Android gaining on Apple iOS in mobile web market share

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  • Reply 301 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by krabbelen View Post




    Of course, the implication of all this is that we have patiently indulged you far too much already.



    Please stop being so patient. It bores me.
  • Reply 302 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ouragan View Post


    Windows 95 crushed Apple once. What will remain this time, once Steve Jobs leaves Apple to retire or for medical reasons?



    Did Steve Jobs build a house of cards with his monopolistic strategy of exclusive cell phone carriers and expensive cell phone contracts?













    Wow. This is original thought. I've not heard such a theory before.



    Time will tell.
  • Reply 303 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ouragan View Post


    It was bound to happen. It's a repeat of the Mac vs. Windows story of 20-25 years ago for exactly the same reasons:



    1- Apple's refusal to license the iOS which forced Google to write its own Android operating system;



    Err... Last time I looked, Google doesn't make any hardware-- why do they need an OS?



    Oh, of course! To sell ads.



    Quote:

    2- Apple using its early lead and superior OS as a reason to overcharge early adopters with a profit margin of 200% or 250% hidden by a compulsory cell phone contract;



    Aren't all smart phones priced similarly? As I understand it, there are several that are more expensive than the iPhone.



    I bought 2 original 2007 iPhones on day 1. They were worth the price (and are still in use). I received a refund of $100 each, when Apple lowered the price-- welcome, but unexpected.



    Quote:

    3- Apple sacrificing its long term interest and market share to realize quick, huge profits on the short term, mostly for the benefit of the CEO and his VPs who receive unheard of stock option bonuses.



    Market share has never been Apple's long term interest. Profit!



    Short term? Apple has been in business for 34 + years. They have revolutionized several industries:

    -- personal computing

    -- Graphic User Interface

    -- Desktop Publishing

    -- Audio/Video post processing

    -- portable music player

    -- digital music store

    -- smart phone

    -- tablets



    I bought my first shares of AAPL in 2003 for $17 a share. Today, each of those shares is worth $517.54 (after split)-- over 3,000% appreciation.



    It seems that AAPL has rewarded its shareholders, including, pension funds, etc.



    Apple is the 2nd most valuable US company (value of stock). Apple's executive pay, bonuses, stock options are well within the industry norm. Contrast that to, say, GM, GE, Wall Street, Fannie and Freddie-- where the order of the day appears to be: The bigger the loss (scam), the bigger the reward (pay, bonuses, options, golden parachutes).



    Quote:

    Android mobile OS is the new Windows of smartphones.



    Just to be sure... You mean that as a compliment, right?

    Quote:

    Unlike Microsoft, Google doesn't charge anything for its operating system, a definite cost advantage for iPhone competitors.



    Think about that for a minute.



    Apple doesn't charge anything for iOS either. It gives it away to entice/support the customer's willingness to buy a device (where Apple makes their money). Apple is motivated to make that device/OS combination as desirable as possible.



    Google, on the other hand, gives away its OS so it can sell ads. Google must make its OS attractive enough (price, features, etc.) to entice the customer to accept the ads to get the device. Realistically, Google could care less which phone you buy, as long as it can push ads to it (it runs Android).



    Google doesn't support the hardware-- that's up to the carriers and manufacturers.



    As long as it benefits Google, it will continue to enhance Android.



    But. what if the cost becomes burdensome? What if the Oracle patents are upheld? Google could be forced to re-implement Android, license Java, pay damages, pay Oracle, say $10 for each Android install.



    What then?



    I've read that several manufactures, who now make Android phones, are keeping their options open to use other OSes.





    Quote:

    When you add the choice of models and makers, the choice of features and carriers, a better choice of software not restricted by the App Store, quick innovation and a lower price, Android phones are bound to overtake the smartphone market over the long term.



    Possible... but it remains to be seen! Apple has a track record with hardware, software, CE, a digital store, wholesale and retail sales/support. Google has virtually zero experience with hardware, CE, wholesale and retail sales/support. Their track record with software and a digital store is spotty.



    Quote:

    Windows 95 crushed Apple once. What will remain this time, once Steve Jobs leaves Apple to retire or for medical reasons?



    Did Steve Jobs build a house of cards with his monopolistic strategy of exclusive cell phone carriers and expensive cell phone contracts?









    I think you underestimate the management team at Apple.



    Maybe a better question would be: What happens to all the Android phone customers and manufacturers when Google decides that Android no longer meets its needs?



    That handwriting is already on the wall!



    .
  • Reply 304 of 348
    Jeezus... 8 pages now...
  • Reply 305 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by synp View Post


    1 line of code...



    Are we talking IEFBR14?



    Are you kidding me?



    IBM 360 code?



    BACF, at least accomplishes something!



    Nah... you young whippersnappers know nothin' about real code: I am talkin' writing Octal Absolute-- don't trust those new-fangled Assembly programs.



    On the RAMAC, it'd be a slide to clear storage:
    Code:


    K99I9900







    On the 650, you pick it... though, it all begins with:
    Code:


    69 Load Distributor







    00 No Operation

    01 Stop

    10 Add Upper Accumulator

    11 Subtract Upper Accumulator

    14 Divide Without Reset

    15 Add Lower Accumulator

    16 Subtract Lower Accumulator

    17 Add Absolute

    18 Subtract Absolute

    19 Multiply

    20 Store Lower Accumulator

    21 Store Upper Accumulator

    22 StoreDataAddress

    23 Store Instruction Address

    24 Store Distributor

    30 ShiftRight

    31 Shift and Round

    35 Shift Left

    36 Shift and Count

    44 Branch Non-Zero Upper

    45 Branch Non-Zero 46 Branch Minus

    47 Branch Overflow

    60 Reset Add Upper Accumulator

    61 Reset Subtract Upper Accumulator

    64 Divide - Reset Upper Accumulator

    65 Reset Add Lower Accumulator

    66 Reset Subtract Lower Accumulator

    67 Reset Add Absolute

    68 Reset Subtract Absolute

    69 Load Distributor

    70 Read

    71 Punch

    84 Table Lookup

    90-99 Branch on Distributor 8



    http://archive.computerhistory.org/r....102646125.pdf





    Gotta' go now, I am writing an iPad app that computes the Indian (native American) problem!

    .
  • Reply 306 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post


    Android is gaining share for two reasons: buy-one-get-one firesales and the lack of iPhone on Verizon. The sun is shining for Android now, but the one-two punch of Oracle's lawsuit and iPhone on Verizon will hit Android like nuclear winter. The clock is ticking, Google...



    I agree the iPhone should be on other carriers; however, if what you say is true then Blackberry should be getting real close to taking over both Android and iOS -- because you can get those FREE. The reason Android is selling well is because of choice. It allows you to choose your carrier, the manufacturer, whether or not you have a keyboard. While Apple forces you to do it their way. Is that a bad thing? Nope, millions of people around the world like it Apple's way. But when you allow your customer to choose -- it's also a good thing.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postulant View Post


    Unless Apple licenses iOS, it has no chance of fending off Android. Android will be as ubiquitous as Windows and Apple will be at 6%, again.



    Apple will never do that. But they can extend to Sprint and Verizon and help themselves.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 0yvind View Post


    You all seem to take these numbers as a fact altough they may be lies. If this firm excludes the iPad but includes them for Apples competitors (type Archos, Dell streak etc) the numbers are skewed.



    It's like presenting a political poll where you include Native Americans if they vote Republican but not if they're Democrats. How can numbers like these be taken seriously.



    Very true my friend!
  • Reply 307 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post


    Android is gaining share for two reasons: buy-one-get-one firesales and the lack of iPhone on Verizon. The sun is shining for Android now, but the one-two punch of Oracle's lawsuit and iPhone on Verizon will hit Android like nuclear winter. The clock is ticking, Google...



    I do believe the same was said when the Apple v. HTC lawsuit came around. Lots of speculation on how it would cause HTC to either do an OTA to kill features or even abandon the platform altogether and deal the death-blow to Android.
  • Reply 308 of 348
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    The "expediting takes a little longer" observation (also known as the "Des Plaines Directive") was made by me as the result of a study I performed on the IBM "Pricing and Forecasting" process. *



    The study showed that a project with 1 line of code and 1 sentence of documentation (already completed) would take 13 months to get through the process. To expedite the process, required an additional 2 weeks (at minimum) to get the required approvals.



    * I used PERT and POP (Piss On Pert) to define all the steps, sign-offs, and interactions to get through the complex process.



    Sure, its easier to ask forgiveness than asking for permission. From an organizational psychology perspective, if you are asking for permission you must have doubts about something, and doubts imply risk et. cetera... If you just do it it was assumed by unknowing management the risk was minimal to nonexistent, so nobody else pokes around unless the wheels come off. Sure you expose yourself to some of that risk if you were wrong, but you get full credit for the reward too.





    Quote:

    As to "technology and techniques" making these old equations overstated-- yes and no. Certainly, in a well run software project "APIs" and "Code Encapsulation" will help with "communication" issues.



    But, in a project involving more than just software, "APIs" and "Code Encapsulation" provide less benefit.



    Why? Computing hardware is just software that cannot be changed except physically. So the interfaces become even more sacrosanct. It also tends to be designed with a lot more care than most software is, making it far less likely to go through disruptive changes on a routine basis. You added API's to my description here which is not my case, they don't encapsulate code at all. I hate (most) APIs, too many projects are created with APIs which are not necessary, and they are almost always poorly used. Well executed code (not just data) encapsulation removes most willy-nilly API calls that just serve to move spaghetti up a couple levels. I spent months looking for a good open source project example for M-V-C design and never found one. [I'd appreciate a reference if anyone knows of one] I did find lots of projects with a mostly M library, a mostly V library and a mostly C library, and then see those API calls completely muddled together. Then, unfortunately and depressingly, on deeper look the Ms Vs and Cs all had rampant internal cross dependencies. No real encapsulation at all. That makes for communication nightmares and ugly crunch times.



    Quote:

    In my experience, there is an "almost magical" way that a good, small team works together -- you just know what the others are doing, with little or no communication necessary: You're on the same wave-length!





    Finally, I'll leave you with this:



    "When any organizational entity expands beyond 21 members, the real power will be in some smaller body."

    --C. Northcote Parkinson



    .



    Parkinson's quote. As it should be. Project Benevolent Dictators or Emperors provide a vital role in keeping a larger project cohesive with a single goal. Software Development as Democracy does not work well.
  • Reply 309 of 348
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,321member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    I do believe the same was said when the Apple v. HTC lawsuit came around. Lots of speculation on how it would cause HTC to either do an OTA to kill features or even abandon the platform altogether and deal the death-blow to Android.





    Apple have a good chance of winning that. The counter suit is laughable. Nokia's suit against Apple will hold water, but will probably that Apple can pay for - as Nokia have not protected that property before, they cant really protect it as rigorously now.
  • Reply 310 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    Apple have a good chance of winning that. The counter suit is laughable. Nokia's suit against Apple will hold water, but will probably that Apple can pay for - as Nokia have not protected that property before, they cant really protect it as rigorously now.



    Chances are, it'll never get to a point where one side "wins". The vast majority of these lawsuits end up being settled out of court. I highly doubt it's going to impact how HTC creates their Android devices in the long run. It'll be years before we hear the end of that lawsuit.
  • Reply 311 of 348
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    How will anyone "crush" Apple when Apple commands that lion's share of the profits by continually selling on margin and not volume?



    by making a better phone and experience. The profit argument gets trotted out whenever the market share issues pops up, generally to change the topic so Apple looks the best. Apple's profits matter in context. If I am a customer looking for a phone, I do not think "Gee, which company makes the most profit from the phone" I look for one that best fills my needs.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    How will anyone "crush" Apple when Apple finally decides to open the floodgates and spread to other US Carriers. Android will become a Nokia-like bargain-basement brand. Already well on its way.



    Except, apparently Android phones sell well in places where the iPhone is on multiple carriers. Why would the US be different.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Nokia leads by far in unit sales, yet they produce the most shitastic phones known to mankind. Are they "crushing" anyone? Nope. Instead they're suffering continual embarrassment (with highest market share.)



    What is your definition of crushing? By the market share definition, they are crushing everyone. You may not like the definition, which is why the people here shift to profits, but it is a legitimate definition.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Apple's already established their reputation for providing hands-down the best User Experience in the market. That won't change anytime soon.



    Best is subjective. It may be best for you, and it may be best for me, but not necessarily for everyone. Also, you assume it won't change. That argument sounds a lot like MS dismissing Apple back in the 90's, and we all know how that turned out.
  • Reply 312 of 348
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,321member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grking View Post






    Except, apparently Android phones sell well in places where the iPhone is on multiple carriers. Why would the US be different.




    Firstly Android is a platform. The iPhone is a device, the iOS is a platform. Ignoring the iPad for now, we cant ignore the iPod Touch - which sells about as many as the iPhone per average quarter.



    Secondly, Here is the UK, last quarter.



    Quote:

    In terms of actual market share, Android went from a paltry three per cent in the first quarter to a respectable 13.2 per cent in the second quarter; and while a 13 per cent market share isn't enormous - compared with Apple's slice of the pie, for example - the growth is remarkable. Much of that is being attributed to high-profile new Android-based handsets which have been released during this time period - think HTC Desire, Samsung i5700, Motorola DEXT- combined with the falling prices of Android-based phones.



    Meanwhile, RIM also increased its market share in the first half of this year, from two to seven per cent, while Apple saw its slice of the UK smartphone market fall to 64 per cent from 75 per cent during those first two quarters. Unsurprisingly, the same research showed that smartphones now represent the lion's share of the mobile phone market, at 73.5 per cent.



    This is not the iOS market, but Apple is crushing Android in the UK and has been established in the UK as the dominant player since it went multiple carrier.



    And that quarter was the quarter the bottom fell out of the 3GS because of the announcement of the iP4. Only in the last two weeks has stock matched supply in the UK, and the 3GS 8G seems impossible to find.



    This quarter will see the iPhone at > 75% of the UK market. In terms of the platform wars iOS is crushing Android here.



    When Apple goes multi-platform Android is dead in the US.
  • Reply 313 of 348
    I've played with some androids and not even the lastest version.

    iPhone on wifi, Android on 3/4G and it's loads a page faster. A page loads before iPhone has half the URL loaded.



    That said a lot of programs and they are making quite a few is you get like 30 days and if you like it you have to buy it but their gps is the bomb. But having to pay for secure HTML browsing is not for me. Although I am looking into new Druids. AT&T for 10+ years. To pricey really. Text uses like no bandwitdh some plans offer free unlimited. Of you don't want a smart phone you can get text and calls to any phone (unlimited) for like $40.00 so att needs to get their act together. Especially with thing like plans and texting. Although free teethering is preety sweet. About speeds of 384-709k.



    Not sure about my next phone. Contract was up in August.
  • Reply 314 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ouragan View Post


    It was bound to happen. It's a repeat of the Mac vs. Windows story of 20-25 years ago for exactly the same reasons:



    1- Apple's refusal to license the iOS which forced Google to write its own Android operating system;



    2- Apple using its early lead and superior OS as a reason to overcharge early adopters with a profit margin of 200% or 250% hidden by a compulsory cell phone contract;



    3- Apple sacrificing its long term interest and market share to realize quick, huge profits on the short term, mostly for the benefit of the CEO and his VPs who receive unheard of stock option bonuses.









    Yes, yes that is it. Apple Held a gun to the head of Google and Forced it to do a copycat touch phone os. Yes, yes it is ALL The fault of Apple.



    Where do you get the 200% profit margin. I have never seen the cost break down of the research that went into the iPhone. Bet you do not have accurate hard numbers either.



    As for the third point, mmmmm... I am a very happy stock holder.
  • Reply 315 of 348
    nhtnht Posts: 4,494member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    Chances are, it'll never get to a point where one side "wins". The vast majority of these lawsuits end up being settled out of court. I highly doubt it's going to impact how HTC creates their Android devices in the long run. It'll be years before we hear the end of that lawsuit.



    If MS indemnifies WP7 against Apple patents then the HTC suit will impact how device makers view Google and Android in relation to alternatives.
  • Reply 316 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gctwnl View Post


    What remains a bottleneck for Android is: how do Android developers (not Android App developers) make money? Currently, because Google funds that. Fine. How does Google make money from Android?



    "Commoditize your compliments":

    http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articl...gyLetterV.html
  • Reply 317 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    If MS indemnifies WP7 against Apple patents then the HTC suit will impact how device makers view Google and Android in relation to alternatives.



    Yes, we'll have to see how WP7 affects things. But as it stands, it doesn't seem like the suit is having much of an effect on the OEMs.
  • Reply 318 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    When Apple goes multi-platform Android is dead in the US.



    And when will Apple go multi-carrier? Apple missed its opportunity to stop the Android threat when it first started getting popular. And so far, all we have are rumors from people "close to the source". But that's been going on forever.
  • Reply 319 of 348
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    Firstly Android is a platform. The iPhone is a device, the iOS is a platform. Ignoring the iPad for now, we cant ignore the iPod Touch - which sells about as many as the iPhone per average quarter.



    Until Android shows up on more than phones, it is a phone. Adding in all iOS devices skews the numbers at this point.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    Secondly, Here is the UK, last quarter.

    This is not the iOS market, but Apple is crushing Android in the UK and has been established in the UK as the dominant player since it went multiple carrier.

    And that quarter was the quarter the bottom fell out of the 3GS because of the announcement of the iP4. Only in the last two weeks has stock matched supply in the UK, and the 3GS 8G seems impossible to find.

    This quarter will see the iPhone at > 75% of the UK market. In terms of the platform wars iOS is crushing Android here.



    When Apple goes multi-platform Android is dead in the US.



    As much as I like UK, like America, it is not the world.



    Look, I love my iPhone, MPB and iMac, but the assumption that Android and Blackberry users are



    1. Poor

    2. Cheap

    3. Stupid



    or some combination of the 3 is simply wrong. As difficult as it may be for some here to believe or perhaps comprehend, people do knowingly purchase other smart phones even if they could easily purchase an iPhone if they wanted.
  • Reply 320 of 348
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    And when will Apple go multi-carrier? Apple missed its opportunity to stop the Android threat when it first started getting popular. And so far, all we have are rumors from people "close to the source". But that's been going on forever.



    Being a huge "Twit Network" fan it's funny listening to Leo Laporte go on and on about the iPhone coming to Verizon.
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