Ping talks between Apple, Facebook failed after 18 months - report

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  • Reply 41 of 111
    irelandireland Posts: 17,570member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post


    You're totally wrong about them 'being dragged kicking and screaming to do anything.' They've always had privacy controls. The issue was how easy it was to use them. The problem is how fine-grained control do you want to give people? There are a lot of dimensions to the issue. FB would like people to keep things relatively open and not succumb to paranoia, because if things are too locked down no one can find each other, no one can see each others posts. Its a delicate balance. FB erred on the side of giving people too much control. You could set everything, and scope it down in some very sophisticated ways. Privacy advocates complained that it was too confusing. Maybe so. I appreciated the flexibility.



    FaceBook makes it obscure to purposely stop people from wanting to set it. Everyone knows this by now.
  • Reply 42 of 111
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Facebook are just as controlling, if not more, than Apple. I'd definitely trust Facebook way less though. Even the CEO thinks we're: "dumb fucks". I closed my FB account 18 months ago, coincidentally - I've never looked back.



    I closed mine 6 months ago and actually feel relieved today
  • Reply 43 of 111
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post


    Try working with Apple as a strategic partner we are lucky to even get a reply that is just, "Sorry, no answer"...



    So?



    It's been that way for decades. If you thought it would change because you became a strategic partner, then you need to rethink your own agenda.



    If I had a buck for every time an evangelist said, "Hey, we're making a right turn in six months", just before they made a full left turn instead two weeks later? Well, let's just say I wouldn't be wondering how my portfolio was doing.
  • Reply 44 of 111
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron View Post


    That was a pretty sleazy move by Apple. No deal, nothing on the table, and Apple integrates them anyways.



    No wonder the magazine and newspaper industries are saying "Thanks, but no thanks". Apple seems to be accumulating enemies a WHOLE lot faster than it is enticing partners.



    What, a negative post against Apple from Newtron? What a schock!



    Amazing how often you are the first to post.



    Are you receiving any form of consideration or compensation for posting comments on this forum?
  • Reply 45 of 111
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justflybob View Post


    So?



    It's been that way for decades. If you thought it would change because you became a strategic partner, then you need to rethink your own agenda.



    If I had a buck for every time an evangelist said, "Hey, we're making a right turn in six months", just before they made a full left turn instead two weeks later? Well, let's just say I wouldn't be wondering how my portfolio was doing.



    So is it ok when Apple acts the way they do towards other companies, but not ok when Facebook does it?
  • Reply 46 of 111
    Originally Posted by Wurm5150

    Right coz Facebook isn't sleazy, who's CEO refers to his company's users as dumb f#%ks and suckers.. Coz a company with complete disregard for privacy and who's CEO doesn't believe in privacy is not sleazy.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron View Post


    Just for the record, I said nothing one way or the other about Facebook.



    It's just amazing the ease with which you prevaricate. For the record, your comment implied that Apple was the in the wrong in their dispute with Facebook. Wurm's counter comparison was completely in order.



    You display this behavior over and over in your posts. Can't you just own your point of view if you are going to continue plaguing this site with your trollery?
  • Reply 47 of 111
    it's a public API, anyone can use it without needing negotiations. Besides they were only using it to help you find friends. I'm sure Apple had hoped to leverage the social network much further than that. It was actually pretty sleazy for Facebook to block it.
  • Reply 48 of 111
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jkichline View Post


    it's a public API, anyone can use it without needing negotiations. Besides they were only using it to help you find friends. I'm sure Apple had hoped to leverage the social network much further than that. It was actually pretty sleazy for Facebook to block it.



    Not quite. Supposedly FB has rules in effect that if your using the API will exceed a certain number of calls per day, then you need special permission to use it.



    Jimmy Joe Bob's personal site is not going to be a drain on FB resources, Google, Apple, MS, Amazon using the API would, hence the rules.
  • Reply 49 of 111
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    You do not know what you are talking about. Facebook has open APIs for developers to use. Anybody can add a connect to Facebook button without getting permission directly from Facebook. The exception is when a developer will dramatically increase the demand on Facebook's servers. Since that exception is a bit of a gray area, Apple wouldn't know what Facebook would do until after it launched.



    Facebook makes money off increased traffic. Seems like it would be thrilled. Likely a dumb move by Facebook.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron View Post


    That was a pretty sleazy move by Apple. No deal, nothing on the table, and Apple integrates them anyways.



    No wonder the magazine and newspaper industries are saying "Thanks, but no thanks". Apple seems to be accumulating enemies a WHOLE lot faster than it is enticing partners.



  • Reply 50 of 111
    mactelmactel Posts: 1,275member
    Ping is a pile of junk. Very buggy, wrecked my iTunes account so i can't buy music (whatever Apple), the navigation buttons are poorly place, not many artists are available on there, and it is built-into iTunes. Ping should be a web page (e.g. www.Apple.com/Ping). It is retarded that I have to go through the bloated iTunes software to get to this social network. I was hopeful to use it but see no value in it for the above mentioned reasons. iTunes 10 is not a major update - its a buggy alpha-of-a-release product. I'm tired of Apple using its base as beta testers for something their should be a golden release.
  • Reply 51 of 111
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,166member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macnyc View Post


    Another lame comment by Tekstud, I mean Newtron.



    Please don't include the idiot's quotes Thank you.
  • Reply 52 of 111
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post


    Like I said "(hence eyeballs, hence ad revenue)"

    My point is, the reason I go on Facebook is to connect with my friends who live all over the place, and catch up on what they're doing. Ping doesn't let you do that at all. You can't customize your homepage. You can't post anything not related to the iTunes store. Its a poor social network and hardly even qualifies as such. It would have been sort of cool as an FB-add-on, but as a stand-alone thing it's not, at least thus far.



    If anyone's interested in music-related social networking, try the Last.FM module for FB. It even integrates into iTunes and will publish what you're listening to, regardless of whether it is available in the iTunes store. Now, that's how it should be done. http://www.last.fm/



    I guess Apple was hoping the FB-connect thing would fly. It seemed like there was brinkmanship going on right up to the release. Its weird seeing Apple pull a "Palm-Pre" sort of maneuver.



    It's really pretty simple. Ping, as was explained by Jobs, is a music related social networking service. It's not designed to compete with Facebook, hence the link to it.



    And as I brought up twice here, though I guess you didn't read it, Apple did nothing wrong. According to Facebook's rules, a service like Apple's doesn't have to do anything as long as daily hits to the Facebook doesn't exceed 100 million per day. With a couple of million members in the beginning, it's very unlikely that Ping would give more than a few million hits a day to Facebook, if that. It's Facebook that's in the wrong here.
  • Reply 53 of 111
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post


    So is it ok when Apple acts the way they do towards other companies, but not ok when Facebook does it?



    When Apple does it, they're wrong, just as Facebook is here.
  • Reply 54 of 111
    nealgnealg Posts: 132member
    Social networking is not realty my cup of tea since I don't belong to any of the networks but it would seem to me, with the lack of any real information out there and everything being total speculation, that this could just be two companies competing to try to get the best deal for their individual companies.
  • Reply 55 of 111
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Let's get some info about Facebooks rules concerning this out here from another article:



    http://www.daemonnews.org/2010/09/04...-the-ping.html
  • Reply 56 of 111
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron View Post


    That was a pretty sleazy move by Apple. No deal, nothing on the table, and Apple integrates them anyways.



    No wonder the magazine and newspaper industries are saying "Thanks, but no thanks". Apple seems to be accumulating enemies a WHOLE lot faster than it is enticing partners.



    apparently you were present at those negotiations. care to share with the group the specifics of said negotiations so we can actually present informed comments? or are you just trolling?

    (i suspect the latter.)
  • Reply 57 of 111
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post


    You're totally wrong about them 'being dragged kicking and screaming to do anything.' They've always had privacy controls. The issue was how easy it was to use them. The problem is how fine-grained control do you want to give people? There are a lot of dimensions to the issue. FB would like people to keep things relatively open and not succumb to paranoia, because if things are too locked down no one can find each other, no one can see each others posts. Its a delicate balance. FB erred on the side of giving people too much control. You could set everything, and scope it down in some very sophisticated ways. Privacy advocates complained that it was too confusing. Maybe so. I appreciated the flexibility.



    Wow, Facebook's own super-apologist. And they're not even paying you. They did have to be dragged kicking and screaming each and every time when they UNILATERALLY open up people's privacy settings.



    They pretend that it's about granularity of controls. But that's not what people are complaining about. The complaint is about something that you set to be private that Facebook would then unilaterally expose.



    Watch Suckerman's interview at All Things D, and see him slip and slither and slime his way around very straightforward questions about their privacy policies.



    This is a company that bases its actions not on what is right or wrong but on what it can and cannot get away with. An ethically rudderless organization that I would never, ever trust with my personal information.
  • Reply 58 of 111
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Why do you care about iAds?



    I was sharing my views from the perspective of a shareholder. As a shareholder, I would like to see Apple seize this opportunity to preserve their business and allow them to be able to continue making amazing products. As a fan, you are right, I really don't care much for iAds except maybe for the fact that I am a lesser fan of Google/Admob.



    Why should we care about ads in general? Because Adsense has allowed Google to become a dominant force in a relatively short amount of time. Today, Google is the 800 pound gorilla that is out to take over the world. It's a money printing machine and it's still a relatively young business. Aside from their search engine which is a well guarded secret despite all their talk about not being evil and being open, what else have they produce themselves? They bought a bunch of companies and there is nothing wrong with that. The world of technology is converging and whether Apple likes it or not, old allies like Google are out to take them on. So Apple has to defend its turf and as someone once said: the best way to preserve your borders is to expand them.
  • Reply 59 of 111
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Yeah, I think eventually Ping will eat Facebooks lunch.



    I'm on it now and it definitely sucks in many ways, but it has great potential. Apples iTunes database is full of high end consumers. I wouldn't be surprised if five years from now FaceBook is like MySpace (for low class users), and Ping is the more desirable upscale social network.



    Ping will not eat Facebook's lunch unless they catch up in terms of:

    1- adoption

    2- features

    They can improve on the 1st by shipping it on every laptop, desktop, phone, ipod they sell. Remember Windows and IE? Look how fast they killed of Netscape.



    They can offer better features by integrating all the services together. Sign in every service or device with the same account. Imagine this scenario: you log into your mac, itunes, me.com, iPhone with the same username and that account is integrated to your FB/flickr/tweeter account. That's single sign on. Make it open, flexible, customizable, easy, safe and people will adopt it.



    The real potential of Ping lies in the potential for Apple to monetize on the data since it merges the social network data of FB with the purchasing data of the world's largest music/app distributor (soon to be media?). That's data worth mining and something that advertisers are willing to pay top dollars for.
  • Reply 60 of 111
    Facebook has only been around for six years, and it could potentially all blow up tomorrow. Companies that appear instantly may disappear just as fast, and the barrier to entry for competitors is not that huge. Anyone remember MySpace?
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