Android phones as a collective have already outsold the iPhone and will continue to do so.. I doubt a single Android model can outsell the iPhone though. This is much like PCs, Windows PCs as a collective have and always will outsell the Macs. The only way Apple will ever outsell a collective competition is if they license iOS and OSX for use on other hardware which we all know will not happen.
Do you have any numbers to back that up?
Going by the numbers in this article, manufacturers not named Motorola, or HTC, need to have sold 1.1mn phones in Q2 (the weakest quarter the iPhone will probably ever have, considering the iPhone 4 leak) to even equal the iPhone.
I think of all the reports, there was 1 report about iPhones falling behind Android, but that was an AdMob (Google) report, right after the release of iAds, based on some rather fishy numbers (since the next report iPhone was way back up).
This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months. Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales. You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.
I hope you are not an attorney...because you would probably be relegated to second rate ambulance chaser based on on your ability to reason your point with facts.
I guess you just conveniently ignored Apples quarterly Mac sales numbers. Or the fact that Mac's only had 2% of the market a few years ago and now has "struggled" as you say to 5%?
Whatever professor. Comparing Android to iOS is like comparing Windows to OS X. It is a stupid comparison.
Motorola's quarterly sales of 8.3 million phones is still behind Apple's 8.4 million units in the second calendar quarter of 2010, which ended in June. However, only 2.7 million of Motorola's sales were smartphones, meaning Apple sold more than three times as many smartphones as the leading Android maker.
This is the only relevant paragraph. 2.7M versus 8.4M.
Actually, there is a relevance to those figures: they show that a significant percentage of the market doesn't care about smartphones at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando
Comparing a single manufacturer or a single product is silly. We should be comparing platforms: Android v iOS.
Precisely, but that's not the sort of thing that gets much play in an Apple fan forum:
On strengths of Linux, Android will win mobile contest
And in response to Apple's unprecedented closure of their mobile OS:
Quote:
Developers migrate from iPhone to Android in droves
Developers are flocking to Android in their droves, making it the most used platform for mobile developers in 2010, according to a report by Vision Mobile.
The study, entitled Mobile Developer Economics 2010 and Beyond, surveyed over 400 developers worldwide working on eight different platforms: Apple's iOS for the iPhone, Google's Android, Nokia's Symbian, BlackBerry, Java ME, Windows Phone, Flash Lite, and mobile web.
The research found that the Android and iPhone platforms are, as one would expect, top of the list for developer mindshare, taking over from Symbian and Java ME, which previously held the crown in 2008, but Symbian still remains a contender in terms of sheer volume and market share.
The big twist, however, is that Android has outdone the iPhone in terms of developer experience. 60 percent of the developers asked had been or are working on Android projects, with the iPhone and Jave ME following behind with roughly 50 percent each. This may come as a surprise to Apple enthusiasts who have been citing the App Store as being significantly larger than that of the Android Market, so suggesting that the iPhone was the favourite toy as far as developers were concerned.
This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months. Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales. You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.
Truth? Based on what?
The only 'truth' that says that Android is outselling iPhone is a single Google quote that they were activating new phones at the rate of 160,000 per day. No mention of how that was determined. Did they pick the best day ever and extrapolate? The best hour? The best minute?
So far, every independent analysis says that the iPhone is outselling any single Android phone by a large margin - and still outselling all Android phones together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
No one is comparing "one phone to one phone?, they are comparing vendor to vendor, the only real measure that makes sense here.
That's not even close to being true. The comparison depends greatly on what you're trying to accomplish.
If you're looking for market success by products, you compare the iPhone to each individual competitor's phone.
If you're looking at where to invest your IRA, you look at profits, growth rates, and a variety of other factors.
If you're a developer, you look at total number of systems that run each OS (that is, all Android devices vs all iOS devices). Or, even more precisely, revenues for software sales for each platform.
If you're a case manufacturer, you look at unit sales-and the relative frequency that each phone owner buys cases.
And so on. There is no one right comparison - you have to first define the question before finding the 'right' answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll
On strengths of Linux, Android will win mobile contest
This is hilarious. None of those begin to provide any reputable evidence that Android outsells iPhone.
The closest is a single claim by Google (not since repeated) that they were activating at the rate 160,000 phones per day. Is that a peak value? An average value? How long was that rate sustained? There is absolutely nothing there that allows a comparison. After all, at the peak, Apple was probably activating at a rate of 2 million iPhones per day.
I also like the way you distort things to satisfy your agenda. Jobs never said that Android outsells iPhone. He gave an iPhone sales figure. You used your meaningless number to compare to Apple's real number and reached that conclusion yourself.
I really like the one listing developer interest. Who in the world cares how many developers there are on Android? In terms of apps available, there are 3 times as many on the iPhone - and that's even before you consider that not all Android apps run on all devices or the fact that many Android apps were rejected by Apple for being junk (or, of course, the number of Android apps that will send your personal data to China). Granted, there are a lot of hobbyists who are interested in Android - most of them because they're not capable of doing what it takes to produce a quality app. If you want to look at what's of interest to real developers, look at revenues. Apple has > 2/3 of ALL smart phone app revenues. That's what will interest real developers.
And in response to Apple's unprecedented closure of their mobile OS:
Quote:
Developers migrate from iPhone to Android in droves
Developers are flocking to Android in their droves, making it the most used platform for mobile developers in 2010, according to a report by Vision Mobile.
The study, entitled Mobile Developer Economics 2010 and Beyond, surveyed over 400 developers worldwide working on eight different platforms: Apple's iOS for the iPhone, Google's Android, Nokia's Symbian, BlackBerry, Java ME, Windows Phone, Flash Lite, and mobile web.
The research found that the Android and iPhone platforms are, as one would expect, top of the list for developer mindshare, taking over from Symbian and Java ME, which previously held the crown in 2008, but Symbian still remains a contender in terms of sheer volume and market share.
The big twist, however, is that Android has outdone the iPhone in terms of developer experience. 60 percent of the developers asked had been or are working on Android projects, with the iPhone and Jave ME following behind with roughly 50 percent each. This may come as a surprise to Apple enthusiasts who have been citing the App Store as being significantly larger than that of the Android Market, so suggesting that the iPhone was the favourite toy as far as developers were concerned.
You know I don't look at that survey and think that "developers are migrating from iPhone to Android in droves". Not to say they aren't moving, but I don't see evidence of that in the survey. My impressions...
Both Android and iOS have healthy support from developers and both App stores will continue to improve.
Symbian and BlackBerry have a surprising amount of support. This looks good for the new BlackBerry OS (v6????)
Windows Phone has a shocking amount of support if we make the reasonable assumption that a large number of that 40% are/were working on projects for an OS that doesn't exist yet.
HP/Palm are in big trouble. Assuming we may see a Palm based slate before Christmas and a PalmOS phone next year HP need to start working their tails off to get developer support. The PalmOS is great, but they need developer support to succeed. It would be sad to see such a great platform fall again.
The only 'truth' that says that Android is outselling iPhone is a single Google quote that they were activating new phones at the rate of 160,000 per day. No mention of how that was determined. Did they pick the best day ever and extrapolate? The best hour? The best minute?
So far, every independent analysis says that the iPhone is outselling any single Android phone by a large margin - and still outselling all Android phones together.
It's not a single quote. At every big press conference, they announce the rolling average of their sales. They pull this data by looking at their month over month growth and averaging it out by days. There could be days where they sold only 120k, but there are also days where they activated over 200k
If it was even a HINTED at lie, blogs like this one would be all over it posting counter arguments. but they don't. Know why?
Because independent data shows android growing at an incredible rate. Where are your "independent analysis" of the data? Because Commscore, admob impressions, pretty much EVERY press release looking at marketshare shows android growing at a rate faster than iOS, for the past three quarters. If you have alternative data, provide it.
Quote:
That's not even close to being true. The comparison depends greatly on what you're trying to accomplish.
If you're looking for market success by products, you compare the iPhone to each individual competitor's phone.
Wrong. the iPhone is a OS, it's always been about the OS (look at ipod touch, ipad, etc). You CANNOT compare iOS to a single piece of hardware that happens to be running android. Android devices are NOT about having a single device that will sell as many devices as the iphone. Even motorola (what this article focuses on) has several android devices, so even the author knows better than that.
Quote:
If you're looking at where to invest your IRA, you look at profits, growth rates, and a variety of other factors.
If you're a developer, you look at total number of systems that run each OS (that is, all Android devices vs all iOS devices). Or, even more precisely, revenues for software sales for each platform.
You almost have a point here.
The iphone gets its profits from two different areas. The first are the Draconian arrangements with carriers. They get these in part because up until now, the iphone was the BEST way to get new people interested in the smartphone market (and thus highly lucrative data contracts) Yes, Nokia, BBerry, etc are nice and all for business users, but if you want a new market, the only choice was iOS. This isn't the case anymore. With android 2.x, and custom overlays like HTC Sense (and yes, some people even like Motoblur.. I don't get it either) android is starting to attract some of that SAME demographic (new smartphone users), without any of the crazy strings, fees, and requirements that apple has with carriers. As android continues to grow, it's going to be harder and harder for Apple to maintain those agreements. Carriers won't want to drop the iphone, but they're not going to just accept marching orders from cupertino uncontested any more.
The second is the app store, which, you're correct, has significantly more monetization opportunities for developers over the android market right now. Part of this was user base (see above) the other part is the marketplace itself, and lastly the android market doesn't have the embedded marketing system that the iPhone does thanks to itunes.
As for marketshare, that's changing rapidly. The number of users who have exposure to the android market has increased dramatically over the past year, and at present shows no signs of stopping.
The marketplace is a mess right now, but android users/developers know it (check out appbrain, a free website that makes it MUCH easier to browse the marketplace), and more importantly Google knows it as well. Everything leaked about 3.0/Gingerbread seems to point to a User-experience focused update. Do you have any doubts that the market won't be part of this? At the moment, it's a mess, but if that changes.. do you really think developers won't take notice? They're already interested in android, and countless Independence reports show that they believe android will be the future. And Google is making active steps to try and make paid apps more secure (see their release this week)
And lastly, you have the itunes ecosystem. This one will be the hardest to overcome because it has the better part of a decade of marketing behind it. But google is looking at this as well. They just updated their developer agreement, pointing to allowing carrier billing, which is a lot more straight forward for most consumers. They also demoed in-market music purchases. They know that to make this work, they need to have a viable gift card system.
So yes, apple still has the upper hand in revenue, but a GOOD chunk of their advantage is based on factors that are quickly changing.
Quote:
If you're a case manufacturer, you look at unit sales-and the relative frequency that each phone owner buys cases.
True, but there is ALWAYS a market for cases. Sure, iSkin might not like all the different products on the market, but other companies have made cases for hundreds of phones before.
Quote:
This is hilarious. None of those begin to provide any reputable evidence that Android outsells iPhone.
Please link a single article from a reputable, independent, source that has hard evidence to refute Google, Admob, Commscore, etc. claims about android sales. Do you honestly think that if they were lying about their activations someone wouldn't call them out on it?
Quote:
The closest is a single claim by Google (not since repeated) that they were activating at the rate 160,000 phones per day. Is that a peak value? An average value? How long was that rate sustained? There is absolutely nothing there that allows a comparison. After all, at the peak, Apple was probably activating at a rate of 2 million iPhones per day.
They've made several announcements, the last few (over a period of at least 2.5 months) had the 160k a day figure. Before that it was 120k, then 100k, then 60k all the way back at the holidays. It's a ROLLING AVERAGE just like Google said it was, and just like Commscore and several other outlets have independently confirmed.
And the iphone didn't sell 2million units a day for any average. the Iphone4 launch, per Apple, was the best iphone launch ever. in 22 days they sold a bit over 3 million units. That is around 136k iphone 4 activations a day. Even factoring in iphone 3gs, ipad, and ipod touch sales, do you REALLY think that you could get a number even CLOSE to 1 million activations a day, let alone the 2million you're claiming? If you add all iOS devices up, does iOS still beat android? Maybe, but the number is very close, and in smartphone marketshare (what pretty much everyone, including developers, look at) android has passed them.
Quote:
I also like the way you distort things to satisfy your agenda. Jobs never said that Android outsells iPhone. He gave an iPhone sales figure. You used your meaningless number to compare to Apple's real number and reached that conclusion yourself.
So you know the sales figure number, but you ignored it in the paragraph above? Who's manipulating data again?
The guy you're responding to didn't come up with that number, several media outlets did, and NO ONE contested the android numbers. Again, there are a lot of people who have no love for google, and a lot of blogs like this one that have a vested interest in proving claims like those wrong, and yet none of them did. Ask yourself why.
Quote:
I really like the one listing developer interest. Who in the world cares how many developers there are on Android? In terms of apps available, there are 3 times as many on the iPhone - and that's even before you consider that not all Android apps run on all devices or the fact that many Android apps were rejected by Apple for being junk (or, of course, the number of Android apps that will send your personal data to China). Granted, there are a lot of hobbyists who are interested in Android - most of them because they're not capable of doing what it takes to produce a quality app. If you want to look at what's of interest to real developers, look at revenues. Apple has > 2/3 of ALL smart phone app revenues. That's what will interest real developers.
They have the revenue because of their monetization system, something that can EASILY and quickly change. (see above). Quality developers stick with apple because atm, it's the best way for them to get their applications noticed and for them to make some money. the MOMENT that changes, do you really think that they won't start developing for other operating systems?
Developers don't share your brand loyalty. They'll go to wherever gives them the highest chance at revenue. At the moment, that's Apple. That doesn't mean it will always BE Apple.
That's not even close to being true. The comparison depends greatly on what you're trying to accomplish.
In this article the comparison is Motorola to Apple?s smartphone sales. Nothing about OS marketshare or IRAs (not sure how that got mentioned) should be part of the comparison. This is one vendor to one vendor.
It is one vendor to one vendor, but the author is trying to make some pretty crazy claims with it.
First off, since when is Motorola the "number one" android provider? In the US they might be, but certainly not abroad. That title goes to HTC, not Motorola.
Secondly, the author tried using the data about motorola to make a comment about how android isn't selling as well for hardware makers as iOS is, and it's not a fair comparison there. First off, Apple doesn't have anyone to compete with when it comes to iOS sales. if you have an iOS device, apple sold it. If someone is looking at android, they are looking at HTC, Motorola, Samsung, etc. and that's after they decided on android. This is why comparing a single hardware maker (or device) to Apple/iOS will not work.
It's like saying windows is failing because apple sold more macbooks than alienware last quarter.
In fact, scrub that. I'm going to steal that line. Thanks!
Absolutely, It's actually one of me Dad's sayings! He was a former CEO of an International company and it was one of his favorite lines...in private company of course!
It's not a single quote. At every big press conference, they announce the rolling average of their sales. They pull this data by looking at their month over month growth and averaging it out by days. There could be days where they sold only 120k, but there are also days where they activated over 200k
If it was even a HINTED at lie, blogs like this one would be all over it posting counter arguments. but they don't. Know why?
Because independent data shows android growing at an incredible rate. Where are your "independent analysis" of the data? Because Commscore, admob impressions, pretty much EVERY press release looking at marketshare shows android growing at a rate faster than iOS, for the past three quarters. If you have alternative data, provide it.
Wrong. the iPhone is a OS, it's always been about the OS (look at ipod touch, ipad, etc). You CANNOT compare iOS to a single piece of hardware that happens to be running android. Android devices are NOT about having a single device that will sell as many devices as the iphone. Even motorola (what this article focuses on) has several android devices, so even the author knows better than that.
You almost have a point here.
The iphone gets its profits from two different areas. The first are the Draconian arrangements with carriers. They get these in part because up until now, the iphone was the BEST way to get new people interested in the smartphone market (and thus highly lucrative data contracts) Yes, Nokia, BBerry, etc are nice and all for business users, but if you want a new market, the only choice was iOS. This isn't the case anymore. With android 2.x, and custom overlays like HTC Sense (and yes, some people even like Motoblur.. I don't get it either) android is starting to attract some of that SAME demographic (new smartphone users), without any of the crazy strings, fees, and requirements that apple has with carriers. As android continues to grow, it's going to be harder and harder for Apple to maintain those agreements. Carriers won't want to drop the iphone, but they're not going to just accept marching orders from cupertino uncontested any more.
The second is the app store, which, you're correct, has significantly more monetization opportunities for developers over the android market right now. Part of this was user base (see above) the other part is the marketplace itself, and lastly the android market doesn't have the embedded marketing system that the iPhone does thanks to itunes.
As for marketshare, that's changing rapidly. The number of users who have exposure to the android market has increased dramatically over the past year, and at present shows no signs of stopping.
The marketplace is a mess right now, but android users/developers know it (check out appbrain, a free website that makes it MUCH easier to browse the marketplace), and more importantly Google knows it as well. Everything leaked about 3.0/Gingerbread seems to point to a User-experience focused update. Do you have any doubts that the market won't be part of this? At the moment, it's a mess, but if that changes.. do you really think developers won't take notice? They're already interested in android, and countless Independence reports show that they believe android will be the future. And Google is making active steps to try and make paid apps more secure (see their release this week)
And lastly, you have the itunes ecosystem. This one will be the hardest to overcome because it has the better part of a decade of marketing behind it. But google is looking at this as well. They just updated their developer agreement, pointing to allowing carrier billing, which is a lot more straight forward for most consumers. They also demoed in-market music purchases. They know that to make this work, they need to have a viable gift card system.
So yes, apple still has the upper hand in revenue, but a GOOD chunk of their advantage is based on factors that are quickly changing.
True, but there is ALWAYS a market for cases. Sure, iSkin might not like all the different products on the market, but other companies have made cases for hundreds of phones before.
Please link a single article from a reputable, independent, source that has hard evidence to refute Google, Admob, Commscore, etc. claims about android sales. Do you honestly think that if they were lying about their activations someone wouldn't call them out on it?
They've made several announcements, the last few (over a period of at least 2.5 months) had the 160k a day figure. Before that it was 120k, then 100k, then 60k all the way back at the holidays. It's a ROLLING AVERAGE just like Google said it was, and just like Commscore and several other outlets have independently confirmed.
And the iphone didn't sell 2million units a day for any average. the Iphone4 launch, per Apple, was the best iphone launch ever. in 22 days they sold a bit over 3 million units. That is around 136k iphone 4 activations a day. Even factoring in iphone 3gs, ipad, and ipod touch sales, do you REALLY think that you could get a number even CLOSE to 1 million activations a day, let alone the 2million you're claiming? If you add all iOS devices up, does iOS still beat android? Maybe, but the number is very close, and in smartphone marketshare (what pretty much everyone, including developers, look at) android has passed them.
So you know the sales figure number, but you ignored it in the paragraph above? Who's manipulating data again?
The guy you're responding to didn't come up with that number, several media outlets did, and NO ONE contested the android numbers. Again, there are a lot of people who have no love for google, and a lot of blogs like this one that have a vested interest in proving claims like those wrong, and yet none of them did. Ask yourself why.
They have the revenue because of their monetization system, something that can EASILY and quickly change. (see above). Quality developers stick with apple because atm, it's the best way for them to get their applications noticed and for them to make some money. the MOMENT that changes, do you really think that they won't start developing for other operating systems?
Developers don't share your brand loyalty. They'll go to wherever gives them the highest chance at revenue. At the moment, that's Apple. That doesn't mean it will always BE Apple.
That 160,000 phones a day is proven wrong from these numbers. At a rate of 160,000 a day they would sell about 14.4 million android based phones every 3 months, but the two biggest android phone makers together only sold some where south of 7.2 million. the reason that it is less then 7.2 is because both companies make smartphones without android even if it is a small number. Still there is no way samsung, lg and all the other companies together are making 7+ million android based phones every 3 months.
That 160,000 phones a day is proven wrong from these numbers. At a rate of 160,000 a day they would sell about 14.4 million android based phones every 3 months, but the two biggest android phone makers together only sold some where south of 7.2 million. the reason that it is less then 7.2 is because both companies make smartphones without android even if it is a small number. Still there is no way samsung, lg and all the other companies together are making 7+ million android based phones every 3 months.
What phones? The HD2? a few here and there? For both companies, an overwhelming majority of their smartphone sales are android.
2.7 million from Motorola. 5.4million From HTC That's 8.4million. And this is their Q2 results which are January to March (before the 160k a day claim) Back then the number was reported as 60l, 100k, and 120k. EDIT: This is going off of normal Fiscal Earnings reports. If they use something other than US standard, numbers could be off.
Short Version: Google is talking Q3/Q4 numbers, This article (and Motorola and HTC) are reporting Q2
Are the people who always bring up the Mac vs. Windows history just completely oblivious to that somewhat successful Apple device called the iPod (which, according to their logic, should have been crushed by Microsoft and its entourage who produced cheaper players with more features) or are they intentionally revising history to convince themselves that Apple is DOOMED? It's as if they were asleep for the last ten years, which would also explain why they don't realize that the Mac is a success for Apple.
The other mistake is that they believe all developers care about is marketshare, which is ridiculously false. If marketshare was all that mattered, then nobody would develop games for the 360 or PS3 since the Wii has sold much more! According to fanboys, Android is CRUSHING the iPhone, yet developers aren't leaving. Is it because they're stupid and hate money or is it perhaps because despite their marketshare, Android isn't as lucrative a platform?
Android users are cheap Penny Pinching FreeLoaders. THEY DONT BUY APPS.
Good luck wasting your time developing and selling your apps to these people.
Actually they do buy apps. The thing holding android app purchases back is the general clutter that is the market (finding a quality app is a bit hard unless you know EXACTLY what you're looking for). Do any search for paid apps, and a good chunk of them are junk, meaning that people will have a high chance of ignoring the good ones.
Then add into it the issue with Google Checkout. With iTunes you have these things called Gift cards (and we all know it's easier spending someone elses money) if you buy something on android, it's coming right from your credit card.
Yes, there are cheap android owners who refuse to pay for apps, but that's not all of them. There are issues with the market that need (and most likely are) to be addressed before you start looking at just the user. I know a TON of people with iphones/ipod touches that haven't spent more than $3 on apps and they've had the device for years. People are cheap. The issue for platform developers is to find a way to make it so that the people who want to spend money, can.
Are the people who always bring up the Mac vs. Windows history just completely oblivious to that somewhat successful Apple device called the iPod (which, according to their logic, should have been crushed by Microsoft and its entourage who produced cheaper players with more features) or are they intentionally revising history to convince themselves that Apple is DOOMED? It's as if they were asleep for the last ten years, which would also explain why they don't realize that the Mac is a success for Apple.
The other mistake is that they believe all developers care about is marketshare, which is ridiculously false. If marketshare was all that mattered, then nobody would develop games for the 360 or PS3 since the Wii has sold much more! According to fanboys, Android is CRUSHING the iPhone, yet developers aren't leaving. Is it because they're stupid and hate money or is it perhaps because despite their marketshare, Android isn't as lucrative a platform?
The ipod did well because of itunes (the giftcards/syncing) not really because of the hardware itself. Most of the competitors saw just the device and tried marketing that. Only Microsoft tried to go after iTunes itself (with the Zune ecosystem) but this was too little to late, and they missed the window. To do the Mac Vs PC, this would be like Mac making the computers in different colors to compete with Windows Developer support.
But standalone MP3 players aren't going to be around for much longer.
Developers care about monetization. This is based off of marketshare, visibility, and ecosystem. Android now has a vibrant marketshare. Visibility is still an issue, and it took apple a LONG time to foster the ecosystem for their iphone (remember, when they announced it, it was said just to be the next step of itunes, which is why so many apps launched for .99) Once the visibility issue is fixed, the Ecosystem part will come.
of course not all of them refuse to pay for apps -- its around 99%
No, it's not.
Take out the Giftcard/music/video purchases from itunes, make sure they were never part of it, and the ONLY thing itunes allowed you to buy was apps, and that was a cold start in 2008. The iOS market wouldn't be anywhere what it is today. it tooks YEARS before the app store launch to build the ecosystem up, and it has nothing to do with the "typical iOS user" versus someone with Android
People are cheap, on android or on iOS. Apple has their ecosystem and visibility working for them, two things that Android can change about their market. The initial userbase might've been cheap, but android users arn't just a bunch of hobbyists anymore.
The key point of Motorola's latest quarter is that they essentially used Android to pull their failing mobile phone division out of the toilet. That can be interpreted many different ways, and may or may not mean anything in the long run, but it is still interesting to think about.
The Motley Fool has an interesting article here that claims that Google may already be selling more phones than Apple. But in the end, Google is playing a different game, so the numbers are irrelevant to them.
One positive thought (rumor?) from ConceivablyTech (here) is that Apple may have initially bagged the CDMA iPhone concept due to design complexity, but the increased pressure from Android may cause Apple to rethink it. Competition is good...
Comments
Android phones as a collective have already outsold the iPhone and will continue to do so.. I doubt a single Android model can outsell the iPhone though. This is much like PCs, Windows PCs as a collective have and always will outsell the Macs. The only way Apple will ever outsell a collective competition is if they license iOS and OSX for use on other hardware which we all know will not happen.
Do you have any numbers to back that up?
Going by the numbers in this article, manufacturers not named Motorola, or HTC, need to have sold 1.1mn phones in Q2 (the weakest quarter the iPhone will probably ever have, considering the iPhone 4 leak) to even equal the iPhone.
I think of all the reports, there was 1 report about iPhones falling behind Android, but that was an AdMob (Google) report, right after the release of iAds, based on some rather fishy numbers (since the next report iPhone was way back up).
This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months. Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales. You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.
I hope you are not an attorney...because you would probably be relegated to second rate ambulance chaser based on on your ability to reason your point with facts.
I guess you just conveniently ignored Apples quarterly Mac sales numbers. Or the fact that Mac's only had 2% of the market a few years ago and now has "struggled" as you say to 5%?
Whatever professor. Comparing Android to iOS is like comparing Windows to OS X. It is a stupid comparison.
Motorola's quarterly sales of 8.3 million phones is still behind Apple's 8.4 million units in the second calendar quarter of 2010, which ended in June. However, only 2.7 million of Motorola's sales were smartphones, meaning Apple sold more than three times as many smartphones as the leading Android maker.
This is the only relevant paragraph. 2.7M versus 8.4M.
Actually, there is a relevance to those figures: they show that a significant percentage of the market doesn't care about smartphones at all.
Comparing a single manufacturer or a single product is silly. We should be comparing platforms: Android v iOS.
Precisely, but that's not the sort of thing that gets much play in an Apple fan forum:
On strengths of Linux, Android will win mobile contest
http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/articl...obile_contest/
"...4.8 million Android phones a month, 20 percent more than Apple?s astonishing iPhone 4 sales."
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/...oidapple-math/
Steve Jobs confirms: Android outselling iPhone
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/07/...elling-iphone/
And in response to Apple's unprecedented closure of their mobile OS:
Developers migrate from iPhone to Android in droves
Developers are flocking to Android in their droves, making it the most used platform for mobile developers in 2010, according to a report by Vision Mobile.
The study, entitled Mobile Developer Economics 2010 and Beyond, surveyed over 400 developers worldwide working on eight different platforms: Apple's iOS for the iPhone, Google's Android, Nokia's Symbian, BlackBerry, Java ME, Windows Phone, Flash Lite, and mobile web.
The research found that the Android and iPhone platforms are, as one would expect, top of the list for developer mindshare, taking over from Symbian and Java ME, which previously held the crown in 2008, but Symbian still remains a contender in terms of sheer volume and market share.
The big twist, however, is that Android has outdone the iPhone in terms of developer experience. 60 percent of the developers asked had been or are working on Android projects, with the iPhone and Jave ME following behind with roughly 50 percent each. This may come as a surprise to Apple enthusiasts who have been citing the App Store as being significantly larger than that of the Android Market, so suggesting that the iPhone was the favourite toy as far as developers were concerned.
http://www.techeye.net/mobile/develo...roid-in-droves
This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months. Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales. You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.
Truth? Based on what?
The only 'truth' that says that Android is outselling iPhone is a single Google quote that they were activating new phones at the rate of 160,000 per day. No mention of how that was determined. Did they pick the best day ever and extrapolate? The best hour? The best minute?
So far, every independent analysis says that the iPhone is outselling any single Android phone by a large margin - and still outselling all Android phones together.
No one is comparing "one phone to one phone?, they are comparing vendor to vendor, the only real measure that makes sense here.
That's not even close to being true. The comparison depends greatly on what you're trying to accomplish.
If you're looking for market success by products, you compare the iPhone to each individual competitor's phone.
If you're looking at where to invest your IRA, you look at profits, growth rates, and a variety of other factors.
If you're a developer, you look at total number of systems that run each OS (that is, all Android devices vs all iOS devices). Or, even more precisely, revenues for software sales for each platform.
If you're a case manufacturer, you look at unit sales-and the relative frequency that each phone owner buys cases.
And so on. There is no one right comparison - you have to first define the question before finding the 'right' answer.
On strengths of Linux, Android will win mobile contest
http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/articl...obile_contest/
"...4.8 million Android phones a month, 20 percent more than Apple?s astonishing iPhone 4 sales."
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/...oidapple-math/
Steve Jobs confirms: Android outselling iPhone
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/07/...elling-iphone/
And in response to Apple's unprecedented closure of their mobile OS:
http://www.techeye.net/mobile/develo...roid-in-droves
This is hilarious. None of those begin to provide any reputable evidence that Android outsells iPhone.
The closest is a single claim by Google (not since repeated) that they were activating at the rate 160,000 phones per day. Is that a peak value? An average value? How long was that rate sustained? There is absolutely nothing there that allows a comparison. After all, at the peak, Apple was probably activating at a rate of 2 million iPhones per day.
I also like the way you distort things to satisfy your agenda. Jobs never said that Android outsells iPhone. He gave an iPhone sales figure. You used your meaningless number to compare to Apple's real number and reached that conclusion yourself.
I really like the one listing developer interest. Who in the world cares how many developers there are on Android? In terms of apps available, there are 3 times as many on the iPhone - and that's even before you consider that not all Android apps run on all devices or the fact that many Android apps were rejected by Apple for being junk (or, of course, the number of Android apps that will send your personal data to China). Granted, there are a lot of hobbyists who are interested in Android - most of them because they're not capable of doing what it takes to produce a quality app. If you want to look at what's of interest to real developers, look at revenues. Apple has > 2/3 of ALL smart phone app revenues. That's what will interest real developers.
And in response to Apple's unprecedented closure of their mobile OS:
Developers migrate from iPhone to Android in droves
Developers are flocking to Android in their droves, making it the most used platform for mobile developers in 2010, according to a report by Vision Mobile.
The study, entitled Mobile Developer Economics 2010 and Beyond, surveyed over 400 developers worldwide working on eight different platforms: Apple's iOS for the iPhone, Google's Android, Nokia's Symbian, BlackBerry, Java ME, Windows Phone, Flash Lite, and mobile web.
The research found that the Android and iPhone platforms are, as one would expect, top of the list for developer mindshare, taking over from Symbian and Java ME, which previously held the crown in 2008, but Symbian still remains a contender in terms of sheer volume and market share.
The big twist, however, is that Android has outdone the iPhone in terms of developer experience. 60 percent of the developers asked had been or are working on Android projects, with the iPhone and Jave ME following behind with roughly 50 percent each. This may come as a surprise to Apple enthusiasts who have been citing the App Store as being significantly larger than that of the Android Market, so suggesting that the iPhone was the favourite toy as far as developers were concerned.
You know I don't look at that survey and think that "developers are migrating from iPhone to Android in droves". Not to say they aren't moving, but I don't see evidence of that in the survey. My impressions...
Steve Jobs confirms: Android outselling iPhone
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/07/...elling-iphone/
This is hilarious. None of those begin to provide any reputable evidence that Android outsells iPhone.
You may be right, perhaps Steve Jobs is a liar.
His email address is said to be sjobs@apple.com
Let us know how that works out for you.
Truth? Based on what?
The only 'truth' that says that Android is outselling iPhone is a single Google quote that they were activating new phones at the rate of 160,000 per day. No mention of how that was determined. Did they pick the best day ever and extrapolate? The best hour? The best minute?
So far, every independent analysis says that the iPhone is outselling any single Android phone by a large margin - and still outselling all Android phones together.
It's not a single quote. At every big press conference, they announce the rolling average of their sales. They pull this data by looking at their month over month growth and averaging it out by days. There could be days where they sold only 120k, but there are also days where they activated over 200k
If it was even a HINTED at lie, blogs like this one would be all over it posting counter arguments. but they don't. Know why?
Because independent data shows android growing at an incredible rate. Where are your "independent analysis" of the data? Because Commscore, admob impressions, pretty much EVERY press release looking at marketshare shows android growing at a rate faster than iOS, for the past three quarters. If you have alternative data, provide it.
That's not even close to being true. The comparison depends greatly on what you're trying to accomplish.
If you're looking for market success by products, you compare the iPhone to each individual competitor's phone.
Wrong. the iPhone is a OS, it's always been about the OS (look at ipod touch, ipad, etc). You CANNOT compare iOS to a single piece of hardware that happens to be running android. Android devices are NOT about having a single device that will sell as many devices as the iphone. Even motorola (what this article focuses on) has several android devices, so even the author knows better than that.
If you're looking at where to invest your IRA, you look at profits, growth rates, and a variety of other factors.
If you're a developer, you look at total number of systems that run each OS (that is, all Android devices vs all iOS devices). Or, even more precisely, revenues for software sales for each platform.
You almost have a point here.
The iphone gets its profits from two different areas. The first are the Draconian arrangements with carriers. They get these in part because up until now, the iphone was the BEST way to get new people interested in the smartphone market (and thus highly lucrative data contracts) Yes, Nokia, BBerry, etc are nice and all for business users, but if you want a new market, the only choice was iOS. This isn't the case anymore. With android 2.x, and custom overlays like HTC Sense (and yes, some people even like Motoblur.. I don't get it either) android is starting to attract some of that SAME demographic (new smartphone users), without any of the crazy strings, fees, and requirements that apple has with carriers. As android continues to grow, it's going to be harder and harder for Apple to maintain those agreements. Carriers won't want to drop the iphone, but they're not going to just accept marching orders from cupertino uncontested any more.
The second is the app store, which, you're correct, has significantly more monetization opportunities for developers over the android market right now. Part of this was user base (see above) the other part is the marketplace itself, and lastly the android market doesn't have the embedded marketing system that the iPhone does thanks to itunes.
As for marketshare, that's changing rapidly. The number of users who have exposure to the android market has increased dramatically over the past year, and at present shows no signs of stopping.
The marketplace is a mess right now, but android users/developers know it (check out appbrain, a free website that makes it MUCH easier to browse the marketplace), and more importantly Google knows it as well. Everything leaked about 3.0/Gingerbread seems to point to a User-experience focused update. Do you have any doubts that the market won't be part of this? At the moment, it's a mess, but if that changes.. do you really think developers won't take notice? They're already interested in android, and countless Independence reports show that they believe android will be the future. And Google is making active steps to try and make paid apps more secure (see their release this week)
And lastly, you have the itunes ecosystem. This one will be the hardest to overcome because it has the better part of a decade of marketing behind it. But google is looking at this as well. They just updated their developer agreement, pointing to allowing carrier billing, which is a lot more straight forward for most consumers. They also demoed in-market music purchases. They know that to make this work, they need to have a viable gift card system.
So yes, apple still has the upper hand in revenue, but a GOOD chunk of their advantage is based on factors that are quickly changing.
If you're a case manufacturer, you look at unit sales-and the relative frequency that each phone owner buys cases.
True, but there is ALWAYS a market for cases. Sure, iSkin might not like all the different products on the market, but other companies have made cases for hundreds of phones before.
This is hilarious. None of those begin to provide any reputable evidence that Android outsells iPhone.
Please link a single article from a reputable, independent, source that has hard evidence to refute Google, Admob, Commscore, etc. claims about android sales. Do you honestly think that if they were lying about their activations someone wouldn't call them out on it?
The closest is a single claim by Google (not since repeated) that they were activating at the rate 160,000 phones per day. Is that a peak value? An average value? How long was that rate sustained? There is absolutely nothing there that allows a comparison. After all, at the peak, Apple was probably activating at a rate of 2 million iPhones per day.
They've made several announcements, the last few (over a period of at least 2.5 months) had the 160k a day figure. Before that it was 120k, then 100k, then 60k all the way back at the holidays. It's a ROLLING AVERAGE just like Google said it was, and just like Commscore and several other outlets have independently confirmed.
And the iphone didn't sell 2million units a day for any average. the Iphone4 launch, per Apple, was the best iphone launch ever. in 22 days they sold a bit over 3 million units. That is around 136k iphone 4 activations a day. Even factoring in iphone 3gs, ipad, and ipod touch sales, do you REALLY think that you could get a number even CLOSE to 1 million activations a day, let alone the 2million you're claiming? If you add all iOS devices up, does iOS still beat android? Maybe, but the number is very close, and in smartphone marketshare (what pretty much everyone, including developers, look at) android has passed them.
I also like the way you distort things to satisfy your agenda. Jobs never said that Android outsells iPhone. He gave an iPhone sales figure. You used your meaningless number to compare to Apple's real number and reached that conclusion yourself.
So you know the sales figure number, but you ignored it in the paragraph above? Who's manipulating data again?
The guy you're responding to didn't come up with that number, several media outlets did, and NO ONE contested the android numbers. Again, there are a lot of people who have no love for google, and a lot of blogs like this one that have a vested interest in proving claims like those wrong, and yet none of them did. Ask yourself why.
I really like the one listing developer interest. Who in the world cares how many developers there are on Android? In terms of apps available, there are 3 times as many on the iPhone - and that's even before you consider that not all Android apps run on all devices or the fact that many Android apps were rejected by Apple for being junk (or, of course, the number of Android apps that will send your personal data to China). Granted, there are a lot of hobbyists who are interested in Android - most of them because they're not capable of doing what it takes to produce a quality app. If you want to look at what's of interest to real developers, look at revenues. Apple has > 2/3 of ALL smart phone app revenues. That's what will interest real developers.
They have the revenue because of their monetization system, something that can EASILY and quickly change. (see above). Quality developers stick with apple because atm, it's the best way for them to get their applications noticed and for them to make some money. the MOMENT that changes, do you really think that they won't start developing for other operating systems?
Developers don't share your brand loyalty. They'll go to wherever gives them the highest chance at revenue. At the moment, that's Apple. That doesn't mean it will always BE Apple.
That's not even close to being true. The comparison depends greatly on what you're trying to accomplish.
In this article the comparison is Motorola to Apple?s smartphone sales. Nothing about OS marketshare or IRAs (not sure how that got mentioned) should be part of the comparison. This is one vendor to one vendor.
First off, since when is Motorola the "number one" android provider? In the US they might be, but certainly not abroad. That title goes to HTC, not Motorola.
Secondly, the author tried using the data about motorola to make a comment about how android isn't selling as well for hardware makers as iOS is, and it's not a fair comparison there. First off, Apple doesn't have anyone to compete with when it comes to iOS sales. if you have an iOS device, apple sold it. If someone is looking at android, they are looking at HTC, Motorola, Samsung, etc. and that's after they decided on android. This is why comparing a single hardware maker (or device) to Apple/iOS will not work.
It's like saying windows is failing because apple sold more macbooks than alienware last quarter.
Dude, thats awesome! Can I steal that line?
In fact, scrub that. I'm going to steal that line. Thanks!
Absolutely, It's actually one of me Dad's sayings! He was a former CEO of an International company and it was one of his favorite lines...in private company of course!
Glad you liked it...warmed my heart!
Best!
This is the only relevant paragraph. 2.7M versus 8.4M.
Not even a worthy competitor.
thats one scary chart
It's not a single quote. At every big press conference, they announce the rolling average of their sales. They pull this data by looking at their month over month growth and averaging it out by days. There could be days where they sold only 120k, but there are also days where they activated over 200k
If it was even a HINTED at lie, blogs like this one would be all over it posting counter arguments. but they don't. Know why?
Because independent data shows android growing at an incredible rate. Where are your "independent analysis" of the data? Because Commscore, admob impressions, pretty much EVERY press release looking at marketshare shows android growing at a rate faster than iOS, for the past three quarters. If you have alternative data, provide it.
Wrong. the iPhone is a OS, it's always been about the OS (look at ipod touch, ipad, etc). You CANNOT compare iOS to a single piece of hardware that happens to be running android. Android devices are NOT about having a single device that will sell as many devices as the iphone. Even motorola (what this article focuses on) has several android devices, so even the author knows better than that.
You almost have a point here.
The iphone gets its profits from two different areas. The first are the Draconian arrangements with carriers. They get these in part because up until now, the iphone was the BEST way to get new people interested in the smartphone market (and thus highly lucrative data contracts) Yes, Nokia, BBerry, etc are nice and all for business users, but if you want a new market, the only choice was iOS. This isn't the case anymore. With android 2.x, and custom overlays like HTC Sense (and yes, some people even like Motoblur.. I don't get it either) android is starting to attract some of that SAME demographic (new smartphone users), without any of the crazy strings, fees, and requirements that apple has with carriers. As android continues to grow, it's going to be harder and harder for Apple to maintain those agreements. Carriers won't want to drop the iphone, but they're not going to just accept marching orders from cupertino uncontested any more.
The second is the app store, which, you're correct, has significantly more monetization opportunities for developers over the android market right now. Part of this was user base (see above) the other part is the marketplace itself, and lastly the android market doesn't have the embedded marketing system that the iPhone does thanks to itunes.
As for marketshare, that's changing rapidly. The number of users who have exposure to the android market has increased dramatically over the past year, and at present shows no signs of stopping.
The marketplace is a mess right now, but android users/developers know it (check out appbrain, a free website that makes it MUCH easier to browse the marketplace), and more importantly Google knows it as well. Everything leaked about 3.0/Gingerbread seems to point to a User-experience focused update. Do you have any doubts that the market won't be part of this? At the moment, it's a mess, but if that changes.. do you really think developers won't take notice? They're already interested in android, and countless Independence reports show that they believe android will be the future. And Google is making active steps to try and make paid apps more secure (see their release this week)
And lastly, you have the itunes ecosystem. This one will be the hardest to overcome because it has the better part of a decade of marketing behind it. But google is looking at this as well. They just updated their developer agreement, pointing to allowing carrier billing, which is a lot more straight forward for most consumers. They also demoed in-market music purchases. They know that to make this work, they need to have a viable gift card system.
So yes, apple still has the upper hand in revenue, but a GOOD chunk of their advantage is based on factors that are quickly changing.
True, but there is ALWAYS a market for cases. Sure, iSkin might not like all the different products on the market, but other companies have made cases for hundreds of phones before.
Please link a single article from a reputable, independent, source that has hard evidence to refute Google, Admob, Commscore, etc. claims about android sales. Do you honestly think that if they were lying about their activations someone wouldn't call them out on it?
They've made several announcements, the last few (over a period of at least 2.5 months) had the 160k a day figure. Before that it was 120k, then 100k, then 60k all the way back at the holidays. It's a ROLLING AVERAGE just like Google said it was, and just like Commscore and several other outlets have independently confirmed.
And the iphone didn't sell 2million units a day for any average. the Iphone4 launch, per Apple, was the best iphone launch ever. in 22 days they sold a bit over 3 million units. That is around 136k iphone 4 activations a day. Even factoring in iphone 3gs, ipad, and ipod touch sales, do you REALLY think that you could get a number even CLOSE to 1 million activations a day, let alone the 2million you're claiming? If you add all iOS devices up, does iOS still beat android? Maybe, but the number is very close, and in smartphone marketshare (what pretty much everyone, including developers, look at) android has passed them.
So you know the sales figure number, but you ignored it in the paragraph above? Who's manipulating data again?
The guy you're responding to didn't come up with that number, several media outlets did, and NO ONE contested the android numbers. Again, there are a lot of people who have no love for google, and a lot of blogs like this one that have a vested interest in proving claims like those wrong, and yet none of them did. Ask yourself why.
They have the revenue because of their monetization system, something that can EASILY and quickly change. (see above). Quality developers stick with apple because atm, it's the best way for them to get their applications noticed and for them to make some money. the MOMENT that changes, do you really think that they won't start developing for other operating systems?
Developers don't share your brand loyalty. They'll go to wherever gives them the highest chance at revenue. At the moment, that's Apple. That doesn't mean it will always BE Apple.
That 160,000 phones a day is proven wrong from these numbers. At a rate of 160,000 a day they would sell about 14.4 million android based phones every 3 months, but the two biggest android phone makers together only sold some where south of 7.2 million. the reason that it is less then 7.2 is because both companies make smartphones without android even if it is a small number. Still there is no way samsung, lg and all the other companies together are making 7+ million android based phones every 3 months.
Android users are cheap Penny Pinching FreeLoaders. THEY DONT BUY APPS.
Good luck wasting your time developing and selling your apps to these people.
That 160,000 phones a day is proven wrong from these numbers. At a rate of 160,000 a day they would sell about 14.4 million android based phones every 3 months, but the two biggest android phone makers together only sold some where south of 7.2 million. the reason that it is less then 7.2 is because both companies make smartphones without android even if it is a small number. Still there is no way samsung, lg and all the other companies together are making 7+ million android based phones every 3 months.
What phones? The HD2? a few here and there? For both companies, an overwhelming majority of their smartphone sales are android.
2.7 million from Motorola. 5.4million From HTC That's 8.4million. And this is their Q2 results which are January to March (before the 160k a day claim) Back then the number was reported as 60l, 100k, and 120k. EDIT: This is going off of normal Fiscal Earnings reports. If they use something other than US standard, numbers could be off.
Short Version: Google is talking Q3/Q4 numbers, This article (and Motorola and HTC) are reporting Q2
The other mistake is that they believe all developers care about is marketshare, which is ridiculously false. If marketshare was all that mattered, then nobody would develop games for the 360 or PS3 since the Wii has sold much more! According to fanboys, Android is CRUSHING the iPhone, yet developers aren't leaving. Is it because they're stupid and hate money or is it perhaps because despite their marketshare, Android isn't as lucrative a platform?
News to DEVELOPERS:
Android users are cheap Penny Pinching FreeLoaders. THEY DONT BUY APPS.
Good luck wasting your time developing and selling your apps to these people.
Actually they do buy apps. The thing holding android app purchases back is the general clutter that is the market (finding a quality app is a bit hard unless you know EXACTLY what you're looking for). Do any search for paid apps, and a good chunk of them are junk, meaning that people will have a high chance of ignoring the good ones.
Then add into it the issue with Google Checkout. With iTunes you have these things called Gift cards (and we all know it's easier spending someone elses money) if you buy something on android, it's coming right from your credit card.
Yes, there are cheap android owners who refuse to pay for apps, but that's not all of them. There are issues with the market that need (and most likely are) to be addressed before you start looking at just the user. I know a TON of people with iphones/ipod touches that haven't spent more than $3 on apps and they've had the device for years. People are cheap. The issue for platform developers is to find a way to make it so that the people who want to spend money, can.
Are the people who always bring up the Mac vs. Windows history just completely oblivious to that somewhat successful Apple device called the iPod (which, according to their logic, should have been crushed by Microsoft and its entourage who produced cheaper players with more features) or are they intentionally revising history to convince themselves that Apple is DOOMED? It's as if they were asleep for the last ten years, which would also explain why they don't realize that the Mac is a success for Apple.
The other mistake is that they believe all developers care about is marketshare, which is ridiculously false. If marketshare was all that mattered, then nobody would develop games for the 360 or PS3 since the Wii has sold much more! According to fanboys, Android is CRUSHING the iPhone, yet developers aren't leaving. Is it because they're stupid and hate money or is it perhaps because despite their marketshare, Android isn't as lucrative a platform?
The ipod did well because of itunes (the giftcards/syncing) not really because of the hardware itself. Most of the competitors saw just the device and tried marketing that. Only Microsoft tried to go after iTunes itself (with the Zune ecosystem) but this was too little to late, and they missed the window. To do the Mac Vs PC, this would be like Mac making the computers in different colors to compete with Windows Developer support.
But standalone MP3 players aren't going to be around for much longer.
Developers care about monetization. This is based off of marketshare, visibility, and ecosystem. Android now has a vibrant marketshare. Visibility is still an issue, and it took apple a LONG time to foster the ecosystem for their iphone (remember, when they announced it, it was said just to be the next step of itunes, which is why so many apps launched for .99) Once the visibility issue is fixed, the Ecosystem part will come.
Yes, there are cheap android owners who refuse to pay for apps, but that's not all of them.
of course not all of them refuse to pay for apps -- its around 99%
of course not all of them refuse to pay for apps -- its around 99%
No, it's not.
Take out the Giftcard/music/video purchases from itunes, make sure they were never part of it, and the ONLY thing itunes allowed you to buy was apps, and that was a cold start in 2008. The iOS market wouldn't be anywhere what it is today. it tooks YEARS before the app store launch to build the ecosystem up, and it has nothing to do with the "typical iOS user" versus someone with Android
People are cheap, on android or on iOS. Apple has their ecosystem and visibility working for them, two things that Android can change about their market. The initial userbase might've been cheap, but android users arn't just a bunch of hobbyists anymore.
The Motley Fool has an interesting article here that claims that Google may already be selling more phones than Apple. But in the end, Google is playing a different game, so the numbers are irrelevant to them.
One positive thought (rumor?) from ConceivablyTech (here) is that Apple may have initially bagged the CDMA iPhone concept due to design complexity, but the increased pressure from Android may cause Apple to rethink it. Competition is good...