Okay, they aren't getting consolidated. But we are getting the ~40 billion Homeland Security Agency...and a massive reform of the others. I've got no complaints...
Bah...I wish I wasn't trying to catch all this and organize it in my head.
Basically, It's going to be the Department of Homeland Security, and former governer Ridge has a permanent and more powerful posistion as the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Defense (bah, Dan Rather is saying both Security and Defense, even they can't get their facts straight.) It's primary purpose is obviously to protect the homeland, protect the borders, fight against terrorism, prepare communities in the event of a terrorist attack, and to gather and share information. It will consolidate FEMA, the Coast Guard, the Border Patrol, the Secret Service, and several other related agences.
Look I am just making fun of the title,it does sound reminiscent of the Nazi Germany,I mean the Fatherland,I am just making a joke,while such jokes still can be made.The truth is drunk drivers killed more than 10 times the number of people in the US than terrorists.
<strong>Look I am just making fun of the title,it does sound reminiscent of the Nazi Germany,I mean the Fatherland,I am just making a joke,while such jokes still can be made.The truth is drunk drivers killed more than 10 times the number of people in the US than terrorists.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ok, so it was a joke. However, it was not really a joke to you as evidenced by this past you make. Don't worry, some day I am sure your fears will be realized. The question is, will it be because of GWB or someone else. I will guarantee that it will be someone else.
And Drunk Drivers are dangerous as well. They should enforce laws that are designed to keep those people off the road.
It's sort of a joke,but I see a consolidation of government powers that I think is scary.Thankfully it is a full cabinet postion,meaning that there will be congressional oversight.I wouldn't assume that the Bush government will respect our democratic system,originally Bush wanted the post not to be a cabinet position,so there would be no oversight.But of course all of this has been going on for a long time,it cuts across party lines-the ending Elian Gonzalez affair was a sad day for all Americans,when a legal dispute was settled at the barrel of a gun- I would like to point out that all of the appeals had not yet been exhausted at that point.Also,the COG project was originally formulated during the Carter administration.
The decision of Bush seems logical, the problem is that when you have many different services working independantly it does not work good.
Some who will argue that different independant services is good for democratia, others will argue that differences services will lead to competition between them and therefore a lack of cooperation.
The goal of a centralized minister is to improve the cooperation between the difference services. The problem is that it bring a new level of hierarchy , the more you add step in hierarchy the better you have a chance that a crucial information will not be communicated at the highest level : the level who decide.
.
In France for security : there is two corpses :
the policeman and the Gendarmes (which are military). The new reform took both corporations under the same minister in order to reinforce cooperation and diminish the rivaltry. In that case there isn' t a new level of hierarchy, the only difference with the precedent model is that there is only one minister in charge rather than 2.
As I understand it the problem was that discoveries made deep down in the agencies didn´t arrive at the top of them so actions could be taken. Much like something sub-concious doesn´t arrive to our concious level.
The cure is to make another "agency" to gather information from CIA and FBI? Isn´t that to cure the flaws of a bureaucracy by building another one on top of it instead of dealing with the initial problem?
Bush is not a Conservative at all. His response to everything is More Government...larger Government.
NoahJ it is never good to consolidate Authority. This is the foundation of a totalitarian Gov. One group accountable...one group to control...and into darkness....errr back on subject.
If I move **** from one corner to the other...does it cease to be **** ? No. Mueller and the rest of his pathetic cohorts will do no better under this new "Umbrella of Evil". It's a damn shame that all this is happening and not one person has been fired. I don't care how you shuffle them the problem is not the system but the people running it.
I'd rather see a total reform of the FBI/CIA with massive reorgs. New equiptment and technology. The should consolidtae those two organizations and call it the Federal Inteligence Agency (FIA).
<strong>I'd rather see a total reform of the FBI/CIA with massive reorgs. New equiptment and technology. The should consolidtae those two organizations and call it the Federal Inteligence Agency (FIA).</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>Bush is not a Conservative at all. His response to everything is More Government...larger Government.
NoahJ it is never good to consolidate Authority. This is the foundation of a totalitarian Gov. One group accountable...one group to control...and into darkness....errr back on subject.
If I move **** from one corner to the other...does it cease to be **** ? No. Mueller and the rest of his pathetic cohorts will do no better under this new "Umbrella of Evil". It's a damn shame that all this is happening and not one person has been fired. I don't care how you shuffle them the problem is not the system but the people running it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I am a Bush supporter (please put the flame thrower away for now?) but I almost have to agree. I think he may be spending to much. Though, I think he is going to veto the terror package that just passed the senate...and with good reason. Too much pork! Too bad that we STILL do not have a line item veto.
I heard they were going to call it the Knowledge Guard Bureau with a sub group, on the field, enforcement agency called the National Knowledge and Values Department
It wasn't until very late in drawing up the plans with the central bureau that someone noticed the ABBREVIATIONS <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> and decided that it might give the wrong impressions.
<strong>You people are not smart.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry. I bow to your Phd.ness. I am not worthy to question your superiour post that cuts through with intelligent reasoning and make the rest of us look like stupid sheep.
Noone else can make a five word reply and put everybody else in amazement.
<strong>You people are not smart.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Overwhelm us with your superiour intelligence O great one!
Or, better than that, STFU, go off some place, and kill yourself. After that we will build a monument to your supreme intelligence and then procede to blow it apart with C4 after putting graffiti all over it.
Comments
Basically, It's going to be the Department of Homeland Security, and former governer Ridge has a permanent and more powerful posistion as the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Defense (bah, Dan Rather is saying both Security and Defense, even they can't get their facts straight.) It's primary purpose is obviously to protect the homeland, protect the borders, fight against terrorism, prepare communities in the event of a terrorist attack, and to gather and share information. It will consolidate FEMA, the Coast Guard, the Border Patrol, the Secret Service, and several other related agences.
I hope I got most of it right this time...
<strong>Look I am just making fun of the title,it does sound reminiscent of the Nazi Germany,I mean the Fatherland,I am just making a joke,while such jokes still can be made.The truth is drunk drivers killed more than 10 times the number of people in the US than terrorists.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ok, so it was a joke. However, it was not really a joke to you as evidenced by this past you make. Don't worry, some day I am sure your fears will be realized. The question is, will it be because of GWB or someone else. I will guarantee that it will be someone else.
And Drunk Drivers are dangerous as well. They should enforce laws that are designed to keep those people off the road.
Some who will argue that different independant services is good for democratia, others will argue that differences services will lead to competition between them and therefore a lack of cooperation.
The goal of a centralized minister is to improve the cooperation between the difference services. The problem is that it bring a new level of hierarchy , the more you add step in hierarchy the better you have a chance that a crucial information will not be communicated at the highest level : the level who decide.
.
In France for security : there is two corpses :
the policeman and the Gendarmes (which are military). The new reform took both corporations under the same minister in order to reinforce cooperation and diminish the rivaltry. In that case there isn' t a new level of hierarchy, the only difference with the precedent model is that there is only one minister in charge rather than 2.
[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: powerdoc ]</p>
The cure is to make another "agency" to gather information from CIA and FBI? Isn´t that to cure the flaws of a bureaucracy by building another one on top of it instead of dealing with the initial problem?
I might have misunderstood something...
NoahJ it is never good to consolidate Authority. This is the foundation of a totalitarian Gov. One group accountable...one group to control...and into darkness....errr back on subject.
If I move **** from one corner to the other...does it cease to be **** ? No. Mueller and the rest of his pathetic cohorts will do no better under this new "Umbrella of Evil". It's a damn shame that all this is happening and not one person has been fired. I don't care how you shuffle them the problem is not the system but the people running it.
<strong>I'd rather see a total reform of the FBI/CIA with massive reorgs. New equiptment and technology. The should consolidtae those two organizations and call it the Federal Inteligence Agency (FIA).</strong><hr></blockquote>
How about call them D&D...Dumb and Dumber?
<strong>Bush is not a Conservative at all. His response to everything is More Government...larger Government.
NoahJ it is never good to consolidate Authority. This is the foundation of a totalitarian Gov. One group accountable...one group to control...and into darkness....errr back on subject.
If I move **** from one corner to the other...does it cease to be **** ? No. Mueller and the rest of his pathetic cohorts will do no better under this new "Umbrella of Evil". It's a damn shame that all this is happening and not one person has been fired. I don't care how you shuffle them the problem is not the system but the people running it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I am a Bush supporter (please put the flame thrower away for now?) but I almost have to agree. I think he may be spending to much. Though, I think he is going to veto the terror package that just passed the senate...and with good reason. Too much pork! Too bad that we STILL do not have a line item veto.
[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
.
I heard they were going to call it the Knowledge Guard Bureau with a sub group, on the field, enforcement agency called the National Knowledge and Values Department
It wasn't until very late in drawing up the plans with the central bureau that someone noticed the ABBREVIATIONS <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> and decided that it might give the wrong impressions.
.
.
.
[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
THAT has to be a joke.
But sometimes abbr. is very telling. Like MAD
imean what could be wrong with-
KGB
or NKVD?
<strong>You people are not smart.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry. I bow to your Phd.ness. I am not worthy to question your superiour post that cuts through with intelligent reasoning and make the rest of us look like stupid sheep.
Noone else can make a five word reply and put everybody else in amazement.
[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>
<strong>You people are not smart.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Overwhelm us with your superiour intelligence O great one!
Or, better than that, STFU, go off some place, and kill yourself. After that we will build a monument to your supreme intelligence and then procede to blow it apart with C4 after putting graffiti all over it.