Won't no one answer to the absurd amount of lies and disinformation spread by the self-named troll of the thread?
- To accuse iPhone of fragmentation?!? Really? When their form factor is practically the same from day one and they are all upgraded in software on the spot, regardless of carrier's "mood" towards their clients? Is this even remotely comparable? Hardware is utterly different in android phones, all around, from form factor, specs, capabilities, touch-screen types and qualities, screen res, oh boy I can go on forever;
- To state that iPhone developers are "evading" teh iOS towards android? COME ON, that's the biggest bullshit I can ever imagine, for many reasons, most of them being stated thus far.
If this guy isn't a google worker, he is simply a deluded freak. And he dares to call himself rational. How insulting to anyone with a working brain.
Actually, by the definition of some here, fragmentation of iOS is in several parts:
As for those BoGo deals, it appears they're seriously working well for Verizon given that the phone might be 'free', but still requires both activation and a new contract -
Not that great for the manufacturers' bottom line, however.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44
This is not the end of Apple. If the iPhone hits Verizon (or Sprint + TMobile, which will be a similar additional marketshare) within the next year, they can still choke off Android. However, Apple is really letting go of many opportunities here.
"not the end of apple"??
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
With all due respect, the world is bigger than the US. Apple sells many iPhones and iOS devices around the world .... All to say, if you want Apple to rule, think China and India.
i think many have the mis-perception that apple want to "rule". I am pretty sure that they are happy to have a decent, not dominant, market share and remain highly profitable. "Dominance" is more trouble than it is worth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant
Sometimes a simple congratulations is sufficient. Good job Android, RIM, and Apple.
All three are healthy and vibrant, what's there to argue about?
Hardware is utterly different in android phones, all around, from form factor, specs, capabilities, touch-screen types and qualities, screen res, oh boy I can go on forever;
That's one of the worst things about Android - all the different phones. Apple is much easier all the way around, from initial selection, to instant setup, to intuitive use.
Everybody is confused by all this Android/DROID/Whatever stuff with 17 different operating systems and you don't even know what to do.
It's funny that "buy one get one" is sneered at... it's not like buying a pack of peanuts BOGO at the grocery store. They don't just throw an extra phone in the bag for you to take home and stick in the drawer until you need one.
Also, the BOGO Androids are the older models, not the latest hardware. The latest 16 GB Androids usually sell for the same price as the latest 16 GB iPhone.
BOGO is effectively the same as Apple selling the previous iPhone for half price. Except that with BOGO, the manufacturer actually gets paid for two phones, and the carrier rakes in data charges for two phones over a 2-year contract.
Many of the "free" phones probably end up being given to "the kids", who probably would have just gotten a standard phone if there was an upfront charge. Getting your product into the hands of impressionable "future buyers" is an added bonus...
After years of preaching the virtues of net neutrality, to their benefit, naturally, Google now does an abrupt about-face and goes into negotiations with Verizon to get priority for their traffic. Whatever happened to do no evil? I guess they don't think they need to keep up that charade any longer.
There has never been a company in my lifetime, so hypocritical, with so little respect for either laws or personal freedom and privacy as Google. The minute it's to their advantage to abandon net neutrality, under the bus it goes. This is a company utterly devoid of any principles, moral or otherwise.
And this is the company you Android fans think is so great, and are so eager to see succeed?
Google is a panicked company strategy-wise, at this point. They have no clue as to where they want to go or what they want to do. As a result, they will try anything.
More to the point of this story, Android makes them no money whatsoever. They're hoping for ad-based revenue down the road from AdMob, but that's a tricky proposition -- people are less tolerant of ads in the mobile space. At some point, it is inevitable that they'll have to stop giving it away, and that's when the Motorolas, HTCs etc will start to flee (someone else, e.g., HP, Microsoft will have come around with a new OS, at that point).
Tell your wife you told a little lie, or kind of. There are plenty of music players, mms and many other programs for the iPhone. And up until this week, you could not download the froyo 2.2 for your phone on the same date that it was released for others. SO you have Froyo, but did you get the whole update? or did Verizon nix a couple of features, such as wifi sharing, so you have to (according to Verizon) pay for their service. When iOS is updated, it pertains to all of their current models (within last 2 years) and is not held back by the manufacturer or the carrier. Android is great, but sadly, the updates and features are so fragmented that developers are having a hard time making one app for all, and consumers are starting for feel "feature envy" from other phones using the "same" Android operating system. If I buy an iPhone today, I don't have to worry about a new model coming out in 3 months like the Android phones. Why would I want to buy a phone that will be obsolete in just 4-6 months?
For Christ's sake, why would phone be obsolete just because new one came out? I don't see logic there. Most of my friends with iPhone still use whatever OS it was purchased with. They don't think their iPhone is obsolete just because iOS4 is out.
I do like to apply every new update asap, but that is only me. Then again, I can't say iOS4 gave me anything worth keeping (again, in my case). I was even researching on the options to reverse my 3Gs to iOS3.x. I finally gave up and settled with iOS4. Only advantage I have (the way I am using phone) is that with new OS my 3Gs is better handling poor 3G reception and will more reliably fall back to 2G (previously it was much more keen to give me "No Service" even if 2G coverage was fine)... but it has handful of glitches, like Stanza not always keeping the last book opened but reverting to the library when restarted.
That's one of the worst things about Android - all the different phones. Apple is much easier all the way around, from initial selection, to instant setup, to intuitive use.
Everybody is confused by all this Android/DROID/Whatever stuff with 17 different operating systems and you don't even know what to do.
My experience:
What was my iPod Touch? 2nd gen? I can't remember... it does have GPS. Which gen was GPS added? I can't remember that either. I wonder which IOS 4 features will work? Hmm... guess I will try and see. Orientation lock would be cool, but nothing happens when I double-click the home button... what the..??
Let's see... I wonder if this new multi-touch update will enable inertial scrolling on my MacBook Pro. Now when did I buy that thing? Heck, I can't remember. I think it was "early 2009", but then again it was refurbished, so maybe it is actually a "mid 2008" model? Heck if I know...
The Apple naming system is just as confusing... model numbers are the only sure way to keep them straight, but the average person has no interest in memorizing those.
[QUOTE=shawnb;1690231Also, the BOGO Androids are the older models, not the latest hardware. The latest 16 GB Androids usually sell for the same price as the latest 16 GB iPhone. .[/QUOTE]
OK. I"ll accept that.
Now, give us the sales of any individual model of the latest 16 GB Androids.
You can't have it both ways. You can't claim that Android is doing better than Apple based on ALL Android phone sales and then ask us to ignore all the highest volume BOGO phones.
That's one of the worst things about Android - all the different phones. Apple is much easier all the way around, from initial selection, to instant setup, to intuitive use.
Everybody is confused by all this Android/DROID/Whatever stuff with 17 different operating systems and you don't even know what to do.
Conversely, very few (if any, besides you) appear to be remotely 'confused' about the Android OS, as they all have at least one Android offering supported by their carrier and accept/understand that it's just a different phone with the same OS as any other Android smartphone. (think Windows 7 running successfully on Hp, Dell, Lenovo, Apple, etc).
Contrary to what some (would lead others to believe), buyer choice is one of the most obvious benefits of having so many Android OS-based smartphones in that that it affords the consumer a variety of screen sizes, keyboard options, form-factors, and (yes) aesthetics, while still lending an overall 'operational familiarity to all of them.
Another plus is that having such a wide variety of Android smartphones affords developers a much larger customer-base in which to sells their apps, (ideally) much more than a manufacturer who adopts a one size fits all approach.
Android is what WinMo should have been if MS had someone other then Boldmer to president. Honestly there are plenty of Android phones that still run 1.5/1.6 and are basically replacing those cheap Nokia hockey puck phones that people got for free as long as they signed up for a plan.
I would say only android 2 and above has feature parity and in some cases like maps better features then the iPhone. That is about 50% of androids according to last surveys I saw here and 9 5 mac.
Over time Android's lead will increase simply because it can power anything from a grandma phone to Evo 4G, while apple operates at high end only.
Personally, That's what I (and many others) like most about Android-based smartphones... C H O I C E
Android is infinitely customizable in almost every way, designed to function/look the way most beneficial to the user, not just an appliance that forces the user to accept what has been given to them.
Um, how can an appliance that ONE FREELY CHOOSES to buy "force" them to "accept" some integral aspect of the appliance? It's like going to The Olive Garden for dinner and then complaining that you are "forced" to eat Italian food.
Yesterday morning I OTAd my DROID to Android Froyo/2.2 and asked the spouse to use it for the day instead of the usual iPhone4 just to see what the reaction would be.
This is impossible. No spouse would agree to that. Where are her contacts, email, txt accounts, bookmarks, etc. That is just preposterous. No woman I have ever met would go along with that unless you copied all of her data to the new phone. And why would you go through that laborious process just to see her reaction. BS.
Furthermore:Why would you immediately after upgrading, subject your spouse to potential unknown issues before you even gave it a day to test if everything was working properly? I don't think you'll stay married long if that is how little regard you have for your spouse.
10 years ago, there were around 7,000 US carriers. While that number has shrunk considerably since, there are still hundreds to thousands of US carriers. We just very rarely hear about them.
Combined the top 4 carriers have about 80% of the market. So 19% of smartphones sold to other carriers is about right.
Thank you! I didn't think anyone was going to answer my question. It's amazing to think there could be so many carriers and hard to imagine how the market would actually work or how the smaller carriers would survive. It must make choosing a carrier very difficult. In Canada we only have three or four large companies, three or four smaller but well known companies, and a couple of very small ones, plus some regional ones. I can't imagine what it would be like to have 10 or more small carriers in every single state, when we don't have much more than 10 in the whole country.
AWESOME smartphone, dude. My Motorola is officially for sale!
Actually that is a sweet phone. Not pocketable but it probably gets 5 bars 50 miles out to sea and outputs 5w of power. The antenna is well above the user's head for reduced radiation exposure and it can withstand plenty of drops onto the sidewalk without consequence.
Um, how can an appliance that ONE FREELY CHOOSES to buy "force" them to "accept" some integral aspect of the appliance? It's like going to The Olive Garden for dinner and then complaining that you are "forced" to eat Italian food.
Say you really like the iOS ecosystem, but for whatever reason you want a physical keyboard... you can either choose to accept a phone without a keyboard or find another OS.
Say that someone likes android (heavy gmail user) but they want a phone with a keyboard. They have an array of options. Or one without a keyboard. again, an array of options.
This way your choice in OS doesn't dictate what kind/style of device you need to get.
To use your example, it's like someone liking Italian food, and the only choices being olive garden.
Comments
Won't no one answer to the absurd amount of lies and disinformation spread by the self-named troll of the thread?
- To accuse iPhone of fragmentation?!? Really? When their form factor is practically the same from day one and they are all upgraded in software on the spot, regardless of carrier's "mood" towards their clients? Is this even remotely comparable? Hardware is utterly different in android phones, all around, from form factor, specs, capabilities, touch-screen types and qualities, screen res, oh boy I can go on forever;
- To state that iPhone developers are "evading" teh iOS towards android? COME ON, that's the biggest bullshit I can ever imagine, for many reasons, most of them being stated thus far.
If this guy isn't a google worker, he is simply a deluded freak. And he dares to call himself rational. How insulting to anyone with a working brain.
Actually, by the definition of some here, fragmentation of iOS is in several parts:
Different platforms: iPod, iPhone, iPad
Different hardware features: iPhone Edge, iPhone 3g, iPhone 3gs, iPhone 4, iPod Touch 1G, iPod Touch 2G, iPad 1.0
Inability of old devices to use new programs with newer features such as GPS, gyroscope, 8.5" screen
Different screen resolutions. Front-facing cameras. Different camera resolutions. Different screen sizes. Different hardware speeds.
That, by definition of these boards, is fragmentation. I don't agree with it. But that's what people on here define it as.
As for those BoGo deals, it appears they're seriously working well for Verizon given that the phone might be 'free', but still requires both activation and a new contract -
Not that great for the manufacturers' bottom line, however.
This is not the end of Apple. If the iPhone hits Verizon (or Sprint + TMobile, which will be a similar additional marketshare) within the next year, they can still choke off Android. However, Apple is really letting go of many opportunities here.
"not the end of apple"??
With all due respect, the world is bigger than the US. Apple sells many iPhones and iOS devices around the world .... All to say, if you want Apple to rule, think China and India.
i think many have the mis-perception that apple want to "rule". I am pretty sure that they are happy to have a decent, not dominant, market share and remain highly profitable. "Dominance" is more trouble than it is worth.
Sometimes a simple congratulations is sufficient. Good job Android, RIM, and Apple.
All three are healthy and vibrant, what's there to argue about?
Well said.
taking from the rich(er) and giving to the poor(er)
Bill Gates, Prince of Thieves
All he needs is a little pixie hat and some green tights
Disturbing on countless levels, kinda' funny though.
Hardware is utterly different in android phones, all around, from form factor, specs, capabilities, touch-screen types and qualities, screen res, oh boy I can go on forever;
That's one of the worst things about Android - all the different phones. Apple is much easier all the way around, from initial selection, to instant setup, to intuitive use.
Everybody is confused by all this Android/DROID/Whatever stuff with 17 different operating systems and you don't even know what to do.
Actually, by the definition of some here, fragmentation of iOS is in several parts:
Different platforms: iPod, iPhone, iPad
blah blah....
Ah, in which case, what is Apple's true market share?
(Petard. Hoist).
Also, the BOGO Androids are the older models, not the latest hardware. The latest 16 GB Androids usually sell for the same price as the latest 16 GB iPhone.
BOGO is effectively the same as Apple selling the previous iPhone for half price. Except that with BOGO, the manufacturer actually gets paid for two phones, and the carrier rakes in data charges for two phones over a 2-year contract.
Many of the "free" phones probably end up being given to "the kids", who probably would have just gotten a standard phone if there was an upfront charge. Getting your product into the hands of impressionable "future buyers" is an added bonus...
Sounds almost genius to me...
Here's an example of the number one reason why anyone who supports Google, in any endeavor, is a fool:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/te...ref=technology
After years of preaching the virtues of net neutrality, to their benefit, naturally, Google now does an abrupt about-face and goes into negotiations with Verizon to get priority for their traffic. Whatever happened to do no evil? I guess they don't think they need to keep up that charade any longer.
There has never been a company in my lifetime, so hypocritical, with so little respect for either laws or personal freedom and privacy as Google. The minute it's to their advantage to abandon net neutrality, under the bus it goes. This is a company utterly devoid of any principles, moral or otherwise.
And this is the company you Android fans think is so great, and are so eager to see succeed?
Google is a panicked company strategy-wise, at this point. They have no clue as to where they want to go or what they want to do. As a result, they will try anything.
More to the point of this story, Android makes them no money whatsoever. They're hoping for ad-based revenue down the road from AdMob, but that's a tricky proposition -- people are less tolerant of ads in the mobile space. At some point, it is inevitable that they'll have to stop giving it away, and that's when the Motorolas, HTCs etc will start to flee (someone else, e.g., HP, Microsoft will have come around with a new OS, at that point).
One quarter does not a trend make.
Tell your wife you told a little lie, or kind of. There are plenty of music players, mms and many other programs for the iPhone. And up until this week, you could not download the froyo 2.2 for your phone on the same date that it was released for others. SO you have Froyo, but did you get the whole update? or did Verizon nix a couple of features, such as wifi sharing, so you have to (according to Verizon) pay for their service. When iOS is updated, it pertains to all of their current models (within last 2 years) and is not held back by the manufacturer or the carrier. Android is great, but sadly, the updates and features are so fragmented that developers are having a hard time making one app for all, and consumers are starting for feel "feature envy" from other phones using the "same" Android operating system. If I buy an iPhone today, I don't have to worry about a new model coming out in 3 months like the Android phones. Why would I want to buy a phone that will be obsolete in just 4-6 months?
For Christ's sake, why would phone be obsolete just because new one came out? I don't see logic there. Most of my friends with iPhone still use whatever OS it was purchased with. They don't think their iPhone is obsolete just because iOS4 is out.
I do like to apply every new update asap, but that is only me. Then again, I can't say iOS4 gave me anything worth keeping (again, in my case). I was even researching on the options to reverse my 3Gs to iOS3.x. I finally gave up and settled with iOS4. Only advantage I have (the way I am using phone) is that with new OS my 3Gs is better handling poor 3G reception and will more reliably fall back to 2G (previously it was much more keen to give me "No Service" even if 2G coverage was fine)... but it has handful of glitches, like Stanza not always keeping the last book opened but reverting to the library when restarted.
That's one of the worst things about Android - all the different phones. Apple is much easier all the way around, from initial selection, to instant setup, to intuitive use.
Everybody is confused by all this Android/DROID/Whatever stuff with 17 different operating systems and you don't even know what to do.
My experience:
What was my iPod Touch? 2nd gen? I can't remember... it does have GPS. Which gen was GPS added? I can't remember that either. I wonder which IOS 4 features will work? Hmm... guess I will try and see. Orientation lock would be cool, but nothing happens when I double-click the home button... what the..??
Let's see... I wonder if this new multi-touch update will enable inertial scrolling on my MacBook Pro. Now when did I buy that thing? Heck, I can't remember. I think it was "early 2009", but then again it was refurbished, so maybe it is actually a "mid 2008" model? Heck if I know...
The Apple naming system is just as confusing... model numbers are the only sure way to keep them straight, but the average person has no interest in memorizing those.
OK. I"ll accept that.
Now, give us the sales of any individual model of the latest 16 GB Androids.
You can't have it both ways. You can't claim that Android is doing better than Apple based on ALL Android phone sales and then ask us to ignore all the highest volume BOGO phones.
Not that great for the manufacturers' bottom line, however.
The manufacturer gets the same amount per phone if it is Bogo or normal price. Verizon pays the same amount per phone to motorola either way.
So Verizon sells a droid X at 199: They paid Motorola 500+ for the device (plus any activation royalties)
Verizon does a BOGO on the droidx and sells 2 for 199, they paid 1000 for the devices (plus any activation royalties)
Bogos are GREAT for manufacturers
One quarter does not a trend make.
Try 3+ quarters
That's one of the worst things about Android - all the different phones. Apple is much easier all the way around, from initial selection, to instant setup, to intuitive use.
Everybody is confused by all this Android/DROID/Whatever stuff with 17 different operating systems and you don't even know what to do.
Conversely, very few (if any, besides you) appear to be remotely 'confused' about the Android OS, as they all have at least one Android offering supported by their carrier and accept/understand that it's just a different phone with the same OS as any other Android smartphone. (think Windows 7 running successfully on Hp, Dell, Lenovo, Apple, etc).
Contrary to what some (would lead others to believe), buyer choice is one of the most obvious benefits of having so many Android OS-based smartphones in that that it affords the consumer a variety of screen sizes, keyboard options, form-factors, and (yes) aesthetics, while still lending an overall 'operational familiarity to all of them.
Another plus is that having such a wide variety of Android smartphones affords developers a much larger customer-base in which to sells their apps, (ideally) much more than a manufacturer who adopts a one size fits all approach.
Choice Is Good
I would say only android 2 and above has feature parity and in some cases like maps better features then the iPhone. That is about 50% of androids according to last surveys I saw here and 9 5 mac.
Over time Android's lead will increase simply because it can power anything from a grandma phone to Evo 4G, while apple operates at high end only.
Personally, That's what I (and many others) like most about Android-based smartphones... C H O I C E
Android is infinitely customizable in almost every way, designed to function/look the way most beneficial to the user, not just an appliance that forces the user to accept what has been given to them.
Um, how can an appliance that ONE FREELY CHOOSES to buy "force" them to "accept" some integral aspect of the appliance? It's like going to The Olive Garden for dinner and then complaining that you are "forced" to eat Italian food.
Yesterday morning I OTAd my DROID to Android Froyo/2.2 and asked the spouse to use it for the day instead of the usual iPhone4 just to see what the reaction would be.
This is impossible. No spouse would agree to that. Where are her contacts, email, txt accounts, bookmarks, etc. That is just preposterous. No woman I have ever met would go along with that unless you copied all of her data to the new phone. And why would you go through that laborious process just to see her reaction. BS.
Furthermore:Why would you immediately after upgrading, subject your spouse to potential unknown issues before you even gave it a day to test if everything was working properly? I don't think you'll stay married long if that is how little regard you have for your spouse.
AWESOME smartphone, dude. My Motorola is officially for sale!
10 years ago, there were around 7,000 US carriers. While that number has shrunk considerably since, there are still hundreds to thousands of US carriers. We just very rarely hear about them.
Combined the top 4 carriers have about 80% of the market. So 19% of smartphones sold to other carriers is about right.
Thank you! I didn't think anyone was going to answer my question. It's amazing to think there could be so many carriers and hard to imagine how the market would actually work or how the smaller carriers would survive. It must make choosing a carrier very difficult. In Canada we only have three or four large companies, three or four smaller but well known companies, and a couple of very small ones, plus some regional ones. I can't imagine what it would be like to have 10 or more small carriers in every single state, when we don't have much more than 10 in the whole country.
AWESOME smartphone, dude. My Motorola is officially for sale!
Actually that is a sweet phone. Not pocketable but it probably gets 5 bars 50 miles out to sea and outputs 5w of power. The antenna is well above the user's head for reduced radiation exposure and it can withstand plenty of drops onto the sidewalk without consequence.
Um, how can an appliance that ONE FREELY CHOOSES to buy "force" them to "accept" some integral aspect of the appliance? It's like going to The Olive Garden for dinner and then complaining that you are "forced" to eat Italian food.
Say you really like the iOS ecosystem, but for whatever reason you want a physical keyboard... you can either choose to accept a phone without a keyboard or find another OS.
Say that someone likes android (heavy gmail user) but they want a phone with a keyboard. They have an array of options. Or one without a keyboard. again, an array of options.
This way your choice in OS doesn't dictate what kind/style of device you need to get.
To use your example, it's like someone liking Italian food, and the only choices being olive garden.