Stop being obtuse, you know full well it?s a glitch, just like all the glitches that have affected performance of all devices since HW and SW first met.
Do I?
The fact is iOS4 takes up around an extra 8MB of RAM, which is quite a bit when an app only had 40MB to play with before iOS4. The extra services running such as the dictionary stuff take extra CPU cycles. My wife had to upgrade to an iPhone 4 because the performance of iOS4 on her 3G was so piss poor.
I KNOW no such thing regarding it being a glitch, and glitch or not it still doesn't change the fact that iOS4 causes iPhone 3G to perform worse, does it?
And could the same not be said about Android 2.2, let's not use a different set of rules to measure different software.
The fact is iOS4 takes up around an extra 8MB of RAM, which is quite a bit when an app only had 40MB to play with before iOS4. The extra services running such as the dictionary stuff take extra CPU cycles. My wife had to upgrade to an iPhone 4 because the performance of iOS4 on her 3G was so piss poor.
I KNOW no such thing regarding it being a glitch, and glitch or not it still doesn't change the fact that iOS4 causes iPhone 3G to perform worse, does it?
And could the same not be said about Android 2.2, let's not use a different set of rules to measure different software.
You?ve read that it doesn?t affect every iPhone 3G. you?ve read comments from posters claiming that their iPhone 3G runs great with v4.0, and you?ve probably seen the report that Apple is looking into the iPhone 3G slowdown issue.
You may have also read about Apple Stores giving customers a refurbished iPhone 3G with 4.0 if their iPhone 3G had the issue and that v4.1, still in Beta, resolves the issue with the slow down.
Then there is this comment of iOS 4.0 using 8MB more under iPhone 3G. I haven?t seen this stated elsewhere but It does sound reasonable. What doesn?t sound reasonable is that this 8MB of extra RAM needed for the iOS 4.0 would cause it take several seconds for a character to be types and minutes for the Messages app to open. Not to mention that every iPhone 3G has the same amount of RAM and yet others are able to work as fast as one would expect them to.
PS: Your wife WANTED to get the iPhone 4. She was not forced. You can blame Apple for a major and inconvenient software glitch but you can?t blame Apple for your negligent action in downgrading to iOS 3.1.3, not inquiring with Apple to get this resolved, or for spending more on an iPhone 4.
Stop being obtuse, you know full well it?s a glitch, just like all the glitches that have affected performance of all devices since HW and SW first met.
The iOS 4 slowdown is no glitch affecting only a small number of users, it's a fact of life. Even with multitasking disabled the OS is too big and resource hungry for devices with only 128MB of RAM and 412MHz processors.
Apple designed it that way on purpose. A major new OS version must be impressive even if it requires better hardware. People will whine and complain, but most will eventually shut up and buy new hardware so they can take full advantage of the new OS.
The iOS 4 slowdown is no glitch affecting only a small number of users, it's a fact of life. Even with multitasking disabled the OS is too big and resource hungry for devices with only 128MB of RAM and 412MHz processors.
Apple designed it that way on purpose. A major new OS version must be impressive even if it requires better hardware. People will whine and complain, but most will eventually shut up and buy new hardware so they can take full advantage of the new OS.
You really want to go on record as saying Apple designed iOS 4.0 for the 3G to force you to buy a new iPhone for it to be usable? You are seriously saying that Apple pulled pieces from iOS 4.0 to make sure it was a good balance of new features and speed, but then decided to make the phone virtually unusual, but failed to make every iPhone 3G be affected? And you are actually trying to say that Apple has decided to risk a class action lawsuit from intentional harm to their user?s devices instead of simply saying that the iPhone 3G will have to stay at 3.1.3? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!
You really want to go on record as saying Apple designed iOS 4.0 for the 3G to force you to buy a new iPhone for it to be usable? You are seriously saying that Apple pulled pieces from iOS 4.0 to make sure it was a good balance of new features and speed, but then decided to make the phone virtually unusual, but failed to make every iPhone 3G be affected? And you are actually trying to say that Apple has decided to risk a class action lawsuit from intentional harm to their user?s devices instead of simply saying that the iPhone 3G will have to stay at 3.1.3? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody designs new software for old hardware. It's designed to be impressive on this year's stuff and if it happens to run reasonably well on older devices that's a bonus.
Apple knew the OS was going to be slow on older equipment and did two very customer friendly things. First they completely blocked installation on first generation hardware. Then they disabled a number of features so those with second generation devices could see some of the new features, get hooked on them and decide to upgrade their hardware to take full advantage of the new OS.
I don't think anyone in upper management at Apple paid a minute more attention to 3G units than that. It wasn't malicious, it was simply the kind of neglect you should expect from a company that's always looking years into the future and finds it hard to remember that their users don't.
I work in the app business. Almost everyone I know has at least one iPhone or touch and many of their friends do too. Not one person in that great circle of friends, including non-geeks like jazz musicians and grandparents, is happy with the performance of iOS 4 on the iPhone 3G.
So out there on the internet there are some people with low expectations who are happy with iOS 4 on their iPhone 3G. Good for them.
I have so far only heard 1 person that is having a slower experience with Froyo. Maybe when Froyo is released more widely there will be more problems. But as of now, I am sticking with my original contention: anyone saying Froyo is slower on a recent Droid phone is either exceptional or spreading FUD. The 3G on 4.0 problems are much more widespread. They're not even in the same league. And FYI, I am speaking as someone who has a 3G and upgraded to 4.0. It is like moving through molasses.
Here are the IPSW files for names for the iPhone 3G and the iPhone 4. Note that the file names indicate which iPhone the update is for. This is because of different HW from YoY models.
iPhone1,2_4.0_8A293_Restore.ipsw
iPhone3,1_4.0_8A293_Restore.ipsw
There is no one-size-fits-all or make-it-for-the-latest-iPhone-and-hopefully-we get lucky-with-it running-at-all-on-older-iPhones installer. Different installers designed to be optimized for different HW.
In conclusion, if Apple didn?t design iOS 4.0 to run on the iPhone 3G there would be no officially supported iPhone 3G upgrade path to iOS 4.0 or an IPSW file that you can DL yourself that clearly indicates the build for that device?s HW.
The 3G isn't really a recent phone. The hardware is over two years old. Apple continued to sell it at a discounted price. Really you would want to compare Froyo running on a phone with comparable hardware not more recent hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash
I have so far only heard 1 person that is having a slower experience with Froyo. Maybe when Froyo is released more widely there will be more problems. But as of now, I am sticking with my original contention: anyone saying Froyo is slower on a recent Droid phone is either exceptional or spreading FUD. The 3G on 4.0 problems are much more widespread. They're not even in the same league. And FYI, I am speaking as someone who has a 3G and upgraded to 4.0. It is like moving through molasses.
The 3G isn't really a recent phone. The hardware is over two years old. Apple continued to sell it at a discounted price. Really you would want to compare Froyo running on a phone with comparable hardware not more recent hardware.
I thought he was talking about FroYo on a Droid, which stock hardware-wise, is pretty comparable to a 3GS. FroYo and a overclocking kernel can bring it up pretty close to the iPhone 4, which is fairly impressive in my books.
We're talking about the 3G not the 3GS, which "DROID" are you talking about there are about five of them now.
I would like to see some official testing of over clocking and performing like the iPhone 4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob
I thought he was talking about FroYo on a Droid, which stock hardware-wise, is pretty comparable to a 3GS. FroYo and a overclocking kernel can bring it up pretty close to the iPhone 4, which is fairly impressive in my books.
We're talking about the 3G not the 3GS, which "DROID" are you talking about there are about five of them now.
I would like to see some official testing of over clocking and performing like the iPhone 4.
I drop the "Droid" name when talking about Verizon's phones. So I'll refer to them as the Incredible, X, Eris. And when I say Droid, I mean the original one.
I don't know exactly what benchmark program would be considered "baseline" to both platforms. The testing I did was grab a friend's iPhone 4 and run programs that are available on both or similar programs where not.
I found that intensive apps like Google Earth will load faster initially on the iPhone 4, but repeated loads are faster on the Droid. Non-intensive apps load in roughly the same time. Some times the iPhone wins, some times the Droid wins.
I didn't frame my statement quite right. I do believe you can get your Android phone to run as fast as the iPhone 4. I would like to see more testing of the practical usability of this over clocking.
When you over clock you are not just getting all gain and no pain. You are forcing the CPU to run more clock cycles than it was designed and this comes with some costs. Then comparing it to a CPU that actually does run more clock cycles efficiently. Its not a 1:1 gain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob
I don't know exactly what benchmark program would be considered "baseline" to both platforms. The testing I did was grab a friend's iPhone 4 and run programs that are available on both or similar programs where not.
I found that intensive apps like Google Earth will load faster initially on the iPhone 4, but repeated loads are faster on the Droid. Non-intensive apps load in roughly the same time. Some times the iPhone wins, some times the Droid wins.
I didn't frame my statement quite right. I do believe you can get your Android phone to run as fast as the iPhone 4. I would like to see more testing of the practical usability of this over clocking.
When you over clock you are not just getting all gain and no pain. You are forcing the CPU to run more clock cycles than it was designed and this comes with some costs. Then comparing it to a CPU that actually does run more clock cycles efficiently. Its not a 1:1 gain.
Oh, I'm very well aware of this. I've very surprised that I can get it up to 1 Ghz stable, considering the 550 Mhz (well, 600 Mhz) stock speed. Others who really want to push it have been running up to 1.2 Ghz stable.
Running intensive apps for a while does cause it to heat up a bit, so I know I'm killing the processor's overall life. The app I use does throttle the CPU depending on need so when idle, it drops back to 550 Mhz and when the screen is off, it'll drop down to 250 Mhz.
Comments
Stop being obtuse, you know full well it?s a glitch, just like all the glitches that have affected performance of all devices since HW and SW first met.
Do I?
The fact is iOS4 takes up around an extra 8MB of RAM, which is quite a bit when an app only had 40MB to play with before iOS4. The extra services running such as the dictionary stuff take extra CPU cycles. My wife had to upgrade to an iPhone 4 because the performance of iOS4 on her 3G was so piss poor.
I KNOW no such thing regarding it being a glitch, and glitch or not it still doesn't change the fact that iOS4 causes iPhone 3G to perform worse, does it?
And could the same not be said about Android 2.2, let's not use a different set of rules to measure different software.
Do I?
The fact is iOS4 takes up around an extra 8MB of RAM, which is quite a bit when an app only had 40MB to play with before iOS4. The extra services running such as the dictionary stuff take extra CPU cycles. My wife had to upgrade to an iPhone 4 because the performance of iOS4 on her 3G was so piss poor.
I KNOW no such thing regarding it being a glitch, and glitch or not it still doesn't change the fact that iOS4 causes iPhone 3G to perform worse, does it?
And could the same not be said about Android 2.2, let's not use a different set of rules to measure different software.
You?ve read that it doesn?t affect every iPhone 3G. you?ve read comments from posters claiming that their iPhone 3G runs great with v4.0, and you?ve probably seen the report that Apple is looking into the iPhone 3G slowdown issue.
You may have also read about Apple Stores giving customers a refurbished iPhone 3G with 4.0 if their iPhone 3G had the issue and that v4.1, still in Beta, resolves the issue with the slow down.
Then there is this comment of iOS 4.0 using 8MB more under iPhone 3G. I haven?t seen this stated elsewhere but It does sound reasonable. What doesn?t sound reasonable is that this 8MB of extra RAM needed for the iOS 4.0 would cause it take several seconds for a character to be types and minutes for the Messages app to open. Not to mention that every iPhone 3G has the same amount of RAM and yet others are able to work as fast as one would expect them to.
PS: Your wife WANTED to get the iPhone 4. She was not forced. You can blame Apple for a major and inconvenient software glitch but you can?t blame Apple for your negligent action in downgrading to iOS 3.1.3, not inquiring with Apple to get this resolved, or for spending more on an iPhone 4.
Stop being obtuse, you know full well it?s a glitch, just like all the glitches that have affected performance of all devices since HW and SW first met.
The iOS 4 slowdown is no glitch affecting only a small number of users, it's a fact of life. Even with multitasking disabled the OS is too big and resource hungry for devices with only 128MB of RAM and 412MHz processors.
Apple designed it that way on purpose. A major new OS version must be impressive even if it requires better hardware. People will whine and complain, but most will eventually shut up and buy new hardware so they can take full advantage of the new OS.
The iOS 4 slowdown is no glitch affecting only a small number of users, it's a fact of life. Even with multitasking disabled the OS is too big and resource hungry for devices with only 128MB of RAM and 412MHz processors.
Apple designed it that way on purpose. A major new OS version must be impressive even if it requires better hardware. People will whine and complain, but most will eventually shut up and buy new hardware so they can take full advantage of the new OS.
You really want to go on record as saying Apple designed iOS 4.0 for the 3G to force you to buy a new iPhone for it to be usable? You are seriously saying that Apple pulled pieces from iOS 4.0 to make sure it was a good balance of new features and speed, but then decided to make the phone virtually unusual, but failed to make every iPhone 3G be affected? And you are actually trying to say that Apple has decided to risk a class action lawsuit from intentional harm to their user?s devices instead of simply saying that the iPhone 3G will have to stay at 3.1.3? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!
You really want to go on record as saying Apple designed iOS 4.0 for the 3G to force you to buy a new iPhone for it to be usable? You are seriously saying that Apple pulled pieces from iOS 4.0 to make sure it was a good balance of new features and speed, but then decided to make the phone virtually unusual, but failed to make every iPhone 3G be affected? And you are actually trying to say that Apple has decided to risk a class action lawsuit from intentional harm to their user?s devices instead of simply saying that the iPhone 3G will have to stay at 3.1.3? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody designs new software for old hardware. It's designed to be impressive on this year's stuff and if it happens to run reasonably well on older devices that's a bonus.
Apple knew the OS was going to be slow on older equipment and did two very customer friendly things. First they completely blocked installation on first generation hardware. Then they disabled a number of features so those with second generation devices could see some of the new features, get hooked on them and decide to upgrade their hardware to take full advantage of the new OS.
I don't think anyone in upper management at Apple paid a minute more attention to 3G units than that. It wasn't malicious, it was simply the kind of neglect you should expect from a company that's always looking years into the future and finds it hard to remember that their users don't.
I work in the app business. Almost everyone I know has at least one iPhone or touch and many of their friends do too. Not one person in that great circle of friends, including non-geeks like jazz musicians and grandparents, is happy with the performance of iOS 4 on the iPhone 3G.
So out there on the internet there are some people with low expectations who are happy with iOS 4 on their iPhone 3G. Good for them.
Don't be obtuse and stop spreadimg FUD you know very well Apple trimmed 4.0 to make it viable for the 3G and this is the exact same thing.
I'm not being obtuse. The iPhone 3G forums have 977 pages for the following problem: "Iphone 3G slow after update to IOS4"
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....75859&tstart=0
I have so far only heard 1 person that is having a slower experience with Froyo. Maybe when Froyo is released more widely there will be more problems. But as of now, I am sticking with my original contention: anyone saying Froyo is slower on a recent Droid phone is either exceptional or spreading FUD. The 3G on 4.0 problems are much more widespread. They're not even in the same league. And FYI, I am speaking as someone who has a 3G and upgraded to 4.0. It is like moving through molasses.
Nobody designs new software for old hardware.
Except pretty much everyone.
Here are the IPSW files for names for the iPhone 3G and the iPhone 4. Note that the file names indicate which iPhone the update is for. This is because of different HW from YoY models.There is no one-size-fits-all or make-it-for-the-latest-iPhone-and-hopefully-we get lucky-with-it running-at-all-on-older-iPhones installer. Different installers designed to be optimized for different HW.
In conclusion, if Apple didn?t design iOS 4.0 to run on the iPhone 3G there would be no officially supported iPhone 3G upgrade path to iOS 4.0 or an IPSW file that you can DL yourself that clearly indicates the build for that device?s HW.
I have so far only heard 1 person that is having a slower experience with Froyo. Maybe when Froyo is released more widely there will be more problems. But as of now, I am sticking with my original contention: anyone saying Froyo is slower on a recent Droid phone is either exceptional or spreading FUD. The 3G on 4.0 problems are much more widespread. They're not even in the same league. And FYI, I am speaking as someone who has a 3G and upgraded to 4.0. It is like moving through molasses.
The 3G isn't really a recent phone. The hardware is over two years old. Apple continued to sell it at a discounted price. Really you would want to compare Froyo running on a phone with comparable hardware not more recent hardware.
I thought he was talking about FroYo on a Droid, which stock hardware-wise, is pretty comparable to a 3GS. FroYo and a overclocking kernel can bring it up pretty close to the iPhone 4, which is fairly impressive in my books.
I would like to see some official testing of over clocking and performing like the iPhone 4.
I thought he was talking about FroYo on a Droid, which stock hardware-wise, is pretty comparable to a 3GS. FroYo and a overclocking kernel can bring it up pretty close to the iPhone 4, which is fairly impressive in my books.
I totally agree. The iPhone is the ONLY attractive phone they have....
We're talking about the 3G not the 3GS, which "DROID" are you talking about there are about five of them now.
I would like to see some official testing of over clocking and performing like the iPhone 4.
I drop the "Droid" name when talking about Verizon's phones. So I'll refer to them as the Incredible, X, Eris. And when I say Droid, I mean the original one.
I don't know exactly what benchmark program would be considered "baseline" to both platforms. The testing I did was grab a friend's iPhone 4 and run programs that are available on both or similar programs where not.
I found that intensive apps like Google Earth will load faster initially on the iPhone 4, but repeated loads are faster on the Droid. Non-intensive apps load in roughly the same time. Some times the iPhone wins, some times the Droid wins.
When you over clock you are not just getting all gain and no pain. You are forcing the CPU to run more clock cycles than it was designed and this comes with some costs. Then comparing it to a CPU that actually does run more clock cycles efficiently. Its not a 1:1 gain.
I don't know exactly what benchmark program would be considered "baseline" to both platforms. The testing I did was grab a friend's iPhone 4 and run programs that are available on both or similar programs where not.
I found that intensive apps like Google Earth will load faster initially on the iPhone 4, but repeated loads are faster on the Droid. Non-intensive apps load in roughly the same time. Some times the iPhone wins, some times the Droid wins.
I didn't frame my statement quite right. I do believe you can get your Android phone to run as fast as the iPhone 4. I would like to see more testing of the practical usability of this over clocking.
When you over clock you are not just getting all gain and no pain. You are forcing the CPU to run more clock cycles than it was designed and this comes with some costs. Then comparing it to a CPU that actually does run more clock cycles efficiently. Its not a 1:1 gain.
Oh, I'm very well aware of this. I've very surprised that I can get it up to 1 Ghz stable, considering the 550 Mhz (well, 600 Mhz) stock speed. Others who really want to push it have been running up to 1.2 Ghz stable.
Running intensive apps for a while does cause it to heat up a bit, so I know I'm killing the processor's overall life. The app I use does throttle the CPU depending on need so when idle, it drops back to 550 Mhz and when the screen is off, it'll drop down to 250 Mhz.
I'm a big fan of the various astronomy apps, but I couldn't find Sky Walk, I could only find Star Walk.
My mistake. It is Star Walk. Will correct.
Thanks for the notice.
My most used iPad apps: Skype, Dragon Dictation and now, Star Walk (an amazing app and well worth the price)