I can't see how anyone can have any data security if jailbreaking is allowed.
Your Mac/PC isn't locked, yet is we all get by with the security that we can manage.
You are right that the current jailbreaks result in much of the Apple designed security to be broken. But that is much a result of Apple integrating their platform security to their platform locking. Surely there is a way for them to lock their platform down in such a way that unlocking the DRM doesn't fracture the device security.
My hope is that this would encourage Apple to 'curate' the App Store in a less heavy handed approach. One can manage allowed applications without also using it as a kludge.
This makes me proud to be a citizen of the US. I can't help but think apple is slowly loosing its hold and power after the death grip fiasco apple. Its like what Leia said to Tarkin: "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers". I love apple but they need to loosen up a bit when it comes to things like third party applications and I don't know...Flash.
This knee-jerk response tells more about you than about the regulation or about Apple. And, it does not simply target Apple. I do not think the regulation is even necessarily in contradiction with the policies of Apple. As noted by other posters also:
Assuming you do own an iPhone: don't go whining to Apple or come to the forums asking for sympathy or spewing self-righteous indignation if you jailbreak your iPhone and as a result it would lead to hackers the ability to steal your password and other personal information. Remember the iTunes stolen IDs fiasco? That is one possible consequence of jailbreaking.
Why yes I do own an i4. I also don't jailbreak because I don't have a need to. I just think it's funny that Apple goes on and on to try to make jailbreaking illegal on their phones and they get told to eat crap and die by the feds. Good for the government telling them that their crap does stink and they have to follow the rules like everyone else. This doesn't mean that Apple won't make it as hard as possible to JB and existing rules that void the warranty will still remain in place.
This seems like a very empty ruling on behalf of the government. So my carrier can still force me to use their network after my contract expires if I want to keep my phone UNLESS I jailbreak and unlock my phone and jump through all the hoops that go with that every time there's an update to iOS etc...?
Grow a pair of balls and mandate they be sold unlocked or, at minimum, force unlocking once a contract term is honored be it full term or paying the ECF.
But if unlocking is now okay, then jailbreaking just to use another carrier is no longer a valid excuse, no?
You have to jailbreak in order to unlock, do you not? So, if it is now legal to jailbreak and/or unlock, then you still need to jailbreak legally in order to unlock it legally. The excuse is still there because of the security model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
The reason jailbreaking is being allowed is because it's considered that if you legally obtain a program to run on your device, the government now thinks you should have that right to do so. The problem is that the majority of jailbreaking goes on specifically to enable illegal programs on the device (stolen software).
So because it can allow illegal activity, it should itself be an illegal activity? That makes no sense. You watch TV. TV's can be used to watch illegal material. Would you accept restrictions imposed on you by the vendor or cable company to determine what you can watch? Should iTunes be made illegal because it allows you to rip CD, which is the first step to piracy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
So now everyone will be allowed to jailbreak, but 90% of those doing it will still be breaking the law. However the new law is vague enough and difficult enough to prove or adjudicate, that they will never be arrested. This will enable more jailbreaking and thus more criminality, all under the auspices of stronger and more specific laws.
Greeeaaatt!
Do you remember in the 90s when it seemed that anyone with a pager or cellphone was a pimp or dealer? It was sort of a running joke. Imagine if someone had thought that was enough to criminalize cellphones.
Is T-Mobile significantly cheaper than ATT as far as plans?
I know people want to jailbreak for coverage reasons but I'm mainly interested in costs. Thanks
Based from the reports on some of the Android's, T-Mobile has cheaper plans especially for their higher end mobile plans. How long that will last, if they do get more customers is another story. AT&T for example no longer offers unlimited plans. Based from reports in other countries, that is also the case -- most do not have unlimited plans.
Also, what is the point of using T-Mobile, even if cheap, if you only get 2G(???), because the existing iPhones are not really compatible with the bandwidth used by T-Mobile?
I would love to see the faces of the folks who jailbreak, then try to go to the Genius Bar when something goes horribly wrong with their iPhone.
"But, but, but..... waddayamean, no warranty service?"
And yes, I know for some, jailbreaking will be a blessing (international travel, etc.), but you really need to know what you are doing. For the rest, keeping a closed system often means fewer issues.
Based from the reports on some of the Android's, T-Mobile has cheaper plans especially for their higher end mobile plans. How long that will last, if they do get more customers is another story. AT&T for example no longer offers unlimited plans. Based from reports in other countries, that is also the case -- most do not have unlimited plans.
Also, what is the point of using T-Mobile, even if cheap, if you only get 2G(???), because the existing iPhones are not really compatible with the bandwidth used by T-Mobile?
CGC
Great. Now you can go to T-Mobile with your iPhone. What a waste of time.
Jailbreaking has never been illegal... this new "rule" changes nothing.
Apple just doesn't support the phone if it's jailbroken.
Jailbreak is NOT the same as unlocked. An unlocked (with ATT's blessing) phone will still be supported by Apple. It would still be limited to authorized Apps through iTunes, but could use any SIM/carrier (GSM).
My original iPhone was unlocked from day one (but was unsubsidized)... I was kinda disappointed when the later models were locked to ATT, but understand that that was a side effect of the subsidized pricing. I'll have to look into getting the 3GS unlocked before my next trip to EHAM.
Your Mac/PC isn't locked, yet is we all get by with the security that we can manage.
You are right that the current jailbreaks result in much of the Apple designed security to be broken. But that is much a result of Apple integrating their platform security to their platform locking. Surely there is a way for them to lock their platform down in such a way that unlocking the DRM doesn't fracture the device security.
My hope is that this would encourage Apple to 'curate' the App Store in a less heavy handed approach. One can manage allowed applications without also using it as a kludge.
It won't. I suspect the percentage of iPhone buyers who are interested in this is has never been higher than the low single digits, and will not increase measurably. Outside of forums like this, I've never heard anyone say that they were unhappy with Apple's security model for the iPhone, let alone that they wanted to jailbreak their phone but were afraid to do so before because it's "illegal."
So because it can allow illegal activity, it should itself be an illegal activity? That makes no sense. You watch TV. TV's can be used to watch illegal material. Would you accept restrictions imposed on you by the vendor or cable company to determine what you can watch? Should iTunes be made illegal because it allows you to rip CD, which is the first step to piracy?
You had me at "Hello", but iTunes DRM-free purchases are a poor example of pirating these days.
Also, what do you think cable and satellite companies are doing when they set predetermined, exclusive packages when all you wanted was to watch one specific channel? I don't know about you, but I don't like to buy the extended package only to realize that the bulk of the channels offer infomercials for much of their schedule, meaning I am paying them to watch them sell me stuff? No thanks.
I just think it's funny that Apple goes on and on to try to make jailbreaking illegal on their phones and they get told to eat crap and die by the feds. Good for the government telling them that their crap does stink and they have to follow the rules like everyone else.
I wouldn't like the government telling me how to run my business. For some reason, I just can't get excited about this.
Why yes I do own an i4. I also don't jailbreak because I don't have a need to. I just think it's funny that Apple goes on and on to try to make jailbreaking illegal on their phones and they get told to eat crap and die by the feds. Good for the government telling them that their crap does stink and they have to follow the rules like everyone else. This doesn't mean that Apple won't make it as hard as possible to JB and existing rules that void the warranty will still remain in place.
From my understanding of Apple's policies, it is trying to protect its bottom line, including its liability to potential lawsuits because of potential consequences of jailbreaking.
Their rules made it clear that if you jailbreak -- accept the consquences.
In practice, as shown in the forum posts, some customers blame Apple, e.g., the stolen IDs fiasco, before they blame themselves. And such postings would then lead to Apple detractors to magnify the issues, as if it was really Apple that automatically triggered all such problems.
Unless that faint breeze I feel is the collective sigh of a million jailbreakers who can now release their clenched buttcheeks as they are no longer living in fear of the long hand of the Apple legal department coming to get them...
Jailbreaking has never been illegal... this new "rule" changes nothing.
Apple just doesn't support the phone if it's jailbroken.
Jailbreak is NOT the same as unlocked. An unlocked (with ATT's blessing) phone will still be supported by Apple. It would still be limited to authorized Apps through iTunes, but could use any SIM/carrier (GSM).
Didn't Apple go to court to argue that circumventing the security on the platform represented a violation of the DMCA?
The reason jailbreaking is being allowed is because it's considered that if you legally obtain a program to run on your device, the government now thinks you should have that right to do so. The problem is that the majority of jailbreaking goes on specifically to enable illegal programs on the device (stolen software).
So now everyone will be allowed to jailbreak, but 90% of those doing it will still be breaking the law. However the new law is vague enough and difficult enough to prove or adjudicate, that they will never be arrested. This will enable more jailbreaking and thus more criminality, all under the auspices of stronger and more specific laws.
Greeeaaatt!
Oh really? Most jailbreakers use illegally obtained software. 90% you say. Where is the data to back up that claim? Recently Jay Freeman in an interview stated about 6 million people (out of 100+ million iDevices) jailbreak the iOS based on Cydia stats. Show us where 90% of them use illegal software?
I wouldn't like the government telling me how to run my business. For some reason, I just can't get excited about this.
What's next?
There is a limit to what we can do. For example, we are free to do as we choose provided it does not lead to the detriment of the ability of others to make their own choice. It will lead to chaos, if each person is to be the sole judge of their own action, because different people have differing perspectives. That is why we have arbiters, and in a civilized society, that is the laws of the land, locally or nationally.
It won't. I suspect the percentage of iPhone buyers who are interested in this is has never been higher than the low single digits, and will not increase measurably. Outside of forums like this, I've never heard anyone say that they were unhappy with Apple's security model for the iPhone, let alone that they wanted to jailbreak their phone but were afraid to do so before because it's "illegal."
With it being legal, it might move out of the underground. Very few legit companies would be willing to market tools to aid in unlocking/jailbreaking without clear rules making it legal. the jailbreak/unlock 'market' seems similar to the market for modding game consoles. People will do it, but you don't see it be advertised at BestBuy or other major service retailers. That might change now. If it becomes legitimized by mainstream companies, you might see more people asking about it. That is where I would hope the pressure on Apple might come from.
or course no major electronic retailer would want to piss off Apple by offering such a service either...maybe t-mob might.
Comments
I can't see how anyone can have any data security if jailbreaking is allowed.
Your Mac/PC isn't locked, yet is we all get by with the security that we can manage.
You are right that the current jailbreaks result in much of the Apple designed security to be broken. But that is much a result of Apple integrating their platform security to their platform locking. Surely there is a way for them to lock their platform down in such a way that unlocking the DRM doesn't fracture the device security.
My hope is that this would encourage Apple to 'curate' the App Store in a less heavy handed approach. One can manage allowed applications without also using it as a kludge.
This knee-jerk response tells more about you than about the regulation or about Apple. And, it does not simply target Apple. I do not think the regulation is even necessarily in contradiction with the policies of Apple. As noted by other posters also:
Assuming you do own an iPhone: don't go whining to Apple or come to the forums asking for sympathy or spewing self-righteous indignation if you jailbreak your iPhone and as a result it would lead to hackers the ability to steal your password and other personal information. Remember the iTunes stolen IDs fiasco? That is one possible consequence of jailbreaking.
Why yes I do own an i4. I also don't jailbreak because I don't have a need to. I just think it's funny that Apple goes on and on to try to make jailbreaking illegal on their phones and they get told to eat crap and die by the feds. Good for the government telling them that their crap does stink and they have to follow the rules like everyone else. This doesn't mean that Apple won't make it as hard as possible to JB and existing rules that void the warranty will still remain in place.
Grow a pair of balls and mandate they be sold unlocked or, at minimum, force unlocking once a contract term is honored be it full term or paying the ECF.
But if unlocking is now okay, then jailbreaking just to use another carrier is no longer a valid excuse, no?
You have to jailbreak in order to unlock, do you not? So, if it is now legal to jailbreak and/or unlock, then you still need to jailbreak legally in order to unlock it legally. The excuse is still there because of the security model.
The reason jailbreaking is being allowed is because it's considered that if you legally obtain a program to run on your device, the government now thinks you should have that right to do so. The problem is that the majority of jailbreaking goes on specifically to enable illegal programs on the device (stolen software).
So because it can allow illegal activity, it should itself be an illegal activity? That makes no sense. You watch TV. TV's can be used to watch illegal material. Would you accept restrictions imposed on you by the vendor or cable company to determine what you can watch? Should iTunes be made illegal because it allows you to rip CD, which is the first step to piracy?
So now everyone will be allowed to jailbreak, but 90% of those doing it will still be breaking the law. However the new law is vague enough and difficult enough to prove or adjudicate, that they will never be arrested. This will enable more jailbreaking and thus more criminality, all under the auspices of stronger and more specific laws.
Greeeaaatt!
Do you remember in the 90s when it seemed that anyone with a pager or cellphone was a pimp or dealer? It was sort of a running joke. Imagine if someone had thought that was enough to criminalize cellphones.
Is T-Mobile significantly cheaper than ATT as far as plans?
I know people want to jailbreak for coverage reasons but I'm mainly interested in costs. Thanks
Based from the reports on some of the Android's, T-Mobile has cheaper plans especially for their higher end mobile plans. How long that will last, if they do get more customers is another story. AT&T for example no longer offers unlimited plans. Based from reports in other countries, that is also the case -- most do not have unlimited plans.
Also, what is the point of using T-Mobile, even if cheap, if you only get 2G(???), because the existing iPhones are not really compatible with the bandwidth used by T-Mobile?
CGC
No warranty service. That's what.
I would love to see the faces of the folks who jailbreak, then try to go to the Genius Bar when something goes horribly wrong with their iPhone.
"But, but, but..... waddayamean, no warranty service?"
And yes, I know for some, jailbreaking will be a blessing (international travel, etc.), but you really need to know what you are doing. For the rest, keeping a closed system often means fewer issues.
Based from the reports on some of the Android's, T-Mobile has cheaper plans especially for their higher end mobile plans. How long that will last, if they do get more customers is another story. AT&T for example no longer offers unlimited plans. Based from reports in other countries, that is also the case -- most do not have unlimited plans.
Also, what is the point of using T-Mobile, even if cheap, if you only get 2G(???), because the existing iPhones are not really compatible with the bandwidth used by T-Mobile?
CGC
Great. Now you can go to T-Mobile with your iPhone. What a waste of time.
Apple just doesn't support the phone if it's jailbroken.
Jailbreak is NOT the same as unlocked. An unlocked (with ATT's blessing) phone will still be supported by Apple. It would still be limited to authorized Apps through iTunes, but could use any SIM/carrier (GSM).
My original iPhone was unlocked from day one (but was unsubsidized)... I was kinda disappointed when the later models were locked to ATT, but understand that that was a side effect of the subsidized pricing. I'll have to look into getting the 3GS unlocked before my next trip to EHAM.
Your Mac/PC isn't locked, yet is we all get by with the security that we can manage.
You are right that the current jailbreaks result in much of the Apple designed security to be broken. But that is much a result of Apple integrating their platform security to their platform locking. Surely there is a way for them to lock their platform down in such a way that unlocking the DRM doesn't fracture the device security.
My hope is that this would encourage Apple to 'curate' the App Store in a less heavy handed approach. One can manage allowed applications without also using it as a kludge.
It won't. I suspect the percentage of iPhone buyers who are interested in this is has never been higher than the low single digits, and will not increase measurably. Outside of forums like this, I've never heard anyone say that they were unhappy with Apple's security model for the iPhone, let alone that they wanted to jailbreak their phone but were afraid to do so before because it's "illegal."
So because it can allow illegal activity, it should itself be an illegal activity? That makes no sense. You watch TV. TV's can be used to watch illegal material. Would you accept restrictions imposed on you by the vendor or cable company to determine what you can watch? Should iTunes be made illegal because it allows you to rip CD, which is the first step to piracy?
You had me at "Hello", but iTunes DRM-free purchases are a poor example of pirating these days.
Also, what do you think cable and satellite companies are doing when they set predetermined, exclusive packages when all you wanted was to watch one specific channel? I don't know about you, but I don't like to buy the extended package only to realize that the bulk of the channels offer infomercials for much of their schedule, meaning I am paying them to watch them sell me stuff? No thanks.
I just think it's funny that Apple goes on and on to try to make jailbreaking illegal on their phones and they get told to eat crap and die by the feds. Good for the government telling them that their crap does stink and they have to follow the rules like everyone else.
I wouldn't like the government telling me how to run my business. For some reason, I just can't get excited about this.
What's next?
Why yes I do own an i4. I also don't jailbreak because I don't have a need to. I just think it's funny that Apple goes on and on to try to make jailbreaking illegal on their phones and they get told to eat crap and die by the feds. Good for the government telling them that their crap does stink and they have to follow the rules like everyone else. This doesn't mean that Apple won't make it as hard as possible to JB and existing rules that void the warranty will still remain in place.
From my understanding of Apple's policies, it is trying to protect its bottom line, including its liability to potential lawsuits because of potential consequences of jailbreaking.
Their rules made it clear that if you jailbreak -- accept the consquences.
In practice, as shown in the forum posts, some customers blame Apple, e.g., the stolen IDs fiasco, before they blame themselves. And such postings would then lead to Apple detractors to magnify the issues, as if it was really Apple that automatically triggered all such problems.
CGC
Hahaha Apple. Now what?
Er, nothing?
Unless that faint breeze I feel is the collective sigh of a million jailbreakers who can now release their clenched buttcheeks as they are no longer living in fear of the long hand of the Apple legal department coming to get them...
Now what indeed.
Jailbreaking has never been illegal... this new "rule" changes nothing.
Apple just doesn't support the phone if it's jailbroken.
Jailbreak is NOT the same as unlocked. An unlocked (with ATT's blessing) phone will still be supported by Apple. It would still be limited to authorized Apps through iTunes, but could use any SIM/carrier (GSM).
Didn't Apple go to court to argue that circumventing the security on the platform represented a violation of the DMCA?
The reason jailbreaking is being allowed is because it's considered that if you legally obtain a program to run on your device, the government now thinks you should have that right to do so. The problem is that the majority of jailbreaking goes on specifically to enable illegal programs on the device (stolen software).
So now everyone will be allowed to jailbreak, but 90% of those doing it will still be breaking the law. However the new law is vague enough and difficult enough to prove or adjudicate, that they will never be arrested. This will enable more jailbreaking and thus more criminality, all under the auspices of stronger and more specific laws.
Greeeaaatt!
Oh really? Most jailbreakers use illegally obtained software. 90% you say. Where is the data to back up that claim? Recently Jay Freeman in an interview stated about 6 million people (out of 100+ million iDevices) jailbreak the iOS based on Cydia stats. Show us where 90% of them use illegal software?
I wouldn't like the government telling me how to run my business. For some reason, I just can't get excited about this.
What's next?
There is a limit to what we can do. For example, we are free to do as we choose provided it does not lead to the detriment of the ability of others to make their own choice. It will lead to chaos, if each person is to be the sole judge of their own action, because different people have differing perspectives. That is why we have arbiters, and in a civilized society, that is the laws of the land, locally or nationally.
CGC
It won't. I suspect the percentage of iPhone buyers who are interested in this is has never been higher than the low single digits, and will not increase measurably. Outside of forums like this, I've never heard anyone say that they were unhappy with Apple's security model for the iPhone, let alone that they wanted to jailbreak their phone but were afraid to do so before because it's "illegal."
With it being legal, it might move out of the underground. Very few legit companies would be willing to market tools to aid in unlocking/jailbreaking without clear rules making it legal. the jailbreak/unlock 'market' seems similar to the market for modding game consoles. People will do it, but you don't see it be advertised at BestBuy or other major service retailers. That might change now. If it becomes legitimized by mainstream companies, you might see more people asking about it. That is where I would hope the pressure on Apple might come from.
or course no major electronic retailer would want to piss off Apple by offering such a service either...maybe t-mob might.