It's amusing because linux proponents invariably talk about server share and linux dominance while the top tier providers without an ideological ax to grind appear to choose bsd for better stability and uptime.
Quote:
its a good operating system. whats amusing is i see nothing with os x server.
OS X server isn't something likely to show up on netcraft or used as ISP machines (mini colo being one of the few exceptions). It targets the same market as Windows Small Business Server and supports apple shops that do a lot of content creation on xserves.
Web servers aren't the only kind of servers. Given that web servers are commodity servers anyway I have no idea why anyone would expect Apple to compete in this market at all.
Quote:
apple doesn't really care about enterprise. i have pleaded with engineer for some apple competition for exchange. he suggested 'xythos'.
Apple cares about enterprise...recent improvements in iOS for the enterprise shows this. It just doesn't care to go toe to toe against Microsoft in its exchange/ad/sharepoint stronghold.
That said, Apple does provide lightweight alternatives that can serve the small business market. A small business user can happily run without exchange with just the stuff in SLS.
Quote:
google runs on linux.
hotmail,live runs on windows (took them forever to get off of freebds though)
those are huge systems.
So? You could run huge web systems on OS X Server if you wanted to. Not sure why you would want to because of cost but are you implying that you couldn't?
Quote:
freebsd is a good choice for companies that want to use the code and then not share what they build on top of it.
Right...you mean like Google? Wake me when they release their internal version of Linux...ain't going to happen. Even the FSF is afraid of Google...or GPL3 would have had the afferro clauses embedded as the purists wanted.
Freebsd is a good choice period if you aren't going to go with RHEL or SLES. And the primary reason to go with RHEL or SLES is a solid service contract. IMHO the reason folks choose Linux over BSD for servers is either personal preference or ignorance. There's no compelling technical reason to choose Linux over BSD IMO.
As far as open permissive licenses vs closed copyleft license give me open permissive licenses any day of the week but that is personal preference.
Quote:
oh and apple doesn't have a web server does it? oh thats right, apache. why didn't they 'invent' their own?
Apache is Apache 2.0 license (permissive) and not GPL...so I guess from your perspective it's a good choice for companies that want to use the code and then not share what they build on top of it.
In any case, Apple didn't build it's userland either. It's largely taken from FreeBSD. Nor did they build CUPS (but now support it) or webkit. They didn't invent their own web server because there is no reason to.
[QUOTE=nht;1708310]It's amusing because linux proponents invariably talk about server share and linux dominance while the top tier providers without an ideological ax to grind appear to choose bsd for better stability and uptime.
OS X server isn't something likely to show up on netcraft or used as ISP machines (mini colo being one of the few exceptions). It targets the same market as Windows Small Business Server and supports apple shops that do a lot of content creation on xserves.
Web servers aren't the only kind of servers. Given that web servers are commodity servers anyway I have no idea why anyone would expect Apple to compete in this market at all.
Apple cares about enterprise...recent improvements in iOS for the enterprise shows this. It just doesn't care to go toe to toe against Microsoft in its exchange/ad/sharepoint stronghold.
That said, Apple does provide lightweight alternatives that can serve the small business market. A small business user can happily run without exchange with just the stuff in SLS.
So? You could run huge web systems on OS X Server if you wanted to. Not sure why you would want to because of cost but are you implying that you couldn't?
Right...you mean like Google? Wake me when they release their internal version of Linux...ain't going to happen. Even the FSF is afraid of Google...or GPL3 would have had the afferro clauses embedded as the purists wanted.
Freebsd is a good choice period if you aren't going to go with RHEL or SLES. And the primary reason to go with RHEL or SLES is a solid service contract. IMHO the reason folks choose Linux over BSD for servers is either personal preference or ignorance. There's no compelling technical reason to choose Linux over BSD IMO.
----i happen to think that the the reason folks choose freebsd over linux for servers is either personal preference or ignorance. There's no compelling technical reason to choose freebsd over linux. IMO.
i feel so sad for all the ignorant that use linux. too bad they aren't as enlightened as you.
Well, yah, I fell pretty bad for them too. Actually, I really do if they aren't RHEL or SLES users (including CENTOS clones in that number). Ubuntu LTS is a freaking disaster for the enterprise if you actually want stability. I know some folks that wanted to go with Gentoo. Yeah, I feel bad for them in a big way.
Anyway nice dodge on your position about how permissive open source is only for greedy corps who want to steal your code.
Linux and OSX hardly even compete against each other (ignoring Android for the moment). Linux on the desktop has been DOA for the last decade and no more relevant than BSD on the desktop so it's not surprising that iOS webstats outrank linux. But hey, maybe 2011 will be the year of the Linux on the Desktop.
Well, yah, I fell pretty bad for them too. Actually, I really do if they aren't RHEL or SLES users (including CENTOS clones in that number). Ubuntu LTS is a freaking disaster for the enterprise if you actually want stability. I know some folks that wanted to go with Gentoo. Yeah, I feel bad for them in a big way.
Anyway nice dodge on your position about how permissive open source is only for greedy corps who want to steal your code.
Linux and OSX hardly even compete against each other (ignoring Android for the moment). Linux on the desktop has been DOA for the last decade and no more relevant than BSD on the desktop so it's not surprising that iOS webstats outrank linux. But hey, maybe 2011 will be the year of the Linux on the Desktop.
you are sorely lacking in sense if you think linux is no more relevant than bsd on the desktop. try looking around at the usage in other countries rather than your own backyard also helps.
and check out distrowatch. they keep up with page stats and i don't see bsd at the top of the list. must be all those dumb shmuck linux users.
go sell your lack of sense someplace else....i ain't buying.
It is true that Flash is not dead yet. But accelerated 3D to Flash is a waste of time and will eat up even more resources. 10.1 GPU decoding is rubbish, it only applies to huge-bandwidth gobbling HD streams.
By what magic method does HTML5 do 3D without similar resource usage?
See also:
6 reasons why the "HTML5 vs. Flash" debate is idiotic
you are sorely lacking in sense if you think linux is no more relevant than bsd on the desktop. try looking around at the usage in other countries rather than your own backyard also helps.
and check out distrowatch. they keep up with page stats and i don't see bsd at the top of the list. must be all those dumb shmuck linux users.
go sell your lack of sense someplace else....i ain't buying.
It's funny how Mac users, who for years rightfully decried all the anti-Mac FUD coming from the Windows world, are now so often engaging in the same tactics against Linux.
Linux has perhaps half as many users as Mac OS has been able to garner in its two decades of trying. And this is while the computer revolution across the developing world is still so very nascent.
Once outside of Americaland, with its luxury SUVs, designer jeans, and $2,000 computers, the opportunities look much more diverse than some imagine....
For years Linux has been the platform of choice in the film industry. The first major film produced on Linux servers was 1997's Titanic. Since then major studios including Dreamworks Animation, Pixar and Industrial Light & Magic have migrated to Linux. According to the Linux Movies Group, more than 95% of the servers and desktops at large animation and visual effects companies use Linux..
As a buyer, I want to have a good ecosystem. So I choose market share. In this regard, the trends are good for Android.
As a seller, I want to get big profits any way I possibly can. Apple is very good at that. And make no mistake, Apple wants bigtime market share in order to keep up its ecosystem in order to keep up its profits.
Pretty foolish statement - the discussion was about APPLE. Last time I checked, Apple is a seller. Apple is achieving more profits than anyone else in spite of their 'low' market share.
No one cares if YOU are not bright enough to choose the best product but would rather be a sheep. It just doesn't matter to anyone.
you are sorely lacking in sense if you think linux is no more relevant than bsd on the desktop.
Neither matter as a desktop OS so both are equally relevant. As in not really relevant at all despite all of Shuttleworth's money. 0.85 share? Wow...linux is really relevant as a desktop OS.
The fact that BSD is like 0.0085 share doesn't really make that much difference.
Neither matter as a desktop OS so both are equally relevant. As in not really relevant at all despite all of Shuttleworth's money. 0.85 share? Wow...linux is really relevant as a desktop OS.
The fact that BSD is like 0.0085 share doesn't really make that much difference.
i know, so few use linux distro's as desktops that you just can't find an app to use. and there must be what...5 or 10 developers tops?
despite all of shuttleworth's money? the guy is using his own money to do something he loves and believes in and he ain't charging you or anyone else a dime. i can't believe you are so pathetic that shuttleworth gets on your nerves. well, yes i can believe it.
It's funny how Mac users, who for years rightfully decried all the anti-Mac FUD coming from the Windows world, are now so often engaging in the same tactics against Linux.
I'm a mac, iOS, windows, android, bsd (rarely) user. Linux sucks as a desktop OS and has for the two and a half decades I've been using it. I actually still have in my basement my old Dell Dimension Pentium 90 and slackware 2.1 and Debian 0.91 beta on it circa 1994. Somewhere around here I have an old Walnut Creek CD with FreeBSD on it.
Distrowatch back then was whatever distros were shipping on InfoMagic CDs.
Every major desktop deployment to date has been an epic failure. Munich is the poster child for Linux desktop deployment fail train.
Quote:
Linux has perhaps half as many users as Mac OS has been able to garner in its two decades of trying.
Really? So you're saying that Linux has about 2.5% desktop market share but 66% of Linux users don't browse the web (0.85% using linux to browse as reported by netapp)?
Quote:
And this is while the computer revolution across the developing world is still so very nascent.
After nearly four decades of modern computing (starting arbitrarily with Englebart's demo in '68) I think we can finally declare that its no longer a revolution. 80% penetration in urban China (where most folks live) and 10%+ in rural China.
And those sales are not predominantly Red Flag Linux.
Quote:
Once outside of Americaland, with its luxury SUVs, designer jeans, and $2,000 computers, the opportunities look much more diverse than some imagine....
For Microsoft maybe. Every time that folks have said that desktop Linux is going to explode because of Red Flag, Munich, Dell, IBM, OLPC, etc every time it's turned into a fail train and an opportunity for MS to step in.
Apple users shrug. Apple caters to those luxury SUV, designer jeans, $2000 computer users and builds a best in class unix desktop operating system.
i know, so few use linux distro's as desktops that you just can't find an app to use. and there must be what...5 or 10 developers tops?
5-10 major developers sound about right...IBM, Oracle (heh), Novell, Red Hat, Canonical, Nokia...ah...lemme think for four more.
Quote:
despite all of shuttleworth's money? the guy is using his own money to do something he loves and believes in and he ain't charging you or anyone else a dime. i can't believe you are so pathetic that shuttleworth gets on your nerves. well, yes i can believe it.
Shuttleworth doesn't get on my nerves, the exact opposite. Dude actually cares about usability. Alas, Shuttleworth is no Steve Jobs. I dunno if he really know what usability is. Menacing Meerrat is going to be Social? Really Mark? Mkay.
Most open source devs gives a Rancid Rat's ass about usability by normal people and herding open source devs is infinitely harder than herding Capering Cats. The corporate developers supporting Linux (as seen in that list above) are mostly doing server work. Not desktop.
I guess I should actually try Meandering Meekcat beta but I'm sure not looking forward to another Ubuntu upgrade that invariably borks my sound, my xconfigs or something other minor like that on my test box.
So yes, despite Mark's money desktop linux still sucks and that's just sad. i wish it were different but honestly since OS X 10.3 I don't really care anymore. Frankly the ONLY reason I open a shell these days is because DDMS requires me to (WTF?) so I can see the logs and take screen caps from Android.
I'm a mac, iOS, windows, android, bsd (rarely) user. Linux sucks as a desktop OS and has for the two and a half decades I've been using it. I actually still have in my basement my old Dell Dimension Pentium 90 and slackware 2.1 and Debian 0.91 beta on it circa 1994. Somewhere around here I have an old Walnut Creek CD with FreeBSD on it.
Distrowatch back then was whatever distros were shipping on InfoMagic CDs.
Every major desktop deployment to date has been an epic failure. Munich is the poster child for Linux desktop deployment fail train.
Really? So you're saying that Linux has about 2.5% desktop market share but 66% of Linux users don't browse the web (0.85% using linux to browse as reported by netapp)?
After nearly four decades of modern computing (starting arbitrarily with Englebart's demo in '68) I think we can finally declare that its no longer a revolution. 80% penetration in urban China (where most folks live) and 10%+ in rural China.
And those sales are not predominantly Red Flag Linux.
For Microsoft maybe. Every time that folks have said that desktop Linux is going to explode because of Red Flag, Munich, Dell, IBM, OLPC, etc every time it's turned into a fail train and an opportunity for MS to step in.
Apple users shrug. Apple caters to those luxury SUV, designer jeans, $2000 computer users and builds a best in class unix desktop operating system.
One that doesn't suck.
ubuntu 10.04 does not 'suck'. it is the best linux distro desktop i have ever used and i am still amazed at how good it is. and it didn't cost me 3000 dollars.
5-10 major developers sound about right...IBM, Oracle (heh), Novell, Red Hat, Canonical, Nokia...ah...lemme think for four more.
Shuttleworth doesn't get on my nerves, the exact opposite. Dude actually cares about usability. Alas, Shuttleworth is no Steve Jobs. I dunno if he really know what usability is. Menacing Meerrat is going to be Social? Really Mark? Mkay.
Most open source devs gives a Rancid Rat's ass about usability by normal people and herding open source devs is infinitely harder than herding Capering Cats. The corporate developers supporting Linux (as seen in that list above) are mostly doing server work. Not desktop.
I guess I should actually try Meandering Meekcat beta but I'm sure not looking forward to another Ubuntu upgrade that invariably borks my sound, my xconfigs or something other minor like that on my test box.
So yes, despite Mark's money desktop linux still sucks and that's just sad. i wish it were different but honestly since OS X 10.3 I don't really care anymore. Frankly the ONLY reason I open a shell these days is because DDMS requires me to (WTF?) so I can see the logs and take screen caps from Android.
'despite marks money' ? i am really baffled at your beef with 'marks money'. keep giving yours to steve. he sure isn't spending it for anyone else's benefit....
ubuntu 10.04 does not 'suck'. it is the best linux distro desktop i have ever used and i am still amazed at how good it is. and it didn't cost me 3000 dollars.
Yah...10.04 didn't suck...unless you wanted audio that wasn't borked again in that continuing pulseaudio fiasco, updgrades that didn't hose your system and display drivers that weren't borked or somehow borked your configs.
Seriously...audio? How hard is it to get audio working for everybody in a desktop OS? Audio has been a source of issues since Heron and it was STILL borked for some people in Lucid. If all you want to do is run Skype and audio doesn't work without mucking around then it's the definition of "suck". And they put it in Heron...the LTS...which guaranteed pulseaudio suckage until Lucid two years later (if you were on the LTS train) where it was still borked but a lot less borked.
Glad it worked for you. Lucid upgrade worked (as far as I know...don't use it for much) but both Karmic and Jaunty had issues and that sucked.
The REALLY amusing part? The comment that every session so far has had 5 minutes technical issues setting up. By a bunch of linux geeks. No presentation until 5:33. But "Hey comppiz is cool!" (around 5:25)
This is at least the second year Brian has given this talk and as near as I can remember it didn't change much. The litany year after year is the same for desktop linux: audio sucks, display drivers suck, multi-monitor suck, wifi drivers suck, xorg sucks, package managers suck...
By what magic method does HTML5 do 3D without similar resource usage?
Which is kinda my point. Where have we seen 3D delivered through the browser, VRML, Flash or otherwise, that has really been useful? Now where have we seen 3D delivered through the browser, on Android or other mobile systems, where it is better than an application?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll
6 reasons why the "HTML5 vs. Flash" debate is idiotic
Firstly, when we talk about HTML5, we are talking about HTML5 being the standard on the horizon, while in the meantime we have current implementations of HTML, CSS and Javascript.
The question boils down to where to use Flash, and where not to. In the desktop world, I do not see Flash websites that really justify the interactivity and functionality of using Flash. In terms of animation, they're mainly annoying nowadays and do not enhance user experience, in most cases, IMO.
In the mobile world, the use of Flash becomes much harder to justify. You don't need things flying around all over the place to quickly access your content, unless of course that is something like a game which is best delivered as a dedicated mobile application.
And I have made Flash websites in the past, and HTML4 or less + CSS + Javascript is annoying, but at least much more available to a wider audience.
If you told me every single shipping Android and Blackberry and WindowsMobile smartphone starting from *today* will come with functional and smoothly operating Flash built-in, then I would say Flash on mobile has a future. But that is not the case, unfortunately.
My beef is partly Flash but partly, where is the Flash implementation on non-Apple mobile hardware?
Comments
that was freebsd and what is amusing about it?
It's amusing because linux proponents invariably talk about server share and linux dominance while the top tier providers without an ideological ax to grind appear to choose bsd for better stability and uptime.
its a good operating system. whats amusing is i see nothing with os x server.
OS X server isn't something likely to show up on netcraft or used as ISP machines (mini colo being one of the few exceptions). It targets the same market as Windows Small Business Server and supports apple shops that do a lot of content creation on xserves.
Web servers aren't the only kind of servers. Given that web servers are commodity servers anyway I have no idea why anyone would expect Apple to compete in this market at all.
apple doesn't really care about enterprise. i have pleaded with engineer for some apple competition for exchange. he suggested 'xythos'.
Apple cares about enterprise...recent improvements in iOS for the enterprise shows this. It just doesn't care to go toe to toe against Microsoft in its exchange/ad/sharepoint stronghold.
That said, Apple does provide lightweight alternatives that can serve the small business market. A small business user can happily run without exchange with just the stuff in SLS.
google runs on linux.
hotmail,live runs on windows (took them forever to get off of freebds though)
those are huge systems.
So? You could run huge web systems on OS X Server if you wanted to. Not sure why you would want to because of cost but are you implying that you couldn't?
freebsd is a good choice for companies that want to use the code and then not share what they build on top of it.
Right...you mean like Google? Wake me when they release their internal version of Linux...ain't going to happen. Even the FSF is afraid of Google...or GPL3 would have had the afferro clauses embedded as the purists wanted.
Freebsd is a good choice period if you aren't going to go with RHEL or SLES. And the primary reason to go with RHEL or SLES is a solid service contract. IMHO the reason folks choose Linux over BSD for servers is either personal preference or ignorance. There's no compelling technical reason to choose Linux over BSD IMO.
As far as open permissive licenses vs closed copyleft license give me open permissive licenses any day of the week but that is personal preference.
oh and apple doesn't have a web server does it? oh thats right, apache. why didn't they 'invent' their own?
Apache is Apache 2.0 license (permissive) and not GPL...so I guess from your perspective it's a good choice for companies that want to use the code and then not share what they build on top of it.
In any case, Apple didn't build it's userland either. It's largely taken from FreeBSD. Nor did they build CUPS (but now support it) or webkit. They didn't invent their own web server because there is no reason to.
I'm not even sure what your point is.
OS X server isn't something likely to show up on netcraft or used as ISP machines (mini colo being one of the few exceptions). It targets the same market as Windows Small Business Server and supports apple shops that do a lot of content creation on xserves.
Web servers aren't the only kind of servers. Given that web servers are commodity servers anyway I have no idea why anyone would expect Apple to compete in this market at all.
Apple cares about enterprise...recent improvements in iOS for the enterprise shows this. It just doesn't care to go toe to toe against Microsoft in its exchange/ad/sharepoint stronghold.
That said, Apple does provide lightweight alternatives that can serve the small business market. A small business user can happily run without exchange with just the stuff in SLS.
So? You could run huge web systems on OS X Server if you wanted to. Not sure why you would want to because of cost but are you implying that you couldn't?
Right...you mean like Google? Wake me when they release their internal version of Linux...ain't going to happen. Even the FSF is afraid of Google...or GPL3 would have had the afferro clauses embedded as the purists wanted.
Freebsd is a good choice period if you aren't going to go with RHEL or SLES. And the primary reason to go with RHEL or SLES is a solid service contract. IMHO the reason folks choose Linux over BSD for servers is either personal preference or ignorance. There's no compelling technical reason to choose Linux over BSD IMO.
----i happen to think that the the reason folks choose freebsd over linux for servers is either personal preference or ignorance. There's no compelling technical reason to choose freebsd over linux. IMO.
i feel so sad for all the ignorant that use linux. too bad they aren't as enlightened as you.
Well, yah, I fell pretty bad for them too.
Anyway nice dodge on your position about how permissive open source is only for greedy corps who want to steal your code.
Linux and OSX hardly even compete against each other (ignoring Android for the moment). Linux on the desktop has been DOA for the last decade and no more relevant than BSD on the desktop so it's not surprising that iOS webstats outrank linux. But hey, maybe 2011 will be the year of the Linux on the Desktop.
Well, yah, I fell pretty bad for them too.
Anyway nice dodge on your position about how permissive open source is only for greedy corps who want to steal your code.
Linux and OSX hardly even compete against each other (ignoring Android for the moment). Linux on the desktop has been DOA for the last decade and no more relevant than BSD on the desktop so it's not surprising that iOS webstats outrank linux. But hey, maybe 2011 will be the year of the Linux on the Desktop.
you are sorely lacking in sense if you think linux is no more relevant than bsd on the desktop. try looking around at the usage in other countries rather than your own backyard also helps.
and check out distrowatch. they keep up with page stats and i don't see bsd at the top of the list. must be all those dumb shmuck linux users.
go sell your lack of sense someplace else....i ain't buying.
And, yet, with only 5% market share, Apple has 35% of the entire industry's profits. Which would you rather have- market share or profits?
As an Apple shareholder I like that they have the highest margins in the industry. I use my stock proceeds to buy Android-based devices.
See also:
Android gaining on Apple iOS in mobile web market share
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ket_share.html
Android outsells iPhone (again), sales up 886% globally
Apple down during the same period from a high of 34% to 23%:
http://mobile.venturebeat.com/2010/0...-886-globally/
It is true that Flash is not dead yet. But accelerated 3D to Flash is a waste of time and will eat up even more resources. 10.1 GPU decoding is rubbish, it only applies to huge-bandwidth gobbling HD streams.
By what magic method does HTML5 do 3D without similar resource usage?
See also:
6 reasons why the "HTML5 vs. Flash" debate is idiotic
http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-...te-is-idiotic/
you are sorely lacking in sense if you think linux is no more relevant than bsd on the desktop. try looking around at the usage in other countries rather than your own backyard also helps.
and check out distrowatch. they keep up with page stats and i don't see bsd at the top of the list. must be all those dumb shmuck linux users.
go sell your lack of sense someplace else....i ain't buying.
It's funny how Mac users, who for years rightfully decried all the anti-Mac FUD coming from the Windows world, are now so often engaging in the same tactics against Linux.
Linux has perhaps half as many users as Mac OS has been able to garner in its two decades of trying. And this is while the computer revolution across the developing world is still so very nascent.
Once outside of Americaland, with its luxury SUVs, designer jeans, and $2,000 computers, the opportunities look much more diverse than some imagine....
For years Linux has been the platform of choice in the film industry. The first major film produced on Linux servers was 1997's Titanic. Since then major studios including Dreamworks Animation, Pixar and Industrial Light & Magic have migrated to Linux. According to the Linux Movies Group, more than 95% of the servers and desktops at large animation and visual effects companies use Linux..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux#M...are_and_uptake
Pixar
...
Key people
...
Steve Jobs, former CEO of Pixar Animation Studios and member of the Board of Directors at The Walt Disney Company
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar
As a buyer, I want to have a good ecosystem. So I choose market share. In this regard, the trends are good for Android.
As a seller, I want to get big profits any way I possibly can. Apple is very good at that. And make no mistake, Apple wants bigtime market share in order to keep up its ecosystem in order to keep up its profits.
Pretty foolish statement - the discussion was about APPLE. Last time I checked, Apple is a seller. Apple is achieving more profits than anyone else in spite of their 'low' market share.
No one cares if YOU are not bright enough to choose the best product but would rather be a sheep. It just doesn't matter to anyone.
you are sorely lacking in sense if you think linux is no more relevant than bsd on the desktop.
Neither matter as a desktop OS so both are equally relevant. As in not really relevant at all despite all of Shuttleworth's money. 0.85 share? Wow...linux is really relevant as a desktop OS.
The fact that BSD is like 0.0085 share doesn't really make that much difference.
Neither matter as a desktop OS so both are equally relevant. As in not really relevant at all despite all of Shuttleworth's money. 0.85 share? Wow...linux is really relevant as a desktop OS.
The fact that BSD is like 0.0085 share doesn't really make that much difference.
i know, so few use linux distro's as desktops that you just can't find an app to use. and there must be what...5 or 10 developers tops?
despite all of shuttleworth's money? the guy is using his own money to do something he loves and believes in and he ain't charging you or anyone else a dime. i can't believe you are so pathetic that shuttleworth gets on your nerves. well, yes i can believe it.
It's funny how Mac users, who for years rightfully decried all the anti-Mac FUD coming from the Windows world, are now so often engaging in the same tactics against Linux.
I'm a mac, iOS, windows, android, bsd (rarely) user. Linux sucks as a desktop OS and has for the two and a half decades I've been using it. I actually still have in my basement my old Dell Dimension Pentium 90 and slackware 2.1 and Debian 0.91 beta on it circa 1994. Somewhere around here I have an old Walnut Creek CD with FreeBSD on it.
Distrowatch back then was whatever distros were shipping on InfoMagic CDs.
Every major desktop deployment to date has been an epic failure. Munich is the poster child for Linux desktop deployment fail train.
Linux has perhaps half as many users as Mac OS has been able to garner in its two decades of trying.
Really? So you're saying that Linux has about 2.5% desktop market share but 66% of Linux users don't browse the web (0.85% using linux to browse as reported by netapp)?
And this is while the computer revolution across the developing world is still so very nascent.
After nearly four decades of modern computing (starting arbitrarily with Englebart's demo in '68) I think we can finally declare that its no longer a revolution. 80% penetration in urban China (where most folks live) and 10%+ in rural China.
And those sales are not predominantly Red Flag Linux.
Once outside of Americaland, with its luxury SUVs, designer jeans, and $2,000 computers, the opportunities look much more diverse than some imagine....
For Microsoft maybe. Every time that folks have said that desktop Linux is going to explode because of Red Flag, Munich, Dell, IBM, OLPC, etc every time it's turned into a fail train and an opportunity for MS to step in.
Apple users shrug. Apple caters to those luxury SUV, designer jeans, $2000 computer users and builds a best in class unix desktop operating system.
One that doesn't suck.
i know, so few use linux distro's as desktops that you just can't find an app to use. and there must be what...5 or 10 developers tops?
5-10 major developers sound about right...IBM, Oracle (heh), Novell, Red Hat, Canonical, Nokia...ah...lemme think for four more.
despite all of shuttleworth's money? the guy is using his own money to do something he loves and believes in and he ain't charging you or anyone else a dime. i can't believe you are so pathetic that shuttleworth gets on your nerves. well, yes i can believe it.
Shuttleworth doesn't get on my nerves, the exact opposite. Dude actually cares about usability. Alas, Shuttleworth is no Steve Jobs. I dunno if he really know what usability is. Menacing Meerrat is going to be Social? Really Mark? Mkay.
Most open source devs gives a Rancid Rat's ass about usability by normal people and herding open source devs is infinitely harder than herding Capering Cats. The corporate developers supporting Linux (as seen in that list above) are mostly doing server work. Not desktop.
I guess I should actually try Meandering Meekcat beta but I'm sure not looking forward to another Ubuntu upgrade that invariably borks my sound, my xconfigs or something other minor like that on my test box.
So yes, despite Mark's money desktop linux still sucks and that's just sad. i wish it were different but honestly since OS X 10.3 I don't really care anymore. Frankly the ONLY reason I open a shell these days is because DDMS requires me to (WTF?) so I can see the logs and take screen caps from Android.
I'm a mac, iOS, windows, android, bsd (rarely) user. Linux sucks as a desktop OS and has for the two and a half decades I've been using it. I actually still have in my basement my old Dell Dimension Pentium 90 and slackware 2.1 and Debian 0.91 beta on it circa 1994. Somewhere around here I have an old Walnut Creek CD with FreeBSD on it.
Distrowatch back then was whatever distros were shipping on InfoMagic CDs.
Every major desktop deployment to date has been an epic failure. Munich is the poster child for Linux desktop deployment fail train.
Really? So you're saying that Linux has about 2.5% desktop market share but 66% of Linux users don't browse the web (0.85% using linux to browse as reported by netapp)?
After nearly four decades of modern computing (starting arbitrarily with Englebart's demo in '68) I think we can finally declare that its no longer a revolution. 80% penetration in urban China (where most folks live) and 10%+ in rural China.
And those sales are not predominantly Red Flag Linux.
For Microsoft maybe. Every time that folks have said that desktop Linux is going to explode because of Red Flag, Munich, Dell, IBM, OLPC, etc every time it's turned into a fail train and an opportunity for MS to step in.
Apple users shrug. Apple caters to those luxury SUV, designer jeans, $2000 computer users and builds a best in class unix desktop operating system.
One that doesn't suck.
ubuntu 10.04 does not 'suck'. it is the best linux distro desktop i have ever used and i am still amazed at how good it is. and it didn't cost me 3000 dollars.
5-10 major developers sound about right...IBM, Oracle (heh), Novell, Red Hat, Canonical, Nokia...ah...lemme think for four more.
Shuttleworth doesn't get on my nerves, the exact opposite. Dude actually cares about usability. Alas, Shuttleworth is no Steve Jobs. I dunno if he really know what usability is. Menacing Meerrat is going to be Social? Really Mark? Mkay.
Most open source devs gives a Rancid Rat's ass about usability by normal people and herding open source devs is infinitely harder than herding Capering Cats. The corporate developers supporting Linux (as seen in that list above) are mostly doing server work. Not desktop.
I guess I should actually try Meandering Meekcat beta but I'm sure not looking forward to another Ubuntu upgrade that invariably borks my sound, my xconfigs or something other minor like that on my test box.
So yes, despite Mark's money desktop linux still sucks and that's just sad. i wish it were different but honestly since OS X 10.3 I don't really care anymore. Frankly the ONLY reason I open a shell these days is because DDMS requires me to (WTF?) so I can see the logs and take screen caps from Android.
'despite marks money' ? i am really baffled at your beef with 'marks money'. keep giving yours to steve. he sure isn't spending it for anyone else's benefit....
ubuntu 10.04 does not 'suck'. it is the best linux distro desktop i have ever used and i am still amazed at how good it is. and it didn't cost me 3000 dollars.
Yah...10.04 didn't suck...unless you wanted audio that wasn't borked again in that continuing pulseaudio fiasco, updgrades that didn't hose your system and display drivers that weren't borked or somehow borked your configs.
Seriously...audio? How hard is it to get audio working for everybody in a desktop OS? Audio has been a source of issues since Heron and it was STILL borked for some people in Lucid. If all you want to do is run Skype and audio doesn't work without mucking around then it's the definition of "suck". And they put it in Heron...the LTS...which guaranteed pulseaudio suckage until Lucid two years later (if you were on the LTS train) where it was still borked but a lot less borked.
Glad it worked for you. Lucid upgrade worked (as far as I know...don't use it for much) but both Karmic and Jaunty had issues and that sucked.
http://www.ubuntututorials.info/linu...-about-it.html
The REALLY amusing part? The comment that every session so far has had 5 minutes technical issues setting up. By a bunch of linux geeks. No presentation until 5:33. But "Hey comppiz is cool!" (around 5:25)
This is at least the second year Brian has given this talk and as near as I can remember it didn't change much. The litany year after year is the same for desktop linux: audio sucks, display drivers suck, multi-monitor suck, wifi drivers suck, xorg sucks, package managers suck...
By what magic method does HTML5 do 3D without similar resource usage?
Which is kinda my point. Where have we seen 3D delivered through the browser, VRML, Flash or otherwise, that has really been useful? Now where have we seen 3D delivered through the browser, on Android or other mobile systems, where it is better than an application?
6 reasons why the "HTML5 vs. Flash" debate is idiotic
http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-...te-is-idiotic/
Firstly, when we talk about HTML5, we are talking about HTML5 being the standard on the horizon, while in the meantime we have current implementations of HTML, CSS and Javascript.
The question boils down to where to use Flash, and where not to. In the desktop world, I do not see Flash websites that really justify the interactivity and functionality of using Flash. In terms of animation, they're mainly annoying nowadays and do not enhance user experience, in most cases, IMO.
In the mobile world, the use of Flash becomes much harder to justify. You don't need things flying around all over the place to quickly access your content, unless of course that is something like a game which is best delivered as a dedicated mobile application.
And I have made Flash websites in the past, and HTML4 or less + CSS + Javascript is annoying, but at least much more available to a wider audience.
If you told me every single shipping Android and Blackberry and WindowsMobile smartphone starting from *today* will come with functional and smoothly operating Flash built-in, then I would say Flash on mobile has a future. But that is not the case, unfortunately.
My beef is partly Flash but partly, where is the Flash implementation on non-Apple mobile hardware?
http://www.ankleskater.com/pagemaker...20100903221300