just about any measurement, but the rest of the public might not, alas.)
T-mobile is listed as one of the 10 brands that will disappear in 2011...why would Apple work with them???
http://patdollard.com/2010/07/10-big...ppear-in-2011/
Interesting analysis, but what the hell is up with the mouth-breather comments below?
What r Tmobiles rates for unlimited voice, text and data? Right now I pay $120/mo to AT&T. Contract is up in October and would jump ship for a savings of $20-$50/mo!
Best.
$99.99. Two lines with the same: $179.99.
Perhaps if you actually tried to participate on these forums in a sensible manner instead of usually pasting silly comments taken out of context you’d understand by now that GSM/UMTS networks are nothing like CDMA/CDM2000 networks.
Most people's basic understanding of cell phone carriers is that AT&T and T-Mobile use GSM while Verizon uses CDMA.
Then there is the issue of different GSM frequencies. The article claims that making an iPhone for T-Mobile is easier than making one for Verizon. And the sole reason provided is that T-Mobile just uses different GSM frequencies, but Verizon uses totally different technology, presumably referring to CDMA. The article does not take into account the fact that Verizon does sell phones which include SIM cards and are GSM capable.
So given the fact that Verizon does sell some GSM capable phones, why would it be any harder to make an iPhone for Verizon compared to T-Mobile? It's just the frequency, right? That is a perfectly reasonable question to ask. And if there are other underlying reasons, like does Verizon have any GSM towers, the article certainly did not address them. So there is no reason for you to get all bent out of shape with your snotty insulting comments.
$99.99. Two lines with the same: $179.99.
The prices above with the $100/month for 1 and $180/month for two is only if you get a subsidized phone and sign a two year contract.
If you already have your own phones then you go with the NO CONTRACT plan which is $80/month for 1 line and $140/month for 2 lines.
If you sign the contract, then you're paying $480 extra for the life of the contract.. plus $20 more per line if you keep the same plan after your contract ends. With the contract, you're basically paying for the phone itself every month plus $80+ in interest over 2+ years. (20% interest if you know what I mean....) You'd be better off getting the phone with our credit card and NOT sign a contract... their interest rate is much lower.
If you don't sign the contract and pay the full retail price for the iphone, you're basically paying for price of the phone upfront and pay no interest... unless you use a credit card.. which will definitely be less than 20% interest unless you go into default. Save your money... use a credit card to get your phone or just pay cash!
It would be interesting to see if the minutes/data plans are the same as AT&T or if T-Mo in a competitive bid to gain some AT&T iPhone users puts out a plan with more minutes, tethering included, SMS included and higher MB or Gigabite data for same price, thus forcing AT&T to revise it's plans. Competition... it's a good thing!
If you think Apple is gonna waste their time coming up with a "new" iPhone to run on T-Mobiles' piss ass little network. WHY? there is no money to gain. Verizon is where it's at. 80+Million? Plus all the defectors from AT&T? Second largest carrier in the US? Why the hell would they go with T-Mobile. We all know what a greedy bitch Jobs is...he's all about the money...
Until Verizon gets their LTE network rolled out, what's the point for Apple to move? They still make tons of money off the AT&T deal, and people are more than content to put up with the smaller 3g network.
CDMA does have some advantages, like better reception indoors, but CDMA needs to go away, I'd rather be on the same global standard as everyone else, and fully expect better things when LTE comes around (but not excited about the tiered data plans), SIM cards, etc.
I don't see the point of T-Mobile, yes, it's GSM, but it's a different frequency and a much, much smaller network.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9ff2a5e4-3...44feabdc0.html
BRING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's pretty bad, isn't it?
Well, it is what you get when you don't employ a universal standard. Something that America defends in the name of democracy.
So we end up with different operating systems, different frequencies and different protocols. The only thing that really stays much the same is cost.
For those that think that an additional carrier or two will drive down prices should look to every other country that has the same options. No. They don't drop.
However, I do hope to see T-Mobile and eventually Verizon get the iPhone. Not that the service or the prices will be any better, but just to see Apple wipe the competition off the map.
It is interesting that since virtually ever country in the world (except the US) reduced the standard 17-year patent protection, in some cases to 3 years, on medications, the prices on ethical prescription medications has increased significantly. They had to. Otherwise, they couldn't get their return on investment. And not to worry, the American pharmaceutical industry was about to keep their price lower; afteral, we now have a global economy to address.
So it looks as if T-Mobile has a lot of work to do. A lot of towers to build (lease) and a lot of miles to cover. In the end, they will face the same issues that wireless has always been encumbered with, i.e., once you impede the line of sight, the system begins to become compromised. And as we know, even if we were standing a foot apart and facing each other, there is no guarantee that we will speak the same language.
TMUSA doesn't add much to the table except being able to say you have an additional carrier. They have the smallest national 3G network in the country and cede to regional affiliates in parts of the country. T-Mobile is the solution that makes the most if you want an easy solution. Verizion makes a lot more sense for profit.
Long term, Verizon would generate more profit, but in the short term, Apple would have to eat some substantial R&D costs, thus reducing the gross margin early on.
Changes to the iPhone to make it work on the T-Mobile USA network are minimal. The R&D costs have already been written off so gross margin would be almost as high. The way Apple has added additional carriers overseas (all of them GSM/UTMS carriers) indicates that Apple is likely to add T-Mobile USA. They have added many smaller 3G/UTMS carriers in other countries so the fact that T-Mobile USA is the fourth largest US mobile operator is a straw man argument.
It's likely that there's a CDMA iPhone prototype somewhere in a lab in Cupertino, probably dozens of them (including previous generation iPhones).
Whether or not Verizon is even willing to accept Apple's terms is questionable at best. Apple would probably need additional CDMA carriers to commit before taking on the task and expense of bringing a CDMA iPhone to steady state production quality.
Most people's basic understanding of cell phone carriers is that AT&T and T-Mobile use GSM while Verizon uses CDMA.
Then there is the issue of different GSM frequencies. The article claims that making an iPhone for T-Mobile is easier than making one for Verizon. And the sole reason provided is that T-Mobile just uses different GSM frequencies, but Verizon uses totally different technology, presumably referring to CDMA. The article does not take into account the fact that Verizon does sell phones which include SIM cards and are GSM capable.
So given the fact that Verizon does sell some GSM capable phones, why would it be any harder to make an iPhone for Verizon compared to T-Mobile? It's just the frequency, right? That is a perfectly reasonable question to ask. And if there are other underlying reasons, like does Verizon have any GSM towers, the article certainly did not address them. So there is no reason for you to get all bent out of shape with your snotty insulting comments.
The vast majority (probably 99.9%) of Verizon phones run CDMA only. Why? Because that is what their network is currently configured for. The phones that do GSM are only meant for use when traveling out of the country. Or for the low, low price of one arm and one leg they will rent you a gsm phone for use when traveling out of the country. Gsm phones can't operate on their network.
Even when buying up competitors they generally stuck with buying cdma based competitors like Alltel.
Until Verizon gets their LTE network rolled out, what's the point for Apple to move? They still make tons of money off the AT&T deal, and people are more than content to put up with the smaller 3g network.
CDMA does have some advantages, like better reception indoors, but CDMA needs to go away, I'd rather be on the same global standard as everyone else, and fully expect better things when LTE comes around (but not excited about the tiered data plans), SIM cards, etc.
I don't see the point of T-Mobile, yes, it's GSM, but it's a different frequency and a much, much smaller network.
T-Mobile has 30+ Million customers. Norway has only 4.8 Million people, yet Apple saw it good to support both carriers (Telenor, Netcom) in the country, even after first having exclusivity with just one of them.
Why would Apple not want to access 30 Million customers is beyond me, especially since T-Mobile customers are very loyal due to its high customer service and low prices.
It's possible this is easier.
Yup. Look at Google's Nexus One. They offered a TMO and AT&T versions. If Google can do it, then Apple can easily do it as well. It's the exclusivity contract that's holding this up...
If you think Apple is gonna waste their time coming up with a "new" iPhone to run on T-Mobiles' piss ass little network. WHY? there is no money to gain. Verizon is where it's at. 80+Million? Plus all the defectors from AT&T? Second largest carrier in the US? Why the hell would they go with T-Mobile. We all know what a greedy bitch Jobs is...he's all about the money...
There is money to gain if both Apple and TMO are seeing eye-to-eye and that's: Growth potential. Tmobile may be the smallest of the other US carriers, but people who are on ATT/VZ may be tempted to jump ship over to TMO where their rates are lower and offerings are more lenient.
More iPhones will be sold - Win for Apple
More customers to grow the carrier - Win for Tmobile
Both will grow in presence.
Why cater to existing customers, when everyone'sin the business to get new ones.
Yup. Look at Google's Nexus One. They offered a TMO and AT&T versions. If Google can do it, then Apple can easily do it as well. It's the exclusivity contract that's holding this up...
Contracts are rewritten all the time. Heck, that's what a mortgage refi is. We have no idea if the alleged original exclusivity term of five years is still in effect.
Based on Wired's exposé of Apple and AT&T's strained relations, it's entirely possible (maybe even likely) that the contract was changed to one-year exclusivity and extended on a yearly basis. We already know that AT&T stopped sharing subscription fees with Apple with the debut of the iPhone 3G and started paying a straight one-time subsidy. A major change in compensation terms likely required a new contract.
If AT&T's exclusivity is about/has expired, the thing that's holding up the T-Mobile iPhone is probably their tardy rollout of a 3G network.
Why does everyone think LTE is 4G? It isn't. It's 3.9G. Not a big deal, but just for clarification. Anyways, T-Mobile wouldn't be that hard since it's essentially the same chip, just swapping out frequencies. However I think Apple has their hands full and isn't really dedicating much time to T-Mobile.
Um, 4G simply means 4th Generation. So how do you figure LTE is not 4G? From what I gather, it's better than Wimax and Sprint is calling that 4G.
So given the fact that Verizon does sell some GSM capable phones, why would it be any harder to make an iPhone for Verizon compared to T-Mobile? It's just the frequency, right? That is a perfectly reasonable question to ask. And if there are other underlying reasons, like does Verizon have any GSM towers, the article certainly did not address them. So there is no reason for you to get all bent out of shape with your snotty insulting comments.
Um, so your argument is that could make a larger iPhone with worse power efficency and a higher coat by making it a World Mode phone? Of course they could, but you are asking the wrong question.
You should be asking: If a World Mode was so ideal why aren't all cellphones made this way? The answer should be obvious. The tradeoff is size, power and coat simply don't work out, and for a company like Apple, who wants one phone for an entire network type, you simply aren't going to get 4 GSM bands, 5 UMTS bands, and however many CDMA/CDMA2000 bands that are needed for a true World Mode phone.
My question to you is: Why is something so obvious to anyone who has frequented this forum as long as you habe being discussed at all in mid-2010? You should be well aware of pros and cons in all areas, to some degree, of 3GPP and 3GPP2 standards and technologies.