US government legalizes iPhone 'jailbreaking,' unlocking

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  • Reply 41 of 219
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postulant View Post


    I wouldn't like the government telling me how to run my business. For some reason, I just can't get excited about this.



    What's next?



    As above, very likely, nothing.



    Without the government, nobody enjoys copyright and patent protections. Perhaps it would be best not to be automatically up in arms every time a small change is made in the laws or interpretations of the meaning of the laws.
  • Reply 42 of 219
    postulantpostulant Posts: 1,272member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post


    There is a limit to what we can do. For example, we are free to do as we choose provided it does not lead to the detriment of the ability of others to make their own choice. It will lead to chaos, if each person is to be the sole judge of their own action, because different people have differing perspectives. That is why we have arbiters, and in a civilized society, that is the laws of the land, locally or nationally.



    CGC



    Thanks for the lesson... Who knew?
  • Reply 43 of 219
    daharderdaharder Posts: 1,580member
    Bottom Line: Once the device is purchased, the purchaser should be free to do anything they desire with it... Including Jailbreaking.



    Next Up: The Apple Only Apps Store
  • Reply 44 of 219
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    With it being legal, it might move out of the underground. Very few legit companies would be willing to market tools to aid in unlocking/jailbreaking without clear rules making it legal. the jailbreak/unlock 'market' seems similar to the market for modding game consoles. People will do it, but you don't see it be advertised at BestBuy or other major service retailers. That might change now. If it becomes legitimized by mainstream companies, you might see more people asking about it. That is where I would hope the pressure on Apple might come from.



    or course no major electronic retailer would want to piss off Apple by offering such a service either...maybe t-mob might.



    Possibly, but I doubt it would make any significant difference in the numbers of people willing to take the risk of bypassing Apple's security model. The gain to offset the increased risk would have to be substantial, and I just don't see the gain. If you think Apple will be pressured into listing porn apps in the AppStore, I'd say guess again.
  • Reply 45 of 219
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justflybob View Post


    You had me at "Hello", but iTunes DRM-free purchases are a poor example of pirating these days.



    Also, what do you think cable and satellite companies are doing when they set predetermined, exclusive packages when all you wanted was to watch one specific channel? I don't know about you, but I don't like to buy the extended package only to realize that the bulk of the channels offer infomercials for much of their schedule, meaning I am paying them to watch them sell me stuff? No thanks.



    DRM free iTunes songs are relatively recent. But, I was not referring to purchased iTunes media but rather physical CDs that iTunes allows you to rip. And has done so for many years. I figure there must have been millions of songs on napster, limewire etc that were ripped by people using iTunes. That isn't enough to argue that using iTunes should have been criminal.



    I think the cable/sat companies are doing just what you describe. They are selling you canned packages. That doesn't prevent you from watching your own DVDs or switching providers or anything else you choose to watch on your TV...even though allowing you to do so also means you could potentially use it to watch illegal material. Not that they aren't trying with various DMCA enabled digital restrictions.
  • Reply 46 of 219
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    verizon





    9





    apple will seel 300000 on this news
  • Reply 47 of 219
    cgc0202cgc0202 Posts: 624member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    But if unlocking is now okay, then jailbreaking just to use another carrier is no longer a valid excuse, no?



    Personally, I think it's a bad move and the proof is in the text of the law itself.



    The reason jailbreaking is being allowed is because it's considered that if you legally obtain a program to run on your device, the government now thinks you should have that right to do so. The problem is that the majority of jailbreaking goes on specifically to enable illegal programs on the device (stolen software).



    So now everyone will be allowed to jailbreak, but 90% of those doing it will still be breaking the law. However the new law is vague enough and difficult enough to prove or adjudicate, that they will never be arrested. This will enable more jailbreaking and thus more criminality, all under the auspices of stronger and more specific laws.



    Greeeaaatt!



    Unless you know more about the law than was already posted in the mass media, it did not repeal the essence and foundations of copyright, trademark and patent laws.



    Thus, that one can do something, as a result of what is referred to here as jailbreaking, does not legalize what could be done.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    It's unclear from the information about this released so far, but I believe in the past, Apple has refused to provide warranty services to users who jailbreak, essentially arguing that the warranty terms have been violated. But it would seem now that they will won't be able to claim that the warranties have been voided. Still I don't think that Apple will have to support someone who hoses their iPhone with malware.



    I do not think the government can truly micromanage the law to also define the terms of agreement. It would be very difficult for the government for example to specify -- if jailbreaking results in the malfunction of the device, the vendor is obligated to cover the cost of repair.



    CGC
  • Reply 48 of 219
    msuberlymsuberly Posts: 234member
    Here is an excerpt of the Librarian of Congress' press release:



    (2) Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications, when they have been lawfully obtained, with computer programs on the telephone handset.



    (3) Computer programs, in the form of firmware or software, that enable used wireless telephone handsets to connect to a wireless telecommunications network, when circumvention is initiated by the owner of the copy of the computer program solely in order to connect to a wireless telecommunications network and access to the network is authorized by the operator of the network.



    The new rule does not protect those who jailbreak to run pirated programs, but rather lawfully obtained programs such as those on Cydia or homemade programs.



    Perhaps "jailbreak" isn't the correct term anymore, at least in the United States?!?
  • Reply 49 of 219
    Unlocking the US iPhone so you can use it on other US carriers is technologically limited to T-Mobile EDGE only. No 3G. Also, jailbreaking and unlocking is two different things.



    A big question is- will Apple be required to honor the warranty?
  • Reply 50 of 219
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,528member
    I hope this does not lead to a situation where app developers start adding onerous authentication schemes to make sure that each instance of the app has been legitimately purchased.
  • Reply 51 of 219
    ruel24ruel24 Posts: 432member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post


    Don't think the rules force apple to support iPhones that have been jail broken. The rules simply make it officially legal to jail break an iPhone.



    And of course in the U.S. Where will you go for a different carrier. Verizon? No. T-mobile? Maybe if the coverage doesn't suck.



    When both AT&T and Verizon are both on the LTE network, yes! We'll all have to wait for 4G iPhones and the 4G network to be up and running in most cities, but it will work.
  • Reply 52 of 219
    Jailbreaking the SOFTWARE voids your warranty, being SOFTWARE and not the HARDWARE, a simple restore in iTunes restores your SOFTWARE and also RESTORES your warranty. I've been told by the Genius bar in multiple stores before to restore my iPhone before they can take a look at it, which is exactly what should be done seeing as they can't be expected to know everything that can go on with a jailbroken device. I have been jailbreaking since the days of iOS 1.2 and have never had a problem being serviced by Apple.
  • Reply 53 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by quinney View Post


    I hope this does not lead to a situation where app developers start adding onerous authentication schemes to make sure that each instance of the app has been legitimately purchased.



    Funny enough, this is what most paid apps in Cydia have in place. I've been forced to have to pirate non appstore apps that I have previously purchased just so I can run them on my iPhone and iPad at the same time. I'm sure Apple can come up with a much better copy protection system, but it's easier for them to just try to block jailbreaking.
  • Reply 54 of 219
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Possibly, but I doubt it would make any significant difference in the numbers of people willing to take the risk of bypassing Apple's security model. The gain to offset the increased risk would have to be substantial, and I just don't see the gain. If you think Apple will be pressured into listing porn apps in the AppStore, I'd say guess again.



    No, I don't think they will be pressured to that extent. Other companies, perhaps google, might be willing to set up a 'legitimized' alternative app store where things like that would be accepted.



    My hope would be some of the more arbitrary rejection or rejections that were meant to target companies no longer in their good graces (GV). If the app meets their current opinion of what is socially acceptable and actually provides a useful service or feature to their users and if their users now can easily get the apps elsewhere, maybe, just maybe, they might loosen up, just a bit.
  • Reply 55 of 219
    diddydiddy Posts: 282member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vaporland View Post


    since we can now jailbreak iPhones, can we also run OSX on a Dell or HP computer without fear of prosecution, if we've bought a legal copy of OSX?





    No, creating derivative works (which is what hackintoshing is) is still not allowed and has nothing to do with this case.
  • Reply 56 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by quinney View Post


    I hope this does not lead to a situation where app developers start adding onerous authentication schemes to make sure that each instance of the app has been legitimately purchased.



    It probably will.



    Lets not be naive about this. To the extent that this changes anything at all (I would argue things will stay the same to a large degree), it's a change to the worse for everyone except the jailbreaker looking for free programs. Virtually all the effects of this decision will be negative to the end user with one exception.



    Either someone will set up a legal second store with the "morally questionable" (girls in bikinis) apps, or Apple will have to relent on their Disney-eque fantasy and allow them in the regular store.



    AFAIKS every single other aspect of jailbreaks being legal is a net loss for the average consumer.



    (note I'm not talking about unlocking which is a good thing).
  • Reply 57 of 219
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vaporland View Post


    since we can now jailbreak iPhones, can we also run OSX on a Dell or HP computer without fear of prosecution, if we've bought a legal copy of OSX?



    Fear of prosecution?



    How ignorant are you?



    Apple doesn't care if you want to run OS X on a Dell, HP or any other PC. They do care and will seek suit if you try to sell the service or finished product. That you can't do.



    You could always jailbreak your iPhones. Just that Apple will not and does not have to provide support or service if you bring in a jailbroken phone. Now that may be ok for those that realize that an iOS upgrade won't be as simple as it is now. Just don't think that the iTunes store should be part of your begging.



    Keep in mind, the new exemption which supposedly will "allow owners of used cell phones to break access controls on their phones in order to switch wireless carrier," begs the question does that mean you have to complete or buy out your AT&T contract to get the exemption?



    Note that there is no law that forces Apple to unlock the phone for you, as well as, service and support an unlocked phone or any of the OS upgrades or apps you got via the iTunes store.



    So if you are so-inclined to bypass the conditions that Apple has imposed, go for it. Some will do quite well. So they think. But don't come here and rant or try to blame Apple or its carriers for an issue that you caused by ignorantly considering your right of (perpetual) ownership.



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  • Reply 58 of 219
    This should sell a few more iPods/iPhones and eventually iPads
  • Reply 59 of 219
    cgc0202cgc0202 Posts: 624member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postulant View Post


    Thanks for the lesson... Who knew?



    In reality we are so imprisoned by our own point of view that we sometimes have difficulty understanding the limits of what we can and cannot do. In the US for example, religious zealots have a view of what is right and wrong, and consider it their choice and right to ensure that their view must prevail irrespective of the choices and differeng views of others. If that will not suffice, some extremist even went to the extent of murdering those who will not adhere to what they believe in.



    That is an extreme example. I am sure you can think of more nuanced situations and cases where government has to define the parameters of what people can and cannot do.



    That the government, as it works usually, may be usurped by the powerful to their advantage and the detriment of many in society is one reason why some people mistrust the role of government in our lives.



    CGC
  • Reply 60 of 219
    justflybobjustflybob Posts: 1,337member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by quinney View Post


    I hope this does not lead to a situation where app developers start adding onerous authentication schemes to make sure that each instance of the app has been legitimately purchased.



    That's a very good question.
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