A former top FBI official has lost his libel lawsuit over a controversial book on the Oklahoma City bombing.
More coverage
An Oklahoma City judge on Thursday threw out the federal lawsuit against the book’s author and the wealthy Chicago businessman who financed the book’s research and writing.
Oliver “Buck” Revell, a retired FBI associate deputy director, complained that in the book, “The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror,” he was accused of allowing mass murder.
U.S. District Judge Robin J. Cauthron, however, ruled that Revell had not shown “by clear and convincing evidence, that (the) defendants knew of the falsity of the statements made, or that they recklessly disregarded the truth.”
At issue was an accusation in the book that Revell had advance knowledge of the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Scotland and personally pulled his son and daughter-in-law off the plane on the tarmac of the London airport.
Revell was in Washington, D.C., and he insists he didn’t know beforehand of the bomb on the plane.
His son, though briefly booked on the ill-fated flight, had left a week earlier. His daughter-in-law was in the United States.
The allegations, Revell said, “have caused me considerable embarrassment and anguish.”
“I’ve never been accused of being complicit in mass murder before,” said Revell, who once was the chief special agent for the FBI in Oklahoma City.
“I draw the line. I don’t mind criticism. People are entitled to their opinions, but I will not be accused of crimes, and I will defend myself using the law anytime anyone ... crosses that line.”
The book’s publisher, Feral House Inc., agreed in 1999 to destroy all copies because of the inaccuracies.
The author, David M. Hoffman, admitted last year he made mistakes on “details” and said he should have called Revell. But, Hoffman said, “I still hold to the essential facts of what I reported.”
Financial backer Alexander B. Magnus in March said the author made “a gross blunder” by not restricting the book to the Oklahoma City bombing.
Magnus said he was resentful Hoffman would “confuse people with nonsense like that when he should have been focusing only on the Murrah Building.”
Magnus began funding research into alternate theories into the 1995 attack to “see if we couldn’t contribute to preventing reoccurrences”
He disagrees with the official explanation for the destruction — a single truck bomb.
“It couldn’t be done with one bomb,” Magnus said. “There had to be additional cutting charges, demolition charges.”
Magnus said he paid more than $71,000 to Hoffman and also funded research led by former state Rep. Charles Key of Oklahoma City.
Hoffman, who now lives in California, was put on probation in 1999 after he pleaded guilty to misdemeanor jury tampering.
Hoffman got into trouble for sending his book to an alternate on the Oklahoma County grand jury investigating a series of conspiracy theories about the bombing.
Things that radiate in 3D space mostly* become weaker with the inverse squre of distance-- 1/r^2. 60 ft. vs. 400 ft. cannot be compared linearly. Foot for foot, the intensity reduces exponentially.
*I can't really think of things that don't. Things that do reduce with the inverse square: gravity, electric fields, and light intensity. I would imagine sound waves and/or explosions would work in the same manner.
too true... the inverse square law. we use it in photography quite a bit as you might imagine.
and why the distance from curb(truck) to front facade is crucial to any study(10 feet, not more)... if you input a greater distance(60ft, like that dumbass Partin)... the answer is skewed exponentially too.
though, i'm not sure robt. is wanting that kind of argument anymore. not knowing that i can build him a high-yield pipebomb with strictly low-yield materials. ahh, those accelerants! they do work well... if i were tim... i wouldn't stop at pure oxygen... oxy-acetelyne maybe.. easy to get... Av-gas...or dragfuel yup... or octane boost... also, real easy to get.
again, a well-educated guess... throw in an infinite amount of hard-to-reproduce but essential variables too... fer instance, where did the solid axle throw it's reflected shockwave? was it a knife-edged shockwave compared to the others that were surely not travelling outward hemispherically due to all the infinite shiz? also, how hard was the street? concrete? asphault or brick?
it was brick... i live here.. 'member? wink wink... and that'd reflect one helluva shockwave up, and out due to it's steep crown and being a harder surface, restrict the size of the crater too and god knows how much.... but you'd know this... it's common sense right? unless you neglected to control your testing procedures. ahem, partin me.
i like how the dumbass that wrote the book speculated about the camouflaged and booted foot?
and then we tested the DNA and linked it to one of our missing army gals Lakesha Levy... yup. i'd trust that sh!tstain with a $71k of my money and my word processor. get yer sillyass sued is what he'd do.
my bullshit detector pings very loudly when someone prefaces their arguments with the old "keep an open mind" statement. make note otay? snake oil salesmen and hucksters use it too much... so uh, ya might wanna edit that out next time.
don't have a scanner. You could come to my house... they're hanging on my darkroom wall. I keep hearing all this rot about why no ATF/FBI deaths... even from Rep. Key. it stymies me, because Key maintains that the ATF were assigned to offices in the Murrah when everyone including Key knows their offices AND the FBI offices are at 50 Penn Place. Always have been. Some 3 miles north of the Murrah... as for a link to our archives? well, you pay the fee and you're welcome to it.
You state that NO ATF officers were assingned to the Murrah Federal Building? Then please explain to me why the transcripts located on The Oklahoman Newpaper link YOU sent me show that the testimony of one Richard Williams, a GSA Employee who was in charge of all building maintenance systems gives a detailed outline of the blueprints of the Murrah building showing which floors house which offices, stated that the 13 ATF feild agents were located on the 9th floor? Is he lying to the court? Mind you this is during the trial and The Oklahoman Paper has all transcripts of the complete trial for all to see. As copy editor for said paper you should have known that ATF and DEA were both housed in this building. Maybe this was an oversight on your end perhaps? Please let me know about this and I am still waiting for the link to the letter that YOUR editor wrote in response to Charles Key asking for a stay of the demolition of the Murrah building for further investigation. Please don't try and say that the court transcripts on YOUR newpaper site are "bogus" , as this would lead to misdirection on YOUR newspaper's part. I await your reply.
my bullshit detector pings very loudly when someone prefaces their arguments with the old "keep an open mind" statement. make note otay? snake oil salesmen and hucksters use it too much... so uh, ya might wanna edit that out next time.
don't have a scanner. You could come to my house... they're hanging on my darkroom wall. I keep hearing all this rot about why no ATF/FBI deaths... even from Rep. Key. it stymies me, because Key maintains that the ATF were assigned to offices in the Murrah when everyone including Key knows their offices AND the FBI offices are at 50 Penn Place. Always have been. Some 3 miles north of the Murrah... as for a link to our archives? well, you pay the fee and you're welcome to it.
__________________________________________________ Littlecuss, How in the hell could a copy editor for a newspaper have no scanner?
O.....M......G :eek: little cuss doesn´t have a scanner. Coincidence? I think not. He must be a BlackOps agent planted by the government to control the renegade AI community and make sure that we don´t figure out the whole conspiracy complot the UN, the government and M$ is playing on us.
Or in other words: "oh, another crackpot conspiracy theorist at work"
<strong>O.....M......G :eek: little cuss doesn´t have a scanner. Coincidence? I think not. He must be a BlackOps agent planted by the government to control the renegade AI community and make sure that we don´t figure out the whole conspiracy complot the UN, the government and M$ is playing on us.
Or in other words: "oh, another crackpot conspiracy theorist at work" </strong><hr></blockquote>
AAHHAA, little cuss WAS the man on the grassy knoll in Dallas....
it's yer mystery. i've got my answers. why no ATF agents killed? maybe because they weren't there?
just a guess,
cuss
p.s. sorry about the bullsh!tting, but you shouldn't believe everything you read.
p.p.s. how many SS agents were killed? and DEA?
p.p.p.s. hey, give me some postulations about the warnings that were issued before the blast? let's us see you apply some occam's ointment this time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please see this link little cuss, you should know it because it is your newspaper.
<a href="http://www.newsok.com"; target="_blank">www.newsok.com</a> when this page comes up scroll down to the bottom and look to the left hand coulmn. Click on OKC Bombing, scroll down this page to Bombing Archives and select Trial Transcripts. Select Mcveigh Trial Transcripts from the upper left side. Scroll down to the bottom and select OKC BoMBING TRIAL TRANSCRIPT-04/25/97 16:23 CDT/CST. Scroll through this transcript (or read all if desired) to witness Richard E. Williams and read his floor by floor account of what departments are located on which floor. ATF is on the 9th floor.
As for the personal # of victims..as follows:
GSA- 2
DOD-5
FECU(CREDIT UNION)-18
DOT-11
ARMY RECRUITING-7
DEP. of AGRIC.-7
INSPECTOR GENERAL-1
CUSTOMS-2
MARINE CORP-2
HUD-34
DEA-6
SS-5
Please note I kept the count to employees only and did not include the day care children or visitors in this number. Again I have presented the fact that ATF agents were indeed officed here, a fact which you refuted without proof. The court transcripts , again were posted on YOUR papers website and are THE court transcripts available for the public under the FOIA(FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT). Now please tell me where I am dreaming this up and please do not reference THE book..your entire posting on the lawsuit on this book has no bearing whatsoever on the question I posed to you that still (last post to me) you did not answer. Since I am full of "snake oil" please let me in on what I have just posted that is on YOUR newspapers website that is false. I again await a direct answer to this valid question. Please try to address it directly and not veer off on another wild story or accusation of my posting. (unless you have proof in another website to refute your papers website). Thanks again
P.S. The BULLSHIT I read came from THE DAILY OKLAHOMAN, you know, the paper you are copy editor for.
P.P.S. as for the "advanced warning" you mention...haven't heard about that one..document source on this?
P.P.P.S. Please respond to my pleas for your insight and wisdom on this
<strong>okay gunshow boy... i'll repeat my answer again.
they were away from the office that morning. it's something field agents are proned to do.
and yes, they'd been warned, in fact... they'd received multiple warnings and not just that year, but every april 19 since waco.
now where's my happy meal?
cuss</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's GUNSHOW MAN to you
and for your insulance you will be relegated to a Filet O' Fish and a hot Diet Coke
I had not heard of these warnings before, so this is news to me. And yes, I think it is a "coincedence" that all 13 ATF officers were out of the office that morning. Suspicious as always, never yeilding to any "given" answers.
P.S. Even when I had my FFL(Federal Firearms License) I did not attend gun shows.
Comments
Ex-FBI official loses lawsuit over book
2001-05-07
By Nolan Clay
Staff Writer
A former top FBI official has lost his libel lawsuit over a controversial book on the Oklahoma City bombing.
More coverage
An Oklahoma City judge on Thursday threw out the federal lawsuit against the book’s author and the wealthy Chicago businessman who financed the book’s research and writing.
Oliver “Buck” Revell, a retired FBI associate deputy director, complained that in the book, “The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror,” he was accused of allowing mass murder.
U.S. District Judge Robin J. Cauthron, however, ruled that Revell had not shown “by clear and convincing evidence, that (the) defendants knew of the falsity of the statements made, or that they recklessly disregarded the truth.”
At issue was an accusation in the book that Revell had advance knowledge of the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Scotland and personally pulled his son and daughter-in-law off the plane on the tarmac of the London airport.
Revell was in Washington, D.C., and he insists he didn’t know beforehand of the bomb on the plane.
His son, though briefly booked on the ill-fated flight, had left a week earlier. His daughter-in-law was in the United States.
The allegations, Revell said, “have caused me considerable embarrassment and anguish.”
“I’ve never been accused of being complicit in mass murder before,” said Revell, who once was the chief special agent for the FBI in Oklahoma City.
“I draw the line. I don’t mind criticism. People are entitled to their opinions, but I will not be accused of crimes, and I will defend myself using the law anytime anyone ... crosses that line.”
The book’s publisher, Feral House Inc., agreed in 1999 to destroy all copies because of the inaccuracies.
The author, David M. Hoffman, admitted last year he made mistakes on “details” and said he should have called Revell. But, Hoffman said, “I still hold to the essential facts of what I reported.”
Financial backer Alexander B. Magnus in March said the author made “a gross blunder” by not restricting the book to the Oklahoma City bombing.
Magnus said he was resentful Hoffman would “confuse people with nonsense like that when he should have been focusing only on the Murrah Building.”
Magnus began funding research into alternate theories into the 1995 attack to “see if we couldn’t contribute to preventing reoccurrences”
He disagrees with the official explanation for the destruction — a single truck bomb.
“It couldn’t be done with one bomb,” Magnus said. “There had to be additional cutting charges, demolition charges.”
Magnus said he paid more than $71,000 to Hoffman and also funded research led by former state Rep. Charles Key of Oklahoma City.
Hoffman, who now lives in California, was put on probation in 1999 after he pleaded guilty to misdemeanor jury tampering.
Hoffman got into trouble for sending his book to an alternate on the Oklahoma County grand jury investigating a series of conspiracy theories about the bombing.
*I can't really think of things that don't. Things that do reduce with the inverse square: gravity, electric fields, and light intensity. I would imagine sound waves and/or explosions would work in the same manner.
[ 05-06-2002: Message edited by: Arakageeta ]</p>
and why the distance from curb(truck) to front facade is crucial to any study(10 feet, not more)... if you input a greater distance(60ft, like that dumbass Partin)... the answer is skewed exponentially too.
though, i'm not sure robt. is wanting that kind of argument anymore. not knowing that i can build him a high-yield pipebomb with strictly low-yield materials. ahh, those accelerants! they do work well... if i were tim... i wouldn't stop at pure oxygen... oxy-acetelyne maybe.. easy to get... Av-gas...or dragfuel yup... or octane boost... also, real easy to get.
it was brick... i live here.. 'member? wink wink... and that'd reflect one helluva shockwave up, and out due to it's steep crown and being a harder surface, restrict the size of the crater too and god knows how much.... but you'd know this... it's common sense right? unless you neglected to control your testing procedures. ahem, partin me.
i like how the dumbass that wrote the book speculated about the camouflaged and booted foot?
and then we tested the DNA and linked it to one of our missing army gals Lakesha Levy... yup. i'd trust that sh!tstain with a $71k of my money and my word processor. get yer sillyass sued is what he'd do.
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
cuss
where are you?
still 90% sure of yer 90% facts?
oh Sam... still fascinated by that book?
my bullshit detector pings very loudly when someone prefaces their arguments with the old "keep an open mind" statement. make note otay? snake oil salesmen and hucksters use it too much... so uh, ya might wanna edit that out next time.
open minds have little to do with science...
and i love guns,
cuss
[QB]sorry...
don't have a scanner. You could come to my house... they're hanging on my darkroom wall. I keep hearing all this rot about why no ATF/FBI deaths... even from Rep. Key. it stymies me, because Key maintains that the ATF were assigned to offices in the Murrah when everyone including Key knows their offices AND the FBI offices are at 50 Penn Place. Always have been. Some 3 miles north of the Murrah... as for a link to our archives? well, you pay the fee and you're welcome to it.
__________________________________________________ Littlecuss,
You state that NO ATF officers were assingned to the Murrah Federal Building? Then please explain to me why the transcripts located on The Oklahoman Newpaper link YOU sent me show that the testimony of one Richard Williams, a GSA Employee who was in charge of all building maintenance systems gives a detailed outline of the blueprints of the Murrah building showing which floors house which offices, stated that the 13 ATF feild agents were located on the 9th floor? Is he lying to the court? Mind you this is during the trial and The Oklahoman Paper has all transcripts of the complete trial for all to see. As copy editor for said paper you should have known that ATF and DEA were both housed in this building. Maybe this was an oversight on your end perhaps? Please let me know about this and I am still waiting for the link to the letter that YOUR editor wrote in response to Charles Key asking for a stay of the demolition of the Murrah building for further investigation. Please don't try and say that the court transcripts on YOUR newpaper site are "bogus" , as this would lead to misdirection on YOUR newspaper's part. I await your reply.
[ 05-08-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]
[ 05-08-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]
[ 05-08-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]</p>
<strong>btw robt...
my bullshit detector pings very loudly when someone prefaces their arguments with the old "keep an open mind" statement. make note otay? snake oil salesmen and hucksters use it too much... so uh, ya might wanna edit that out next time.
open minds have little to do with science...
and i love guns,
cuss</strong><hr></blockquote>
__________________________________________________
My bullshit detector pings even LOUDER when someone does not answer the directed question. See above post for complete details.
[ 05-08-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]</p>
[qb][QUOTE]Originally posted by little cuss:
[QB]sorry...
don't have a scanner. You could come to my house... they're hanging on my darkroom wall. I keep hearing all this rot about why no ATF/FBI deaths... even from Rep. Key. it stymies me, because Key maintains that the ATF were assigned to offices in the Murrah when everyone including Key knows their offices AND the FBI offices are at 50 Penn Place. Always have been. Some 3 miles north of the Murrah... as for a link to our archives? well, you pay the fee and you're welcome to it.
__________________________________________________ Littlecuss, How in the hell could a copy editor for a newspaper have no scanner?
[ 05-08-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]</p>
Or in other words: "oh, another crackpot conspiracy theorist at work"
<strong>O.....M......G :eek: little cuss doesn´t have a scanner. Coincidence? I think not. He must be a BlackOps agent planted by the government to control the renegade AI community and make sure that we don´t figure out the whole conspiracy complot the UN, the government and M$ is playing on us.
Or in other words: "oh, another crackpot conspiracy theorist at work"
AAHHAA, little cuss WAS the man on the grassy knoll in Dallas....
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
you've found me out... i'm a 15 year old living in connecticut.
sorry,
cuss
<strong>nope,
you've found me out... i'm a 15 year old living in connecticut.
sorry,
cuss</strong><hr></blockquote>
Great reply!!
it's yer mystery. i've got my answers. why no ATF agents killed? maybe because they weren't there?
just a guess,
cuss
p.s. sorry about the bullsh!tting, but you shouldn't believe everything you read.
p.p.s. how many SS agents were killed? and DEA?
p.p.p.s. hey, give me some postulations about the warnings that were issued before the blast? let's us see you apply some occam's ointment this time.
<strong>hey pal,
it's yer mystery. i've got my answers. why no ATF agents killed? maybe because they weren't there?
just a guess,
cuss
p.s. sorry about the bullsh!tting, but you shouldn't believe everything you read.
p.p.s. how many SS agents were killed? and DEA?
p.p.p.s. hey, give me some postulations about the warnings that were issued before the blast? let's us see you apply some occam's ointment this time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please see this link little cuss, you should know it because it is your newspaper.
<a href="http://www.newsok.com"; target="_blank">www.newsok.com</a> when this page comes up scroll down to the bottom and look to the left hand coulmn. Click on OKC Bombing, scroll down this page to Bombing Archives and select Trial Transcripts. Select Mcveigh Trial Transcripts from the upper left side. Scroll down to the bottom and select OKC BoMBING TRIAL TRANSCRIPT-04/25/97 16:23 CDT/CST. Scroll through this transcript (or read all if desired) to witness Richard E. Williams and read his floor by floor account of what departments are located on which floor. ATF is on the 9th floor.
As for the personal # of victims..as follows:
GSA- 2
DOD-5
FECU(CREDIT UNION)-18
DOT-11
ARMY RECRUITING-7
DEP. of AGRIC.-7
INSPECTOR GENERAL-1
CUSTOMS-2
MARINE CORP-2
HUD-34
DEA-6
SS-5
Please note I kept the count to employees only and did not include the day care children or visitors in this number. Again I have presented the fact that ATF agents were indeed officed here, a fact which you refuted without proof. The court transcripts , again were posted on YOUR papers website and are THE court transcripts available for the public under the FOIA(FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT). Now please tell me where I am dreaming this up and please do not reference THE book..your entire posting on the lawsuit on this book has no bearing whatsoever on the question I posed to you that still (last post to me) you did not answer. Since I am full of "snake oil" please let me in on what I have just posted that is on YOUR newspapers website that is false. I again await a direct answer to this valid question. Please try to address it directly and not veer off on another wild story or accusation of my posting. (unless you have proof in another website to refute your papers website). Thanks again
P.S. The BULLSHIT I read came from THE DAILY OKLAHOMAN, you know, the paper you are copy editor for.
P.P.S. as for the "advanced warning" you mention...haven't heard about that one..document source on this?
P.P.P.S. Please respond to my pleas for your insight and wisdom on this
[ 05-08-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]
[ 05-08-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]</p>
cuss
<strong>YOU GOTTA BUY ME DINNER FIRST!
cuss</strong><hr></blockquote>
I will definetly SUPERSIZE that McD's Happy Meal for an answer
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
they were away from the office that morning. it's something field agents are proned to do.
and yes, they'd been warned, in fact... they'd received multiple warnings and not just that year, but every april 19 since waco.
now where's my happy meal?
cuss
<strong>okay gunshow boy... i'll repeat my answer again.
they were away from the office that morning. it's something field agents are proned to do.
and yes, they'd been warned, in fact... they'd received multiple warnings and not just that year, but every april 19 since waco.
now where's my happy meal?
cuss</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's GUNSHOW MAN to you
I had not heard of these warnings before, so this is news to me. And yes, I think it is a "coincedence" that all 13 ATF officers were out of the office that morning.
P.S. Even when I had my FFL(Federal Firearms License) I did not attend gun shows.
[ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: Robertp ]</p>