What's wrong with suggesting that other countries try it our way? It has to be better than what some of them are doing now. Don't you think? I didn't say "try it Great Britain's way", because we truly were the first modern democracy. It wasn't our idea, but we are the first modern implementation of it. That's why I said "our way". Believe it or not, the Dutch, French, British, etc were not the first modern democracies.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mate, we´re getting away from the point here.
In a nutshell. You post on here claiming that countries hate your country because they are jealous of your might, power and wealth.
In response to that I said it was nonsense. Later on I explained that it is nonsense because it´s simply not the reason. I told you what the reasons were.
Let me generalize for a bit...
Europeans, including myself, have digs at your country because we dislike overconfidence like you show in your original post.
Muslims, of course not all of them, hate your country for its support to Israel and for its continued presence in the Middle East. Others, however, are happy you are there. However, that is never talked about since these days any Arab must be a muslim and thus a terrorist. That´s the way GWB wants it.
I´m not going to deny that people take the wee out of the USA but in my opinion that is in no way related to a bunch of terrorists who think they have a good enough excuse to kill civilians. You say, and rightfully so, that you have a right to be pissed off by what happened on 9/11 but don´t the Arabs have a right to be pissed off by things that the US has done against them?
Now, like I said, there are things about America that I don´t understand or simply dislike but I´d still love to live there for a while in the near future. Not as long as GWB is in office though!
So in the end, what I wanted to say, was that you´re right to claim that countries hate the US. Just not for the reasons that you suggested.
[quote] However, that is never talked about since these days any Arab must be a muslim and thus a terrorist. That´s the way GWB wants it. <hr></blockquote>
What? He has PUBLICLY stated that he doesn't want this to become a war against Islam. Your statement is totally ridiculous.
[quote]Now, like I said, there are things about America that I don´t understand or simply dislike but I´d still love to live there for a while in the near future. Not as long as GWB is in office though! <hr></blockquote>
Who do you want? Gore? Daschle? Gephardt? Good idea.
I admit there wasn't much of a choice last time but, I would and did vote for Gore before Dubbya.
Dubbya is a little too quick on the trigger ( in a general sense not making reference to 9/11 ), too quick to see everyone else as " savage injuns ", and a little thick with the worn out cowboy dialog " Smoke em out ".
Some people think that in this crisis Gore wouldn't have been strong enough.
I fully believe that had Gore been elected the results today would be the same. But, of course we can't put that to the test.
One thing I do believe is that we didn't make any friends by electing Bush.
SDW = your an idiot. And global warming is real, and we better think about new models of dealing with the world because what we decide is important will effect all of the world in the furure.
Well, I'm glad there is some intelligence here and not just the knuckle walking, brow bulging attitudes I've been reading. Yes, global warming is real! Get used to it. Yes, we can really f*** things up royal if we don't lose the attitude that if we don't look at it it'll just go away. No we don't understand it fully but, we understand enough to know it's real.
I've heard those ideas about it just being the earth naturally shifting it's weather patterns. That kind of reminds me of those old scifi movies where one scientist is trying to explain the world is coming to an end and we'd better do something and another is saying there's nothing to worry about.
If you haven't watched those movies guess which was right?
How can glabal warming be a theory? Fact is pollutants have to go somewhere. If they are not filtered out then guess what! They go into the air. Up and up and up ! They form an insulating shield around an area and keep heat in the atmosphere. Weather patterns shift the warmth around. The whole earth is affected. Basic thermodynamics.
[quote]SDW = your an idiot. And global warming is real, and we better think about new models of dealing with the world because what we decide is important will effect all of the world in the furure. <hr></blockquote>
I never said it wasn't real. This shows the true facists of the world are not conservatives, but liberals. Anyone who even SUGGESTS that Global Warming MAY not be as big a problem as some say is flamed to death and called an idiot, just because he/she isn't willing to buy into the environmental lobby's line of **** . The same applies to any person who would dare question the liberal agenda.
[quote]Yes, we can really f*** things up royal if we don't lose the attitude that if we don't look at it it'll just go away. No we don't understand it fully but, we understand enough to know it's real. <hr></blockquote>
Who ever said that? Read my above response.
[quote] How can glabal warming be a theory? Fact is pollutants have to go somewhere. If they are not filtered out then guess what! They go into the air. Up and up and up ! They form an insulating shield around an area and keep heat in the atmosphere. Weather patterns shift the warmth around. The whole earth is affected. Basic thermodynamics. <hr></blockquote>
Because it IS a THEORY. Granted, there is fair amount of evidence that shows it is real, but it is short-term evidence when compared to climate cycles over the history of the earth. There is still some debate over the existence of global warming. There is further debate over whether man is causing it. I actually AGREE with you! I think, that in all probability, it is real and we are at least helping it along. But I don't think Bush is to blame, and I don't think his administration is anti-environment. If you believe that, you are one more statisical casulty of the criminal liberal media.
Oh, and thanks for 16th century view of the atmosphere and its common sense explanantion, Mr. Outsider.
Because it IS a THEORY. Granted, there is fair amount of evidence that shows it is real, but it is short-term evidence when compared to climate cycles over the history of the earth. There is still some debate over the existence of global warming. There is further debate over whether man is causing it. I actually AGREE with you! I think, that in all probability, it is real and we are at least helping it along. But I don't think Bush is to blame, and I don't think his administration is anti-environment. If you believe that, you are one more statisical casulty of the criminal liberal media.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Evolution's a theory too. Despite all the archeological and genetic evidence, and 'nuff case studies that demonstrate it occuring within three generations.
So nothing to worry about. Just a theory. Heads back in the sand y'all.
Every other word in that article (by Steven Millroy) reveals an extreme bias . . . the kind of bias that you reveal... a closed minded reaction to anything percieved as originating in the opposite camp politically.
Its clear that he is preaching to the converted, his mind is made up and he wont think beyond his catch phrases (such as "anti-business", "sneaky attempt", "global warming-loving media" (like foxnews?)ect) He is an ideologue.
And the people he is talking about as allies, the "non-profit Competitive Enterprise Institute," are not scientists, they are ideologically impaired, ultra-conservatives like yourself, that would rather we steer ourselves directly towards what over 90% of scientist say is trouble, simply because they have some political problems seeing anything for what it is.
The idiocy of this man is bottomless, look at the sayings he uses . . . yes, as an adult, writing supposed journalistic opinions he says this kind of thing to make points : "(sort of like the vegetarian who had a cheeseburger because, unfortunately, she got hungry)" Jee ..yeah... its just like those damn feminist bitch vegetarians commie pinkos" oops...stuped to his level...
IT is clear that phenomena on the Earth effect weather conditions: volcanos can drastically alter weather and have been shown to do so: Humans have altered the landscape drastically, and it has a marked effect on local weather conditions: cities effect rainfall and temperature a great deal, and you need to look no further than the Aral Sea to see that humans can have a severely catastrophic and large scale effect on the environment, which, in turn, seriously alters millions of lives. Granted, what may happen with global warming may take a long time and we may adapt by moving vinyards up north etc, but there will still be many needless tragedies along the way.
And this man's blythe dismissal of scientific thought in favor of his politicized opinions is IRRESPONCIBLE at best
He is no more an authority than you are... and your bias is written all over you . . . and once again... how come you people never notice this: the people who are crying "Liberal media bias" are ALWAYS DOING SO THROUGH THE MEDIA!!!!!!
Where are the poeple who say it is corporate media?
they are always outside of the media limelight!!! --ostracized because they don't sell!!! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
And is the Pew Charitable trust seen as a bastion of Liberalism because it gives money to that commie network PBS? with their damn animal shows!!!
Or worse, their three hours straight of business and financial news analysis programs DAILY!!!!!!!
Where are the real liberal shows, about real liberal issues? When was the last time you saw a regular hour long weekly program about labor politics?!?!?! never... and you never will either.... unless its on public access.... but don't worry, conservatives will AXE access channels as soon as they can
Its articles like this that make it almost impossible to think without myself becoming the knee-jerk that he is . . I try to embrace all thought: Right & Left.... but then some idiot comes along and starts spouting Mao, or, denying human environmental impact and it gets harder and harder <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Pfflam, anger is a poor substitute for thought. A person's poltical bias makes absolutely no difference as to whether he is right or not. Somebody writes for the Jerusalem Post or for Fox News and your mind snaps shut.
I didn't read the link SDW2001 posted but your post doesn't address the global warming issue very well either. Pointing to examples where man has had a localized, negative environmental impact does not prove a causal link between human activity and global warming. No such link has been established.
IMO, this is the fundamental problem with green politics. It's more about emotion than it is about science.
Before making posts like this, you should really be informed of the issues. Read some Parenti. Perhaps when you learn about the political economy of your farcical mass media, you will understand the paradoxical nature in which you, and all other Americans live.
There are 32 Million people in the USA that live below the poverty line. The only time you see them in the media is at Christmas and Thanksgiving. This reinforces the extreme rightist notion that everyone has enough to eat. Funny how you never see the poor in the media the rest of the time, or more importantly WHY they are poor.
People are poor in the United States because your halfway democracy does NOT work. The media treats recession and depression as inevitable, but the truth of the matter is that it is the greedy capitalistic nature of humungous corporations that bring about recession. Why don't you know about this? Because you trust media sources that are run by these large corporations.
<strong>Before making posts like this, you should really be informed of the issues. Read some Parenti. Perhaps when you learn about the political economy of your farcical mass media, you will understand the paradoxical nature in which you, and all other Americans live.
There are 32 Million people in the USA that live below the poverty line. The only time you see them in the media is at Christmas and Thanksgiving. This reinforces the extreme rightist notion that everyone has enough to eat. Funny how you never see the poor in the media the rest of the time, or more importantly WHY they are poor.
People are poor in the United States because your halfway democracy does NOT work. The media treats recession and depression as inevitable, but the truth of the matter is that it is the greedy capitalistic nature of humungous corporations that bring about recession. Why don't you know about this? Because you trust media sources that are run by these large corporations.
Do you homework</strong><hr></blockquote>
Living below the poverty line in the US is akin to being middle class in poorer countries. Its all relative to where you live. When a country takes in a million poor, uneducated immigrants a year theres bound to be a large underclass. Most eventually end up in the middle class. The US has a very dynamic economy and anyone who works hard and gets an education has a damn good chance of making it...............................................
I can't believe that with evidence pointing in the direction that we do have an effect on the earth's climate there are still people out there who want to take a chance. I mean once it's done it's done. There are so many things in our life that we use every day that we don't fully understand how they work. We just have enough knowlege to know that they do.
Our world mostly runs on theories
To put it in very simple terms I haven't stuck my hand in a lawnmower blade while the engine was running yet. I don't know what would happen. I can speculate but, it's just a theory. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Comments
<strong>
What's wrong with suggesting that other countries try it our way? It has to be better than what some of them are doing now. Don't you think? I didn't say "try it Great Britain's way", because we truly were the first modern democracy. It wasn't our idea, but we are the first modern implementation of it. That's why I said "our way". Believe it or not, the Dutch, French, British, etc were not the first modern democracies.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mate, we´re getting away from the point here.
In a nutshell. You post on here claiming that countries hate your country because they are jealous of your might, power and wealth.
In response to that I said it was nonsense. Later on I explained that it is nonsense because it´s simply not the reason. I told you what the reasons were.
Let me generalize for a bit...
Europeans, including myself, have digs at your country because we dislike overconfidence like you show in your original post.
Muslims, of course not all of them, hate your country for its support to Israel and for its continued presence in the Middle East. Others, however, are happy you are there. However, that is never talked about since these days any Arab must be a muslim and thus a terrorist. That´s the way GWB wants it.
I´m not going to deny that people take the wee out of the USA but in my opinion that is in no way related to a bunch of terrorists who think they have a good enough excuse to kill civilians. You say, and rightfully so, that you have a right to be pissed off by what happened on 9/11 but don´t the Arabs have a right to be pissed off by things that the US has done against them?
Now, like I said, there are things about America that I don´t understand or simply dislike but I´d still love to live there for a while in the near future. Not as long as GWB is in office though!
So in the end, what I wanted to say, was that you´re right to claim that countries hate the US. Just not for the reasons that you suggested.
>(in voice of petulant nine-year-old.<
are you describing one of your posts?....................
[quote] However, that is never talked about since these days any Arab must be a muslim and thus a terrorist. That´s the way GWB wants it. <hr></blockquote>
What? He has PUBLICLY stated that he doesn't want this to become a war against Islam. Your statement is totally ridiculous.
[quote]Now, like I said, there are things about America that I don´t understand or simply dislike but I´d still love to live there for a while in the near future. Not as long as GWB is in office though! <hr></blockquote>
Who do you want? Gore? Daschle? Gephardt? Good idea.
Dubbya is a little too quick on the trigger ( in a general sense not making reference to 9/11 ), too quick to see everyone else as " savage injuns ", and a little thick with the worn out cowboy dialog " Smoke em out ".
Some people think that in this crisis Gore wouldn't have been strong enough.
I fully believe that had Gore been elected the results today would be the same. But, of course we can't put that to the test.
One thing I do believe is that we didn't make any friends by electing Bush.
Yee Ha! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
]
[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
Besides I'm a Nader man!
I've heard those ideas about it just being the earth naturally shifting it's weather patterns. That kind of reminds me of those old scifi movies where one scientist is trying to explain the world is coming to an end and we'd better do something and another is saying there's nothing to worry about.
If you haven't watched those movies guess which was right?
[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
I never said it wasn't real. This shows the true facists of the world are not conservatives, but liberals. Anyone who even SUGGESTS that Global Warming MAY not be as big a problem as some say is flamed to death and called an idiot, just because he/she isn't willing to buy into the environmental lobby's line of **** . The same applies to any person who would dare question the liberal agenda.
[quote]Yes, we can really f*** things up royal if we don't lose the attitude that if we don't look at it it'll just go away. No we don't understand it fully but, we understand enough to know it's real. <hr></blockquote>
Who ever said that? Read my above response.
[quote] How can glabal warming be a theory? Fact is pollutants have to go somewhere. If they are not filtered out then guess what! They go into the air. Up and up and up ! They form an insulating shield around an area and keep heat in the atmosphere. Weather patterns shift the warmth around. The whole earth is affected. Basic thermodynamics. <hr></blockquote>
Because it IS a THEORY. Granted, there is fair amount of evidence that shows it is real, but it is short-term evidence when compared to climate cycles over the history of the earth. There is still some debate over the existence of global warming. There is further debate over whether man is causing it. I actually AGREE with you! I think, that in all probability, it is real and we are at least helping it along. But I don't think Bush is to blame, and I don't think his administration is anti-environment. If you believe that, you are one more statisical casulty of the criminal liberal media.
Oh, and thanks for 16th century view of the atmosphere and its common sense explanantion, Mr. Outsider.
[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]
[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
You mean now your'e saying it's real. Nice backpeddling.
The liberal threat, the liberal threat! You clearly have issues.
Well I don't generally agree with conservatives but, they can be right sometimes. Just not this time.
Bush has demonstrated the same attitude ( or lack there of ) toward eniviromental issues that many of his republican predecessors have.
By the way I'm registered independent and would have voted for Nader if I'd thought he had a snowball's chance in hell.
[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
<strong>macvasco, are you a Brit living in Bilbao?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, I´m Dutch. I´m currently in Bilbao teaching English and after that I´ll move back to Ireland where I study law.
More than you asked for..sorry
<strong>
Because it IS a THEORY. Granted, there is fair amount of evidence that shows it is real, but it is short-term evidence when compared to climate cycles over the history of the earth. There is still some debate over the existence of global warming. There is further debate over whether man is causing it. I actually AGREE with you! I think, that in all probability, it is real and we are at least helping it along. But I don't think Bush is to blame, and I don't think his administration is anti-environment. If you believe that, you are one more statisical casulty of the criminal liberal media.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Evolution's a theory too. Despite all the archeological and genetic evidence, and 'nuff case studies that demonstrate it occuring within three generations.
So nothing to worry about. Just a theory. Heads back in the sand y'all.
<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,54676,00.html"; target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,54676,00.html</a>;
Its clear that he is preaching to the converted, his mind is made up and he wont think beyond his catch phrases (such as "anti-business", "sneaky attempt", "global warming-loving media" (like foxnews?)ect) He is an ideologue.
And the people he is talking about as allies, the "non-profit Competitive Enterprise Institute," are not scientists, they are ideologically impaired, ultra-conservatives like yourself, that would rather we steer ourselves directly towards what over 90% of scientist say is trouble, simply because they have some political problems seeing anything for what it is.
The idiocy of this man is bottomless, look at the sayings he uses . . . yes, as an adult, writing supposed journalistic opinions he says this kind of thing to make points : "(sort of like the vegetarian who had a cheeseburger because, unfortunately, she got hungry)" Jee ..yeah... its just like those damn feminist bitch vegetarians commie pinkos" oops...stuped to his level...
IT is clear that phenomena on the Earth effect weather conditions: volcanos can drastically alter weather and have been shown to do so: Humans have altered the landscape drastically, and it has a marked effect on local weather conditions: cities effect rainfall and temperature a great deal, and you need to look no further than the Aral Sea to see that humans can have a severely catastrophic and large scale effect on the environment, which, in turn, seriously alters millions of lives. Granted, what may happen with global warming may take a long time and we may adapt by moving vinyards up north etc, but there will still be many needless tragedies along the way.
And this man's blythe dismissal of scientific thought in favor of his politicized opinions is IRRESPONCIBLE at best
He is no more an authority than you are... and your bias is written all over you . . . and once again... how come you people never notice this: the people who are crying "Liberal media bias" are ALWAYS DOING SO THROUGH THE MEDIA!!!!!!
Where are the poeple who say it is corporate media?
they are always outside of the media limelight!!! --ostracized because they don't sell!!!
And is the Pew Charitable trust seen as a bastion of Liberalism because it gives money to that commie network PBS? with their damn animal shows!!!
Or worse, their three hours straight of business and financial news analysis programs DAILY!!!!!!!
Where are the real liberal shows, about real liberal issues? When was the last time you saw a regular hour long weekly program about labor politics?!?!?! never... and you never will either.... unless its on public access.... but don't worry, conservatives will AXE access channels as soon as they can
Its articles like this that make it almost impossible to think without myself becoming the knee-jerk that he is . . I try to embrace all thought: Right & Left.... but then some idiot comes along and starts spouting Mao, or, denying human environmental impact and it gets harder and harder <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
I didn't read the link SDW2001 posted but your post doesn't address the global warming issue very well either. Pointing to examples where man has had a localized, negative environmental impact does not prove a causal link between human activity and global warming. No such link has been established.
IMO, this is the fundamental problem with green politics. It's more about emotion than it is about science.
There are 32 Million people in the USA that live below the poverty line. The only time you see them in the media is at Christmas and Thanksgiving. This reinforces the extreme rightist notion that everyone has enough to eat. Funny how you never see the poor in the media the rest of the time, or more importantly WHY they are poor.
People are poor in the United States because your halfway democracy does NOT work. The media treats recession and depression as inevitable, but the truth of the matter is that it is the greedy capitalistic nature of humungous corporations that bring about recession. Why don't you know about this? Because you trust media sources that are run by these large corporations.
Do you homework
<strong>Before making posts like this, you should really be informed of the issues. Read some Parenti. Perhaps when you learn about the political economy of your farcical mass media, you will understand the paradoxical nature in which you, and all other Americans live.
There are 32 Million people in the USA that live below the poverty line. The only time you see them in the media is at Christmas and Thanksgiving. This reinforces the extreme rightist notion that everyone has enough to eat. Funny how you never see the poor in the media the rest of the time, or more importantly WHY they are poor.
People are poor in the United States because your halfway democracy does NOT work. The media treats recession and depression as inevitable, but the truth of the matter is that it is the greedy capitalistic nature of humungous corporations that bring about recession. Why don't you know about this? Because you trust media sources that are run by these large corporations.
Do you homework</strong><hr></blockquote>
Living below the poverty line in the US is akin to being middle class in poorer countries. Its all relative to where you live. When a country takes in a million poor, uneducated immigrants a year theres bound to be a large underclass. Most eventually end up in the middle class. The US has a very dynamic economy and anyone who works hard and gets an education has a damn good chance of making it...............................................
Our world mostly runs on theories
To put it in very simple terms I haven't stuck my hand in a lawnmower blade while the engine was running yet. I don't know what would happen. I can speculate but, it's just a theory. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[ 06-08-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>