FBI/CIA knew of plot before 9/11
I'm shocked. I can't believe what has unfolded over the past two weeks. Basically, our government, the one that told us that 9/11 came out of the blue, the one that told us there was no advance warning, the one that gave MORE FUNDING to the CIA and FBI for intelligence so this wouldn't happen, KNEW about the terrorist threat before the attacks.
All that talk about 'we need better intelligence because we didn't see this coming' and 'there was nothing we could do' was complete BS.
The latest revelation is that Bush himself was informed of the plot, but he claims that he didn't know that the pilots were going to fly planes into the buildings.
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/16/politics/16INQU.html"; target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/16/politics/16INQU.html</a>;
What I want to know is this: WHY DIDN'T THEY DO ANYTHING? They had the information about the pilots training inside the country, but all they did was put them on watch lists. They knew about the Al Qaeda plot to hijack planes, and they didn't stop these men from getting on planes. They knew Bin Laden was planning a major terrorist operation, and they were still not stopped. There was even an FBI document which directly outlined the fear that they might try and fly a plane into the World Trade Center. There is even a suspected document which shows that they might try and fly planes into government buildings (Pentagon, White House, etc.), but those won't be released as most of the Pentagon info is not released- it's classified.
But how much more specific can you get? They knew the suspects, they knew what they were trying to do, and they didn't do their jobs- the CIA, the FBI, and the Bush Administration.
As a result, we had the nightmare situation on 9/11. We had thousands of innocent people die in New York and Washington. We had hundreds of innocent people die in planes. All because our government did not stop them.
We need an immediate reform of the CIA and FBI. We don't need to give them more money, we need to get them shaped up. They can collect information, they can figure out the plot, yet they can't stop it?
The Bush administration can try and claim all they want that even if they had done something, it wouldn't have stopped the attacks. But the truth is that the government knew that airplane training schools were breeding grounds for this type of attack as evidenced by the information they were gathering in Phoenix. (Moussaoui who was arrested, in fact, was in that group!) They also knew the potential targets (WTC, Pentagon), and nothing was done. They completely underestimated the terrorists, even though the blueprints for the plans were in their hands. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: Fran441 ]</p>
All that talk about 'we need better intelligence because we didn't see this coming' and 'there was nothing we could do' was complete BS.
The latest revelation is that Bush himself was informed of the plot, but he claims that he didn't know that the pilots were going to fly planes into the buildings.
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/16/politics/16INQU.html"; target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/16/politics/16INQU.html</a>;
What I want to know is this: WHY DIDN'T THEY DO ANYTHING? They had the information about the pilots training inside the country, but all they did was put them on watch lists. They knew about the Al Qaeda plot to hijack planes, and they didn't stop these men from getting on planes. They knew Bin Laden was planning a major terrorist operation, and they were still not stopped. There was even an FBI document which directly outlined the fear that they might try and fly a plane into the World Trade Center. There is even a suspected document which shows that they might try and fly planes into government buildings (Pentagon, White House, etc.), but those won't be released as most of the Pentagon info is not released- it's classified.
But how much more specific can you get? They knew the suspects, they knew what they were trying to do, and they didn't do their jobs- the CIA, the FBI, and the Bush Administration.
As a result, we had the nightmare situation on 9/11. We had thousands of innocent people die in New York and Washington. We had hundreds of innocent people die in planes. All because our government did not stop them.
We need an immediate reform of the CIA and FBI. We don't need to give them more money, we need to get them shaped up. They can collect information, they can figure out the plot, yet they can't stop it?
The Bush administration can try and claim all they want that even if they had done something, it wouldn't have stopped the attacks. But the truth is that the government knew that airplane training schools were breeding grounds for this type of attack as evidenced by the information they were gathering in Phoenix. (Moussaoui who was arrested, in fact, was in that group!) They also knew the potential targets (WTC, Pentagon), and nothing was done. They completely underestimated the terrorists, even though the blueprints for the plans were in their hands. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: Fran441 ]</p>
Comments
Plus, as far as I know, Clinton's mistakes didn't kill anyone. I'm not saying Bush killed anyone, but the fact that his administration (and more specifically, the CIA and FBI) knew about the possible terrorist plots and did nothing then issue a low level alert (never mind not even telling people at the WTC of a possible problem). Thousands of people DIED because of this screw up. This was a HUGE mistake. They dropped the ball on this one.
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: Fran441 ]</p>
<strong>He at least knew that planes with American citizens were going to be hijacked and nothing was done.
Plus, as far as I know, Clinton's mistakes didn't kill anyone.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was waiting for this thread to get started. And, my money was on Fran to start it. I was thinking about doing it myself, just to pre-empt the liberals taking their turn on the "jump to conclusions mat".
Fran, you are a liberal fool. Of course they knew there were hijackings planned. And, they DID DO SOMETHING!!! They put law enforcement on many of the aircraft after the warning. They alerted the appropriate agency. NO ONE ever supsected they would turn the plane into missles. NO ONE. I agree that several agencies dropped the ball. But, you have the facts wrong.
It is so easy for us to look back and say things like "they didn't connect the dots". In a Pre-9/11 world however, I am sure it never even entered Bush's mind (or anyone's) that they might plunge them into buildings.
This headline is so bogus. On Fox News and CNN it said something like your thread's title, making it sound as if Bush knew about the actual 9/11 plot. That is criminal. The REPORTING is criminal.
Oh, and on Clinton: How about mistakes like reducing the military's budget by 1/3? How about looking the other way while China sold nuke materials to rogue nations (that is DOCUMENTED, Fran).
If it were not for the economy, Clinton would go down in history as one our absolute worst, most corrupt presidents.
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
The facts don't lie. The FBI had documents showing that they wanted to use planes to attack the WTC. That's a FACT. Maybe Bush didn't know that. Maybe it didn't get passed along to him. Fine.
But let's face it- he knew that terrorists wanted to hijack planes in the US, and the government only notified SOME federal agencies. The Airlines weren't keeping track, and they let suspected terrorists (PEOPLE ON WATCH LISTS!!!) get on planes even after some had been stopped by LOCAL AUTHORITIES!
Don't turn this thread into something about Clinton. It's not about Clinton here, it's about the mistakes that federal agencies made in tracking the terrorists and stopping them, even when they had the blueprint of the plot in their hands.
Now THAT'S what is CRIMINAL.
[quote]FBI Director Robert Mueller referred to another internal document that may prove more explosive: notes by a Minneapolis agent worrying that French Moroccan flight student Zacarias Moussaoui might be planning to ?fly something into the World Trade Center.?<hr></blockquote>
HOLY CRAP FRAN!!!!!!!
That is patently FALSE!!!! The documents speciffically DO NOT say that. I have never even heard that statement from ANYONE before.
You responded to a poster concerning Clinton and I repsonded to you. I think he DID put American lives in jeopardy. We disagree. I think he is partly responsible for 9/11. How is that?
Did you miss my above post????
<strong><a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/751100.asp"; target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.com/news/751100.asp</a>;
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have never seen that. I bet it wasn't passed along.....and to be honest I question the accuracy of that report.......I have followed the thing very closely and I can't believe I would have missed that. Maybe though. Fair enough.
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
I doubt that the FBI got that document to Bush either, which is another major concern. If you have a major plot against American civilians when you know that there are increased terrorist activities, you think they would have let him know. The lack of communication between the intelligence agencies, and even their own brances allowed this to happen.
It just makes me so mad though. These agencies (CIA, FBI) lied to us the entire time- they had the info, they just didn't want to be caught with egg on their faces. Now their budgets are much higher and they're still providing the same amounts of info. Hopefully they can stop things like this from happening now.
I am sure we all agree that the victims had democrats, republicans, liberals, as well as conservatives amongst them; not to mention the many other denominations under which the victims felt they belonged to.
I think the FBI and CIA need to go in favor of a new intelligence agency that can be better managed. I just can't get those poor people out of my mind. This might have been averted. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Edit: I changed the title of the topic because it was more those two agencies than the entire government that knew about the plot in advance.
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: Fran441 ]</p>
And SDW, if you keep revising yourself at this rate, you're going to agree with Fran before long. As for the separate topic you opened up, smooth move.
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: poor taylor ]</p>
1. The title of this thread is somewhat misleading. They had a bunch of clues in front of them and couldn't piece them together. This is very bad, but it's not that they knew this was going to happen. The point is that they should have known what was going to happen. It's all bad, but there's difference there that I think is important.
2. Be glad the CIA/FBI are finding this out for themselves at least.
Again, it's all bad, but I think a slightly different attitude is merited. and, yes, both agencies need to cut the red tape and BS before a few thousand more die.
: ducks and runs :
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: BRussell ]</p>
Sorry. Agreed. FBI and CIA were negligent.
This just shows that our government has lost its focus....or at least had. It is meant to protect us, not regulate our lives and take 50-60% of our incomes in the process.
And too bad the administration has tunnel vision with Iraq, when Saudi Arabia deserves some sanctions themselves, too.
I'd like to believe that IF our government had a real concern of what was going on, then they would have stopped it. Yes, they are a big-spending, under-achieving (typical?) government agency, but if they could have stopped it they would have. Right?
[spelling & grammar]
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>