I wanted to post this before but the page went down . . . it might seem irrelevant, but, maybe not:
just once again I find it so ironic that the "no big-government, " clan are always the same crew that also want there to be some very secretive military/intel actions, where there is no accountability, or exposure to the people because it might adversly hamper their effectiveness.... for the people.
and, the same "no big-government, free to tote guns anywhere, aint payin taxes, get offa my property bud" clan are also the first one's that want to let the agencies start spying on people without due judicial process... because its for the good of all...
I just find it odd that its always the ones that pretend to not want government that end up being in favor of a controlling powerful police forces . . . that end up liking the idea of a police state
pardon the hyperbole... just a thought</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hyperbole is a good way of describing it. How is advocating closed hearings before the intelligence committees the same as not wanting accountability? It is, after all, what those committees are supposed to be all about - Congress fullfilling it's oversight duties with respect to intelligence matters.
Now you are painting a picture of moderation.... but that is not where the position against investigation began . . . people were crying out about the whole idea of an investigation at all... sayin it was merely prying into what we shouldn't know about . . as it becomes more obviouse, daily, that the idea of an investigation need not be politically biased, and, is a very good idea . . the reactionary tend to mumble and equivocate..."well...ehem..yeah that's what I said all along ..investigations but keep state secrets secret....that's what I meant."
(as if anybody who is asking for an investigation wants to publish all of our espionage roadmaps )
besides, my post should be seen as being about more than just this issue, but is about a whole frame of mind.... one that seems to so often exhibit itself on these boards
Excuse me but those committees didn't just spring into existence. They've been around for years. What on earth made you think these matters would never be looked into unless somebody made a political stink? If that's what you think, sounds like your complaint should be more general. Instead you single out those you disagree with as if they own some particular blame.
What's to be confused about? You're singling out certain people and alleging they aren't interested in accountability, etc. It's not as if there isn't a mechanism for oversight already in place. You are just scapegoating - not very useful.
If the mechanism is controled by those very same people it's not very useful is it?
With Nixon we got lucky and he got caught. I'd be willing to bet it isn't always that way.
Probably very seldom.
I think it's really funny when a major politcal figure ( and you'll know who I'm talking about ) says " I can't remember ".
I'm not saying ( and I've really said this enough now ) that Bush is guilty of anything. But, to act like this sort of thing never happens is just sticking your head in the sand.
You will say " This is much more serious than anything that's happened before ". Well maybe it's a new century and it could be time for a new low in American history. You know, one of those things we are not proud of.
There's plenty already and being aware of them is the best way to guard against them happening again.
But to pretend it's not possible that Bush might have even just profited from this situation and that things don't go on in the government that you and I never hear about ( and very much disaprove of ) is just stupid.
Hey, Spaceman_Spiff just sent me an email ( a private message, I'm sure ) to stop my trolling.
Now this is really low. I'm not trolling. I just disagree with you. I don't have any war with you as you put it. But, if you say something I disagree with I'll retort. That's what a forum is all about, an exchange of ideas. Those ideas might not always be the same.
As I've already stated I'm 49 and have seen a lot of things happen in my lifetime. What happened on Sept. 11th has to be one of the worst. I'm just willing to look at ALL the angles.
Let's face it you haven't exactly been friendly in your exchanges " shutting you up " and so on.
How did you try to let the air out of our dispute?
Sorry if this was your way to get the last word.
Hey, if you really have something to counter with say it here so everyone can hear.
I want you to please keep this discussion in the forum not my email. Now I've asked you nicely please comply.
Just because I made a statement then you made a retort and then you say it's over doesn't mean I'm not free to comment on anything else you say. Even if it's you talking to someone else. Last time I checked this was a free forum.
Geez, you'd think this was Spaceman_Spiff's forum if that was the case!
Come to think of it, was I even talking to you directly with my first comment?
As far as I know this is a free forum and anybody can comment on anything as long as it's civil.
If you'll check I haven't replied to your every post or just to you. If that was the case you might have something there about a war but, it just isn't so.
If you feel very bothered by this maybe the moderator should lock the thread. That would be a shame though because it would be a way of you " shutting me up " and I have just as much to say about this as you do.
No more emails ( it's kind of weird you would choose to carry this on so others can't hear ). I didn't join here to have someone fill up my emails with an argument that belongs on this forum. Plus it's kind of taking it personally ( which is kind of creepy ) isn't it? If you do it again I'll have to contact someone about it.
<strong>I want you to please keep this discussion in the forum not my email. Now I've asked you nicely please comply.
Just because I made a statement then you made a retort and then you say it's over doesn't mean I'm not free to comment on anything else you say. Even if it's you talking to someone else. Last time I checked this was a free forum. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Who said otherwise? What's going on between us, however, has gone far afield of what this thread is about, hence, the private messages. I can't imagine why it's some kind of big issue for you to have messages like this sent privately. But hey! Whatever. The sound you just heard was the clunking of foreheads as people all over pitched forward into their keyboards out of sheer boredom. Nobody else cares about this.
One more thing - if you don't want private messages sent to you, why didn't you remove that option from your profile? (I haven't sent you any emails. You apparently also activated the option that forwards a copy whenever someone sends you a private message.)
It's you who keeps insisting this is about anything other the subject in this thread. It's you who started talking about something else when you saw I wouldn't back down from my position.
Now I'll make you an offer.......since I've stated my position and you have stated yours ( and obviously we aren't going to change each others minds ) I'll stop posting in this thread if you will also. However I'm still going to post on any other thread if I have something to say or I disagree with something someone has said ( even you ).
Oh and about the private messages option, why should I change my profile just for you? I've had several disagreements with people here and they never felt the need to carry it beyond the forum. That's why it's kind of wierd and creepy. I've had other private messages but, it was mainly just to talk in addtition to the subject at hand. Not to call me a troll.
So what do you say ? Can we shake hands and walk away?
This will give you the opportunity for the last word which is more than gracious. Oh and no posting again on this thread with alternate names ( I'll know if it's you ). Just walk away.
When I was in High School I listened to The Guess Who, The Doors ( Jim Morrison was still alive ), Deep Purple, Cream, Led Zepplin, oh and the Beatles ( but they broke up in my junior year ). Anything else you'd like to know?
By your demeanor and musical taste I'd put you somewhere in your 20's.
Applenut, I've always thought you were 50. It seems someone's head is up off their keyboard. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
It's you who keeps insisting this is about anything other the subject in this thread. It's you who started talking about something else when you saw I wouldn't back down from my position.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's right! I told you that I wasn't going to argue with you anymore about this thread's subject. And I haven't.
[quote]<strong>Now I'll make you an offer.......since I've stated my position and you have stated yours ( and obviously we aren't going to change each others minds ) I'll stop posting in this thread if you will also. However I'm still going to post on any other thread if I have something to say or I disagree with something someone has said ( even you ).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Fine. Where have I suggested anything different? I already told you that I'll talk to you about anything else other than this.
[quote]<strong>Oh and about the private messages option, why should I change my profile just for you? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Change it; don't change it. I don't care but there was nothing creepy about me sending you private messages.
[quote]<strong>So what do you say ? Can we shake hands and walk away?
This will give you the opportunity for the last word which is more than gracious. Oh and no posting again on this thread with alternate names ( I'll know if it's you )</strong><hr></blockquote>
Post here to your heart's content. But I'm not the subject of this thread. And I like my user name. I'm not going to change it just for some stunt. If I have something to say to you, you'll know it's from me.
So I guess this means you're going to continue to post here about the subject at hand? Well, I guess I will also. But, if I disagree with something you or anyone else says or have something to add you'll hear about it.
Expecting me to stop adressing only you is rediculous. If that's what you mean. You weren't very clear on that point.
Of course I'll reply to others as well and I don't think they feel I have a war going with them.
Applenut might speak up at this point but, I think he's still sore about that Moon landing business. ( lol )
Applenut, I really do think you're ok in my book. Haven't seen you around the boards much lately.
Comments
just once again I find it so ironic that the "no big-government, " clan are always the same crew that also want there to be some very secretive military/intel actions, where there is no accountability, or exposure to the people because it might adversly hamper their effectiveness.... for the people.
and, the same "no big-government, free to tote guns anywhere, aint payin taxes, get offa my property bud" clan are also the first one's that want to let the agencies start spying on people without due judicial process... because its for the good of all...
I just find it odd that its always the ones that pretend to not want government that end up being in favor of a controlling powerful police forces . . . that end up liking the idea of a police state
pardon the hyperbole... just a thought
<strong>
pardon the hyperbole... just a thought</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hyperbole is a good way of describing it. How is advocating closed hearings before the intelligence committees the same as not wanting accountability? It is, after all, what those committees are supposed to be all about - Congress fullfilling it's oversight duties with respect to intelligence matters.
(as if anybody who is asking for an investigation wants to publish all of our espionage roadmaps
besides, my post should be seen as being about more than just this issue, but is about a whole frame of mind.... one that seems to so often exhibit itself on these boards
<strong>
What's to be confused about? You're singling out certain people and alleging they aren't interested in accountability, etc. It's not as if there isn't a mechanism for oversight already in place. You are just scapegoating - not very useful.
With Nixon we got lucky and he got caught. I'd be willing to bet it isn't always that way.
Probably very seldom.
I think it's really funny when a major politcal figure ( and you'll know who I'm talking about ) says " I can't remember ".
I'm not saying ( and I've really said this enough now ) that Bush is guilty of anything. But, to act like this sort of thing never happens is just sticking your head in the sand.
You will say " This is much more serious than anything that's happened before ". Well maybe it's a new century and it could be time for a new low in American history. You know, one of those things we are not proud of.
There's plenty already and being aware of them is the best way to guard against them happening again.
But to pretend it's not possible that Bush might have even just profited from this situation and that things don't go on in the government that you and I never hear about ( and very much disaprove of ) is just stupid.
[ 05-25-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
Now this is really low. I'm not trolling. I just disagree with you. I don't have any war with you as you put it. But, if you say something I disagree with I'll retort. That's what a forum is all about, an exchange of ideas. Those ideas might not always be the same.
As I've already stated I'm 49 and have seen a lot of things happen in my lifetime. What happened on Sept. 11th has to be one of the worst. I'm just willing to look at ALL the angles.
Let's face it you haven't exactly been friendly in your exchanges " shutting you up " and so on.
How did you try to let the air out of our dispute?
Sorry if this was your way to get the last word.
Hey, if you really have something to counter with say it here so everyone can hear.
[ 05-25-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
<strong>
Hey, if you really have something to counter with say it here so everyone can hear.
No. Check your messages again.
Just because I made a statement then you made a retort and then you say it's over doesn't mean I'm not free to comment on anything else you say. Even if it's you talking to someone else. Last time I checked this was a free forum.
Geez, you'd think this was Spaceman_Spiff's forum if that was the case!
Come to think of it, was I even talking to you directly with my first comment?
As far as I know this is a free forum and anybody can comment on anything as long as it's civil.
If you'll check I haven't replied to your every post or just to you. If that was the case you might have something there about a war but, it just isn't so.
If you feel very bothered by this maybe the moderator should lock the thread. That would be a shame though because it would be a way of you " shutting me up " and I have just as much to say about this as you do.
No more emails ( it's kind of weird you would choose to carry this on so others can't hear ). I didn't join here to have someone fill up my emails with an argument that belongs on this forum. Plus it's kind of taking it personally ( which is kind of creepy ) isn't it? If you do it again I'll have to contact someone about it.
[ 05-25-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
<strong>I want you to please keep this discussion in the forum not my email. Now I've asked you nicely please comply.
Just because I made a statement then you made a retort and then you say it's over doesn't mean I'm not free to comment on anything else you say. Even if it's you talking to someone else. Last time I checked this was a free forum. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Who said otherwise? What's going on between us, however, has gone far afield of what this thread is about, hence, the private messages. I can't imagine why it's some kind of big issue for you to have messages like this sent privately. But hey! Whatever. The sound you just heard was the clunking of foreheads as people all over pitched forward into their keyboards out of sheer boredom. Nobody else cares about this.
One more thing - if you don't want private messages sent to you, why didn't you remove that option from your profile? (I haven't sent you any emails. You apparently also activated the option that forwards a copy whenever someone sends you a private message.)
[ 05-25-2002: Message edited by: spaceman_spiff ]</p>
It's you who keeps insisting this is about anything other the subject in this thread. It's you who started talking about something else when you saw I wouldn't back down from my position.
Now I'll make you an offer.......since I've stated my position and you have stated yours ( and obviously we aren't going to change each others minds ) I'll stop posting in this thread if you will also. However I'm still going to post on any other thread if I have something to say or I disagree with something someone has said ( even you ).
Oh and about the private messages option, why should I change my profile just for you? I've had several disagreements with people here and they never felt the need to carry it beyond the forum. That's why it's kind of wierd and creepy. I've had other private messages but, it was mainly just to talk in addtition to the subject at hand. Not to call me a troll.
So what do you say ? Can we shake hands and walk away?
This will give you the opportunity for the last word which is more than gracious. Oh and no posting again on this thread with alternate names ( I'll know if it's you ). Just walk away.
[ 05-25-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
<strong>Spaceman_Spiff,
When I was in High School I listened to The Guess Who, The Doors ( Jim Morrison was still alive ), Deep Purple, Cream, Led Zepplin, oh and the Beatles ( but they broke up in my junior year ). Anything else you'd like to know?
By your demeanor and musical taste I'd put you somewhere in your 20's.
[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
if musical interest is the basis of what age you think people are then I guess I'm 49 as well
[ 05-25-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
<strong>Spaceman_Spiff,
It's you who keeps insisting this is about anything other the subject in this thread. It's you who started talking about something else when you saw I wouldn't back down from my position.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's right! I told you that I wasn't going to argue with you anymore about this thread's subject. And I haven't.
[quote]<strong>Now I'll make you an offer.......since I've stated my position and you have stated yours ( and obviously we aren't going to change each others minds ) I'll stop posting in this thread if you will also. However I'm still going to post on any other thread if I have something to say or I disagree with something someone has said ( even you ).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Fine. Where have I suggested anything different? I already told you that I'll talk to you about anything else other than this.
[quote]<strong>Oh and about the private messages option, why should I change my profile just for you? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Change it; don't change it. I don't care but there was nothing creepy about me sending you private messages.
[quote]<strong>So what do you say ? Can we shake hands and walk away?
This will give you the opportunity for the last word which is more than gracious. Oh and no posting again on this thread with alternate names ( I'll know if it's you )</strong><hr></blockquote>
Post here to your heart's content. But I'm not the subject of this thread. And I like my user name. I'm not going to change it just for some stunt. If I have something to say to you, you'll know it's from me.
Expecting me to stop adressing only you is rediculous. If that's what you mean. You weren't very clear on that point.
Of course I'll reply to others as well and I don't think they feel I have a war going with them.
Applenut might speak up at this point but, I think he's still sore about that Moon landing business. ( lol )
Applenut, I really do think you're ok in my book. Haven't seen you around the boards much lately.
[ 05-25-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
<strong>
if musical interest is the basis of what age you think people are then I guess I'm 49 as well
Jimmac is off by about a dozen years in his estimate of my age as well.