For Europeans to just fall back to very sterotypical resentments and to underestimate Americans on a number of issues is not right.
Let them underestimate up. They underestimated us during the revolutioanry war. They underestimated us during WW1. And WW2. Since then we have grown to be the biggest superpower in the world. Keep on underestimating us! The Taliban underestimated us...
<strong>. I wasn't talking about friggin' France, here folks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
France doesn't like us as well- mainly because they see us a bunch of cowboy hat waving jingoists. GWB perpetuates that image.
[quote]Originally posted by spaceman_spiff:
<strong>
Yeah, name-calling and swearing is so much better. At least you sincerely belittled him.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Get off your highly pious horse about swearing. I used it to puncuate my message, not as a substitute for the message itself. As for name calling- We've settled that issue way back in page one. It's clear that throughout SDW2001's posts, name calling is a vital part. Just think of how many times he used the word "liberal," which he clarified to mean as a "curse" word. Please, you're hypocritical to criticize me. (Although, unlike GWB, I am completely open to it)
France doesn't like us as well- mainly because they see us a bunch of cowboy hat waving jingoists. GWB perpetuates that image.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If that's all you're looking for, then that's all you'll find.
If that's all you're looking for, then that's all you'll find.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please. The US creates its world image through foreign policy. (It's like a job interview... you know that you are qualified but you must SHOW it.) Ignoring mostly every other country but itself for the majority of GWB's administration does not bode well with other countries- thus perpetuating the cowboy hat waving, isolationist American stereotype.
The Americans are not stupid and are very aware of the environment and greenhouse emmissons.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes- about half of all Americans and those who voted for Gore actually care. Democrats actually do things about the environment- even when it hurts Big Industry. Republicans aren't willing to support the environment to that extent. Sure they WANT greener pastures and bluer skies, but voting republican AIN'T gonna make it happen any time soon. I would be moritified to be in Christie Todd Whitman's shoes.
[quote]Originally posted by eat@me:
<strong>
The idea that Americans do not read or care about international press or issues is false. For Europeans to just fall back to very sterotypical resentments and to underestimate Americans on a number of issues is not right. There is a definate fragmentation going on between Europe and US and this is, in essence, the general thread of this topic. If we are allies, we should act like allies and not like pissed off siblings. These are my observations.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Read my above post about the perpuation of stereotypes.
Please. The US creates its image through foreign policy. Ignoring mostly every other country but itself for the majority of GWB's administration does not bode well with other countries- thus perpetuating the cowboy hat waving, isolationist American stereotype.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please. The U.S. has responsibilities that other nations don't have. The idea that this administration is isolationist is absurd. Peddling such canards is not the same thing as seriously thinking about international affairs.
Please. The U.S. has responsibilities that other nations don't have. The idea that this administration is isolationist is absurd. Peddling such canards is not the same thing as seriously thinking about international affairs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't mock me. If the US is a world leader, then it should SHOW it on the world stage as a world player- not a go-it-alone ball hog. It's fact that the 43 administration did almost nothing on it until they were forced to as a result of the explosive events of 911.
Nothing here is truly "serious thinking about international affairs." If that's what you are looking for, then read Fareed Zakaria of Newsweek or an essay or serious newspaper article about it. AI Forums is akin to a tableside discussion.
Don't mock me. If the US is a world leader, then it should SHOW it on the world stage as a world player- not a go-it-alone ball hog.</strong><hr></blockquote>
A ball hog? Sorry but you make it awfully hard to not mock you.
We can't not be a world player even if we tried. And we're not. The simple fact is that our interests are global. As such there's always going to be somebody who isn't happy with us. If Bejing doesn't like us, Taipei still does. If Paris is peeved, Moscow is has it's own set of reasons to be pleased with us. You can't please everybody all the time. We shouldn't even try.
A ball hog? Sorry but you make it awfully hard to not mock you.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'll try to focus on the substance of your messages rather than on any snobbish personal attack.
[quote]Originally posted by spaceman_spiff:
<strong>
We can't not be a world player even if we tried. And we're not.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Can you please clarify that statement? Your use of a double negative "can't/not" obscurs your point. (can not not?) Notice that I don't use my knowlege of the english language to belittle you for making a mistake- I give you the opportunity to clarify.
[quote]Originally posted by spaceman_spiff:
<strong>
The simple fact is that our interests are global. As such there's always going to be somebody who isn't happy with us. If Bejing doesn't like us, Taipei still does. If Paris is peeved, Moscow is has it's own set of reasons to be pleased with us. You can't please everybody all the time. We shouldn't even try.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well... agreed. Though, no one claims to please everyone anyway. Is that what you got from my post? Listen, stepping up on the world stage DOESN'T involve pleasing everyone. But the act of stepping up WILL show that we are not the stereotypical ugly Americans that we project to other nations.
You're worried about our looks? i don't care if people think we are fat and ugly. Our stock comes from their countries so they are just insulting themselves.
French guy: You fat, stoo-ped , oogly American! You are a peeg!
American: Thanks, I'm half french! Nice to meet you too! w00t! I have to go to McDonalds and get half a dozen Big Macs and go home to watch teevee. Man, I wish they delivered.
<strong>I'll try to focus on the substance of your messages rather than on any snobbish personal attack.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, it must be so hard for you to not just swear at me or call me a name. I?m impressed.
[quote]<strong>Can you please clarify that statement? Your use of a double negative "can't/not" obscurs your point. (can not not?) Notice that I don't use my knowlege of the english language to belittle you for making a mistake- I give you the opportunity to clarify.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow! What a guy!
[quote]<strong>Well... agreed. Though, no one claims to please everyone anyway. Is that what you got from my post? Listen, stepping up on the world stage DOESN'T involve please everyone. But the act of stepping up WILL show that we are not the stereotypical fat, ugly Americans.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That?s your stereotype. We are already on the world stage There?s no stepping up to do. Just because Bush doesn?t have your priorities that doesn?t mean we are isolationist.
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> No, not quite. You're entirely amusing, but probably just missed the point. The "Ugly American" stereotype is what Europe thinks of us. Such headlines appeared in many Euro newspapers when the US Golf team beat PGA Europe in that tournament a few years back.
<strong>I'll try to focus on the substance of your messages rather than on any snobbish personal attack.</strong><hr></blockquote>Yeah. That's just the spaceman's MO. I think he just honestly believes he is superior, so he doesn't realize that he's doing it.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> spaceman_spiff, in another conversation, we'd be friends.
But seriously, it seems the far right uses "sarcasm" to make their point. Why can't we just be earnest about things? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Reading all this thread i come to the conclusion that there is too many stereotypes in each side in it.
We are supposed to be intelligent people trying to remove stereotypes with a constructive discussion. In fact i see that too many stereotypes are promoted in this thread.
Discovering the differences of other and try to understand them is interesting, flames wars can be fun from time to time but will not improve your culture and your wisdom
<strong> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> spaceman_spiff, in another conversation, we'd be friends. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't doubt it. I have a lot of liberal friends.
[quote]<strong>But seriously, it seems the far right uses "sarcasm" to make their point. Why can't we just be earnest about things? </strong><hr></blockquote>
The far right. Yeah, that's it. No stereotypes here. What do you expect? Sarcasm is a pretty obvious response to someone who bitches about the perpetuation of stereotypes while relying on them like a crutch.
The far right. Yeah, that's it. No stereotypes here. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I suggested the possibility that the far right may rely upon sarcasm more frequently and crtically than the far left. The distinction lies at suggesting a general trend rather than stereotyping the former group.
[quote]Originally posted by spaceman_spiff:
<strong>
What do you expect? Sarcasm is a pretty obvious response to someone who bitches about the perpetuation of stereotypes while relying on them like a crutch.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes- your use of sarcasm was "obvious." As opposed to what- "implicit?" Sarcasm in any form is wrong in an earnest dicussion because it mocks the other person.
The "Ugly American" stereotype is what Europe thinks of us. Such headlines appeared in many Euro newspapers when the US Golf team beat PGA Europe in that tournament a few years back.
What, what, what?!?! Please explain this more, i think you were trying to make a point but someone kidnapped your body and pressed the Add Reply button before you typed it. or else somebody better call the US soccer team before they beat anymore European teams! This could lead to WW3!
Comments
Let them underestimate up. They underestimated us during the revolutioanry war. They underestimated us during WW1. And WW2. Since then we have grown to be the biggest superpower in the world. Keep on underestimating us! The Taliban underestimated us...
<strong>. I wasn't talking about friggin' France, here folks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
France doesn't like us as well- mainly because they see us a bunch of cowboy hat waving jingoists. GWB perpetuates that image.
[quote]Originally posted by spaceman_spiff:
<strong>
Yeah, name-calling and swearing is so much better. At least you sincerely belittled him.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Get off your highly pious horse about swearing. I used it to puncuate my message, not as a substitute for the message itself. As for name calling- We've settled that issue way back in page one. It's clear that throughout SDW2001's posts, name calling is a vital part. Just think of how many times he used the word "liberal," which he clarified to mean as a "curse" word. Please, you're hypocritical to criticize me. (Although, unlike GWB, I am completely open to it)
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: sjpsu ]</p>
<strong>
France doesn't like us as well- mainly because they see us a bunch of cowboy hat waving jingoists. GWB perpetuates that image.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If that's all you're looking for, then that's all you'll find.
<strong>
If that's all you're looking for, then that's all you'll find.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please. The US creates its world image through foreign policy. (It's like a job interview... you know that you are qualified but you must SHOW it.) Ignoring mostly every other country but itself for the majority of GWB's administration does not bode well with other countries- thus perpetuating the cowboy hat waving, isolationist American stereotype.
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: sjpsu ]</p>
<strong>
The Americans are not stupid and are very aware of the environment and greenhouse emmissons.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes- about half of all Americans and those who voted for Gore actually care. Democrats actually do things about the environment- even when it hurts Big Industry. Republicans aren't willing to support the environment to that extent. Sure they WANT greener pastures and bluer skies, but voting republican AIN'T gonna make it happen any time soon. I would be moritified to be in Christie Todd Whitman's shoes.
[quote]Originally posted by eat@me:
<strong>
The idea that Americans do not read or care about international press or issues is false. For Europeans to just fall back to very sterotypical resentments and to underestimate Americans on a number of issues is not right. There is a definate fragmentation going on between Europe and US and this is, in essence, the general thread of this topic. If we are allies, we should act like allies and not like pissed off siblings. These are my observations.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Read my above post about the perpuation of stereotypes.
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: sjpsu ]</p>
<strong>
Please. The US creates its image through foreign policy. Ignoring mostly every other country but itself for the majority of GWB's administration does not bode well with other countries- thus perpetuating the cowboy hat waving, isolationist American stereotype.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please. The U.S. has responsibilities that other nations don't have. The idea that this administration is isolationist is absurd. Peddling such canards is not the same thing as seriously thinking about international affairs.
<strong>
Please. The U.S. has responsibilities that other nations don't have. The idea that this administration is isolationist is absurd. Peddling such canards is not the same thing as seriously thinking about international affairs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't mock me. If the US is a world leader, then it should SHOW it on the world stage as a world player- not a go-it-alone ball hog. It's fact that the 43 administration did almost nothing on it until they were forced to as a result of the explosive events of 911.
Nothing here is truly "serious thinking about international affairs." If that's what you are looking for, then read Fareed Zakaria of Newsweek or an essay or serious newspaper article about it. AI Forums is akin to a tableside discussion.
<strong>
Don't mock me. If the US is a world leader, then it should SHOW it on the world stage as a world player- not a go-it-alone ball hog.</strong><hr></blockquote>
A ball hog? Sorry but you make it awfully hard to not mock you.
We can't not be a world player even if we tried. And we're not. The simple fact is that our interests are global. As such there's always going to be somebody who isn't happy with us. If Bejing doesn't like us, Taipei still does. If Paris is peeved, Moscow is has it's own set of reasons to be pleased with us. You can't please everybody all the time. We shouldn't even try.
<strong>
A ball hog? Sorry but you make it awfully hard to not mock you.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'll try to focus on the substance of your messages rather than on any snobbish personal attack.
[quote]Originally posted by spaceman_spiff:
<strong>
We can't not be a world player even if we tried. And we're not.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Can you please clarify that statement? Your use of a double negative "can't/not" obscurs your point. (can not not?) Notice that I don't use my knowlege of the english language to belittle you for making a mistake- I give you the opportunity to clarify.
[quote]Originally posted by spaceman_spiff:
<strong>
The simple fact is that our interests are global. As such there's always going to be somebody who isn't happy with us. If Bejing doesn't like us, Taipei still does. If Paris is peeved, Moscow is has it's own set of reasons to be pleased with us. You can't please everybody all the time. We shouldn't even try.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well... agreed. Though, no one claims to please everyone anyway. Is that what you got from my post? Listen, stepping up on the world stage DOESN'T involve pleasing everyone. But the act of stepping up WILL show that we are not the stereotypical ugly Americans that we project to other nations.
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: sjpsu ]
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: sjpsu ]</p>
French guy: You fat, stoo-ped , oogly American! You are a peeg!
American: Thanks, I'm half french! Nice to meet you too! w00t! I have to go to McDonalds and get half a dozen Big Macs and go home to watch teevee. Man, I wish they delivered.
<strong>I'll try to focus on the substance of your messages rather than on any snobbish personal attack.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, it must be so hard for you to not just swear at me or call me a name. I?m impressed.
[quote]<strong>Can you please clarify that statement? Your use of a double negative "can't/not" obscurs your point. (can not not?) Notice that I don't use my knowlege of the english language to belittle you for making a mistake- I give you the opportunity to clarify.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow! What a guy!
[quote]<strong>Well... agreed. Though, no one claims to please everyone anyway. Is that what you got from my post? Listen, stepping up on the world stage DOESN'T involve please everyone. But the act of stepping up WILL show that we are not the stereotypical fat, ugly Americans.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That?s your stereotype. We are already on the world stage There?s no stepping up to do. Just because Bush doesn?t have your priorities that doesn?t mean we are isolationist.
<strong>You're worried about our looks?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> No, not quite. You're entirely amusing, but probably just missed the point. The "Ugly American" stereotype is what Europe thinks of us. Such headlines appeared in many Euro newspapers when the US Golf team beat PGA Europe in that tournament a few years back.
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: sjpsu ]</p>
<strong>I'll try to focus on the substance of your messages rather than on any snobbish personal attack.</strong><hr></blockquote>Yeah. That's just the spaceman's MO. I think he just honestly believes he is superior, so he doesn't realize that he's doing it.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
But seriously, it seems the far right uses "sarcasm" to make their point. Why can't we just be earnest about things? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>Yeah. That's just the spaceman's MO. I think he just honestly believes he is superior, so he doesn't realize that he's doing it.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
We are supposed to be intelligent people trying to remove stereotypes with a constructive discussion. In fact i see that too many stereotypes are promoted in this thread.
Discovering the differences of other and try to understand them is interesting, flames wars can be fun from time to time but will not improve your culture and your wisdom
Amen
<strong> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> spaceman_spiff, in another conversation, we'd be friends.
I don't doubt it. I have a lot of liberal friends.
[quote]<strong>But seriously, it seems the far right uses "sarcasm" to make their point. Why can't we just be earnest about things?
The far right. Yeah, that's it. No stereotypes here. What do you expect? Sarcasm is a pretty obvious response to someone who bitches about the perpetuation of stereotypes while relying on them like a crutch.
<strong>Yeah. That's just the spaceman's MO. I think he just honestly believes he is superior, so he doesn't realize that he's doing it.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
And BRussell's MO is to police my posts.
<strong>
The far right. Yeah, that's it. No stereotypes here. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I suggested the possibility that the far right may rely upon sarcasm more frequently and crtically than the far left. The distinction lies at suggesting a general trend rather than stereotyping the former group.
[quote]Originally posted by spaceman_spiff:
<strong>
What do you expect? Sarcasm is a pretty obvious response to someone who bitches about the perpetuation of stereotypes while relying on them like a crutch.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes- your use of sarcasm was "obvious." As opposed to what- "implicit?" Sarcasm in any form is wrong in an earnest dicussion because it mocks the other person.
but probably just missed the point.
The "Ugly American" stereotype is what Europe thinks of us. Such headlines appeared in many Euro newspapers when the US Golf team beat PGA Europe in that tournament a few years back.
What, what, what?!?! Please explain this more, i think you were trying to make a point but someone kidnapped your body and pressed the Add Reply button before you typed it. or else somebody better call the US soccer team before they beat anymore European teams! This could lead to WW3!