GWB Announces New Homeland Security Plan

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Just starting now...watching it on NBC...I caught something bout consolidating the major agencies into one...sounds good so far.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 50
    spartspart Posts: 2,060member
    Okay, they aren't getting consolidated. But we are getting the ~40 billion Homeland Security Agency...and a massive reform of the others. I've got no complaints...
  • Reply 2 of 50
    spartspart Posts: 2,060member
    Bah...I wish I wasn't trying to catch all this and organize it in my head.



    Basically, It's going to be the Department of Homeland Security, and former governer Ridge has a permanent and more powerful posistion as the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Defense (bah, Dan Rather is saying both Security and Defense, even they can't get their facts straight.) It's primary purpose is obviously to protect the homeland, protect the borders, fight against terrorism, prepare communities in the event of a terrorist attack, and to gather and share information. It will consolidate FEMA, the Coast Guard, the Border Patrol, the Secret Service, and several other related agences.



    I hope I got most of it right this time...
  • Reply 3 of 50
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Now we're safe!



  • Reply 4 of 50
    rick1138rick1138 Posts: 938member
    Heil Bush and Herr Ridge!
  • Reply 5 of 50
    noahjnoahj Posts: 4,503member
    Why would you have any problem with this? Please dissect and show me the problems as you see them.
  • Reply 6 of 50
    rick1138rick1138 Posts: 938member
    Look I am just making fun of the title,it does sound reminiscent of the Nazi Germany,I mean the Fatherland,I am just making a joke,while such jokes still can be made.The truth is drunk drivers killed more than 10 times the number of people in the US than terrorists.
  • Reply 7 of 50
    noahjnoahj Posts: 4,503member
    [quote]Originally posted by Rick1138:

    <strong>Look I am just making fun of the title,it does sound reminiscent of the Nazi Germany,I mean the Fatherland,I am just making a joke,while such jokes still can be made.The truth is drunk drivers killed more than 10 times the number of people in the US than terrorists.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Ok, so it was a joke. However, it was not really a joke to you as evidenced by this past you make. Don't worry, some day I am sure your fears will be realized. The question is, will it be because of GWB or someone else. I will guarantee that it will be someone else.



    And Drunk Drivers are dangerous as well. They should enforce laws that are designed to keep those people off the road.
  • Reply 8 of 50
    rick1138rick1138 Posts: 938member
    It's sort of a joke,but I see a consolidation of government powers that I think is scary.Thankfully it is a full cabinet postion,meaning that there will be congressional oversight.I wouldn't assume that the Bush government will respect our democratic system,originally Bush wanted the post not to be a cabinet position,so there would be no oversight.But of course all of this has been going on for a long time,it cuts across party lines-the ending Elian Gonzalez affair was a sad day for all Americans,when a legal dispute was settled at the barrel of a gun- I would like to point out that all of the appeals had not yet been exhausted at that point.Also,the COG project was originally formulated during the Carter administration.
  • Reply 9 of 50
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    The decision of Bush seems logical, the problem is that when you have many different services working independantly it does not work good.



    Some who will argue that different independant services is good for democratia, others will argue that differences services will lead to competition between them and therefore a lack of cooperation.



    The goal of a centralized minister is to improve the cooperation between the difference services. The problem is that it bring a new level of hierarchy , the more you add step in hierarchy the better you have a chance that a crucial information will not be communicated at the highest level : the level who decide.



    .

    In France for security : there is two corpses :

    the policeman and the Gendarmes (which are military). The new reform took both corporations under the same minister in order to reinforce cooperation and diminish the rivaltry. In that case there isn' t a new level of hierarchy, the only difference with the precedent model is that there is only one minister in charge rather than 2.



    [ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: powerdoc ]</p>
  • Reply 10 of 50
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    As I understand it the problem was that discoveries made deep down in the agencies didn´t arrive at the top of them so actions could be taken. Much like something sub-concious doesn´t arrive to our concious level.



    The cure is to make another "agency" to gather information from CIA and FBI? Isn´t that to cure the flaws of a bureaucracy by building another one on top of it instead of dealing with the initial problem?



    I might have misunderstood something...
  • Reply 11 of 50
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,439member
    Bush is not a Conservative at all. His response to everything is More Government...larger Government.



    NoahJ it is never good to consolidate Authority. This is the foundation of a totalitarian Gov. One group accountable...one group to control...and into darkness....errr back on subject.



    If I move **** from one corner to the other...does it cease to be **** ? No. Mueller and the rest of his pathetic cohorts will do no better under this new "Umbrella of Evil". It's a damn shame that all this is happening and not one person has been fired. I don't care how you shuffle them the problem is not the system but the people running it.
  • Reply 12 of 50
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    I'd rather see a total reform of the FBI/CIA with massive reorgs. New equiptment and technology. The should consolidtae those two organizations and call it the Federal Inteligence Agency (FIA).
  • Reply 13 of 50
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,439member
    [quote]Originally posted by Outsider:

    <strong>I'd rather see a total reform of the FBI/CIA with massive reorgs. New equiptment and technology. The should consolidtae those two organizations and call it the Federal Inteligence Agency (FIA).</strong><hr></blockquote>





    How about call them D&D...Dumb and Dumber?
  • Reply 14 of 50
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,032member
    [quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

    <strong>Bush is not a Conservative at all. His response to everything is More Government...larger Government.



    NoahJ it is never good to consolidate Authority. This is the foundation of a totalitarian Gov. One group accountable...one group to control...and into darkness....errr back on subject.



    If I move **** from one corner to the other...does it cease to be **** ? No. Mueller and the rest of his pathetic cohorts will do no better under this new "Umbrella of Evil". It's a damn shame that all this is happening and not one person has been fired. I don't care how you shuffle them the problem is not the system but the people running it.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Well, I am a Bush supporter (please put the flame thrower away for now?) but I almost have to agree. I think he may be spending to much. Though, I think he is going to veto the terror package that just passed the senate...and with good reason. Too much pork! Too bad that we STILL do not have a line item veto.



    [ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
  • Reply 15 of 50
    pfflampfflam Posts: 5,053member
    .



    .

    I heard they were going to call it the Knowledge Guard Bureau with a sub group, on the field, enforcement agency called the National Knowledge and Values Department



    It wasn't until very late in drawing up the plans with the central bureau that someone noticed the ABBREVIATIONS <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> and decided that it might give the wrong impressions.

    .

    .

    .



    [ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
  • Reply 16 of 50
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />



    THAT has to be a joke.



    But sometimes abbr. is very telling. Like MAD
  • Reply 17 of 50
    pfflampfflam Posts: 5,053member
    What's the joke?



    imean what could be wrong with-

    KGB

    or NKVD?
  • Reply 18 of 50
    You people are not smart.
  • Reply 19 of 50
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    [quote]Originally posted by scott_h_phd:

    <strong>You people are not smart.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Sorry. I bow to your Phd.ness. I am not worthy to question your superiour post that cuts through with intelligent reasoning and make the rest of us look like stupid sheep.



    Noone else can make a five word reply and put everybody else in amazement.



    [ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>
  • Reply 20 of 50
    spartspart Posts: 2,060member
    [quote]Originally posted by scott_h_phd:

    <strong>You people are not smart.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Overwhelm us with your superiour intelligence O great one!



    Or, better than that, STFU, go off some place, and kill yourself. After that we will build a monument to your supreme intelligence and then procede to blow it apart with C4 after putting graffiti all over it.
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