I'm not so concerned about it. My iPad does get plenty of smudges, but you really can't see them while the screen is on. That surprised me.
The advantages of properly adding touch would so outweigh any small problems with smudges that it would be worth it.
As far as the hinge thing goes. I've got a design with curved rails that the computer would slide up and down on. Pull it towards you and it would slide down almost horizontally. Push it back, and it would slide upwards in a vertical position. It could be used anywhere between. counterbalancing would ensure it would move easily, and stay put. If really necessary, the curved rails could be mounted on a platform that would be swiveled up and down for further adjustment, and could be locked into place if required.
I like the sound of that!
Or, even mounted on a wall, say at a height that when deployed horizontally was stand-up (or sit-down) desk height...
Well I have had ATV since day one, we love it and use it almost daily and it has been a huge success for us. It is literally our entertainment hub for music at parties (saves all the equipment in the great room, just need amp and speakers). It is how we watch HD movies now (instead of going out to the movies in these hard times). Plus how we view all our pictures and home made movies.
We even take it on our annual vacation along with an AE as we use it to view pics and our own movies taken that day. Plus I take a TB drive with tons of movies on with us in case of rain or internet is lousy as is often the case. Now I added Boxee it takes on even more uses albeit it can't drive Boxee on a 62 inch HD TV sadly but it can on smaller screens.
What's not to love?
This year, at the grandkids soccer team parties (at the local pizza parlors) I plan to take my hockey puck Apple TV and an HDMI cable and stream home movies of game highlights from my iPad to the HDTV in the party room...
Something like:
Dish provides some tips for playing the critical position of Soccer Goalkeeper, and demonstrates "How it's done"
I think a 'touch' anything with OSX is unlikely and I can't see an iMac with IOS and I definitely cannot see dual OS machine. I think it is more likely that a new device (as in the pictures) featuring a larger screen (15"-17" perhaps) and IOS is a possibility. This, to me, would make more sense as an incremental step in ushering IOS in as a new consumer OS. Though I don't have the technical knowledge to figure out if this is plausible I can see an alteration to the OS in order to allow multiple windows to be open side by side (two or more apps at once). This would allow current ipad and iphone apps to run in native resolution without hogging the entire screen.
This makes a lot of sense-- an interim "Touch Mac" as a separate product, to provide a path to the future.
I can see Apple doing that and see how it goes... No one else can afford to do that!
You may well have hit the nail on the head there. It maybe a large iPad indeed and nothing to do with iMac and OS X changes (sadly). However, with all that extra space why not use a more powerful processor and then if that is there why not have OS X too? Tantalizing thoughts ....
It could be...
But Apple needs to find a way to bring multitouch to the desktop... sooner, rather than later.
It doesn't have to be either OS X or iOS. It could be a way if having both, letting you use keyboard functions and touch functions. Use whatever you want for the task at hand.
After all, we still have keyboard shortcuts, even though we've had a mouse for decades now.
We could even have a choice depending on the program we're running. Run a touch based program, and the choices are mostly touch based. Run a keyboard based one, and that applies. It could be modal. Touch the screen and a touch based UI takes over, until you click on the keyboard.
I'm just coming up with some very off the cuff ideas. I'm sure with more thought, this can be worked out satisfactorily.
Remember that a counterpoint to your argument was that the mouse and drop down menu system was terribly inefficient. It required you to remove your hand from the keyboard, and was supposed to be very bad. A lot of people who had invested time in character based programs said that it was much better memorizing the 500 to 600 two and three letter key combo's than it was to use a mouse, and GUI's were so much slower anyway.
Some people will always have to be dragged into new worlds.
There's a demo of running OLPC/OTPC eToys squeak on the iPad.
He has a modal solution to handle hover/mouseovers and does right-clicks by adding a command key to the status bar-- not elegant, but not rocket science either.
I don't know what you do for a living but I can't think of anything worse. The track pad is pretty good at allowing some kind of touch interface but to reach out across the desk and touch the screen all day... never. Can you imagine anybody working on a spreadsheet doing that? Or a desktop publishing app? I have worked in studios with touch interface audio mixing desks and it works great. But that's a very different environment. I can imagine fully touch keyboards and track pads, I can imagine small touch devices such as iPads and even larger. I can envision them mounted with keyboards and I can even see a 27" imac with a future iteration of IOS. But a touch screen 27" imac is ridiculous - unless it has some other kind of input device as well, of course. As far as laying the screen down - that would be an ergonomical killer, wouldn't it?
Yes, but... you are making assumptions based on what you know and are comfortable with...
For example, many people assume we have to have a "proper" keyboard (because we're used to one).
How can we find the home row on a virtual kb without those little nipples on the keys?
How can we hover over the home row, without pressing a key?
How can we gain speed if we don't have the sensation of pressing a key?
Just consider these points as a possibility:
-- you don't have to hover over the home row- just place your hands/palms on the screen
-- you don't need nipples to find the home row - the home row is wherever you place your hands
-- the virtual kb resizes itself to fit your hands
-- you don't type by pressing down and lifting up- rather by lifting up, touching, then letting the finger, naturally, come to rest on the home row
I would be willing to bet that someone with no typing training (to unlearn) could quickly outperform the best trained typist-- and none of that carpel-tunnel crap!
Yes, but... you are making assumptions based on what you know and are comfortable with...
For example, many people assume we have to have a "proper" keyboard (because we're used to one).
How can we find the home row on a virtual kb without those little nipples on the keys?
How can we hover over the home row, without pressing a key?
How can we gain speed if we don't have the sensation of pressing a key?
Just consider these points as a possibility:
-- you don't have to hover over the home row- just place your hands/palms on the screen
-- you don't need nipples to find the home row - the home row is wherever you place your hands
-- the virtual kb resizes itself to fit your hands
-- you don't type by pressing down and lifting up- rather by lifting up, touching, then letting the finger, naturally, come to rest on the home row
I would be willing to bet that someone with no typing training (to unlearn) could quickly outperform the best trained typist-- and none of that carpel-tunnel crap!
,
The future will bring virtual keyboards and I'm not counting out any software ideas. I can see how you could 'hover' by a key not being activated before you let go, for sure. I can also see a keyboard that would somehow slide itself as a semi-translucent image covering the bottom part of you monitor. As soon as you touch the keyboard the controls would be visible on the big screen, a little like the keyboard appears on an iPad. But the beauty of virtual keyboards is that they can adapt to each app.
People may prefer physical keyboards for typing - I am not sure if it is a matter of getting used to or if physical keyboards really are better, but I am sure that the keyboard and mouse combo will prove itself inadequate in many professional contexts over time.
Yes, but... you are making assumptions based on what you know and are comfortable with...
For example, many people assume we have to have a "proper" keyboard (because we're used to one).
How can we find the home row on a virtual kb without those little nipples on the keys?
How can we hover over the home row, without pressing a key?
How can we gain speed if we don't have the sensation of pressing a key?
Just consider these points as a possibility:
-- you don't have to hover over the home row- just place your hands/palms on the screen
-- you don't need nipples to find the home row - the home row is wherever you place your hands
-- the virtual kb resizes itself to fit your hands
-- you don't type by pressing down and lifting up- rather by lifting up, touching, then letting the finger, naturally, come to rest on the home row
I would be willing to bet that someone with no typing training (to unlearn) could quickly outperform the best trained typist-- and none of that carpel-tunnel crap!
,
"Dick gets it"
I've had the following bookmark in my BM-bar for ages now... before the iPad, when there was only speculation as to what "it" would be.
The following design is only a concept, and a bit before it's time, however... some of the the tech needed is in dev NOW and we'll see within 3 years time I believe, such as foldable OLED screens, etc.
I?m aware that any OS can be used with a touchscreen but having a UI that designed for fingers is different than one designed for a mouse pointer.
I wish you hadn't said that. I have happily been using nothing but a track pad to operate my Powerbook Ti and now my Macbook unibody and now all of a sudden you point out to me that the OS was not designed for fingers, so what I have been doing for nigh on a decade is all wrong. \
I've had the following bookmark in my BM-bar for ages now... before the iPad, when there was only speculation as to what "it" would be.
The following design is only a concept, and a bit before it's time, however... some of the the tech needed is in dev NOW and we'll see within 3 years time I believe, such as foldable OLED screens, etc.
Or, there is something here-- and we are missing it!
I was browsing through the forums, as I often do, early in the morning (in bed with an iPad, and an iMac, available on my nightstand).
A thought came into my mind that I'd better check the schedule for today's soccer games (3 grandkids)
Sure, I have all the schedules and practices entered into my calendar (merged with my daughter's calendar, published on MobileMe. shared among 7 Macs, 5 iPhones and 2 iPads).
Originally, it took several hours to copy the schedule info from the league web site, but once that is done, it is very handy!
I have alarms set for every practice and game-- so alerts get pushed to all our computers and iDevices.
I was using the iPad (with 4.2 beta multitasking) so I double tapped the home button. and brought up the calendar app.
The calendar listed the games and showed that there was some overlap -- I wouldn't be able to be at all the games for their full duration.
When I created the iCal entries I entered the opposing team, location, etc,
Now, I wanted to determine which games to attend based on the potential quality/importance of the contest.
So I:
1) noted the name of the opponent for the first game
2) double-tap, then tap switched back to the browser
3) tap to display the bookmarks
4) scroll tap to select the bookmark for the league home page
5) tapped the "girls" division link which brought up the girls division page
6) tapped the standings link for the appropriate age group which brought up the standings page for my granddaughter's team and their opponent
7) noting that the teams were fairly close in the standings, I decided to look at the schedule to see how' they had each performed against common opponents
8) tapping the back button brought me back to the girls division page
9) tap the link for schedule in the appropriate age group which brought the complete schedule for that age group within the girls division
10) I could scroll through the schedule (including box scores for games already played) gauge the importance of this game based on standings (as I recall from the standings - 2 pages back), and determine that this is a pretty important game -- one I would like to attend.
Whew! That was pretty tedious, wasn't it?
So, let's look at the other games.
You guessed it-- I need to go through the same Texas Two-step for each game.
It's a little easier on a Mac, because I can keep some pages open... but not really that much easier.
So, after 30 steps (3 teams) and say 5-10 minutes, I can decide which games I want to attend and determine my schedule.
That's just for the Saturday games...
I repeat the process to some degree for practices on Mon.Tue,Wed,Thu (Friday and Sunday are usually free). And my Daughter does the same thing.
Why?
Why can't I go to the calendar, select a game and see the current standings, schedule and box scores automatically-- with no extra effort futzing around back-and-forth with the browser.
We can embed music and videos from other sites into browser pages --.why can't we transclude the live, updated, standings and schedule right there in the calendar? *
* there may be calendar programs that can do this-- but that's not really the point.
Why am I doing it this way?
For me, the answer is:
That's the way I am used to doing it (and it is so much improved over how we did it before the web and computers).
But is it, really that much better-- I am still shuffling pages (albeit electronic ones) to get the information I need.
Sure, the information is at my fingertips-- but it takes a lot of time and finger taps/swipes (or keystrokes and mouse movement/clicks) to get what should already be there.
The Mac, iPad, web, Calendar app, Browser app are my minions -- I just haven't trained them very well to do my bidding
In this thread, we have been discussing whether a touch interface or a mouse/kb interface is better-- I'll call it battle of the Touch vs the Platonic UI.
Which is best for my task?
Is it Touch?
Is it Platonic?
... or is it neither?
Maybe there are more important changes afoot than just the UI.
Well, I have an early soccer game to attend, so I'm gonna hit the shower...
I don't know what you do for a living but I can't think of anything worse. The track pad is pretty good at allowing some kind of touch interface but to reach out across the desk and touch the screen all day... never. Can you imagine anybody working on a spreadsheet doing that? Or a desktop publishing app? I have worked in studios with touch interface audio mixing desks and it works great. But that's a very different environment. I can imagine fully touch keyboards and track pads, I can imagine small touch devices such as iPads and even larger. I can envision them mounted with keyboards and I can even see a 27" imac with a future iteration of IOS. But a touch screen 27" imac is ridiculous - unless it has some other kind of input device as well, of course. As far as laying the screen down - that would be an ergonomical killer, wouldn't it?
What I get from your points is that Touch is great for somethings and not so much for others..
I agree!
But, I do think that within the next 5 years, every Apple display will be touch enabled! They need touch displays for many things and economies of scale should make it less expensive to go "all touch".
That's not to say that the keyboard and mouse (or touch pad or even graphic tablets) are going away.
What it does mean is that any Computer/Display or iDevice you buy from Apple, will be usable with touch! Other UI devices will be sold as accessories-- commonly used accessories.
You can buy a Mouse or a KB for $70, so it;s not a big ticket decision -- most would just buy them.
The other part of this 5-year evolution is to change the OS and the apps to be "Touchable". The OS can do a lot to help, but the apps need to be rethought,
Like you, if I am doing WP or SS, I wiil probably use the mouse/kb over Touch.
But, it sure would be productive if I could tilt down the display to manipulate photos, or draw/paint something.
I gotta' hit the shower... but Ia' want to say that this is one of the best discussions-- well reasoned, thought-provoking, and very little FUD and name-calling...
BTW, Sol isn't anti-touch... He's just going through the process of thinking it through-- attempting to justify each inncremental step. I think he understands what's coming and is fully on board with it... I'd call him a New Fogey!
I wish you hadn't said that. I have happily been using nothing but a track pad to operate my Powerbook Ti and now my Macbook unibody and now all of a sudden you point out to me that the OS was not designed for fingers, so what I have been doing for nigh on a decade is all wrong. \
Personally I do not like touch screen because you see smudges and fingerprints on the screen which I hate.The new i macs are good the way they are now. Leave it alone.The mouse is a good design and a easy feature to use with the new i macs.
I?d much rather have the glass multitouch trackpad visually output as needed. Certain types of apps would be greatly benefited by this, like the calculator. As it stands now I often will just grab my iPhone because typing on the touch screen is better than using a mouse or keyboard for inputting on a desktop OS calculator.
I move my hand over the numeric keypad portion of my keyboard. It's better than having to grab a second device just to use a calculator.
I agree that having a large display capable trackpad would be an interesting addition.
I move my hand over the numeric keypad portion of my keyboard. It's better than having to grab a second device just to use a calculator.
I agree that having a large display capable trackpad would be an interesting addition.
I?ve been using notebooks for over a decade now so I haven?t had a numeric keyboard except for the one using the function toggle key built into the main keyboard area, which I never used because it was so janky. I assume that type of numeric keyboard was never popular as Apple removed that from their keyboards a few years back. Do modern non-Mac notebooks have the inlaid number pad in the main keyboard still?
I learned to play piano at a young age. I learned to type early in high school. Years later I learned how to keypunch and a few years after that, to run various typesetting machines. Long hours at keyboards and workstations taught me a lot about proper ergonomics for typing/playing/keyboarding.
It seems to me that a touch screen iMac would put your hands and forearms in a very fatiguing position. If you look at the one diagram that shows the imaginary iMac sliding from a near-vertical position to an almost horizontal position, either the touch surface will be rather high up on your desk, or the angle will be steep enough that one will have to punch fingers into a virtual keyboard rather than using the fingertips. Both of these will put more stress on the fingers, hands, wrists, elbows and shoulders.
I think the large touch screen is a great idea but for this point and a couple of others. If I have a large screen, I don't necessarily want a virtual keyboard intruding into it, even if the keyboard appears and disappears. I want the screen's real estate reserved for the visuals. And, as another commenter said, there is definitely the greasy fingerprint factor to contend with.
Comments
Maybe not. I've designed hinges that maintain their "feel". It's not that hard to do.
Kind of a Zener-spring, Eh! What do you use torsion bars?
.
I'm not so concerned about it. My iPad does get plenty of smudges, but you really can't see them while the screen is on. That surprised me.
The advantages of properly adding touch would so outweigh any small problems with smudges that it would be worth it.
As far as the hinge thing goes. I've got a design with curved rails that the computer would slide up and down on. Pull it towards you and it would slide down almost horizontally. Push it back, and it would slide upwards in a vertical position. It could be used anywhere between. counterbalancing would ensure it would move easily, and stay put. If really necessary, the curved rails could be mounted on a platform that would be swiveled up and down for further adjustment, and could be locked into place if required.
I like the sound of that!
Or, even mounted on a wall, say at a height that when deployed horizontally was stand-up (or sit-down) desk height...
Hmm.. the Escritoire of the 21st century!
.
I sometimes find myself reaching for my screen to touch something, and then belatedly remember I'm using my Mac Pro rather than my iPad.
Yeah! Then, embarrassed, blushing, you look around to see if anyone saw you do it!
.
I see virtual slide guitars and synth keyboards ... mmmmm
Can you envision a 27" BeBot?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFG7-Q0WI7Q
.
Well I have had ATV since day one, we love it and use it almost daily and it has been a huge success for us. It is literally our entertainment hub for music at parties (saves all the equipment in the great room, just need amp and speakers). It is how we watch HD movies now (instead of going out to the movies in these hard times). Plus how we view all our pictures and home made movies.
We even take it on our annual vacation along with an AE as we use it to view pics and our own movies taken that day. Plus I take a TB drive with tons of movies on with us in case of rain or internet is lousy as is often the case. Now I added Boxee it takes on even more uses albeit it can't drive Boxee on a 62 inch HD TV sadly but it can on smaller screens.
What's not to love?
This year, at the grandkids soccer team parties (at the local pizza parlors) I plan to take my hockey puck Apple TV and an HDMI cable and stream home movies of game highlights from my iPad to the HDTV in the party room...
Something like:
Dish provides some tips for playing the critical position of Soccer Goalkeeper, and demonstrates "How it's done"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOtZ0fSfQPo
and:
Braden does some fancy footwork to get around two deep defenders.
Kyler charges the net, distracting the goalkeeper for a fraction of a second...
Ah, too late... Result: Goal Red Bulls!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzAft7b7z4I
.
I think a 'touch' anything with OSX is unlikely and I can't see an iMac with IOS and I definitely cannot see dual OS machine. I think it is more likely that a new device (as in the pictures) featuring a larger screen (15"-17" perhaps) and IOS is a possibility. This, to me, would make more sense as an incremental step in ushering IOS in as a new consumer OS. Though I don't have the technical knowledge to figure out if this is plausible I can see an alteration to the OS in order to allow multiple windows to be open side by side (two or more apps at once). This would allow current ipad and iphone apps to run in native resolution without hogging the entire screen.
This makes a lot of sense-- an interim "Touch Mac" as a separate product, to provide a path to the future.
I can see Apple doing that and see how it goes... No one else can afford to do that!
.
You may well have hit the nail on the head there. It maybe a large iPad indeed and nothing to do with iMac and OS X changes (sadly). However, with all that extra space why not use a more powerful processor and then if that is there why not have OS X too? Tantalizing thoughts ....
It could be...
But Apple needs to find a way to bring multitouch to the desktop... sooner, rather than later.
.
It doesn't have to be either OS X or iOS. It could be a way if having both, letting you use keyboard functions and touch functions. Use whatever you want for the task at hand.
After all, we still have keyboard shortcuts, even though we've had a mouse for decades now.
We could even have a choice depending on the program we're running. Run a touch based program, and the choices are mostly touch based. Run a keyboard based one, and that applies. It could be modal. Touch the screen and a touch based UI takes over, until you click on the keyboard.
I'm just coming up with some very off the cuff ideas. I'm sure with more thought, this can be worked out satisfactorily.
Remember that a counterpoint to your argument was that the mouse and drop down menu system was terribly inefficient. It required you to remove your hand from the keyboard, and was supposed to be very bad. A lot of people who had invested time in character based programs said that it was much better memorizing the 500 to 600 two and three letter key combo's than it was to use a mouse, and GUI's were so much slower anyway.
Some people will always have to be dragged into new worlds.
There's a demo of running OLPC/OTPC eToys squeak on the iPad.
http://croquetweak.blogspot.com/2010...s-on-ipad.html
He has a modal solution to handle hover/mouseovers and does right-clicks by adding a command key to the status bar-- not elegant, but not rocket science either.
Yeah, yeah... it's gonna' happen!
.
I don't know what you do for a living but I can't think of anything worse. The track pad is pretty good at allowing some kind of touch interface but to reach out across the desk and touch the screen all day... never. Can you imagine anybody working on a spreadsheet doing that? Or a desktop publishing app? I have worked in studios with touch interface audio mixing desks and it works great. But that's a very different environment. I can imagine fully touch keyboards and track pads, I can imagine small touch devices such as iPads and even larger. I can envision them mounted with keyboards and I can even see a 27" imac with a future iteration of IOS. But a touch screen 27" imac is ridiculous - unless it has some other kind of input device as well, of course. As far as laying the screen down - that would be an ergonomical killer, wouldn't it?
Yes, but... you are making assumptions based on what you know and are comfortable with...
For example, many people assume we have to have a "proper" keyboard (because we're used to one).
How can we find the home row on a virtual kb without those little nipples on the keys?
How can we hover over the home row, without pressing a key?
How can we gain speed if we don't have the sensation of pressing a key?
Just consider these points as a possibility:
-- you don't have to hover over the home row- just place your hands/palms on the screen
-- you don't need nipples to find the home row - the home row is wherever you place your hands
-- the virtual kb resizes itself to fit your hands
-- you don't type by pressing down and lifting up- rather by lifting up, touching, then letting the finger, naturally, come to rest on the home row
I would be willing to bet that someone with no typing training (to unlearn) could quickly outperform the best trained typist-- and none of that carpel-tunnel crap!
,
Yes, but... you are making assumptions based on what you know and are comfortable with...
For example, many people assume we have to have a "proper" keyboard (because we're used to one).
How can we find the home row on a virtual kb without those little nipples on the keys?
How can we hover over the home row, without pressing a key?
How can we gain speed if we don't have the sensation of pressing a key?
Just consider these points as a possibility:
-- you don't have to hover over the home row- just place your hands/palms on the screen
-- you don't need nipples to find the home row - the home row is wherever you place your hands
-- the virtual kb resizes itself to fit your hands
-- you don't type by pressing down and lifting up- rather by lifting up, touching, then letting the finger, naturally, come to rest on the home row
I would be willing to bet that someone with no typing training (to unlearn) could quickly outperform the best trained typist-- and none of that carpel-tunnel crap!
,
The future will bring virtual keyboards and I'm not counting out any software ideas. I can see how you could 'hover' by a key not being activated before you let go, for sure. I can also see a keyboard that would somehow slide itself as a semi-translucent image covering the bottom part of you monitor. As soon as you touch the keyboard the controls would be visible on the big screen, a little like the keyboard appears on an iPad. But the beauty of virtual keyboards is that they can adapt to each app.
People may prefer physical keyboards for typing - I am not sure if it is a matter of getting used to or if physical keyboards really are better, but I am sure that the keyboard and mouse combo will prove itself inadequate in many professional contexts over time.
Yes, but... you are making assumptions based on what you know and are comfortable with...
For example, many people assume we have to have a "proper" keyboard (because we're used to one).
How can we find the home row on a virtual kb without those little nipples on the keys?
How can we hover over the home row, without pressing a key?
How can we gain speed if we don't have the sensation of pressing a key?
Just consider these points as a possibility:
-- you don't have to hover over the home row- just place your hands/palms on the screen
-- you don't need nipples to find the home row - the home row is wherever you place your hands
-- the virtual kb resizes itself to fit your hands
-- you don't type by pressing down and lifting up- rather by lifting up, touching, then letting the finger, naturally, come to rest on the home row
I would be willing to bet that someone with no typing training (to unlearn) could quickly outperform the best trained typist-- and none of that carpel-tunnel crap!
,
"Dick gets it"
I've had the following bookmark in my BM-bar for ages now... before the iPad, when there was only speculation as to what "it" would be.
The following design is only a concept, and a bit before it's time, however... some of the the tech needed is in dev NOW and we'll see within 3 years time I believe, such as foldable OLED screens, etc.
Take a look.... MacBook Touch Beta 20
I?m aware that any OS can be used with a touchscreen but having a UI that designed for fingers is different than one designed for a mouse pointer.
I wish you hadn't said that. I have happily been using nothing but a track pad to operate my Powerbook Ti and now my Macbook unibody and now all of a sudden you point out to me that the OS was not designed for fingers, so what I have been doing for nigh on a decade is all wrong.
"Dick gets it"
I've had the following bookmark in my BM-bar for ages now... before the iPad, when there was only speculation as to what "it" would be.
The following design is only a concept, and a bit before it's time, however... some of the the tech needed is in dev NOW and we'll see within 3 years time I believe, such as foldable OLED screens, etc.
Take a look.... MacBook Touch Beta 20
I've been to that site before-- it is beautiful... actually breathtaking in its simple freshness.
Just added it to my BM bar.
.
Something's messing here!
Or, there is something here-- and we are missing it!
I was browsing through the forums, as I often do, early in the morning (in bed with an iPad, and an iMac, available on my nightstand).
A thought came into my mind that I'd better check the schedule for today's soccer games (3 grandkids)
Sure, I have all the schedules and practices entered into my calendar (merged with my daughter's calendar, published on MobileMe. shared among 7 Macs, 5 iPhones and 2 iPads).
Originally, it took several hours to copy the schedule info from the league web site, but once that is done, it is very handy!
I have alarms set for every practice and game-- so alerts get pushed to all our computers and iDevices.
I was using the iPad (with 4.2 beta multitasking) so I double tapped the home button. and brought up the calendar app.
The calendar listed the games and showed that there was some overlap -- I wouldn't be able to be at all the games for their full duration.
When I created the iCal entries I entered the opposing team, location, etc,
Now, I wanted to determine which games to attend based on the potential quality/importance of the contest.
So I:
1) noted the name of the opponent for the first game
2) double-tap, then tap switched back to the browser
3) tap to display the bookmarks
4) scroll tap to select the bookmark for the league home page
5) tapped the "girls" division link which brought up the girls division page
6) tapped the standings link for the appropriate age group which brought up the standings page for my granddaughter's team and their opponent
7) noting that the teams were fairly close in the standings, I decided to look at the schedule to see how' they had each performed against common opponents
8) tapping the back button brought me back to the girls division page
9) tap the link for schedule in the appropriate age group which brought the complete schedule for that age group within the girls division
10) I could scroll through the schedule (including box scores for games already played) gauge the importance of this game based on standings (as I recall from the standings - 2 pages back), and determine that this is a pretty important game -- one I would like to attend.
Whew! That was pretty tedious, wasn't it?
So, let's look at the other games.
You guessed it-- I need to go through the same Texas Two-step for each game.
It's a little easier on a Mac, because I can keep some pages open... but not really that much easier.
So, after 30 steps (3 teams) and say 5-10 minutes, I can decide which games I want to attend and determine my schedule.
That's just for the Saturday games...
I repeat the process to some degree for practices on Mon.Tue,Wed,Thu (Friday and Sunday are usually free). And my Daughter does the same thing.
Why?
Why can't I go to the calendar, select a game and see the current standings, schedule and box scores automatically-- with no extra effort futzing around back-and-forth with the browser.
We can embed music and videos from other sites into browser pages --.why can't we transclude the live, updated, standings and schedule right there in the calendar? *
* there may be calendar programs that can do this-- but that's not really the point.
Why am I doing it this way?
For me, the answer is:
That's the way I am used to doing it (and it is so much improved over how we did it before the web and computers).
But is it, really that much better-- I am still shuffling pages (albeit electronic ones) to get the information I need.
Sure, the information is at my fingertips-- but it takes a lot of time and finger taps/swipes (or keystrokes and mouse movement/clicks) to get what should already be there.
The Mac, iPad, web, Calendar app, Browser app are my minions -- I just haven't trained them very well to do my bidding
In this thread, we have been discussing whether a touch interface or a mouse/kb interface is better-- I'll call it battle of the Touch vs the Platonic UI.
Which is best for my task?
Is it Touch?
Is it Platonic?
... or is it neither?
Maybe there are more important changes afoot than just the UI.
Well, I have an early soccer game to attend, so I'm gonna hit the shower...
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I don't know what you do for a living but I can't think of anything worse. The track pad is pretty good at allowing some kind of touch interface but to reach out across the desk and touch the screen all day... never. Can you imagine anybody working on a spreadsheet doing that? Or a desktop publishing app? I have worked in studios with touch interface audio mixing desks and it works great. But that's a very different environment. I can imagine fully touch keyboards and track pads, I can imagine small touch devices such as iPads and even larger. I can envision them mounted with keyboards and I can even see a 27" imac with a future iteration of IOS. But a touch screen 27" imac is ridiculous - unless it has some other kind of input device as well, of course. As far as laying the screen down - that would be an ergonomical killer, wouldn't it?
What I get from your points is that Touch is great for somethings and not so much for others..
I agree!
But, I do think that within the next 5 years, every Apple display will be touch enabled! They need touch displays for many things and economies of scale should make it less expensive to go "all touch".
That's not to say that the keyboard and mouse (or touch pad or even graphic tablets) are going away.
What it does mean is that any Computer/Display or iDevice you buy from Apple, will be usable with touch! Other UI devices will be sold as accessories-- commonly used accessories.
You can buy a Mouse or a KB for $70, so it;s not a big ticket decision -- most would just buy them.
The other part of this 5-year evolution is to change the OS and the apps to be "Touchable". The OS can do a lot to help, but the apps need to be rethought,
Like you, if I am doing WP or SS, I wiil probably use the mouse/kb over Touch.
But, it sure would be productive if I could tilt down the display to manipulate photos, or draw/paint something.
I gotta' hit the shower... but Ia' want to say that this is one of the best discussions-- well reasoned, thought-provoking, and very little FUD and name-calling...
BTW, Sol isn't anti-touch... He's just going through the process of thinking it through-- attempting to justify each inncremental step. I think he understands what's coming and is fully on board with it... I'd call him a New Fogey!
... and that ain't a bad thing to be!
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I wish you hadn't said that. I have happily been using nothing but a track pad to operate my Powerbook Ti and now my Macbook unibody and now all of a sudden you point out to me that the OS was not designed for fingers, so what I have been doing for nigh on a decade is all wrong.
I don?t know if your post is a joke or not.
I?d much rather have the glass multitouch trackpad visually output as needed. Certain types of apps would be greatly benefited by this, like the calculator. As it stands now I often will just grab my iPhone because typing on the touch screen is better than using a mouse or keyboard for inputting on a desktop OS calculator.
I move my hand over the numeric keypad portion of my keyboard. It's better than having to grab a second device just to use a calculator.
I agree that having a large display capable trackpad would be an interesting addition.
I move my hand over the numeric keypad portion of my keyboard. It's better than having to grab a second device just to use a calculator.
I agree that having a large display capable trackpad would be an interesting addition.
I?ve been using notebooks for over a decade now so I haven?t had a numeric keyboard except for the one using the function toggle key built into the main keyboard area, which I never used because it was so janky. I assume that type of numeric keyboard was never popular as Apple removed that from their keyboards a few years back. Do modern non-Mac notebooks have the inlaid number pad in the main keyboard still?
It seems to me that a touch screen iMac would put your hands and forearms in a very fatiguing position. If you look at the one diagram that shows the imaginary iMac sliding from a near-vertical position to an almost horizontal position, either the touch surface will be rather high up on your desk, or the angle will be steep enough that one will have to punch fingers into a virtual keyboard rather than using the fingertips. Both of these will put more stress on the fingers, hands, wrists, elbows and shoulders.
I think the large touch screen is a great idea but for this point and a couple of others. If I have a large screen, I don't necessarily want a virtual keyboard intruding into it, even if the keyboard appears and disappears. I want the screen's real estate reserved for the visuals. And, as another commenter said, there is definitely the greasy fingerprint factor to contend with.