FTC believed to be investigating Apple's anti-Flash stance

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  • Reply 121 of 348
    monstrositymonstrosity Posts: 2,182member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Habañero View Post


    Show us.





    Show you what?
  • Reply 122 of 348
    lolwatlolwat Posts: 3member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Since this seems to be the kernel of so many arguments here, I have to wonder out loud what it means, or implies. Should laws only be enforced by torts? Should we do away with District Attorneys, Grand Juries, and maybe even police departments?



    For the most part, yes. They are aggression incarnate.
  • Reply 123 of 348
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LOLWAT View Post


    ....



    Extra CPU cycles on Mac: Apple doesn't allow Adobe to use the GPU for non-video content, and they can only use it for video content if the video is h.264 encoded and ONLY on a handful of newer devices using specific GPU's. On top of that, studies show that HTML 5 isn't significantly more efficient across the board (and is actually less efficant on windows machines, largely because on windows, Flash can use the GPU at will.



    Security: You mean like how you can Jailbreak ios devices from the browser? Yes, the exploit is getting fixed via an update.. kinda like how flash exploits are fixed. You could also do what Google did with Chrome and build flash directly into the browser (no longer a plugin) so when there is a flash update, your browser applies it automatically. No system is secure. One of the reasons flash has so many exploits is because it's everywhere. More people will exploit iOS/html5 as it continues to gain popularity.



    Laziness: You do realize that HTML5 just really became a contender for video THIS YEAR, and it's still years away from replacing flash in other content right? And that the standard is still a work in progress, so a lot can change. On top of that, Apple's chosen codec for video (h.264) is one that Mozilla, the second largest browser by users in the world, doesn't support. (and the largest browser, IE, still sucks at HTML5 unless you're using the beta. So these developers have no choice but to USE flash for the foreseeable future.



    IE is getting heavy html5 support soon (but it's still years behind chrome/safari when it comes to supported API's) and with the new WebM format, Mozilla has an alternative when it comes to html5 video. But will Apple support WebM? Flash gets around these codec issues because it's a wrapper for video, but if flash doesn't work on a device, say an iphone, what happens if webM becomes the codec of choice for iphone users and apple doesn't adopt it?



    Don't call developers "lazy" when it comes to flash. It's the single platform that will hit the most potential users, and HTML5 is still in a lot of flux for a lot of developers to commit to developing for two platforms. HTML5 is the future of video, but it's still not there yet, and it's years from being ready for other content.
  • Reply 124 of 348
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Since this seems to be the kernel of so many arguments here, I have to wonder out loud what it means, or implies. Should laws only be enforced by torts? Should we do away with District Attorneys, Grand Juries, and maybe even police departments?



    I don't think it really means going that far. It's hard to put into words, but it does seem like people and corporations run to government entities and the judicial system too often.



    It seems that because Adobe can't force Apple to support the product of their products, so they'll complain to some higher power to do it for them. It probably doesn't cost them anything though. I don't really see where they'll get traction, but if it's the thought that counts, I don't know if I like that thought. I'm not seeing the crime, and I'm not seeing where the technology markets are harmed, because there are plenty of other platforms that Adobe supports with their products.
  • Reply 125 of 348
    monstrositymonstrosity Posts: 2,182member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Habañero View Post


    No; I didn't make an assertion like Monstrosity did.





    I'm simply asking a question people; settle down.



    OK, when using Cocoa/Objective C, the foresight in the framework is incredible. I have learn't that if ever I think "why the hell did Apple do that" 99% of the time it becomes clear at a later date the reason why they chose that path.

    Whereas in Flash every day I screamed "why the hell did Adobe do that" but no answer ever came. Just visionless nonsense.

    I must admit I haven't touched Flash for two years, but I was a dev since the early nineties and prior to that I used Director.

    I used to be a big fan of Macromedia until Adobe bought them.

    I have used a multitude of frameworks and languages over the past 27 years, and most make my blood boil bar Cocoa.



    That aside, there are obvious (and huge) performance differences.
  • Reply 126 of 348
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LOLWAT View Post


    For the most part, yes. They are aggression incarnate.



    When people make statements like this, I have a suspicion that they are secretly happy to know that the world they've made up in their heads will never exist. If that wasn't the case, they'd already be living in some lawless country which suits their ideal concept of every man for himself. I can suggest a few in Africa.
  • Reply 127 of 348
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I don't think it really means going that far. It's hard to put into words, but it does seem like people and corporations run to government entities and the judicial system too often.



    It seems that because Adobe can't force Apple to support the product of their products, so they'll complain to some higher power to do it for them. It probably doesn't cost them anything though. I don't really see where they'll get traction, but if it's the thought that counts, I don't know if I like that thought.



    The irony is that the FTC and the Antitrust Division of the DoJ have been emasculated in recent decades. Any and all mergers, for instance, were routinely approved with only the most cursory review. Do we really benefit when the cops avert their eyes?



    Adobe can complain all they like -- just as you and I can about a neighbor's barking dog. That doesn't mean they're getting anywhere.
  • Reply 128 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    More random personal attacks in the absence of substance from the man who insists that "gross profit" is not a form of profit.



    You just don't know when to quit....



    Gross Profit is simply Revenue minus Cost of Goods Sold (the latter being a rough measure of direct costs). By itself, it's an intermediate metric that is somewhat meaningless, quite different from, say Profit (Net Income) or Cash Flow or, for that matter, even EBIT (Operating Income).



    What is the point you're trying to make?
  • Reply 129 of 348
    FTC ought to just bud-out. Government only makes matters worse and makes a mess of things. Government is the PROBLEM, NOT the solution!



    If Adobe really wants Flash on iPhone, release it on Cydia, OR make an Adobe Flash phone.
  • Reply 130 of 348
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    The irony is that the FTC and the Antitrust Division of the DoJ have been emasculated in recent decades. Any and all mergers, for instance, were routinely approved with only the most cursory review. Do we really benefit when the cops avert their eyes?



    I understand that, for example, I don't know if the cellular mergers have benefited anyone but the cellular companies, where it's closer to an oligopoly than it was before. I realize some countries have fewer cellular companies, but those countries generally have far smaller populations as well.



    Quote:

    Adobe can complain all they like -- just as you and I can about a neighbor's barking dog. That doesn't mean they're getting anywhere.



    You're right, I agree on this.



    Something else is that this might not even be happening anyway.
  • Reply 131 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LOLWAT View Post


    For the most part, yes. They are aggression incarnate.



    Lol. Let me guess. You must have grown up in the Sixties calling them 'pigs.'
  • Reply 132 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post


    Show you what?



    You wrote "As a Flash developer & an iOS dev, I can unequivocally conclude that Flash is a complete crock of shite in comparison."



    Show us the comparison.
  • Reply 133 of 348
    On the other hand, Government should be transparent, denying Wired's request is nonsense.



    On the flipside, Government really has NO BUSINESS in this matter!!!
  • Reply 134 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post


    OK, when using Cocoa/Objective C, the foresight in the framework is incredible. I have learn't that if ever I think "why the hell did Apple do that" 99% of the time it becomes clear at a later date the reason why they chose that path.

    Whereas in Flash every day I screamed "why the hell did Adobe do that" but no answer ever came. Just visionless nonsense.

    I must admit I haven't touched Flash for two years, but I was a dev since the early nineties and prior to that I used Director.

    I used to be a big fan of Macromedia until Adobe bought them.

    I have used a multitude of frameworks and languages over the past 27 years, and most make my blood boil bar Cocoa.



    That aside, there are obvious (and huge) performance differences.



    Just because you may not be familiar with the current version of ActionScript, or don't know how to use it, does not mean anything. That would be like me saying about Objective-C (with which I'm not familiar) "That seems really hard and unintuitive, it's shite."



    As I thought when you made your assertion, it's baseless hyperbole (but thanks for your input).
  • Reply 135 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I don't think it really means going that far. It's hard to put into words, but it does seem like people and corporations run to government entities and the judicial system too often.



    It seems that because Adobe can't force Apple to support the product of their products, so they'll complain to some higher power to do it for them. It probably doesn't cost them anything though. I don't really see where they'll get traction, but if it's the thought that counts, I don't know if I like that thought. I'm not seeing the crime, and I'm not seeing where the technology markets are harmed, because there are plenty of other platforms that Adobe supports with their products.



    Any citizen -- that includes corporations, even foreign corporations doing business in the US -- has the right to petition government. Once petitioned (and assuming the complaint is not an unreasonable or outlandish one), the government (pretty much) has an obligation to look into it.



    As Millmoss has pointed out, nothing at all may come out of it.



    Incidentally, it is not much different in the EU. Lately, they have been even more aggressive in matters like these.
  • Reply 136 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Habañero View Post


    You wrote "As a Flash developer & an iOS dev, I can unequivocally conclude that Flash is a complete crock of shite in comparison."



    Show us the comparison.



    Wow, you are beginning to sound like a stuck record. (Remember those? )
  • Reply 137 of 348
    shobizshobiz Posts: 207member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Habañero View Post


    but I didn't express a side!!



    I didn't say I had experience in both AS3 and Objective c, and one "was shite" compared to the other.



    I didn't say he was wrong; I invited him to share his rationale (which he still hasn't)







    Whatever man. Protest too much....
  • Reply 138 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post


    Whatever man. Protest too much....



    comprehend English too little.
  • Reply 139 of 348
    ibillibill Posts: 391member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post


    I'm fine with it. and Apple needs to loosen up on Flash. I want it and so does everybody else. flash is not an old technology. it is one that was ahead of its time.



    Speak for yourself. I want Flash to die, and tomorrow isn't soon enough.
  • Reply 140 of 348
    lolwatlolwat Posts: 3member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Lol. Let me guess. You must have grown up in the Sixties calling them 'pigs.'



    Respect is to be earned, not donated. They do nothing to earn it.
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