Actually the vulnerability had been public for some time, they just decided to use it while Apple took their sweet time releasing a patch they claimed to already have internally.
Many people in the community are very anti piracy, including members of the dev-team who repeatedly write publicly on the subject. There is also no evidence that apps cost more because of piracy and jailbreaking. In fact, other than TomTom, the most expensive apps I have bought are from Cydia. They have money on the line too!
Not enough to ensure that the quantity of pirated apps hasn't shown up in significant numbers on developer's responses to the issue. And while 'many' might work, certainly not most. As for your conclusion, it is an elementary conclusion that it has impacted pricing negatively. At this point the saving grace, I imagine, would be that it isn't impacted it much. Make it commonplace, though? Jailbreaking, that is. You will see the App Store lose the key factor which made it so much more lucrative to talented developers than any other platform.
Not enough to ensure that the quantity of pirated apps hasn't shown up in significant numbers on developer's responses to the issue. And while 'many' might work, certainly not most. As for your conclusion, it is an elementary conclusion that it has impacted pricing negatively. At this point the saving grace, I imagine, would be that it isn't impacted it much. Make it commonplace, though? Jailbreaking, that is. You will see the App Store lose the key factor which made it so much more lucrative to talented developers than any other platform.
And of course, every pirated app would have been purchased if it wasn't pirated.
I'll tell you one thing the jailbreakers did to the rest of us ...
They publicised a zero-day vulnerability in the iPhone and left every iPhone user in the world open to malicious hackers and viruses for the duration. This is actually what the article is about doncha know.
- They also enable massive theft of apps which raises the prices in the app store.
- Roughly 40% of them are thieves and steal apps themselves
- They publish endless dribble to forums like this about the benefits of jailbreaking
Jailbreaking is not illegal -- it's an unauthorized technology. The LOC has the authority to make exceptions in the interpretation of the DMCA. I'm also curious to know which precedents and common law principles youre referencing. And as for your bullet points, here's some information from people who have actually looked into the matter:
Gizmodo is not a good source for matters such as this.
You could probably come up with a much better link to describe the situation. Even before all the nonsense between Giz and Apple they were a shoddy source for this sort of thing, and today they've just become downright useless for issues related to Apple.
The slowness is from 4.0 not from the jailbreak, but, you can install 4.0.2 and have a clean, non-jailbroken phone again. Apple was also looking into 4.0 slowness so there may be some fixes in there as well. If not, go to settings and turn off the spotlight indexing. It can help a lot!
Oh no, 4.0 was not slow. It was around 20% faster than 3.1.3 for me. It was only after I jailbroke, enabling backgrounds and multitasking that it slowed down. I'd love to get back to my unjailbroken state. Thanks.
And of course, every pirated app would have been purchased if it wasn't pirated.
I am going to assume this is sarcasm, because stating this sincerely would be damn ignorant. Of course not every pirated version of an app would have actually been purchased. Most wouldn't have been. But many of them would have been, and that does have a material impact. Not that the folks who are using the software day-to-day, who wouldn't necessarily have actually purchased it, have an excuse either.
I attempted to update my 3GS iPhone and the update crashed it with no other option than to restore, which I am currently doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Apple on Wednesday patched a PDF exploit found in its mobile devices with iOS 4.0.2 for the iPhone and iPod touch, and iOS 3.2.2 for the iPad.
The updates address a security hole used by hackers to "jailbreak" the iPhone, iPod touch. The PDF exploit could also be used by hackers to gain remote control over an iOS device.
iOS 4.0.2 is available for the iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, and second- and third-generation iPod touch models. iOS 3.2.2 is for the iPad and iPad 3G.
Earlier this month, users released a browser-based hack that took advantage of a PDF exploit in Mobile Safari. The hack could allow users to run unauthorized code on their iOS devices through a process known as jailbreaking.
The jailbreak takes advantage of a PDF exploit that one prominent security expert called "scary." By tricking a user into simply visiting a website and loading corrupted PDFs through the iOS browser, a hacker could take control of an iOS device.
Apple quickly responded after the hack was made public, and said that it had already developed a fix for the issue. It said the PDF exploit would be plugged with a forthcoming update, which was released Wednesday in the form of iOS 4.0.2 and iOS 3.2.2.
For all of you iPhone 3G owners who experienced slowdowns after upgrading to iOS 4.0 I have some good news: it will be fixed ?soon?.
There were the problems I identified on my iPhone 3G with iOS 4.0: almost all apps have periods of slowdowns that interrupt otherwise acceptable performance, some apps are very slow after the first start (especially iBooks, to the point of uselessness), music playing on the background can be interrupted by other tasks, keyboard can pause too. I can?t say the device became ?slower? after updates, but clearly there?s some multi threading sync issue or task load balancing issue.
Suggestions like reboot, reset, restore turn off spotlight didn?t change anything. But iOS 4.1 beta 3 update did. It was noticeable right from the start: teh snappy is back.
Can?t tell if 4.0.2 has the fix too, so if you want to be on the safe side wait for 4.1 release. It will definitely solve performance issue.
For all of you iPhone 3G owners who experienced slowdowns after upgrading to iOS 4.0 I have some good news: it will be fixed ?soon?.
There were the problems I identified on my iPhone 3G with iOS 4.0: almost all apps have periods of slowdowns that interrupt otherwise acceptable performance, some apps are very slow after the first start (especially iBooks, to the point of uselessness), music playing on the background can be interrupted by other tasks, keyboard can pause too. I can?t say the device became ?slower? after updates, but clearly there?s some multi threading sync issue or task load balancing issue.
Suggestions like reboot, reset, restore turn off spotlight didn?t change anything. But iOS 4.1 beta 3 update did. It was noticeable right from the start: teh snappy is back.
Can?t tell if 4.0.2 has the fix too, so if you want to be on the safe side wait for 4.1 release. It will definitely solve performance issue.
Thank you Viktor,
This was the kind of information i was looking for in this thread.
Don't confuse jailbreaking with unlocking. Jailbreaking allows the install of non-appstore apps. Unlocking which they did not patch in the last few releases is opening the phone to use any GSM sim from carriers other than AT&T.
4.0.2 does disable the jailbreak, at least through the web page, but that is a side effect of fixing the gaping security hole they had. What they did not do is disable the unlock, which would not have been hard, and which they have done with past updates. That may be a sign that Apple is weighing their priorities differently or perhaps it is a sign of upcoming changes with regard to official unlocking.
No effect on unlocking? Hmmm. Wonder if a t-mobile announcement is imminent, which would allow any ATT iPhone to go over to T-mobile immediately (assuming the dreaded penalty isn't too much of a deterrent). I ran into T-mobile folks who couldn't get much coverage at the Oshkosh airshow this year, whereas ATT was no problem (it wasn't a T-mobile iphone).
Actually the vulnerability had been public for some time, they just decided to use it while Apple took their sweet time releasing a patch they claimed to already have internally.
I said "publicised" not "made public."
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict
Many people in the community are very anti piracy, including members of the dev-team who repeatedly write publicly on the subject. There is also no evidence that apps cost more because of piracy and jailbreaking. In fact, other than TomTom, the most expensive apps I have bought are from Cydia. They have money on the line too!
This is mostly irrelevant and not true. Regardless of their inner feelings or whatever, jailbreakers enable theft (piracy), pure and simple. Whether they mean to or not, whether they agree with it or not, are all irrelevant to the actual fact.
Several app makers have defended higher prices by saying that their apps have been stolen and that's the reason why. Several developers have also gone on the record as "thinking of raising the price" when they found out that 90% or their users were actually thieves. it could also be argued that the ancillary costs of supporting stolen apps (because the developer can't tell who is a legit owner), and the costs of security in general, contribute to the prices in the app store.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict
Seriously? I take it you have absolutely no experience with copyright, law, and government. The DMCA specifically gave them the authority to make the decisions they have made. The fact that the jailbreak remains necessary to use the device on another network besides AT&T also strongly supports its legality under the DMCA even without the recent ruling.
This is also a bit misleading at best.
The DCMA actually "outlaws" jailbreaking except for the recent decision by the Library of Congress that modified it. This made jailbreaking "legal," but only under certain specific circumstances, one of which as you correctly note, is the need to move to another carrier. The other is to install legal software that Apple doesn't allow in it's store.
So by definition, 40% of all jailbreaks are still explicitly "illegal" according to the DCMA because they are using the jailbreak to steal software. Some percentage of the rest are likely illegal as well.
Given that iPhone is already sold unlocked in many places and that the exclusivity arrangement with AT&T is about to end, it's likely that the whole "unlocking" reason will go away entirely in a very short time frame as well. So that will leave the only legal reason to jailbreak being the "need" to install some crappy app that was denied from the app store for some lame moral reason, like the boobies app or whatever.
Finally, it's you that don't understand the background here because you totally missed my last point which was that the recent decision by the Library of Congress used an unprecedented measure. To do the jailbreak at all, it's required that you use some of Apple's code. This has always been illegal. This recent decision however said that because it was only a "little bit" of code, it was okay.
For that reason I think it's a poor and possibly illegal decision by a body that doesn't really have the power to make it, and is just unjustifiable in my opinion.
A parallel might be that if I sold bicycles that had a patented anti-theft device built into it, the Library of congress is saying that it's okay for some hacker to use a bit of my bicycle locking technology to unlock the bicycle just because he needs the bicycle for something else. They are saying that a customer, simply by virtue of buying a device has the right to knowledge about every single part of it, how it works, how it's put together and the private IP and secret codes of the manufacturer, simply by virtue of them having paid a hundred bucks at the store for the bicycle.
I, and a lot of other people completely disagree that this is reasonable or (ultimately), legal.
305 MB download! For something that was written in a couple of weeks and doesn't have any media files, it seems a bit bloated. Who taught these guys to code?
Seriously, my 3GS (on 4.01) now gets lots of frozen screens and funny things happening, whereas my 3G phone (on 3.1.3 never did). A friend of mine, who is a programmer, has been ribbing his friend at Apple for creating the dreaded Bloatware, reminscent of MS - hopefully, this is not what is transpiring with each new iOS update. I am not a programmer, so don't have a clue.
Wow, Apple really doesn't want me to keep my iPhone 2g... now I can't even put personal stuff on since anyone can write a script and insert it in any webpage to crack my phone.
Problem is: that phone is entirely functional, the battery always tough the entire day no problem, it plays music like it did 2 years ago...and I have no money for a new phone!
I'll tell you one thing the jailbreakers did to the rest of us ...
They publicised a zero-day vulnerability in the iPhone and left every iPhone user in the world open to malicious hackers and viruses for the duration. This is actually what the article is about doncha know.
- They also enable massive theft of apps which raises the prices in the app store.
- Roughly 40% of them are thieves and steal apps themselves
- They publish endless dribble to forums like this about the benefits of jailbreaking
Jailbreaking is also still illegal really, given that the recent ruling by the Library of Congress seriously overstepped their authority and decided things that are completely unprecedented (like it's okay to steal Apple's code since it was only a "small amount"?). If they had followed precedent and common law principles, jailbreaking would never have even become the "quasi-legal" thing it is now and remained firmly "illegal."
Disclaimer - My phone's not jailbroken...
1. App prices are still pretty damn cheap. Free or $.99 rule the day for the most part. I've paid more for some apps and they've still been quite worthwhile. I have seen no hard evidence that your point regarding app piracy is actually having an impact on pricing in the app store. The developers may, or may not, choose to continue developing for the iPhone but what will they do? WIll they develop for Android where users are even less inclined to pay money for software? Software piracy has been an issue since users have had the ability to load programs on their computers/devices.
2. This exploit needed to be publicized. Yes, it could have been handled better, but in the end a fix has been produced to eliminate that particular vulnerability. If jailbreaking leads to discovery of flaws like this then isn't it acting as another level of quality assurance?
3. You got me there. Like I said above, I'm not jailbroken. I'd put forth that a noisy jailbreak zealot is no less irritating to listen to than any other noisy zealot.
Anyway, it's disingenuous to assume that all jailbroken phones are in the hands of piratey hackers up to no good. If I'm not mistaken, jailbreaking is a prerequisite for unlocking the iPhone. Many jailbreak just so they won't have to use AT&T. Would you suggest that people who are out of their contract obligation only be able to ever use their bought and paid for iPhone if they also use AT&T's network?
Comments
Actually the vulnerability had been public for some time, they just decided to use it while Apple took their sweet time releasing a patch they claimed to already have internally.
Linkity link.
Many people in the community are very anti piracy, including members of the dev-team who repeatedly write publicly on the subject. There is also no evidence that apps cost more because of piracy and jailbreaking. In fact, other than TomTom, the most expensive apps I have bought are from Cydia. They have money on the line too!
Not enough to ensure that the quantity of pirated apps hasn't shown up in significant numbers on developer's responses to the issue. And while 'many' might work, certainly not most. As for your conclusion, it is an elementary conclusion that it has impacted pricing negatively. At this point the saving grace, I imagine, would be that it isn't impacted it much. Make it commonplace, though? Jailbreaking, that is. You will see the App Store lose the key factor which made it so much more lucrative to talented developers than any other platform.
Linkity link.
Not enough to ensure that the quantity of pirated apps hasn't shown up in significant numbers on developer's responses to the issue. And while 'many' might work, certainly not most. As for your conclusion, it is an elementary conclusion that it has impacted pricing negatively. At this point the saving grace, I imagine, would be that it isn't impacted it much. Make it commonplace, though? Jailbreaking, that is. You will see the App Store lose the key factor which made it so much more lucrative to talented developers than any other platform.
And of course, every pirated app would have been purchased if it wasn't pirated.
I'll tell you one thing the jailbreakers did to the rest of us ...
They publicised a zero-day vulnerability in the iPhone and left every iPhone user in the world open to malicious hackers and viruses for the duration. This is actually what the article is about doncha know.
- They also enable massive theft of apps which raises the prices in the app store.
- Roughly 40% of them are thieves and steal apps themselves
- They publish endless dribble to forums like this about the benefits of jailbreaking
."
Thank you.
Jailbreaking is not illegal -- it's an unauthorized technology. The LOC has the authority to make exceptions in the interpretation of the DMCA. I'm also curious to know which precedents and common law principles youre referencing. And as for your bullet points, here's some information from people who have actually looked into the matter:
http://gizmodo.com/5477732/the-myth-...one-app-piracy
Gizmodo is not a good source for matters such as this.
You could probably come up with a much better link to describe the situation. Even before all the nonsense between Giz and Apple they were a shoddy source for this sort of thing, and today they've just become downright useless for issues related to Apple.
The slowness is from 4.0 not from the jailbreak, but, you can install 4.0.2 and have a clean, non-jailbroken phone again. Apple was also looking into 4.0 slowness so there may be some fixes in there as well. If not, go to settings and turn off the spotlight indexing. It can help a lot!
Oh no, 4.0 was not slow. It was around 20% faster than 3.1.3 for me. It was only after I jailbroke, enabling backgrounds and multitasking that it slowed down. I'd love to get back to my unjailbroken state. Thanks.
And of course, every pirated app would have been purchased if it wasn't pirated.
I am going to assume this is sarcasm, because stating this sincerely would be damn ignorant. Of course not every pirated version of an app would have actually been purchased. Most wouldn't have been. But many of them would have been, and that does have a material impact. Not that the folks who are using the software day-to-day, who wouldn't necessarily have actually purchased it, have an excuse either.
Does this update fix that?
What about the press release saying 4.0.2 would fix the proximity issues?
Does this update fix that?
No that was not the target of that update - that is still be addressed by another update.
What about the press release saying 4.0.2 would fix the proximity issues?
Does this update fix that?
There was speculation about the proximity sensor problem being fixed with software, but I don't remember a press release.
My boss had this problem and Apple Care told him to return it for a replacement, which he did. They said it was a bad batch of phones.
Apple on Wednesday patched a PDF exploit found in its mobile devices with iOS 4.0.2 for the iPhone and iPod touch, and iOS 3.2.2 for the iPad.
The updates address a security hole used by hackers to "jailbreak" the iPhone, iPod touch. The PDF exploit could also be used by hackers to gain remote control over an iOS device.
iOS 4.0.2 is available for the iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, and second- and third-generation iPod touch models. iOS 3.2.2 is for the iPad and iPad 3G.
Earlier this month, users released a browser-based hack that took advantage of a PDF exploit in Mobile Safari. The hack could allow users to run unauthorized code on their iOS devices through a process known as jailbreaking.
The jailbreak takes advantage of a PDF exploit that one prominent security expert called "scary." By tricking a user into simply visiting a website and loading corrupted PDFs through the iOS browser, a hacker could take control of an iOS device.
Apple quickly responded after the hack was made public, and said that it had already developed a fix for the issue. It said the PDF exploit would be plugged with a forthcoming update, which was released Wednesday in the form of iOS 4.0.2 and iOS 3.2.2.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
There were the problems I identified on my iPhone 3G with iOS 4.0: almost all apps have periods of slowdowns that interrupt otherwise acceptable performance, some apps are very slow after the first start (especially iBooks, to the point of uselessness), music playing on the background can be interrupted by other tasks, keyboard can pause too. I can?t say the device became ?slower? after updates, but clearly there?s some multi threading sync issue or task load balancing issue.
Suggestions like reboot, reset, restore turn off spotlight didn?t change anything. But iOS 4.1 beta 3 update did. It was noticeable right from the start: teh snappy is back.
Can?t tell if 4.0.2 has the fix too, so if you want to be on the safe side wait for 4.1 release. It will definitely solve performance issue.
Will it brick previously jailbroken iPhones? I sure hope so. Those Jailbreakers don't have any excuse left for what they do to us.
Get a grip
For all of you iPhone 3G owners who experienced slowdowns after upgrading to iOS 4.0 I have some good news: it will be fixed ?soon?.
There were the problems I identified on my iPhone 3G with iOS 4.0: almost all apps have periods of slowdowns that interrupt otherwise acceptable performance, some apps are very slow after the first start (especially iBooks, to the point of uselessness), music playing on the background can be interrupted by other tasks, keyboard can pause too. I can?t say the device became ?slower? after updates, but clearly there?s some multi threading sync issue or task load balancing issue.
Suggestions like reboot, reset, restore turn off spotlight didn?t change anything. But iOS 4.1 beta 3 update did. It was noticeable right from the start: teh snappy is back.
Can?t tell if 4.0.2 has the fix too, so if you want to be on the safe side wait for 4.1 release. It will definitely solve performance issue.
Thank you Viktor,
This was the kind of information i was looking for in this thread.
Don't confuse jailbreaking with unlocking. Jailbreaking allows the install of non-appstore apps. Unlocking which they did not patch in the last few releases is opening the phone to use any GSM sim from carriers other than AT&T.
4.0.2 does disable the jailbreak, at least through the web page, but that is a side effect of fixing the gaping security hole they had. What they did not do is disable the unlock, which would not have been hard, and which they have done with past updates. That may be a sign that Apple is weighing their priorities differently or perhaps it is a sign of upcoming changes with regard to official unlocking.
No effect on unlocking? Hmmm. Wonder if a t-mobile announcement is imminent, which would allow any ATT iPhone to go over to T-mobile immediately (assuming the dreaded penalty isn't too much of a deterrent). I ran into T-mobile folks who couldn't get much coverage at the Oshkosh airshow this year, whereas ATT was no problem (it wasn't a T-mobile iphone).
Actually the vulnerability had been public for some time, they just decided to use it while Apple took their sweet time releasing a patch they claimed to already have internally.
I said "publicised" not "made public."
Many people in the community are very anti piracy, including members of the dev-team who repeatedly write publicly on the subject. There is also no evidence that apps cost more because of piracy and jailbreaking. In fact, other than TomTom, the most expensive apps I have bought are from Cydia. They have money on the line too!
This is mostly irrelevant and not true. Regardless of their inner feelings or whatever, jailbreakers enable theft (piracy), pure and simple. Whether they mean to or not, whether they agree with it or not, are all irrelevant to the actual fact.
Several app makers have defended higher prices by saying that their apps have been stolen and that's the reason why. Several developers have also gone on the record as "thinking of raising the price" when they found out that 90% or their users were actually thieves. it could also be argued that the ancillary costs of supporting stolen apps (because the developer can't tell who is a legit owner), and the costs of security in general, contribute to the prices in the app store.
Seriously? I take it you have absolutely no experience with copyright, law, and government. The DMCA specifically gave them the authority to make the decisions they have made. The fact that the jailbreak remains necessary to use the device on another network besides AT&T also strongly supports its legality under the DMCA even without the recent ruling.
This is also a bit misleading at best.
The DCMA actually "outlaws" jailbreaking except for the recent decision by the Library of Congress that modified it. This made jailbreaking "legal," but only under certain specific circumstances, one of which as you correctly note, is the need to move to another carrier. The other is to install legal software that Apple doesn't allow in it's store.
So by definition, 40% of all jailbreaks are still explicitly "illegal" according to the DCMA because they are using the jailbreak to steal software. Some percentage of the rest are likely illegal as well.
Given that iPhone is already sold unlocked in many places and that the exclusivity arrangement with AT&T is about to end, it's likely that the whole "unlocking" reason will go away entirely in a very short time frame as well. So that will leave the only legal reason to jailbreak being the "need" to install some crappy app that was denied from the app store for some lame moral reason, like the boobies app or whatever.
Finally, it's you that don't understand the background here because you totally missed my last point which was that the recent decision by the Library of Congress used an unprecedented measure. To do the jailbreak at all, it's required that you use some of Apple's code. This has always been illegal. This recent decision however said that because it was only a "little bit" of code, it was okay.
For that reason I think it's a poor and possibly illegal decision by a body that doesn't really have the power to make it, and is just unjustifiable in my opinion.
A parallel might be that if I sold bicycles that had a patented anti-theft device built into it, the Library of congress is saying that it's okay for some hacker to use a bit of my bicycle locking technology to unlock the bicycle just because he needs the bicycle for something else. They are saying that a customer, simply by virtue of buying a device has the right to knowledge about every single part of it, how it works, how it's put together and the private IP and secret codes of the manufacturer, simply by virtue of them having paid a hundred bucks at the store for the bicycle.
I, and a lot of other people completely disagree that this is reasonable or (ultimately), legal.
305 MB download! For something that was written in a couple of weeks and doesn't have any media files, it seems a bit bloated. Who taught these guys to code?
Seriously, my 3GS (on 4.01) now gets lots of frozen screens and funny things happening, whereas my 3G phone (on 3.1.3 never did). A friend of mine, who is a programmer, has been ribbing his friend at Apple for creating the dreaded Bloatware, reminscent of MS - hopefully, this is not what is transpiring with each new iOS update. I am not a programmer, so don't have a clue.
Problem is: that phone is entirely functional, the battery always tough the entire day no problem, it plays music like it did 2 years ago...and I have no money for a new phone!
I tried the browser based jailbreak, but I found no real use to it
I'd rather be secure, then have the ability to change themes
I'll tell you one thing the jailbreakers did to the rest of us ...
They publicised a zero-day vulnerability in the iPhone and left every iPhone user in the world open to malicious hackers and viruses for the duration. This is actually what the article is about doncha know.
- They also enable massive theft of apps which raises the prices in the app store.
- Roughly 40% of them are thieves and steal apps themselves
- They publish endless dribble to forums like this about the benefits of jailbreaking
Jailbreaking is also still illegal really, given that the recent ruling by the Library of Congress seriously overstepped their authority and decided things that are completely unprecedented (like it's okay to steal Apple's code since it was only a "small amount"?). If they had followed precedent and common law principles, jailbreaking would never have even become the "quasi-legal" thing it is now and remained firmly "illegal."
Disclaimer - My phone's not jailbroken...
1. App prices are still pretty damn cheap. Free or $.99 rule the day for the most part. I've paid more for some apps and they've still been quite worthwhile. I have seen no hard evidence that your point regarding app piracy is actually having an impact on pricing in the app store. The developers may, or may not, choose to continue developing for the iPhone but what will they do? WIll they develop for Android where users are even less inclined to pay money for software? Software piracy has been an issue since users have had the ability to load programs on their computers/devices.
2. This exploit needed to be publicized. Yes, it could have been handled better, but in the end a fix has been produced to eliminate that particular vulnerability. If jailbreaking leads to discovery of flaws like this then isn't it acting as another level of quality assurance?
3. You got me there. Like I said above, I'm not jailbroken. I'd put forth that a noisy jailbreak zealot is no less irritating to listen to than any other noisy zealot.
Anyway, it's disingenuous to assume that all jailbroken phones are in the hands of piratey hackers up to no good. If I'm not mistaken, jailbreaking is a prerequisite for unlocking the iPhone. Many jailbreak just so they won't have to use AT&T. Would you suggest that people who are out of their contract obligation only be able to ever use their bought and paid for iPhone if they also use AT&T's network?